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Arazel Chainfire
Fury Lords
Apex United
2
    |
Posted - 2011.09.25 21:58:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ok, instead of trolling, I'll give some numbers. To note, I have flown and FC'd incursions, and ran just about every type of WH.
Incursions:
lowskilled, or non-skeet fleet. You will be pumping out about 50mil/hour not counting the time it takes to get a fleet/move to the next incursion. Getting a fleet usually takes 30 min to an hour, though of course it can vary (may have gone down a bit since I was last running em back in june).
Skeet fleets. You will be pumping out 100mil an hour on the low end, possibly bumping that all the way up to 180-200mil an hour. Typical sites last between 3 and 5 minutes. Note, I don't bother trying to count LP in my figures, those were straight up isk in the pocket figures. You will only get into these fleets by flying regularly with a group of people, flying pimp gunships (note, for incursions, missiles suck for anything other then HM sniper tengu's in assaults/HQ's), or being a damn good logi pilot.
General notes - don't expect to do much with multi-boxing. This is one of the big reasons why I stopped flying them - everyone wants in on it and it seems that everyone has a predjudice against people multi-boxing. If you have just 1 acct, incursions are great. If you have more, they are great for that one acct that can actually fly in it, but you are probably going to be looking to get better isk off of other activities when you divide it out by accts.
Wormholes:
Average DPS per WH class, against battleship targets:
C2 - 500
C3 - 800
C4 - 1400
C5 - 2000
Average Isk/combat site (not counting capital escalation). You can about double the amount of isk and time it takes when looking at radar/mag sites.
C2 - 25mil
C3 - 50mil
C4 - 100mil
C5 - 250mil
Do note, these figures are an average, it will vary some per site, and this is the total value per site (not total value per character, like incursions).
What does this all mean? If you are solo, you can match a lowend skeet fleet by soloing 4 C2 sites/hour, 2 C3 sites per hour or 1 C4 site per hour. Of course, then you have to consider whether or not you actually can solo one. To give you my numbers from it, I'll use the "tengu" - assume about 500dps or so (the max that you can get from a tengu without pimping in modules, implants, or ammo). For myself, I've used tengu's, slepnirs, faction battleships, etc, but everyone understands tengu's.
C2 WH: about 10 min/site with 1 tengu. usually takes about 5 min to salvage. This puts you firmly at the 100mil/hour mark - for as long as the sites last. I usually ran them with 2 tengu's and a salvager, which leads to about 5min/site and about 5 min to salvage, which allowed us about 12 sites per hour, or about 300mil total per hour split 3 ways. The problem? The most heavily populated (combat site wise) C2 I've come across had about 20 sites... which took less than 2 hours to clear out. Most usually have only 10 sites or so, meaning that if you are doing a solid day of smashing C2's, you are looking at having something with a C2 static, and opening/flattening/closing each C2 at the rate of about 1 every hour. Which is a PITA.
C3 WH: These I didn't try doing solo, usually took about 10min/site with 2 tengu's. Again, about 5 min to salvage. Which once again puts us at around 300mil/hour split 3 ways. The big difference here is that since sites take longer, it takes longer to flatten a C3, meaning that if you are hammering them all day you have to deal with the whole open/flatten/close deal less often, which means less time taken away from running sites.
C4 WH: About 20min/site with 2 tengu equivelent, 10 with 4 tengu equivalent (here though you can effectively use battleships, meaning that 4 tengu equivalent can actually be 2 battleships with 1 logi supporting). Sites take about 5 min to salvage still. So once again, you are looking at around 300mil/hour split 3 ways with the 2 tengu equivalent (here, because I can get battleships in, I'm averaging about 500mil/hour split 4 ways).
C5 WH: took about 1 hour/site with 4 tengu equivelent, with about 10 min salvaging. These sites are a real PITA with such low numbers though, and were cut down to about 20min with 10 tengu equivalent. (still 10min salvaging). So this time lets go with the 10 tengu equivalent - you are making about 750mil/hour split 10 ways, which is 75mil/hour. Which means that if C5's are going to be more profitable than smaller sites, you had best be upgrading those tengu's, and battleships are increadiably more effective in C5's than lower class WH's. Note, if you have decent logi's, you only really need 2 basilisks/guardians, and then a minimum of 1500dps to manage these sites, meaning that you could run them with 2 logi's and 2 1kdps battleships. Here though the real isk maker is having capital ship escalations, which pump these sites up solidly into the 1.5bil isk/site range with full capital escalation.
Of course, there is a downside to all this. I usually spend about half my time running logistics of some sort (refueling POS's, selling isk, collapsing WH's, etc) in the wormholes. So in the end, assuming that you are pimping equally in the incursion and in the WH, isk comes out slightly in favor of the WH if you are just counting time running sites for both. Of course, if you pimp more for incursions than you do for WH's, thats a completely different story though...
-Arazel |
Maikhanh
Deep Space Expedition.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 11:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
Arazel Chainfire wrote:Ok, instead of trolling, I'll give some numbers. To note, I have flown and FC'd incursions, and ran just about every type of WH.
-Arazel
this guy gets everything right, 100m/h isnt hard to achieve in hisec incursion.
definitely need a nerf.
and btw, are you serious that 1 C5 site can net about 1.5b, that sounds incredibly insane |
Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
65
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 11:43:00 -
[63] - Quote
Maikhanh wrote:Arazel Chainfire wrote:Ok, instead of trolling, I'll give some numbers. To note, I have flown and FC'd incursions, and ran just about every type of WH.
-Arazel this guy gets everything right, 100m/h isnt hard to achieve in hisec incursion. definitely need a nerf. and btw, are you serious that 1 C5 site can net about 1.5b, that sounds incredibly insane
1.5bil is about right for capital escalations, yeah.
When you consider this is the unsplit payout and requires most of the pilots to be in capital class ships, and even then, remains pretty brutal and has to be done in nullsec with no local, it doesn't seem out of the normal risk:reward curve. Not to mention you need to occupy "nullsec" space and keep all those assets at risk.
Netting 1.5bil (10.5mil payout x 10) from an Incursion site that takes 5 minutes to run in highsec? That's where your risk:reward is ******. |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians
Blazing Angels Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 13:46:00 -
[64] - Quote
Lady Go Diveher wrote:Maikhanh wrote:Arazel Chainfire wrote:Ok, instead of trolling, I'll give some numbers. To note, I have flown and FC'd incursions, and ran just about every type of WH.
-Arazel this guy gets everything right, 100m/h isnt hard to achieve in hisec incursion. definitely need a nerf. and btw, are you serious that 1 C5 site can net about 1.5b, that sounds incredibly insane 1.5bil is about right for capital escalations, yeah. When you consider this is the unsplit payout and requires most of the pilots to be in capital class ships, and even then, remains pretty brutal and has to be done in nullsec with no local, it doesn't seem out of the normal risk:reward curve. Not to mention you need to occupy "nullsec" space and keep all those assets at risk. Netting 1.5bil (10.5mil payout x 10) from an Incursion site that takes 5 minutes to run in highsec? That's where your risk:reward is ******.
You mean 10.5 * 10 = 1.05 b ... right? ;) but even so I think it's supposed to say 100 * 10.5 million isk = 1.05 billion isk. So 1 hour of incursions at 100 million isk an hour...
The escalations in our C6 only needs 3 (2) capital pilots at max really to get the escalations. The damage dealers are sub-capital.
And yes I can confirm that it's around 1.5 b isk per site. |
Arazel Chainfire
Fury Lords
Apex United
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 10:21:00 -
[65] - Quote
Ammzi wrote:
The escalations in our C6 only needs 3 (2) capital pilots at max really to get the escalations. The damage dealers are sub-capital.
And yes I can confirm that it's around 1.5 b isk per site.
Why do you do subcaps for damage dealers? Just get a good loki or two and then toss on as many dreads as you have pilots for (and of course either a triage carrier or a few logi's to keep said loki's alive). 6kdps per dread that can actually effectively be applied is awsome 
-Arazel |
Maikhanh
Deep Space Expedition.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 10:29:00 -
[66] - Quote
Arazel Chainfire wrote:Ammzi wrote:
The escalations in our C6 only needs 3 (2) capital pilots at max really to get the escalations. The damage dealers are sub-capital.
And yes I can confirm that it's around 1.5 b isk per site.
Why do you do subcaps for damage dealers? Just get a good loki or two and then toss on as many dreads as you have pilots for (and of course either a triage carrier or a few logi's to keep said loki's alive). 6kdps per dread that can actually effectively be applied is awsome -Arazel
does loki actually work, we tried out on sisi, rapier with 40km web range even doesnt seem enough, loki with domination web is only 37km.
|
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
74
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 11:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
Arazel Chainfire wrote:Wormhole number discussion including salvage as part of income.
-Arazel
Counting salvage for WHs is akin to counting LP for incursions. Salvage is random.
For C4, I would say about 60mil per site in tags (anomalies, ignore Integrated Terminus), 4 per hour with 2 properly fit tengus, thus netting 120 mil/hr.
Solo farming Frontier Barracks/Command Post used to be possible and thus net about 100 mil/hr but alas that day is gone.
Point being, the risks involved to get up to the 100mi/hr rate in wh space means C4 whs. In high sec...it means get into a decent Incursion farming fleet.
Sorry guys but your little Incursions pot of gold is just a bit over the top. It needs its potential to be cut in half. |
Mart Allini
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 12:26:00 -
[68] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Arazel Chainfire wrote:Wormhole number discussion including salvage as part of income.
-Arazel Counting salvage for WHs is akin to counting LP for incursions. Salvage is random. For C4, I would say about 60mil per site in tags (anomalies, ignore Integrated Terminus), 4 per hour with 2 properly fit tengus, thus netting 120 mil/hr. Solo farming Frontier Barracks/Command Post used to be possible and thus net about 100 mil/hr but alas that day is gone. Point being, the risks involved to get up to the 100mi/hr rate in wh space means C4 whs. In high sec...it means get into a decent Incursion farming fleet. Sorry guys but your little Incursions pot of gold is just a bit over the top. It needs its potential to be cut in half.
Disclaimer: I'm not arguing for or against incursion income values.
However, I think including some approximation of expected salvage value is perfectly reasonable as a measure of income. While your point that salvage is random is true, it does follow a probability distribution(at least I assume it does) so over time will trend towards a stable value.
|
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
74
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 18:21:00 -
[69] - Quote
Mart Allini wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm not arguing for or against incursion income values.
However, I think including some approximation of expected salvage value is perfectly reasonable as a measure of income. While your point that salvage is random is true, it does follow a probability distribution(at least I assume it does) so over time will trend towards a stable value.
I agree with you, but until someone decides to do hard research on it, I'd say there is no reliable data open to the public on it and thus going based on tag income is the most accurate.
When I used to farm C4 sites (before the Sleeper Neut fix), I wouldn't even bother to salvage. I would just go to the next site and keep shooting. This gave me approximately 90-100mil/hr (roughly 35-40 minutes per site). |
Tigers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 19:18:00 -
[70] - Quote
BS Jinn Rho, U MAD BRO?
I ran incursions this afternoon and I got 90mil isk after 2hrs. with the crowded local and people dropping fleet ****/smoke breaks.
At 9.7 to 10.5mil a site and if the sites take anywhere from 4 to 14mins. it all varies man. So dont act like what you say is absolute truth. There are way to many variables. These variables have to be accounted for when you think of isk/hr. Thats the topic on hand man. |
|
Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
73
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 19:29:00 -
[71] - Quote
From the predator side of the equation, we find it much, much easier to get kills in high sec missions or WHs as compared to Incursions or Live Events. So, at least from the "unintended, consensual PVP" threat, Incursions are far safer than Lv 4s in High Sec. Much of that is due to the organization skills of BTL Pub & TDF and I tip my hat to them for that.
Still, it's not hard to see that the relative safety and grief-free opportunities for absurd high sec ISKies have taken a toll on the mission runner population. Nerf them a little bit, or find a way to explode moar Incursion shups plox. 
Recruiting is OPEN
Please join our public channel The Ninja Dojo for more info |
Arazel Chainfire
Fury Lords
Apex United
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 19:30:00 -
[72] - Quote
You know... I had typed up a nice long forum post addressing a few different subjects... but then the forums ate it... again. Since it seems to be doing this to something like half of all posts I attempt to make, I'm just going to ignore it and give a few brief answers.
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Counting salvage for WHs is akin to counting LP for incursions. Salvage is random.
For C4, I would say about 60mil per site in tags (anomalies, ignore Integrated Terminus), 4 per hour with 2 properly fit tengus, thus netting 120 mil/hr.
Solo farming Frontier Barracks/Command Post used to be possible and thus net about 100 mil/hr but alas that day is gone.
Point being, the risks involved to get up to the 100mi/hr rate in wh space means C4 whs. In high sec...it means get into a decent Incursion farming fleet.
Sorry guys but your little Incursions pot of gold is just a bit over the top. It needs its potential to be cut in half.
Salvage in WH's is not akin to counting LP for incursions. After smashing though several hundred C4 sites in the past few weeks, I can say that on average, salvage comes out to about 1/3 the value of the blue loot. Usually, we get an average of 4 nanoribbons per site. And since we fly in big enough fleets (you know... like 3 or more people) it makes more sense to have someone come along behind in a noctis to grab all the loot, and since they are doing that anyways they might as well spend a minute or so extra salvaging after they have finished pulling in all the wrecks. Yeah, with 3 people having 1 dedicated salvager cuts into isk/hour/char a little bit... but usually we can run in a group of 5 or so with 1 dedicated salvager and the salvager usually only has a minute or two of downtime between sites. Also, if you pimp for WH's anything like you pimp for incursions, the isk/hour figure goes up dramatically. 5 characters in tengu's? You'll be lucky to make 100mil an hour. 4 characters in nightmares + 1 supporting basi (go look at a post I made earlier this month to see said basi fit) and you can bump that up to 200mil or more an hour.
As for the incursions, if you are so against them how about you get 70 or so of your buddies and go kill the mom's after they pop. Look, there is already a means for you to cut back on their excessive income with just a little bit of effort on your part. Do it to all the motherships and suddenly they don't have any incursions to farm. How is that for "risk to earning potential?" You, with just a little bit of effort, can stop hundreds of people from making billions of isk/hour. Don't want to? Then shut up and stop complaining.
Maikhanh wrote:does loki actually work, we tried out on sisi, rapier with 40km web range even doesnt seem enough, loki with domination web is only 37km.
Use a booster or move. Loki with fed navy webs and electronics subsystem lvl 5 has 35km web range. With a lvl 5 booster without mindlink or bonused ship that bumps up to 42km. With a mindlinked loki booster that's a 49km web range. Or you can move, because the sleeper battleships only orbit at 37km, meaning that you can stay about 5km or so away from the dreads even without the booster and still web everything.
-Arazel |
Ammzi
Imperial Guardians
Blazing Angels Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 20:47:00 -
[73] - Quote
Solomar Espersei wrote: Much of that is due to the organization skills of BTL Pub & TDF and I tip my hat to them for that.
Wow, I just found new respect for the Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service alliance.
Thank you for the credit. We try to do our best  |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
74
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 21:10:00 -
[74] - Quote
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
As for the incursions, if you are so against them how about you get 70 or so of your buddies and go kill the mom's after they pop. Look, there is already a means for you to cut back on their excessive income with just a little bit of effort on your part. Do it to all the motherships and suddenly they don't have any incursions to farm. How is that for "risk to earning potential?" You, with just a little bit of effort, can stop hundreds of people from making billions of isk/hour. Don't want to? Then shut up and stop complaining.
You butthurt or something dude?
The fact is, the potential for that sort of isk shouldn't exist in high sec. End of story.
Judging by how mad you seem to be, you know this to be true but you don't want it to change, yet fear that CCP might eventually get wise and fix it.
tl;dr, u mad son? |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 00:50:00 -
[75] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Arazel Chainfire wrote:
As for the incursions, if you are so against them how about you get 70 or so of your buddies and go kill the mom's after they pop. Look, there is already a means for you to cut back on their excessive income with just a little bit of effort on your part. Do it to all the motherships and suddenly they don't have any incursions to farm. How is that for "risk to earning potential?" You, with just a little bit of effort, can stop hundreds of people from making billions of isk/hour. Don't want to? Then shut up and stop complaining.
You butthurt or something dude? The fact is, the potential for that sort of isk shouldn't exist in high sec. End of story. Judging by how mad you seem to be, you know this to be true but you don't want it to change, yet fear that CCP might eventually get wise and fix it. tl;dr, u mad son?
He's not mad. You are. He's not whinning. You are. He gets isk, you don't. Why should he be mad?
And no, your whinning will not make incursions go away. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
75
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 01:19:00 -
[76] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:He's not mad. You are. He's not whinning. You are. He gets isk, you don't. Why should he be mad? And no, your whinning will not make incursions go away.
sweet troll goose, excellent white knight post
feel free to be constructive once in a while, it wouldn't hurt you (much) |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 01:28:00 -
[77] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Goose99 wrote:He's not mad. You are. He's not whinning. You are. He gets isk, you don't. Why should he be mad? And no, your whinning will not make incursions go away. sweet troll goose, excellent white knight post feel free to be constructive once in a while, it wouldn't hurt you (much)
You mad, bro? |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
94
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 01:41:00 -
[78] - Quote
It's worth noting that Incursions are not an unlimited ISK faucet. Ripard Teg commented about this, but the short version is: there are a maximum of three incursions in hisec at any time, which means a maximum of about 400 capsuleers running incursions.
In w-space, things are a little different. You're not so heavily contended for sites, but then there is no guarantee that you'll have sites worth running.
My opinion is that vanguards pay a little too well: they should be tuned for 8-9 ships, or have the payout reduced about 10-20 percent.
PS: can't use percent sign since there's a URL tag in this post. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
75
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 01:43:00 -
[79] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Emperor Salazar wrote:Goose99 wrote:He's not mad. You are. He's not whinning. You are. He gets isk, you don't. Why should he be mad? And no, your whinning will not make incursions go away. sweet troll goose, excellent white knight post feel free to be constructive once in a while, it wouldn't hurt you (much) You mad, bro?
never stop posting bro |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 01:44:00 -
[80] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Goose99 wrote:Emperor Salazar wrote:Goose99 wrote:He's not mad. You are. He's not whinning. You are. He gets isk, you don't. Why should he be mad? And no, your whinning will not make incursions go away. sweet troll goose, excellent white knight post feel free to be constructive once in a while, it wouldn't hurt you (much) You mad, bro? never stop posting bro
n3v4r! |
|
Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
7
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 02:58:00 -
[81] - Quote
Arazel Chainfire wrote:Ok, instead of trolling, I'll give some numbers.
A very good posting by Arazel ... and entirely consistent with my observations in both w-space and incursions.
Thanks for takign the time Arazel.
|
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
75
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 13:52:00 -
[82] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:n3v4r!
I hear if you hit the F5 key enough, posts will automatically be generated for you. |
Kisuke Riva
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 19:09:00 -
[83] - Quote
The problem with incursions in general and specifically vanguards (as those are the primary money maker) is, that they pay out ISK directly into your wallet. As many of you might know, this is an ISK faucets. They are bad. They inject ISK into the economy out of nothing; they should be ISK sinks in form of Tags, LP or items instead. |
AureoLion
Etoilles Mortant Ltd.
Solyaris Chtonium
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:04:00 -
[84] - Quote
An economy needs currency injected in a 1:1 proportion to the value of the goods injected.
If you had 1tb of goods injected every day, and only 200b of currency, you'd see deflation.
The balance is more or less right, at the moment. |
Modikus
Mars University
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 03:20:00 -
[85] - Quote
Maikhanh wrote:TriadSte wrote:I personally have been making 100million p/h running vanguards. There is NOTHING as consistent as incursions for making Isk.
Do they need nerfing?
The answer is no, simply because there is alot of risk involved just as there is in a wormhole space. If a Basi pilot disconnects then the entire fleet can be popped very easily resulting in anything upto 50 billion isk being lost maybe more depending on fleet composition and modules installed.
Competeing in certain sites calls for killing tamas and spawning more Sansha in the hope of the DPS overwhelming the opposing fleets Logis and getting that fleet popped.
I have lived in a C3 for a long time but a C5-6 can't get alot of traffic really and even if they did your running with capitals with triage so that fleet is pretty much safe, Battleships arn't gonna warp in and try for the gank are they? lol...
Leave incursions alone, working as intended. incursion needs a nerf for sure. with 3 basi in a fleet, no way in hell your fleet will pop. and probably you havent seen any C5 cap km, 2 bhaal and you're dead for sure, or not even that, a few T3s with one logis would be enough taking down any cap running sites in C5, C6. your C3 with your pos is just too safe.
Just wanted to add that would only work for a single cap ship. U try that against any other situaton (if the carrier pilots are competent) and it be u on the km.
|
Arazel Chainfire
Fury Lords
Apex United
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 19:44:00 -
[86] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Arazel Chainfire wrote:
As for the incursions, if you are so against them how about you get 70 or so of your buddies and go kill the mom's after they pop. Look, there is already a means for you to cut back on their excessive income with just a little bit of effort on your part. Do it to all the motherships and suddenly they don't have any incursions to farm. How is that for "risk to earning potential?" You, with just a little bit of effort, can stop hundreds of people from making billions of isk/hour. Don't want to? Then shut up and stop complaining.
You butthurt or something dude? The fact is, the potential for that sort of isk shouldn't exist in high sec. End of story. Judging by how mad you seem to be, you know this to be true but you don't want it to change, yet fear that CCP might eventually get wise and fix it. tl;dr, u mad son?
Am I mad? no, but you appear to be. And as I pointed out, if you are that violently opposed to them, there is something that YOU can do about it. Also, don't forget that for every 100mil isk/hour fleet, there are probably 2-3 fleets that don't even hit the 50mil isk/hour mark, either due to competition, poor organization, etc. So, just as there are people who make 200mil isk/hour running lvl 4's, there are people making 200mil isk/hour running incursions. And just as where a vast majority of mission runners are lucky to make 50mil isk/hour running lvl 4's, the vast majority of incursion runners are lucky to make 50mil isk/hour running incursions. The only difference is that since it isn't dependent solely one 1 character, more people occasionally get to make 100mil/hour when they wouldn't normally be able to do that on their own.
-Arazel |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 03:29:00 -
[87] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Incursions in high sec should hit max 50 mil/hr/character, and I'd say that is pushing it right there.
Incursions in low sec, however, should easily exceed 100 mil/hr/character, if not more, as there is real risk there.
So you are saying incursions in high sec should give less than l4s? And while we may get 100 mil with "moderate" risk per hour at incursions, it seems to be consent that higher wormholes yield far more isk than those incursions. C3 with moderate risk either, while more profitable ones bring more risk as well.
Sounds like a fair deal to me? |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 03:34:00 -
[88] - Quote
Maikhanh wrote:[quote=Goose99]
btw, once they cloak, there's no way on earth you can see them....... l2wh
And no way for them to find you, So what is the matter? Probes are not cloaked. |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 03:36:00 -
[89] - Quote
Oh great, we have a brand new forum, its the year 2011. And CCP did not include a merge for double post.
The HTTPS Certificate is for "Unknown", hey can we get into someone else account via this incarnation of the forums again? |
Maikhanh
Deep Space Expedition.
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.05 04:21:00 -
[90] - Quote
Tenris Anis wrote:Maikhanh wrote:[quote=Goose99]
btw, once they cloak, there's no way on earth you can see them....... l2wh And no way for them to find you, So what is the matter? Probes are not cloaked.
they dont need probe to find u when ur running sites. |
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