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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.17 01:41:00 -
[271]
Edited by: Archbishop on 17/05/2010 01:44:00
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Archbishop Given this the guilt of the Star Fraction is obvious via their association with known slaver and Amarr Empress supporter Revan Neferis. The Star Fraction supports slavery and the Amarrian regime using this logic?
I think you have court case to attend. Your "reputation" is at stake. Probably a good idea to stop lying just long enough to defend yourself there (if you can).
Humerous to be sure but I'm assuming hardly impartial. A Star Fraction run court... run by someone who participated in the events sponsored by known slaver and Amarr Empress supporter Revan Neferis... well I seriously doubt it's impartial at all as one of my statements is using your logic about I-RED (that they supported CVA thus supported slavery) means you yourself are guilty of supporting slavery due to your support of her.
But if you'd like to present here any evidence refuting what I've posted above please feel free to. Given the tone of posting by others in this thread against the violent acts of the Star Fraction you must be truly desperate to try and enact some damage control.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.05.17 01:53:00 -
[272]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/05/2010 01:53:14
Originally by: Archbishop Given the tone of posting by others in this thread against the violent acts of the Star Fraction ...
And by "others" you mean ammatar, turncoats, quislings, cva pets, slaver enforcers and general bottom-feeding galnet blowhards with neither name nor reputation right? While they are certainly at your level they are hardly likely to persuade anybody with the tiniest fraction of independent thought and backbone.
True Knowledge |
Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.17 02:09:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/05/2010 01:53:14
Originally by: Archbishop Given the tone of posting by others in this thread against the violent acts of the Star Fraction ...
And by "others" you mean ammatar, turncoats, quislings, cva pets, slaver enforcers and general bottom-feeding galnet blowhards with neither name nor reputation right? While they are certainly at your level they are hardly likely to persuade anybody with the tiniest fraction of independent thought and backbone.
By others I mean everyone else in this thread. I mean it has been kind of a disaster for you. Even the pirate from Veto condemned you. The Matari said I-RED was working to free slaves. I mean ouch this has been a PR disaster for you.
So if you want to believe all these other voices mean nothing thats fine. If it makes you feel better go ahead.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.05.17 02:29:00 -
[274]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/05/2010 02:29:25
Originally by: Archbishop Even the pirate from Veto condemned you. The Matari (turncoat) said I-RED was working to free slaves.
Veto have never had anything good to say about Star Fraction, they've always seemed quite fond of you though, strange isn't it. And a Matari turncoat says I-RED aren't slaver enforcers. What a surprise! Seriously. You are reaching and its a bit painful to watch.
True Knowledge |
Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.17 23:49:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Archbishop Even the pirate from Veto condemned you. The Matari (turncoat) said I-RED was working to free slaves.
Veto have never had anything good to say about Star Fraction...
It's really kind of funny you know... it seems no one has ever had anything good to say about the Star Fraction. I look back at years of your threads and it really seems like you against everyone else. Oh occasionally you'll have a friend but they never last. Even your former corpmates in Stimulus have had a few choice words for your "style" of leadership here on IGS.
Some advice for you Jade. When you hang out with a known slaver and Amarr Empress supporter (Revan Neferis) and support her events then at the same time shoot someone you claim was supporting slavers it really doesn't make you look sincere about your cause. It looks downright hypocritical.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.05.18 00:52:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Archbishop It's really kind of funny you know... it seems no one has ever had anything good to say about the Star Fraction. I look back at years of your threads and it really seems like you against everyone else. Oh occasionally you'll have a friend but they never last. Even your former corpmates in Stimulus have had a few choice words for your "style" of leadership here on IGS.
You obviously view these things through your delerium-coloured obsessive glasses mind. I recall an awful lot of kind words and best wishes spoken on our threads by a wide range of capsuleers who name their independence and open-minded thinking on subjects. We are condemned by dogs, maggots, and puling amarrian crawlers of course, and we're quite badly thought of by ammatar turncoats and quislings also, and assorted cowardly forum-proxies definately hate us, but people whose opinion matter? They generally support us. But good of you to remind us for your praise and good feelings towards the corp-thieves of Stimulus! Nice to know your sensibilities on such things are flexible where Star Fraction is concerned. I imagine you need to find "friends" where you can these days Archbishop. Nobody really has much time for you any more. But do keep demonstrating your desperate stalking on our thread! Its good to hammer home the PR success of harvesting Amarrian bleating and tears on this scale.
True Knowledge |
Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.18 02:23:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
But good of you to remind us for your praise and good feelings towards the corp-thieves of Stimulus! Nice to know your sensibilities on such things are flexible where Star Fraction is concerned.
Oh like Veto I don't approve of the actions of Stimulus at all. But they do have my respect for at least being honest about who they are. They steal things, blow stuff up and generally do what they want. They don't try to hide who they are behind some image of "freespace" or being noble "free captains". They are what they are.
The Star Fraction has made a habit of doing the opposite of what they claim. Claiming to oppose slavery yet they support a known slaver and supporter of the Amarr Empress. Claiming to oppose closed space yet cutting backroom deals with NBSI territorial enclosurist alliances. It's hypocrisy upon hypocrisy with you. It would be so much easier if you were just honest about who you are. You like to blow stuff up and run wild causing anarchy. There is no noble "free captain" cause it's just plain old "BOOM BOOM BOOM" with you. If you were a noble "free captain" you sure wouldn't be bedding down with a known slaver and Amarr Empress supporter (Revan Neferis) nor would you be cutting deals with enclosurist alliances (Daisho Syndicate).
It's the claimed ideology you have that sinks you every time because you can't stop contradicting it with your actions. Just be honest about who you are.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.05.18 02:29:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Archbishop Oh like Veto I don't approve of the actions of Stimulus at all. But they do have my respect for at least being honest about who they are.
We get it. As long as they oppose Star Fraction you will forgive them anything. Its fairly clear your obsession is such that you will support literally anybody as long as they don't like the free captains and revolutionary free space ethics. Not that your "respect" is actually worth much
Buy Justice!
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.18 03:37:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
We get it. As long as they oppose Star Fraction you will forgive them anything. Its fairly clear your obsession is such that you will support literally anybody as long as they don't like the free captains and revolutionary free space ethics. Not that your "respect" is actually worth much.
Actually I'd even say something good about Star Fraction if they'd be honest about who they are. I was personally robbed of about $5b isk a couple of months ago when one of my shipyard POS's was stolen by a pirate alliance when I forgot to fuel it due to some planetside obligations. They made no secret about who they were or what they did. I certainly disliked what happened but they were pirates who didn't try to hide who they were. I respect that honesty even out of those who do acts I find completely objectionable.
I have discovered something just now as well pointed out to me by a friend Jasmine. Apparently my belief that you are supporting a slaver isn't exactly correct. It seems your CEO's lover and the organizer of the latest "games" you participated in released her slaves several months ago! I was incorrect! I will apologize for calling her a slaver to clear the record and will instead call her an "ex-slaver". As I wish no contact with her due to her apparent obsession in believing I'm stalking her I will ask you to pass it on for me. I find her erratic ever-changing loyalities and things like being in a pirate alliance and the blood worshiper stuff a bit to much for me.
Still though this raises more questions then it answers... for example your relationship with this ex-slaver started well before she released her slaves. How is that possible when you opposed slavery going back to the Mamet 500 days? Also the attack on I-RED was made because you claimed they had supported slavery in Providence. As they clearly left Providence and had reset their red-list they clearly had renounced their previous actions by those acts. When asked about slavery activities they said "NOT ANY MORE". Yet you attacked them and even now call them "slavers". I would expect you to correct yourself as I have here with your ally (the known Amarr Empress supporter and member of The Final Stand pirate alliance Revan Neferis).
Will you make such a public statement of correction as I have done? I clearly was incorrect about your friend the ex-slaver Revan Neferis and quite clearly to the Star Fraction being an ex-slaver is OK if you say you're not doing it anymore (as she did). As I-RED clearly said "NOT ANY MORE" and quite clearly left Providence they seem to have done exactly what your friend the ex-slaver did.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.05.18 03:51:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Archbishop Actually I'd even say something good about Star Fraction if they'd be honest about who they are.
Problem is you don't appear to know the meaning of the word "honesty". You have been lying for so many years about everything its impossible for you to tell truth from lies and these days you live in a delusion of your own fantasies. Doubtless its why you were removed from the position of CEO from PIE because lets face it, who needs a non-combatent galnet fantasist as a military leader (appropriate as that might well be for toothless nationalist hasbeens).
Buy Justice!
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.18 04:11:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
Originally by: Archbishop Actually I'd even say something good about Star Fraction if they'd be honest about who they are.
Problem is you don't appear to know the meaning of the word "honesty". You have been lying for so many years about everything its impossible for you to tell truth from lies and these days you live in a delusion of your own fantasies. Doubtless its why you were removed from the position of CEO from PIE because lets face it, who needs a non-combatent galnet fantasist as a military leader (appropriate as that might well be for toothless nationalist hasbeens).
Actually the PIE CEO position is quite transitory and the Admiralty rotates through it. Each CEO serves for as long as they wish then steps down. In my case planetside duties and a desire to focus on more spiritual aspects of life led to my decision to step aside. PIE doesn't operate as a personality cult with some self-declared messiah egoist at the helm who rules with an iron fist and demands total obedience for it's entire existence (like a particular anarchist corporation I can think of).
I can only assume your obvious lack of attention to the question of the Star Fraction's association with a known slaver for several years (now an ex-slaver as of five months ago) means yet another "inconvenient truth" has been exposed and you're to humiliated to address it. Perhaps phrasing it as a couple of questions would help you.
Why did the Star Fraction associate with and support a known slaver for over a year while she held slaves yet claim to oppose slavery?
Why does the Star Fraction now associate with and support a known supporter of the Amarr Empress yet claim to oppose the Amarr regime?
Given you've used as reasons to justify your attack on I-RED that they supported slavers in Providence and supported the Amarr regime I'm sure your answers will be most revealing. Then again no one really expects you to answer them. Inconvenient truths... kind of inconvenient huh?
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.05.18 04:25:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Archbishop Actually the PIE CEO position is quite transitory and the Admiralty rotates through it.
I actually heard you were fired because the general membership considered you inappropriate to lead because of your failure to provide combat support and active command to the faithful. Thats certainly the story your ex-members are telling.
Buy Justice!
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Cheiftan
Minmatar Shinryaku Annwn Matari
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Posted - 2010.05.18 06:50:00 -
[283]
My argument is Invalid because IÆm a ôturncoat, Blood traitorö a blood traitor who happened to be a Valklear General, a traitor who has killed PIE along with many other Amarr supporters in the militia, hmm yes my arguments are totally invalid.
Well if you donÆt recognise the sarcasm.. Then IÆm sorry to say this jade but that would make you a bit dimà
So lets look at the Facts and Fiction here...
Quote: [04:15:06] Jade Constantine > we will need to have a brief discussion in public (local) where Ishukone-Raata express their severing of ties with the CVA and disavowal of Amarrian nationalism, in return we will return their standings to neutral and remove the wardec and wish them well in the future
So from your knowledge you suggest here that I-RED is a supporter of the empress, and an Amarrian subsidiary, without any proof apart from the argument about them living in Old Providence at one point in their History.
Quote: Cheiftan > i come in peace for the freedom of the Matari people. We Carry liberated slaves Mokarran Rakor > we grant you safe passage for the cause Kazzzi > Our pilots will not fire Cheiftan > thank you Kazzzi > are these people freed under the empressÆ emancipation? or have you liberated them under other means? Cheiftan > all slaves ar freed via negotians with or caldari allies Kazzzi > You do understand that CVA and the provi block dont approve with negotiating with what they consider a criminal element right? John Revenent > We do. Cheiftan > however Kazzzi > we appreciate the risks you are taking Cheiftan > we are not CVA Yo****aka Moromuo > Allow me to confirm that Mokarran Rakor will be receiving the pa ssengers?
Here we see the transfer of the freed slaves to the UshraÆKhan, you will also see us clearly stating that we do not follow every CVA policy and in fact denounce their slavery policy in front of UshraÆKhan, now we understand you are bother separate entities but hereÆs some well documented proof.
Now this was before I-RED signed a Holders Agreement which was something that I disagreed with and for that reason we left I-RED.
Now while you may think that our methods where wrong, well that down to you every man woman and child is entitled to their opinion we felt that diplomacy would do the trick.
Now jade I have little quarrel with you or star fraction but I have some questionsà
Why have you dodged the following pieces of evidence from your own chat logs by calling everyone who mentions it a turn coat a traitor or a liar.
Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 06/05/2010 18:26:32
[ 2010.05.05 20:32:58 ] John Revenent > We are not slavers.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
[ 2010.05.05 20:33:27 ] The Cosmopolite > You happily worked with and supported the vile slaver regime of the CVA. [ 2010.05.05 20:33:51 ] The Cosmopolite > You are an apologist for and supporter of slavery. [ 2010.05.05 20:33:52 ] John Revenent > We do so no more, I suggest you work on your intel
Freedom will come through respect not the barrel of a gun |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.05.18 14:01:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Cheiftan My argument is Invalid because IÆm a ôturncoat, Blood traitorö So lets look at the Facts and Fiction here...
Yes your arguments are endangered by your past as an ammatar turncoat certainly, but the thing that condemns them ultimately is the simple fact of past I-RED galnet announcements that contradict your position absolutely.
We asked John Revenent to disavow CVA publicly because the last recorded statements of his (your then?) organization on the public record where these statements
Originally by: Cheiftan (handover of slaves occuring in Providence) Now this was before I-RED signed a Holders Agreement which was something that I disagreed with and for that reason we left I-RED.
I'm not going to tell you that handover didn't happen Cheiftan. In fact since I generally trust the comments Kazzzi has made here I think its likely it did take place as you say, and though you were deeply misguided to join I-RED in their role of CVA-enforcers in Providence (fighting anti slaver forces and defending Amarrian imperialism) you yourself seem to have registered a personal judgement against John Revenent's organization by leaving when they were asked to sign a slave contract from Aralis.
Quote: Now while you may think that our methods where wrong, well that down to you every man woman and child is entitled to their opinion we felt that diplomacy would do the trick.
Well I have to say, we didn't set you red or aggress vessels of the Annwn Matari and the cause of the recent diplomatic change was your organization declaring CONCORD SANCTIONED WAR against the Star Fraction in protest at our actions against I-RED. You could have remained neutral in that dispute if you chose but your actions in providing military support to John Revenent's slave contract signing, CVA enforcer KOS list subordinate organization did the "diplomacy" for you in this case.
Quote: Now jade I have little quarrel with you or star fraction but I have some questionsà Why have you dodged the following pieces of evidence from your own chat logs by calling everyone who mentions it a turn coat a traitor or a liar.
[ 2010.05.05 20:32:58 ] John Revenent > We are not slavers.
Mainly we've pointed people at I-RED public statements which make Revenent's claim irrelevent. For example
Whether John Revenent considers I-RED are "slavers" or not is scarcely important to our diplomatic condemnation of I-RED's admitted role as enforcers for Imperialist Slavers in Providence. And this role has not been condemned or disavowed by I-RED. Its a little like a Murderer claiming he didn't actually hill the victim he only held the man down hands and feet while somebody else did the actual knife-work and killing. Its not a credible defense. I-RED actively engaged forces opposed to the CVA in Providence and as a result protected a slaving regime based on repression and fear. You yourself left them in disagreement with the slave-contract Aralis demanded be signed. Really now, can you be that surprised that people who were attacked by I-RED in direct support of slavery should be unconvinced by John Revenent's mealy-mouthed evasions and refusal to comprehensively condemn his late paymasters.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
[ 2010.05.05 20:33:27 ] The Cosmopolite > You happily worked with and supported the vile slaver regime of the CVA. [ 2010.05.05 20:33:51 ] The Cosmopolite > You are an apologist for and supporter of slavery. [ 2010.05.05 20:33:52 ] John Revenent > We do so no more, I suggest you work on your intel
But of course we had worked on our intel before we arrived at that memorial and John Revenent's last public statements on his relationship with the CVA were an outpouring of shame at how he'd failed them.
True Knowledge |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.18 14:13:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
Originally by: Archbishop Actually the PIE CEO position is quite transitory and the Admiralty rotates through it.
I actually heard you were fired because the general membership considered you inappropriate to lead because of your failure to provide combat support and active command to the faithful. Thats certainly the story your ex-members are telling.
You heard wrong. |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.18 14:15:00 -
[286]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 18/05/2010 14:15:59
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
Originally by: Archbishop Actually I'd even say something good about Star Fraction if they'd be honest about who they are.
Problem is you don't appear to know the meaning of the word "honesty". You have been lying for so many years about everything its impossible for you to tell truth from lies and these days you live in a delusion of your own fantasies. Doubtless its why you were removed from the position of CEO from PIE because lets face it, who needs a non-combatent galnet fantasist as a military leader (appropriate as that might well be for toothless nationalist hasbeens).
Jasmine, oh Jasmine. Why do you still insist on playing the honesty card when you have multiple cases of dishonesty in your own past? |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.05.18 14:21:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Jasmine, oh Jasmine. Why do you still insist on playing the honesty card when you have multiple cases of dishonesty in your own past?
Mainly because its true. Nobody really believes a word you say Rodj Blake. Your reputation is utterly discredited. Do you imagine anyone actually reads a word you say? The links you provide demonstrate nothing but your shame with repeated endless evasions and attempts to claim black is white, up is down, slavery is freedom and deceit is virtue. Now you have task of claiming that the CVA executor Aralis shouldn't earn an organizational -10 from PIE Inc. for his involvement in the Sani Sabik gladiator games. Better get working on your excuse!
True Knowledge |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.18 14:31:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Rodj Blake Jasmine, oh Jasmine. Why do you still insist on playing the honesty card when you have multiple cases of dishonesty in your own past?
Mainly because its true. Nobody really believes a word you say Rodj Blake. Your reputation is utterly discredited. Do you imagine anyone actually reads a word you say? The links you provide demonstrate nothing but your shame with repeated endless evasions and attempts to claim black is white, up is down, slavery is freedom and deceit is virtue. Now you have task of claiming that the CVA executor Aralis shouldn't earn an organizational -10 from PIE Inc. for his involvement in the Sani Sabik gladiator games. Better get working on your excuse!
I refer you to my answer here.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
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Posted - 2010.05.18 18:42:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Jade Constantine [...] In any case, since Ishukone now are fully harnessed by Heth's people its likely the current shape of the corporation is not one greatly pleasing to the late Otro Gariushi who as I'm sure you know was extremely critical of Heth's designs for the state.
[...]There is nothing sacred about a memorial for the dead.[...] we have shown clear evidence he is a support of slavery through his actions in Providence fighting for and supporting the CVA cause through adoption of their KOS list. This is not seriously questioned by anyone.
Perhaps the current shape is not greatly pleasing to Gariushi, but maybe it was not even when he was the CEO. I doubt that most persons remembered in memorials are greatly pleased by (some of) those remembering them. Gariushi was only one of many who were remembered at the memorial. I think it's likely that at least one among them is greatly pleased by the current shape of Ishukone, and that Gariushi is not greatly pleased by your conduct at the memorial.
While I agree with you on the sacredness of a memorial, especially when compared to the lives aboard a battleship, you seem to be making a big fuss about it.
While you may be right about I-RED fighting for CVA and adopting their KOS list, the motivation for doing so is questioned by some. Befriending someone often places you in a better position to negotiate a change in their behaviour. Your insults at my adress fail to create sympathy for your actions, for example. It certainly looks nothing like an apology towards those visiting the memorial that may have have been disturbed by your actions. I think you might have a hard time recruiting any rookie pilots for your cause if they hear about how you think they don't matter. I think the value of an argument is not determined by the one bringing it to the debate, but by the argument itself.
Your use of "any time and place" reads to me like you have no objections against collateral damage at all. In fact, because you have chosen the memorial as the time and place of all times and places, it seems like collateral damage is one of your objectives. I fear the day you hear of a slaver visiting an orphanage to donate some ISK.
I can understand this is may be hard for you, but could you answer at least this question you left unanswered: should you punish someone when he does something wrong, or when he does something right?
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