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Gunnanmon
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.04.08 14:47:00 -
[31]
How many people have more than 80m SP anyway? Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Exploding Tukey
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Posted - 2010.04.08 14:49:00 -
[32]
Number of people at over 100mil sp - hundreds Number of people over 80mil sp - thousands Number of people under 20mil sp - a hundred thousand? two hundred?
who do you think would benefit from fixes more, people just starting to play before they are hooked or people who played for so many years and giving them a new ship would change much for the overall eve, but make it easier to grief noobs with :D
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.04.08 15:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Exploding Tukey Number of people at over 100mil sp - hundreds Number of people over 80mil sp - thousands Number of people under 20mil sp - a hundred thousand? two hundred?
who do you think would benefit from fixes more, people just starting to play before they are hooked or people who played for so many years and giving them a new ship would change much for the overall eve, but make it easier to grief noobs with :D
also giving those newbs somthing cool to look forward to, rather than just longer and longer skills.
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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2010.04.08 16:58:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Exploding Tukey Number of people at over 100mil sp - hundreds Number of people over 80mil sp - thousands Number of people under 20mil sp - a hundred thousand? two hundred?
who do you think would benefit from fixes more, people just starting to play before they are hooked or people who played for so many years and giving them a new ship would change much for the overall eve, but make it easier to grief noobs with :D
What do you mean with "fixes" ? I'm talking about skills and possibilities to improve. Currently the average Eve player stays subscribed for less than a year. CCP concentrates on getting more people to the game, but doesn't do enough to keep those who play for years interested. I can only speak of my self, the day i maxed the last ship of the pool of ships that i use, Eve lost a lot of it's appeal. From then i knew that it wasn't possible to improve anymore, no way to become better. I miss the expectation of becoming more powerful. Even if it was 2% more damage for 1 month training there was a thrill of anticipation. Now it isn't there anymore and it's getting boring, i want it back.
Btw. people who started to play early 2006 and trained their skills effective are over 80m SP today, so it's way more than a few thousands of them.
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2010.04.08 17:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o I can only speak of my self, the day i maxed the last ship of the pool of ships that i use, Eve lost a lot of it's appeal. From then i knew that it wasn't possible to improve anymore, no way to become better. I miss the expectation of becoming more powerful. Even if it was 2% more damage for 1 month training there was a thrill of anticipation. Now it isn't there anymore and it's getting boring, i want it back.
There's more than one way to improve yourself without having maxed gunnery skills or fancy bling on your ship. As many people have told me, and as I have experienced personally, skill points and equipment are only part of the equation.
Although, I suppose that if you have trained everything possible, you might as well start a new character and fill up that queue so that you can have that sense of accomplishment that only a fresh, newly trained skill can bring!
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.04.08 18:15:00 -
[36]
I like the idea of a veteran rewards system or program, or even a one shot deal based on how long you've been playing.
I keep hearing some people here saying that giving the older players a fancy ship isn't fair, but this isn't WoW.. it's not like the ship binds to you when you pick it up. A few vets out there will be happy to part ways with their shiny new veteran ship... for a fee of course.
Not only that, but having veteran rewards also gives the new players something to look forward to: a killmail of a veteran in his shiny new veteran ship... cause the last I checked, everything a player can fly, can be blowed up.
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.04.08 21:18:00 -
[37]
I think CCP's continued insistence in defining nul sec as being 'end game' despite it just being one of many ways to play the game no matter how many SP's you have indicates they consider that is the reward. Of course this assumes we all want to fly Titans and join Alliances.
I'm fairly new but I would not have an issue at all with some players getting a loyalty reward. As someone said, jealousy of what others have belongs in another game, not EVE where effort and loyalty should be rewarded. I don't agree all the patches have been about new players though, far from it, the last patch did precisely nothing for me at all which I was fine about. The Op is being VERY selective which does not help their argument at all as it's obvious and messes up the argument for rewards. That may also explain the adverse responses to an otherwise reasonable request.
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bff Jill
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Posted - 2010.04.09 00:15:00 -
[38]
Edited by: bff Jill on 09/04/2010 00:17:22 Ive been playing this game since december 04, and my current 'main' has less than 3mil skill points
I honestly wish there were fewer skills. Any skill that everyone needs to train should just be removed and the bonuses applied automatically.
Ive trained up my learnings like... 6 times over the years on my 'main', painful.
EDIT: And my current account is only a few months old.
Honestly some stupid vet reward would just **** me off >< I quit CoH for that, playing that game for ages too, due to how i have my account and characters set up i didn't get anything fancy.
Now, if you could somehow.. use credit card records to make these trans-account bonuses thereby giving me a shiny veteran ship.. then screw those nublars and hand it over!
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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2010.04.09 00:24:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Zartrader I think CCP's continued insistence in defining nul sec as being 'end game' despite it just being one of many ways to play the game no matter how many SP's you have indicates they consider that is the reward. Of course this assumes we all want to fly Titans and join Alliances.
I'm fairly new but I would not have an issue at all with some players getting a loyalty reward. As someone said, jealousy of what others have belongs in another game, not EVE where effort and loyalty should be rewarded. I don't agree all the patches have been about new players though, far from it, the last patch did precisely nothing for me at all which I was fine about. The Op is being VERY selective which does not help their argument at all as it's obvious and messes up the argument for rewards. That may also explain the adverse responses to an otherwise reasonable request.
I didn't ask for loyalty rewards, just additional skills that we can train that contribute to our gameplay (and not training stuff we never use). Also i didn't say that every patch contains something for the newbs. It's about where CCP focuses in order to build up their playerbase. Currently we have ~300k accounts with an average playtime of below 1 year.
---new players--->[300.000 active accounts]---leaving players--->
In my opinion CCP concentrates too much on the green arrow, and not so about the red one. Maintaining a sense of progression is vital in MMORPGs and could keep more vets excited and continuing playing the game.
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Arderich
Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen A.R.K.
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Posted - 2010.04.09 01:42:00 -
[40]
I currently have 130m skillpoints. Amarr only skills. I refuse to train other races skills. During the last year I have trained lots of dumb science skills etc because of attribute remapping. I had to go for intelligence/memory skills because gunnery (lasers only), missiles and most of my ship skills are already maxed out.
Yes, there are still plenty of skills I could train (veldspar refining etc) but I think the vast majority of skills I have trained during the past 2 years I will never use. Next skill in my queue is jump portal generation 5 and I am not a great fan of black ops. The Redeemer is not really my favourite ship.
CCP already had shown a solution. T3 skills you could train and loose and retrain and loose in an infinite loop. That's a lazy solution. Bad game design.
I am not looking for the 'i pwn u all' skills but after training archeology, hacking and whatnot it would be fine to train something I could really use. Give me master gunnery skills. Rank 30. The first 4 levels give nothing, level 5 gives 1% more damage. I would train it. It would be better than veldspar refining.
What's the matter of training skills if we all have the very same skills in the end? And this 'end' is reached pretty fast. With attribute remapping you can be a maxed out battleship pilot in a ridiculous short amount of time. We need a lot more skills. Specialization is only something special if not everybody without exception is 'specialized' in the very same skills.
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Solid Star
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Posted - 2010.04.09 02:12:00 -
[41]
Try starting a new char from scratch. A ton of fun picking and choosing the skills you want.
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Arderich
Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen A.R.K.
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Posted - 2010.04.09 02:27:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Solid Star Try starting a new char from scratch. A ton of fun picking and choosing the skills you want.
On two of my four accounts I am training and using all 3 chars.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.09 03:38:00 -
[43]
Quote: I like the idea of a veteran rewards system or program, or even a one shot deal based on how long you've been playing.
You have just described the skill points system. Have a nice day. This is clearly a signature. |
DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2010.04.09 06:50:00 -
[44]
If CCP wanted to keep vets interested, they'd make the endgame harder. Its incredibly easy to have your wealth grow over time as you play, with no particular increase in skill or effort. Being able to rise to the top is great, but so is being able to hit rock bottom.
A lot of consequence and fun in warfare is thrown out the window once you pass a certain threshold and all options are effectively on the table. Because everyone always has the capability to do what they want regardless of circumstances, no one has the ability to control or affect others.
At best, wars devolve into one side getting bored or annoyed enough to go away - not capitulate or surrender, just disperse or scatter. Corps and alliances aren't worth protecting because they don't really offer the individual things they cann't already get themselves.
Bit melodramatic I know, but thats how I roll at the hour of the wolf ¼_¼
But to put it another way, I guess it would be keeping their promise/vision of giving power to the players.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.04.09 07:20:00 -
[45]
Originally by: bff Jill Any skill that everyone needs to train should just be removed and the bonuses applied automatically.
There is no such skill.
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Vertical
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.04.09 12:41:00 -
[46]
CCP has to treat everyone equal. Whether your a vet or newbie.
That makes sense because vets are the one who 'helped/financed/bug-fixed/made/...(your five cents)' EvE Online what it is today!
So don't think vets would get 'anything more' then anyone else. Period!
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2010.04.09 12:53:00 -
[47]
tbh id be happy with anything, weather it benifitted me ingame or not, perhaps just access to a title in front of your name, every year you get an additional title unlocked. Militery based would be a start, perhaps confusing against actual player corp/allience roles but heh, better than absolutly nothing, not even a "thanks for giving us money for 7 years you mug" reward t shirt.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.04.09 13:26:00 -
[48]
Last thing this game needs is to widen the gap between new players and older players You shouldn't be made automatically uber just 'cause you've been playing the game longer - the fact that relative newbies can compete in PvP with older players is what makes EVE different from 99% of MMOs out there
- Malyutka (The Virus) - |
PhalHell
Minmatar Proview Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.09 17:10:00 -
[49]
I past the magic 100M SP's last week and it makes you thinking.
From March 2004 till March 2010 = Ç1080
CCP can give a nice ingame gimmick for that !
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Demolishar
G-Force Enterprises Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:26:00 -
[50]
Boohoo, you have a massive skillpoint advantage, can fly almost every ship in the game perfectly... but the noobs get 1.6M SP at double training speed! That is like SO UNFAIR. They should actually have their skillpoint gain NERFED so that you can pwn them for longer, right?
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:29:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Zartrader on 09/04/2010 18:29:16
Originally by: Rawr Cristina Last thing this game needs is to widen the gap between new players and older players You shouldn't be made automatically uber just 'cause you've been playing the game longer - the fact that relative newbies can compete in PvP with older players is what makes EVE different from 99% of MMOs out there
Well it should only be some gimmick that's fun but not game affecting, like a title or something (as was said). Its not really what EVE does though and other games are full of this stuff, it is quite lame if not done well.
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Aram Gishno
Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:57:00 -
[52]
Personally, I'd be happy with racing stripes on my pod |
Nyveg
Hyperborea Re
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Posted - 2010.04.09 19:04:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Demolishar Boohoo, you have a massive skillpoint advantage, can fly almost every ship in the game perfectly... but the noobs get 1.6M SP at double training speed! That is like SO UNFAIR. They should actually have their skillpoint gain NERFED so that you can pwn them for longer, right?
Yu, dude, are an asshat, troll, missed the point and deserve to be steamrolled by the South.
Op was about, say, you only want to fly one race. And you wnt to pvp. And you want to do so sub-cap. In that case you run out of options on the long run in, let me guess, 2.5 years? Op has a point, maybe introduce some rediculously hard to train skills that give boost to one race only. For the vets. Or lol let me get crzy introduce some **** that lets you channel skillpoints into it for some kind of boost like overheat or whatnot.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.04.09 19:06:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nyveg
Op was about, say, you only want to fly one race. And you wnt to pvp. And you want to do so sub-cap. In that case you run out of options on the long run in, let me guess, 2.5 years?
So if I insist on self-imposing 3 heavy limititations on my trainable skills, I'll have a limited skillset that I can train?
That's awful!
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Arderich
Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen A.R.K.
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Posted - 2010.04.09 19:34:00 -
[55]
Arf, the OP wasn't talking about rewards or gimmicks and I am not asking for a Jove ship. This thread is about a limited amount of 'useful' skills to train for. You can be very quickly maxed out in a given field f.e. become a maxed out battleship pilot. One year and you can become competetive. I know it because I have other chars as well. My latest char currently still doesn't have 6m skillpoints. In a year I will use that char for combat. There will be no disadvantages, only cheaper clones. I admit this char will have less options but less options is not a disadvantage if your only goal is f.e to become a maxed out Abaddon pilot.
Once you have reached this point there is no more advancement but only several sidesteps f.e. training the same skills for other races. Now I have reached the limit of useful sidesteps because I refuse to train other races. Instead soon my only option will become to train annoying skills such as veldspar refining. That's no joke. I mean I already have trained Amarr Titan just because it's an amarrian combat skill, not because I ever intend to use one. Next skill in my queue is jump portal generation level 5, a rank 14 skill. I can promise it won't hurt a single noob. Even more so because I most likely will never ever use it.
I already said am not asking for 'i wtfpwn u' skills. I am asking for a better game design with more longterm goals. The number of vets increases and I am just one of the first to reach this point because I obviously started 2003 and because I refuse to train other races. But I assume in the next month, next year the number of complaints will increase because more and more people will reach this limit.
As a noob in your first 2-3 days you can become very annoying to a vet with more than 100m skillpoints just because your using a tracking disruptor or ecm on him. That's ok. That's what makes Eve interesting compared to other games such as wow where a level 5 char has no chance against a level 60 char. That's one reason why I am playing Eve since the very beginning. Every pilot matters. But I can tell you it is frustrating to make no more advancement and it is even more annoying if you run out of useful side carreers to train for. I am forced to train skills I never intend to use. This is bad game design. The game is designed in a way that people quit after a while. The only solution CCP provided so far was t3 ship skills which you can train and loose and retrain and loose again in an infinite loop. That's *******s.
Now some suggestions to improve the situation. A good example are t2 weapons. T2 weapons compared to t1 weapons are incredible overpowered from my point of view. I mean the difference between a t2 pulse laser with scorch ammo compared to a t1 pulse with radio crystals is immense. There are worlds between them. New players for a good reason are afraid about such a gap and because they don't know better they seem to think vets have an uncatchable advantage. I think a heavy nerf to t2 weapons and ammo would be ok. This would open the way for a tiny bit more powerful t3 weapons (less powerful than the current t2). Vets would have more skills to train for and the gap between young and old players would be smaller than it currently is.
Take this example to the extreme and we could add tons of new skills into the game. Instead of everybody flying around with all the same skills we could have real specilization because we would have many more skills to train for and at the same time the gap between noobs and vets would not become wider.
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Pesadel0
Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.09 19:43:00 -
[56]
I would be a happy bunny if they decreased my clone cost :D
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Nyveg
Hyperborea Re
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Posted - 2010.04.09 19:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Pesadel0 I would be a happy bunny if they decreased my clone cost :D
That aslo fisure. I posted in that thread.
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Nyveg
Hyperborea Re
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Posted - 2010.04.09 19:57:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Nyveg
Op was about, say, you only want to fly one race. And you wnt to pvp. And you want to do so sub-cap. In that case you run out of options on the long run in, let me guess, 2.5 years?
So if I insist on self-imposing 3 heavy limititations on my trainable skills, I'll have a limited skillset that I can train?
That's awful!
Yea. I don't want your stuff.
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Eaton d'Sorder
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Posted - 2010.04.09 20:07:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Mal Plox Edited by: Mal Plox on 07/04/2010 20:12:49 I, too, would like people to care more about the vets.
After all, veterinarians are playing a vital role in our every daiRy lives.
fixed it for you
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iudex
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Posted - 2010.04.09 21:03:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Arderich Arf, the OP wasn't talking about rewards or gimmicks and I am not asking for a Jove ship. This thread is about a limited amount of 'useful' skills to train for. You can be very quickly maxed out in a given field f.e. become a maxed out battleship pilot. One year and you can become competetive. I know it because I have other chars as well. My latest char currently still doesn't have 6m skillpoints. In a year I will use that char for combat. There will be no disadvantages, only cheaper clones. I admit this char will have less options but less options is not a disadvantage if your only goal is f.e to become a maxed out Abaddon pilot.
Once you have reached this point there is no more advancement but only several sidesteps f.e. training the same skills for other races. Now I have reached the limit of useful sidesteps because I refuse to train other races. Instead soon my only option will become to train annoying skills such as veldspar refining. That's no joke. I mean I already have trained Amarr Titan just because it's an amarrian combat skill, not because I ever intend to use one. Next skill in my queue is jump portal generation level 5, a rank 14 skill. I can promise it won't hurt a single noob. Even more so because I most likely will never ever use it.
I already said am not asking for 'i wtfpwn u' skills. I am asking for a better game design with more longterm goals. The number of vets increases and I am just one of the first to reach this point because I obviously started 2003 and because I refuse to train other races. But I assume in the next month, next year the number of complaints will increase because more and more people will reach this limit.
As a noob in your first 2-3 days you can become very annoying to a vet with more than 100m skillpoints just because your using a tracking disruptor or ecm on him. That's ok. That's what makes Eve interesting compared to other games such as wow where a level 5 char has no chance against a level 60 char. That's one reason why I am playing Eve since the very beginning. Every pilot matters. But I can tell you it is frustrating to make no more advancement and it is even more annoying if you run out of useful side carreers to train for. I am forced to train skills I never intend to use. This is bad game design. The game is designed in a way that people quit after a while. The only solution CCP provided so far was t3 ship skills which you can train and loose and retrain and loose again in an infinite loop. That's *******s.
Now some suggestions to improve the situation. A good example are t2 weapons. T2 weapons compared to t1 weapons are incredible overpowered from my point of view. I mean the difference between a t2 pulse laser with scorch ammo compared to a t1 pulse with radio crystals is immense. There are worlds between them. New players for a good reason are afraid about such a gap and because they don't know better they seem to think vets have an uncatchable advantage. I think a heavy nerf to t2 weapons and ammo would be ok. This would open the way for a tiny bit more powerful t3 weapons (less powerful than the current t2). Vets would have more skills to train for and the gap between young and old players would be smaller than it currently is.
Take this example to the extreme and we could add tons of new skills into the game. Instead of everybody flying around with all the same skills we could have real specilization because we would have many more skills to train for and at the same time the gap between noobs and vets would not become wider.
100% signed, that's exactly the same way I see it (and I'm FAR from having 130 mil. SP).
_____________________________________________________ My skills // Faction Standings: Serpentis +8.02 / Angel Cartel +9.24 / Gallente Federation -10.00 |
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