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Nisanthro
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Posted - 2010.06.29 15:13:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Achura 001 Losing SP is as much fail as having to train learning skills in order to learn! Both should be removed from the game! >:
No.
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Shaloran Kalior
Gallente XX III
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Posted - 2010.06.29 15:26:00 -
[32]
I have lost SP due to forgetting to update my clone once that I remember.
That is in 7 years of playing.
If you manage to lose SP through not updating your clone, it's your own stupid fault.
And to the person that said that your SP's are part of the commercial contract with CCP, you're an idiot. The ONLY thing that your monthly sub gets you is access to the servers when they are available. EVERYTHING you own in game belongs to CCP. That includes your character, your assets, your bookmarks and yes, your skillpoints too. Post with your main! |
Urgg Boolean
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Posted - 2010.06.29 15:30:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Jedi Stallion Eve is supposed to be the MMO with the most risk, and thus the adrenaline of coming close to losing and the glory/satisfaction of killing your enemies. <SNIP>
I love it when people say there is risk. There is NO RISK AT ALL. EvE is a game, and as such, any risk is only perceived and/or fabricated : not real. We don't even lose the time played recovering lost resources as it is consumed as part of our recreational time budget that we would expend anyway. Reality versus the Matrix.
If you really seek risk, take a vacation in one of those third world countries that arrest/torture you for simply being American. For added excitement, flip off the border guards ... now THAT is real risk.
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Nabiah
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Posted - 2010.06.29 16:45:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Shaloran Kalior
And to the person that said that your SP's are part of the commercial contract with CCP, you're an idiot.
then why is CCp compensating their costumers with Skill points for extended downtime?
calling people idiot wont make you look smart at all :)
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Karak Terrel
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Posted - 2010.06.29 17:02:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Achura 001 Losing SP is as much fail as having to train learning skills in order to learn! Both should be removed from the game! >:
No
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Spurty
Caldari D00M. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.06.29 17:22:00 -
[36]
Keeping medical insurance up to date is not quite as 'simple' as some say.
Can't all live out of stations with medical.
Those that can, "bully for you".
You do not speak for everyone.
I've lost skills about 5 times now. Trained up to fly HACs 3 of those times.
pretty lame.
For a PVP game, you sure do get your knackers slammed hard for PVPing and not once or twice.
NAPS: forcing you to play 'their' game |
Ghaylenty
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Posted - 2010.06.29 17:41:00 -
[37]
id be in favor of allowing lost SP to be repurchased with ISK for a ridiculous amount which would undoubtedly help level the economy
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Shemmy
7th Space Cavalry
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Posted - 2010.06.30 15:06:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Penjual Sayur
Originally by: Nisanthro
Originally by: Jedi Stallion is anyone actually in favor of losing sp if forgetting to update your clone?
Yes.
Yes
Yes.
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Spades Slick
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Posted - 2010.06.30 15:22:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Urgg Boolean
Originally by: Jedi Stallion Eve is supposed to be the MMO with the most risk, and thus the adrenaline of coming close to losing and the glory/satisfaction of killing your enemies. <SNIP>
I love it when people say there is risk. There is NO RISK AT ALL. EvE is a game, and as such, any risk is only perceived and/or fabricated : not real. We don't even lose the time played recovering lost resources as it is consumed as part of our recreational time budget that we would expend anyway. Reality versus the Matrix.
If you really seek risk, take a vacation in one of those third world countries that arrest/torture you for simply being American. For added excitement, flip off the border guards ... now THAT is real risk.
All right, then, old-timer, us young'uns don't know how it is. We apologize for our insolence.
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RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.06.30 15:33:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Spurty ... Can't all live out of stations with medical.
you don't have to - just leave your medical clone in a station that does, then JC back to the battle --
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Ehnea Mehk
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.30 15:48:00 -
[41]
Updating your clone is an easy, low-maintenance solution if you just get a clone that is several grades higher than what you normally get. I don't need a Zeta Clone, I'm well below the skillpoint threshold for that. Yet, getting that clone ensures I do not constantly check to make sure I did not go over my clone limit. I got a lot of growing space.
Ehnea Mehk |
Cebraio
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Posted - 2010.06.30 16:02:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Armoured C i have a sticky note of my pc screen which i use for eve which is a check list before i undock. kinda like a launch sequence before undocking.
check clone check ammo check fitting check cargo check local check intel
-undock
I like that list. I would probably add "Check wardecs" to it, when in empire. But then again I never forget any of this before I undock. It's stuck in my BRAIN anyway.
Still the SP penalty can be a bit harsh if you're just drunk or in a careless mood.
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2010.06.30 16:15:00 -
[43]
Originally by: MacGyver SG1 It's fine the way it is.
It punishes the unprepared.
don't you mean munchkins?
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.06.30 16:28:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Nabiah Edited by: Nabiah on 29/06/2010 13:17:02 In Game, you can build ships but you can loose them. You can farm ISK but you can loose it. Everything you can build in game you can loose.
The issue is that you cannot build SP in game as a character. You can even buy learning implants but you can loose them. then you can buy it again. you can buy your ships back. you can buy your Player owned station back. But you cannot buy your lost Skillpoint back because it is a OOC (out of character) value. its something you get from the out-of-game fact that you are a costumer of a company that provides game time which you buy with your RL cash. And this is the core of the issue. No other loss has consequences out of the EVE universe but this does. It actualy affects the player out of game concerning time investment without giving you an In-game chance to recover it as you are given in ships, ISk, implants, etc.
There are other MMOG where players loose SP on death too. And thats probably where CCP got the idea. But in those MMOG games players get SP from their kills and Not from their commercial relation with CCP.
You are paying to be allowed entrance into EVE world and getting SP over time. the SP you get are part of the commercial deal you make with CCP.
Having a game mechanism that takes SP from you without giving you the game mechanism to recover it (like you can with ISK and stuff) is like making a RL deal where you get robed a share of what you have agreed.
The Skillpoint loss from being poded affects you as a CCP costomer more then EVE pilots. And this is bad policy, bad game design, bad marketing strategy, bad idea, bad commercial ethic And a GREAT SCAM. IF there is to be a penalty for IN-Game action, it should concern IN-game consequence.
We cannot kill rats to get SP back like in other MMOG with SP death penalty. In EVE you can only pay for more game time where you will get the same SP you had already payed for.
STOP SCAMMING, FIX IT NOW !
You aren't robbed of anything. The agreement you have with CCP includes no promise that you will have the skill points you accumulate protected from loss. Indeed, they aren't even your skill points to begin with.
You put money into a retirement account, yet you pay an agreed upon penalty for early withdrawl. Well, if you are pod killed without paying for an up to date clone, there is a penalty to be paid in skill points. You agree to that when you agree to play the game.
The mechanics of it are sound and make sense. Losing a clone that was created some time ago may not be able to completely handle all of the new knowledge dumped into it at the point of your death. Some of the more involved knowledge may be lost and need to be relearned. I have no problem with this.
Strategically it also makes for a deeper level of game play, a way to hurt/hinder your enemy other than through direct ship/isk loss.
There is no sound reason to change this. Stop trying to dumb down EVE.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Famble
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.06.30 16:52:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Famble on 30/06/2010 16:53:49 What's not to like. It fits into the lore really nicely, the idea of keeping your clone updated is an awesome mechanic from an immersion perspective. In addition to that it fits into the "We didn't design Eve to resemble a cold, harsh world. We designed Eve to BE a cold, harsh world."
I like the guy that said he has a pre-flight checklist stickied to his monitor to reference prior to undocking. Make that two of us tonight, great idea!
The reason I'm here and not still raiding in WoW is because of that cold, harsh world they have created. I lost a Hurricane last week on my first jaunt into 0.0 space (was trying to establish myself as a 0.0 ratter) after close to an hour journey that culminated in my being attacked and ultimately destroyed by an unruly gate camp.
I made the mistake of sitting next to the gate and defending myself thinking that I could always jump back if things went south. Well they did go south and I learned that there's a 60 second cooldown after any aggressive action before you can use a jump gate. Even though I certainly didn't start that fight the Eve world didn't care, I couldn't jump to safety. That's a mistake I will only make once I assure you. (I know who you guys are and it may not be today or even next month, but rest assured, I'll find you)
Anyway, despite being completely PvE fitted with zero PvP experience I managed to take one of them with me as I went down. I am still recovering monetarily from that defeat in terms of my new Hurricane's fitting and hope to make another attempt within a week or two.
That said, the fear that the Eve world instills is strangely comforting...
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Apoctasy
The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.06.30 17:12:00 -
[46]
I recently lost Recon Ships V due to not having a clone updated.
It hurt. A lot.
Keep it in game.
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Messoroz
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Posted - 2010.06.30 17:34:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Messoroz on 30/06/2010 17:36:08 Edited by: Messoroz on 30/06/2010 17:35:46 Edited by: Messoroz on 30/06/2010 17:35:02 My god, the noobs are revolting!
First the *****ing about level 5 missions being put into low sec, then the rumors of removing learning skills and buying sp, and now removing the sp loss from a bad clone....
Soon they will want skills not to apply bonuses to ships and modules because its unfair older players can **** them.
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Joe Bonanno
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Posted - 2010.06.30 19:22:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Joe Bonanno on 30/06/2010 19:23:32 I could understand all the people saying that it's a good thing if skills at V only took at most a week. As it stands, losing over a month of skills is ridiculous. CCP should put it so that if you lost your SP because you didn't have the proper clone up you would still lose the SP but you could learn it at a faster rate in the same manner as a new character learns skills for the first little bit, save for the SP that you lost. That way PVP is encouraged more by lessening the risk, but the risk is still enough to penalize poor play.
edit grammar
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.30 19:30:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Joe Bonanno I could understand all the people saying that it's a good thing if skills at V only took at most a week. As it stands, losing over a month of skills is ridiculous.
Again, it's a matter of complicating the logistics of campaigns. The mechanics for updating your clones is dead simple and there is really no reason not to have an up-to-date clone.
āhowever, this means that your corp/alliance needs to have a good transportation chain for people going ų they need to have figured out a way to get the soldiers back onto the field. It's really quite an elegant solution to having some kind of punishment for groups who can't organise this kind of support function. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Lost Greybeard
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Posted - 2010.06.30 20:09:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Marlona Sky In all honesty, the losing skill points is such a stupid feature of this game. It should be removed along with having to update your clone.
It actually makes plenty of sense in terms of game mechanics. It provides a roof to clone-rushing people (since you'd eventually run out of isk to renew the clone) and encounters. It provides a market-based context for how a "home base" is established. It makes the medical bays not completely pointless after you've bought all your jump clones.
Admittedly, it doesn't really make sense in the roleplaying context. Either you're FTL-comm linked to your medical clone, in which case you shouldn't need to update it at all, or you're not linked to your clone, in which case every time you're podded you should lose all skill points gained since your last update. Eh, whatever, if I can live with space-ships behaving absolutely nothing like space-ships (hint, no significant drag in outer space to cause things like maximum velocities) for the purposes of keeping combatants in the same frame of reference, I can deal with cloning procedures being illogical.
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Drenan
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.06.30 20:10:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Apoctasy I recently lost Recon Ships V due to not having a clone updated.
It hurt. A lot.
Keep it in game.
Hmm...I bet you tighten your cilice a notch every time you log on?
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Kastigar Antarius
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Posted - 2010.06.30 20:17:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Shemmy
Originally by: Penjual Sayur
Originally by: Nisanthro
Originally by: Jedi Stallion is anyone actually in favor of losing sp if forgetting to update your clone?
Yes.
Yes
Yes.
Yes
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.06.30 20:34:00 -
[53]
Hurf Durf people keep missing the point.
Losing implants/etc when you get podded serves a game purpose, it ties into the whole risk v. reward thing, etc.
Clone upgrades... Just ends up being another chore you have to remember to do once in a while. Doesn't really serve any purpose. About punishing and keeping stupid/unprepared players away... Should CCP make you solve a math problem everytime you try to undock? Because that's pretty much the same thing. An extra step, an extra chore in your routine.
The point about keeping the Med Bay important and adding that whole logistical challenge is really the only legitimate reason I can think of to have the whole clone mechanic in the game. But then again, you need a Med Bay to wake up in after you get podded anyways soo....
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Squirrel Team
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Posted - 2010.06.30 20:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nabiah Edited by: Nabiah on 29/06/2010 13:17:02 In Game, you can build ships but you can loose them. You can farm ISK but you can loose it. Everything you can build in game you can loose.
The issue is that you cannot build SP in game as a character. You can even buy learning implants but you can loose them. then you can buy it again. you can buy your ships back. you can buy your Player owned station back. But you cannot buy your lost Skillpoint back because it is a OOC (out of character) value. its something you get from the out-of-game fact that you are a costumer of a company that provides game time which you buy with your RL cash. And this is the core of the issue. No other loss has consequences out of the EVE universe but this does. It actualy affects the player out of game concerning time investment without giving you an In-game chance to recover it as you are given in ships, ISk, implants, etc.
There are other MMOG where players loose SP on death too. And thats probably where CCP got the idea. But in those MMOG games players get SP from their kills and Not from their commercial relation with CCP.
You are paying to be allowed entrance into EVE world and getting SP over time. the SP you get are part of the commercial deal you make with CCP.
Having a game mechanism that takes SP from you without giving you the game mechanism to recover it (like you can with ISK and stuff) is like making a RL deal where you get robed a share of what you have agreed.
The Skillpoint loss from being poded affects you as a CCP costomer more then EVE pilots. And this is bad policy, bad game design, bad marketing strategy, bad idea, bad commercial ethic And a GREAT SCAM. IF there is to be a penalty for IN-Game action, it should concern IN-game consequence.
We cannot kill rats to get SP back like in other MMOG with SP death penalty. In EVE you can only pay for more game time where you will get the same SP you had already payed for.
STOP SCAMMING, FIX IT NOW !
@Nablah: Please, read this and FIX IT NOW!
Cheers, KB
=vinur allra manna
MetaGaming |
Nabiah
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Posted - 2010.07.01 10:28:00 -
[55]
Originally by: KaarBaak
Originally by: Nabiah Edited by: Nabiah on 29/06/2010 13:17:02 In Game, you can build ships but you can loose them. You can farm ISK but you can loose it. Everything you can build in game you can loose.
The issue is that you cannot build SP in game as a character. You can even buy learning implants but you can loose them. then you can buy it again. you can buy your ships back. you can buy your Player owned station back. But you cannot buy your lost Skillpoint back because it is a OOC (out of character) value. its something you get from the out-of-game fact that you are a costumer of a company that provides game time which you buy with your RL cash. And this is the core of the issue. No other loss has consequences out of the EVE universe but this does. It actualy affects the player out of game concerning time investment without giving you an In-game chance to recover it as you are given in ships, ISk, implants, etc.
There are other MMOG where players loose SP on death too. And thats probably where CCP got the idea. But in those MMOG games players get SP from their kills and Not from their commercial relation with CCP.
You are paying to be allowed entrance into EVE world and getting SP over time. the SP you get are part of the commercial deal you make with CCP.
Having a game mechanism that takes SP from you without giving you the game mechanism to recover it (like you can with ISK and stuff) is like making a RL deal where you get robed a share of what you have agreed.
The Skillpoint loss from being poded affects you as a CCP costomer more then EVE pilots. And this is bad policy, bad game design, bad marketing strategy, bad idea, bad commercial ethic And a GREAT SCAM. IF there is to be a penalty for IN-Game action, it should concern IN-game consequence.
We cannot kill rats to get SP back like in other MMOG with SP death penalty. In EVE you can only pay for more game time where you will get the same SP you had already payed for.
STOP SCAMMING, FIX IT NOW !
@Nablah: Please, read this and FIX IT NOW!
Cheers, KB
Spelling fixed. Thank you KB
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DuKackBoon
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Posted - 2010.07.01 10:54:00 -
[56]
I am indeed for the loss of SP.
And for starters: You only pay for the server access, that's about it. Your account, your char, your SP, your stuff isn't yours, it's CCP's. In other words: RTFM, also RTFEULA.
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omgevenmoarfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.07.01 11:03:00 -
[57]
Edited by: omgevenmoarfreemoniez on 01/07/2010 11:03:10 HTFU U DESRVE 2 LOSE SP 4 BEIN A **** PVPER AND SUCKING SO BAD THAT U GOT PODDED WITOT A CLONE LOLOLOLOL ANY NUB KNOWS HOW 2 UPDATE THER CLONE LOL EXCEPT U U SUCK BALLS I THINK CCP SHOULD MAKE IT SO THAT WHEN U GET PODDED WITHOUT A CLONE U LOSE ALL UR SP AND ALL UR REMAINING SUB TIME AND U HAVE TO RESUB OH AND YOU GET A 60 DAY IP BAN SO U CAN GB2WOW LOL BTW WHEN THAT HAPPENS CAN I HAS UR STUFF CAUSE I BET U WILL GET PODDED RALLY QUICK U SUCKY NOOB UA RE RLY **** AT PVP U KNOW IN FACT CCP SHOULD JUST BAN U AND GIVE ME ALL UR STUFF AND ALL UR SP AND THEN I WILL BE 1% RICHER BECAUSE UR A POOR LOSER AND I AM SO MOTHER****ING RICH LOL BUT I SHOULD GET UR STUFF ANYWAY CAS I DESERV IT MOAR THEN U!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND WHEN U LOSE A SHIP U SHOULD HAVE TO PAY RL MONEY TO PAY FOR IT LIKE ONE HUNDRED DOLLERSZ FOR A VAGA OR SOEMTHING CAUSE U DERSVE THAT FOR LOSING UR SHIP THAT WIL TEECH U TO LOSE SHIPS ROFL BUT I BET U WOULD KEEP PLAYING ANYWAY CAUSE UR SAD AND I AM NOT BUT I DONT LOSE SHIPS ANYWAY CAUSE I AM AWESOME AND I AM AWESOME IN RL TOO AND **** WAS SO CASH BUT UR **** WAS JUST **** SO STFU AND HTFU AND GTFO OF MY EVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RANT OVER.
/sarcasm
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Dr Karsun
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.01 11:06:00 -
[58]
Well, I never lost SP because of a clone...
The thing is these things are dirt cheap... So it's just a useless feature imo, they should either be very expensive to buy so people have to think if they want to buy an expensive high sp clone, or there should be an option to set 'automatically upgrade clone' or just get rid of this feature.
Agreed, although this should be in the features and ideas discussion?
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DuKackBoon
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Posted - 2010.07.01 11:25:00 -
[59]
By that logic, taxes, science & industry fees, transaction fees, etc. All should go :P
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.01 11:32:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Aerilis Clone upgrades... Just ends up being another chore you have to remember to do once in a while. Doesn't really serve any purpose.
It provides strategic value to certain systems, routes and stations. The "chore" is very minor (to the point where some apparently easily forget it), but still serves an important purpose in strategising your campaigns. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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