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Slimy Worm
Sons of Viagra Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.05.14 23:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Slimy Worm on 14/05/2010 23:23:40 Edited by: Slimy Worm on 14/05/2010 23:21:02 Killmails of fail Nightmares flown by members of True Power (either ships flown by CCP employees or bots) are popping up on BattleClinic. We can't participate in the events unless we want to make our ISK-loss ratio inflated. Please quit giving killmails for players who are in NPC corporations that cannot normally be joined.
True Power losses:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=corp&name=True+Power
For consistency, the same should apply to lossmails unless a player was also on the mail.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.15 05:11:00 -
[2]
RPers like the killmails, and it doesn't hurt anyone. Solution - make the fits less fail.
Also, this may be the first time I've ever heard anyone complain about their killboard efficiency being too high.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.05.15 08:13:00 -
[3]
If this was a rare event or something else ok then killmails are a great thing to hand out as proof of your being at the event. But these "events" happen every few hours.
But I am supporting this proposal because killmails are supposed to be a record of your PvP activities and PvP record. They serve as confirmation of a player kill as without a killmail we devolve into "I killed you! Nah-uh, no you didn't!"
The main problem is that NPCs are far inferior to pilots. Killing a NPC that is spawned for you and doesn't web/scram you and doesn't focus fire and flies a terribly fit ship is miles below the average player fits. Sleepers are far harder and do not give out killmails.
Even worse is that the carriers that are spawned in lowsec drop fighters and capital sized modules. Why are PvP killmails and PvP loot being given out to players for PvE activities? Is this a major shift from CCP, are we getting away from actual PvP and moving towards battlegrounds and more PvE? These new live events just do not make sense. I'm confused to as why you are changing 7 years of killmails being from PvP. It lacks consistency, why not give out killmails for missions and mining and exploration and trading? - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
Teinyhr
Minmatar Nor'akho Matar
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Posted - 2010.05.15 08:58:00 -
[4]
Would it hurt you people to actually research stuff before vomiting the stuff above from their mouths?
You don't get NPC killmails. The ships are controlled by PLAYERS, albeit dev players, that give killmails. The only thing that is skewing efficiency is that they are currently using Sansha faction battleships - but you can hardly expect Sanshas to show up in armageddons, now.
If we're about not giving killmails because the ships aren't "properly fitted" (FYI, the ships have generally a huge buffer tank and no weapons other than NOS's/Neuts - I don't know about the Carriers as I haven't seen them, I think they have fighters though?), let's not also give killmails for suicide ganks and industrials, noobships, etc. I mean, they can't be properly PvP fitted, why should you get credit for such kills?
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.05.15 11:08:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto make the fits less fail.
That.
I like the idea of CCP devs/volounteers melting faces with properly fitted faction battleships. SPR lolfits, on the other hand, meh.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cyan Cure
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Posted - 2010.05.15 11:42:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Cyan Cure on 15/05/2010 11:43:13 True Power are w***ing on my killmails since i can remember. They deserve ev'ry loss they get.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.05.15 12:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Teinyhr not giving killmails because the ships aren't "properly fitted" let's not also give killmails for suicide ganks and industrials, noobships, etc. I mean, they can't be properly PvP fitted
Obvious strawman is obvious. -
DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.15 12:12:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 15/05/2010 12:16:00
I'd expect a faction ship flown in an event like that to be faction fitted and to go down in a big fight..the killmails I couldn't care less about.
VOTE SOKRATESZ for an unforgiving, unique and exciting EVE! |
Goumindong
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2010.05.15 12:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 15/05/2010 12:16:00
I'd expect a faction ship flown in an event like that to be faction fitted and to go down in a big fight..the killmails I couldn't care less about.
This is a terrible idea. Just like it was a terrible idea the first time CCP did it. --
A discussion on EVE, Combat, Gangs, and Balance |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.15 12:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Sokratesz
I'd expect a faction ship flown in an event like that to be faction fitted and to go down in a big fight..the killmails I couldn't care less about.
This is a terrible idea. Just like it was a terrible idea the first time CCP did it.
I'm not sure - I like the idea of CCP using events like this to progress a storyline, of course heavily influenced by player actions, and it caters to both a crowd of PVP'ers and roleplayers.
VOTE SOKRATESZ for an unforgiving, unique and exciting EVE! |
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.15 16:42:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 15/05/2010 12:16:00
I'd expect a faction ship flown in an event like that to be faction fitted and to go down in a big fight..the killmails I couldn't care less about.
This is a terrible idea. Just like it was a terrible idea the first time CCP did it.
A couple pieces of low-end faction gear might be tolerable. But if the loot is going to drop, you can't really fit a Nightmare with the sort of gear a Nightmare deserves, and you definitely can't fit a Wyvern with the sort of gear it deserves. That said, could they not at least make the T2-level fits sane?
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Nor'akho Matar
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Posted - 2010.05.15 19:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Teinyhr Obvious strawman is obvious.
Still about as valid complaint as the OP.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.05.15 20:23:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 15/05/2010 20:22:57
Originally by: Sokratesz it caters to both a crowd of PVP'ers
OFC, everyone dreams of shooting SPR-fitted nightmares with no guns and neuts with no cap booster. Them dropping CN invulns would be sweet.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.15 20:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Sokratesz it caters to both a crowd of PVP'ers
OFC, everyone dreams of shooting SPR-fitted nightmares with no guns and neuts with no cap booster. Them dropping CN invulns would be sweet.
Le sigh Only if they fight back properly ofc.
VOTE SOKRATESZ for an unforgiving, unique and exciting EVE! |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.05.15 21:23:00 -
[15]
The killmails allow people to see how those ships are fitted. The fits on those ships are so horrible you'd think they pulled random strangers off the street and put them in charge of these events. It is proof that the people running the events have very little understanding of the combat system.
Frankly, it is utter incompetence. It is yet another proof that CCP have no understanding of EVE combat system, and therefore they CAN NOT be trusted with game balancing decisions.
How can someone fitting their ship like that, have any understanding of the problems blaster ships have right now? and even get an inkling of what's wrong with rockets? Sure, maybe these are only the low level people who are incompetent, but they have superiors who have to approve their action. If any superior approved of this, he's just as incompetent as they are.
I vote YES on hiding the killmails, at least to reduce the stress I feel when I see how much CCP fails.
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Nor'akho Matar
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Posted - 2010.05.15 22:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ephemeron It is proof that the people running the events have very little understanding of the combat system.
I seriously ****ing hope you're trolling. The fits are bad because the ships aren't meant to kill as many players possible, but to survive as long as possible - ergo they have nearly nothing else but armor plates or shield extenders + equivalent rigs and resist modifiers.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.15 22:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Teinyhr
Originally by: Ephemeron It is proof that the people running the events have very little understanding of the combat system.
I seriously ****ing hope you're trolling. The fits are bad because the ships aren't meant to kill as many players possible, but to survive as long as possible - ergo they have nearly nothing else but armor plates or shield extenders + equivalent rigs and resist modifiers.
Which explains the shield power relays on battleships, right?
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Captain Brownfinger
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Posted - 2010.05.16 20:45:00 -
[18]
I find it hilarious the only reason given by the OP that the kill mails shouldn't exist is because of killboard efficiency ratio.
Worried about your e-peen much ? Looks that way with a corp name like Sons of Viagra.
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Jerid Verges
Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand
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Posted - 2010.05.16 22:25:00 -
[19]
Nullsec pubbies whining about their killboard being devauled. Oh the lolz.
Is your ego suffering a little too much that 'carebears' get to have some fun?
Also. You do realize the reason they are FAIL fitted is to prevent outcry's of "favoritism" for people getting that phat loot being dropped otherwise. Right?
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.16 22:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jerid Verges Nullsec pubbies whining about their killboard being devauled. Oh the lolz.
Is your ego suffering a little too much that 'carebears' get to have some fun?
Also. You do realize the reason they are FAIL fitted is to prevent outcry's of "favoritism" for people getting that phat loot being dropped otherwise. Right?
It's possible to make cheap fits that are non-fail. Using the same fitting rules they followed(T2 rigs, T2 gear), I can make a Nightmare that deals 1129 DPS pulse/1024 DPS beam, has 164k EHP pulse/170k beam(beam needs a PDU to fit), and runs a MWD, a cap booster, and a shield RR that gives 314 tank to another Nightmare. The cap lasts a decent length of time, and as long as the ships stay in a ball, their tank and DPS would both be pretty fearsome - drop a couple dozen of those onto the field and watch the RPers boil. The Nightmare is a ridiculously good ship, even without faction gear, as long as you fit it right.
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Corbeau Lenoir
ZER0. IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.17 06:18:00 -
[21]
I couldn't care less about killmails given for those ships. I'm glad that live events are back, even if I do not participate in them. But I agree, that fits need to be better, preferably faction fitted.
Vote me for CSM5! |
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.05.17 06:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Corbeau Lenoir I couldn't care less about killmails given for those ships. I'm glad that live events are back, even if I do not participate in them. But I agree, that fits need to be better, preferably faction fitted.
Just take examples from my death mails.
How about CCP let me fly those faction fitted Nightmares? let me choose the mods. And I will make a bloodbath out of those carebears
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.17 07:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Corbeau Lenoir I couldn't care less about killmails given for those ships. I'm glad that live events are back, even if I do not participate in them. But I agree, that fits need to be better, preferably faction fitted.
Just take examples from my death mails.
How about CCP let me fly those faction fitted Nightmares? let me choose the mods. And I will make a bloodbath out of those carebears
'Tis the beauty of live events. If you want to bring a winfit Nightmare, bring it, and shoot yourself some RPers. Will only work on the lowsec events, of course, but still.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.17 10:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Cpt Branko
OFC, everyone dreams of shooting SPR-fitted nightmares with no guns and neuts with no cap booster. Them dropping CN invulns would be sweet.
Le sigh Only if they fight back properly ofc.
"Fight back properly" against 200+ ships targeting the nice faction fitted ship piloted by the CCP actor and disregarding the NPC piloted ships.
And what is your definition of "Fight back properly" in that situation?
Living 10 seconds more thank to the faction fittings?
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.05.17 19:25:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Bagehi on 17/05/2010 19:26:00 If you were to design a bait ship with the constraints of:
faction battleship only T2 fittings
How would you fit it?
I mean, that's basically what that ship was. It lasted long enough to pull a bunch of people together in high sec who ended up shooting each other (based on the battle report).
A faction battleship designed to kill people with the ability to do that sans concord would be... horrible. I can't imagine the threadnought steaming from "The devs killed my drake" "They killed my raven too!"
The problem with many of these live events is the inability to pull together PVPers in a timely way without melting dozens of PVEers first.
Sure, these things are supposed to be terrifying, but imagine the terror a player could wreck with a faction BS that was immune to concord.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.17 21:18:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 17/05/2010 21:20:37
Originally by: Bagehi The problem with many of these live events is the inability to pull together PVPers in a timely way without melting dozens of PVEers first.
Assuming the servers could handle it(which they probably could if you pick a system that isn't naturally too busy and reinforce the node), they should make an event with a decently fit group of enemies, and give out an hour or two worth of notice to people. Let them actually form up properly, and then throw a ball of lasery death at people. If they actually built a proper NPC AI into the mix, it'd be really awesome. Imagine a proper Sansha fleet - headed up with a Leviathan, maybe a Wyvern or two, a few triage Chimeras and DPS Revelations, couple dozen Nightmares, some Phantasms, Basilisks, Onyxes, Rooks, Curses, and the like in support. Maybe 100 ships in all, with human pilots on the important ones and competent AI in the rest. Small enough that the players could win, but big enough that they'd know they were in a fight. Now that would be a live event worth having.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.18 10:23:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 18/05/2010 10:23:57
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 17/05/2010 21:20:37
Originally by: Bagehi The problem with many of these live events is the inability to pull together PVPers in a timely way without melting dozens of PVEers first.
Assuming the servers could handle it(which they probably could if you pick a system that isn't naturally too busy and reinforce the node), they should make an event with a decently fit group of enemies, and give out an hour or two worth of notice to people. Let them actually form up properly, and then throw a ball of lasery death at people. If they actually built a proper NPC AI into the mix, it'd be really awesome. Imagine a proper Sansha fleet - headed up with a Leviathan, maybe a Wyvern or two, a few triage Chimeras and DPS Revelations, couple dozen Nightmares, some Phantasms, Basilisks, Onyxes, Rooks, Curses, and the like in support. Maybe 100 ships in all, with human pilots on the important ones and competent AI in the rest. Small enough that the players could win, but big enough that they'd know they were in a fight. Now that would be a live event worth having.
Ahem ...
"A proper Sansha fleet with 1 titan, 1-2 supercarrier, a few carriers and support fleet of faction ships, 100 or so total"
Against a ragtag fleet without any capital ship, no chain of command, no time to organize the fleet right, mostly made up by PvE people. You see nothing wrong in this picture Herschel?
It is an event made to entertain players. Not a training course for 0.0 battles.
Killing a titan, especially a well supported and well tanked titan, using BS and smaller ships is a long process. Fighting a 100 man fleet (even if 90% of it is made by AI controlled ships) with several capital and supercapitals in high sec would be a nightmare.
Or you want to limit events to low sec where alliances would bring well organized fleets if the payout is good enough?
Note that a good AI could potentially be more damaging than a fleet of the same size managed by players as it will be capable of more efficient focus fire.
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Orree
Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.05.18 15:34:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Sokratesz
I'd expect a faction ship flown in an event like that to be faction fitted and to go down in a big fight..the killmails I couldn't care less about.
This is a terrible idea. Just like it was a terrible idea the first time CCP did it.
I'm not sure - I like the idea of CCP using events like this to progress a storyline, of course heavily influenced by player actions, and it caters to both a crowd of PVP'ers and roleplayers.
I agree. As long as it is done above-board and not "steered" towards powerful 0.0 factions on the basis of favoritism.
My sense of the gist of this thread is that people are getting bent about killmails of expensive ships with failfits. Wha-wha-what!? We're looking to be in the business of quality-controlling killmails now? Failfits don't count?
That's funny.
:thumbsdown: Not supported.
---------- "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli |
Nestor Laurenitis
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.05.18 15:43:00 -
[29]
I support this with the exception of the most excellent Concord Special Ops BS that Rote Kapelle took down.
You'll only get that kill from my cold dead hands.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.05.18 15:56:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Bagehi on 18/05/2010 16:06:14
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto [If they actually built a proper NPC AI into the mix, it'd be really awesome.
That is really what the problem boils down to.
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Imagine a proper Sansha fleet - headed up with a Leviathan, maybe a Wyvern or two, a few triage Chimeras and DPS Revelations, couple dozen Nightmares, some Phantasms, Basilisks, Onyxes, Rooks, Curses, and the like in support. Maybe 100 ships in all, with human pilots on the important ones and competent AI in the rest. Small enough that the players could win, but big enough that they'd know they were in a fight. Now that would be a live event worth having.
It would be worth having. People would be much more willing to participate and such events would be a considerably bigger deal.
Originally by: Venkul Mul Ahem ...
"A proper Sansha fleet with 1 titan, 1-2 supercarrier, a few carriers and support fleet of faction ships, 100 or so total"
Against a ragtag fleet without any capital ship, no chain of command, no time to organize the fleet right, mostly made up by PvE people. You see nothing wrong in this picture Herschel?
If a fleet like that showed up, people would come to fight it. People including those who can kill such ships. Can you imagine how giddy empire pilots would be to be involved in taking out super caps?
A side note, I was sad to see a lack of real faction caps. Hearing about these events had me hoping for some monstrous True Sansha carriers with spikes sticking out in all directions.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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