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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:34:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Cpt Branko The module itself is just fine on non-angel ships.
angel ships are OP not the module. /thread
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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.13 01:43:00 -
[2]
1. CCP overbuffs Angel ships. 2. Angel ships can fit hilariously OP fits with little tradeoff. 3. FOTM Angel ship flyers now complain modules that are fine on other ships should be nerfed instead of acknowledging Angel ships are OP and they should be nerfed instead.
Objective much?
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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.13 06:17:00 -
[3]
5 low slots + 5 mid slots + 437 CPU/1375 PG ON TOP of vaga-speed, big drone bay and super bonuses! means a complete field day to fit every kind of broken whacked-out fit you can imagine.
even if this ECM burst fit is not OP, with that kind of huge fitting room, another OP Cynabal fit will easily come along to take its place. count on it.
extreme favoritism has been shown to Angel ships in the pirate ship buff. in giving them far less fitting limits and better specs than other ships. time for them to be brought back in line.
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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.14 01:59:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Taudia Edited by: Taudia on 13/04/2010 09:00:15
Cynabals are pretty OP as I see it. Personally, I think the nano-ing capabilities of ships like the Ishtar, the Curse, the Gila or the vagabond is plenty and difficult enough to deal with if the pilot is capable. I am not an expert on nano but it seems to me that the cynabal is better in some ways than the ships I just mentioned, if not nearly strictly better than vagabonds. Though I suspect that keeping this particular ship from being very much like a Vagabond or a Hurricane will be difficult, but it is frustrating to deal with ships I basically have to be lucky to counter.
Driving off nanoships is generally speaking easy (unless it's a Curse or something, where only epic fail from the pilot will save you or landing on it sub 10km which is again epic fail from the pilot).
Killing them is not as trivial, but you've actually got good odds of doing this in a Hurricane if you play your cards right. It's certainly not a big deal to catch most Vagabonds out there, but the Vagabond has such shoddy agility in comparison to the Cynabal. In theory the Cynabal should be much much more difficult to catch, but as never actually had a Cynabal try to fight me, can't really speak from personal experience.
Cynabals are a totally different kettle of tea from Vagas. Vagas nano/GTFO ability is balanced by 1) its squishiness/weakness if it does get careless. So maybe out of 10 times you engage one you kill it 2/3 times. 2) no space in the mids for dual prop/ECM burst. 3) its weak DPS making it a challenge to attack larger ships, meaning need for target selection. and that you can chase it off.
Cynabals completely removed ALL THREE OF THESE BALANCING FACTORS. A Vaga that you cannot chase off due to higher gank/tank, that you cannot even catch if it is careless (because of dual prop/ECM burst)? OVERPOWERED. So of course everyone flies them as it is Vaga on steroids without the downside. I wander every region in 0.0 regularly and have seen the variety of ships on scanner more and more replaced by Cynabals and Dramiels. Naturally FOTM flyers and KM farmers will defend their ship, but it is causing the game to become very monotonous in terms of ship variety.
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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.14 03:18:00 -
[5]
in addition, i see lots of multiple dramiel/cynabal teams around. they are far far more dangerous than the inty/vaga teams that previously were around as they have much more DPS to kill more stuff quicker and much more GTFO ability. basically the OPness of the individual ships are compounded in groups and in combination.
people can pretend Cynabal/Dramiel are not OP all they want, but in the end the ridiculous amount they are being used says all anyone needs to know. they are OP with respect to other ships and need a nerf to preserve the balance of power between ships.
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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.14 03:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Besides, it seems like you defeated one of these horribly overpowered dualprop FOTM dps monsters in your Jaguar... doesnt seem that overpowered to me. Fact of the matter is, it dies to a cleverly flown ship just like anything else, the annoying part is that they excel at choosing engagements, but get over it already, there will always be a ship that can do that.
shhh... i suck at PVP!
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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.14 05:22:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Darthewok on 14/04/2010 05:25:01
Originally by: Raimo
Originally by: Darthewok
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Besides, it seems like you defeated one of these horribly overpowered dualprop FOTM dps monsters in your Jaguar... doesnt seem that overpowered to me. Fact of the matter is, it dies to a cleverly flown ship just like anything else, the annoying part is that they excel at choosing engagements, but get over it already, there will always be a ship that can do that.
shhh... i suck at PVP!
Newsflash, the speedfit Dram just sucks solo :P
actually all my Dramiel kills are of new Dramiel pilots or weird fits. does not prove Dramiel is not OP. whereas experienced Dramiel pilots are pretty unbeatable 1v1.
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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.14 11:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Smabs
to be honest a lot of scanning in the busier areas is starting to show dramiel, dramiel, cynabal, dramiel, cynabal, cynabal etc.
yeah people can make whatever justification they want but in the end this ^^ shows what is happening. i don't like freaking encountering only the same 2 ships over and over again. its boring. nerf em back in line, let the skies be filled again with a variety of ships and more variation in PVP dynamics.
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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.15 02:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 15/04/2010 01:28:47 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 15/04/2010 01:28:02
Originally by: Darthewok A Vaga that you cannot chase off due to higher gank/tank, that you cannot even catch if it is careless (because of dual prop/ECM burst)?
Idk, I had one engage me the first time (ehp fit) and instead of doing the usual Vagabond trick (exploding) he got away in half hull
Damn faction ships and their armor/hull HP.
Definitely a lot sturdier ship when EHP fitted then a Vagabond, but it can't do all the things you say at the same time, you know? It's either got more EHP (except vs lasers) or has ecm burst or has dual prop (or sensor booster to combine with wcs, lol), can't do all three at the same time obviously.
ok, it can't do all 3 at once i suppose but to do just 1 or 2 of the 3 already raises its survival rate ridiculously i understand people enjoying hum-drumiel/cy-no-balls for a while and benefiting from them but this is getting old
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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.16 02:36:00 -
[10]
Re: all this talk about cost justifying a better ship,
Cost is a lousy balancing factor. a) t2 and pirate prices fluctuate unpredictably so the whole pirate/t2 balance keeps varying. b) the average level of wealth in EVE keeps increasing so cost becomes less and less a barrier. c) if you end up with ships with super high survivability eg. 1 to 50 loss ratio like Dramiel/Cynabal, the cost becomes a small issue as it seldom dies anyway. d) having a much better pirate ship than the t2 competitor turns EVE into a pay-for-victory rather than a player skill game. in other words, PVP becomes an elitist thing where you have to buy the top pirate ships just to compete. this is perverting game balance mechanics of diminishing returns to ISK and returns to player skill.
So do realize this when you are thinking i pay lots of money, i should get a much better ship. you are thinking pvp is determined by ISK not by skill any more.
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