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Squat King
MegaTech Solutions
0
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Posted - 2012.06.29 13:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
its 2012 and we still have local? wtf is wrong with you!! just remove it. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
121
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Posted - 2012.06.29 14:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
As has been stated in many threads already, there are reasons why they would need to have better methods of intel gathering than they do now to successfully remove local without pissing lots of people off.
You've seen the threads where people complain about cloakies in their system (most inaccurately complain about AFK cloakies but what they're really complaining about is that there is a cloakie in system so they can't do things).
So if they remove local but don't add another method of intel gathering that is effectively the same or similar all nullsec bears will whine, not to mention others.
If you want local removed, how about coming up with an alternative intel system rather than just ranting about removing local? |
Squat King
MegaTech Solutions
0
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Posted - 2012.06.29 16:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
"So if they remove local but don't add another method of intel gathering that is effectively the same or similar all nullsec bears will whine, not to mention others."
you already have methods of Intel, you have cov-ops with probes, and the directional scanner, this alone should be good enough to gathering intel about hostile ships. you all-so have several good tracking fetures in map as well as locator agents.
instead of having a passive feature like local that does all the job for you,
so in a sense local ruins all the active aspects on methods of Intel gathering,
thats why it just need to be removed. theres nothing to add.
I do believe CCP has stated that they want a more active game, and those removing local is logical. |
Temmu Guerra
Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
71
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Posted - 2012.06.29 20:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
You saying dscan is useful oh how that makes me chuckle.
Dscan does not make it so you can replace local. Also do you expect a person to be on the gate 24/7 to know if you have reds in system? What happens if a cloak ship warps in on a mining fleet and cyno's in a bunch of ships. Dscan and probes aint gonna help you with that.
If you have a more valid idea I am all ears but until then gtfo... |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
359
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Posted - 2012.06.29 20:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
I threw an idea out to offer a solution to replace local intel.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112964&find=unread
This involves realistic effort from players to get intel, not the intel welfare system we now have spoon-feeding us half useless garbage. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
255
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Posted - 2012.06.29 21:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Squat King wrote:its 2012 and we still have local? wtf is wrong with you!! just remove it.
I believe it does have a place in high sec.. but I agree with it's removal in null sec.. and partal removal from low sec. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
359
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Posted - 2012.06.29 22:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:Squat King wrote:its 2012 and we still have local? wtf is wrong with you!! just remove it. I believe it does have a place in high sec.. but I agree with it's removal in null sec.. and partal removal from low sec. Maybe it does fit the high sec model, I can give you that aspect has logic.
But in low and null sec? Players are supposed to make more effort in these areas, not trust blindly in something meant to act as a social guide for who is available to chatter with in your system.
And then cry about how they don't say anything, and must be AFK. If you can't find em, then they are cloaking too! The logic is so twisted behind this reasoning... Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Squat King
MegaTech Solutions
2
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Posted - 2012.07.01 14:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
You know you're right, it does make sense having local in high sec due to the concord scanning all pilots in the different systems,
but where the Empires have no control, 0.3 and lower it don't make sense, they should at-lest make all locals in 0.3 systems and bellow like the wormhole locals,
The sooner its removed the better
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Temai
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.01 15:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
my thoughtts are local should work as is in 1.0 down to 0.5 then in 0.5 - 0.3 it should have a much longer delay (like 5 -10 mins till it shows up) then in 0.3 to 0.1 add more to it makeing it take much longer so and then in 0.0 local should work like WH's unless you talk you dont show up
but thats my thought on it |
Aoyagi Haineko
Genuinely Exquisite Entities Society
0
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Posted - 2012.07.01 15:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yes, that would make nullsec solo explorers' lives so easy, right? And short. Being on site shooting rats and pinning other sites is already pretty busy without needing to keep an eye on dscan (which doesn't really help that much) and/or having a set of combat/deep space probes out along with core probes. Or mission runners, oh how happy would they be... |
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
571
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Posted - 2012.07.01 16:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Squat King wrote:its 2012 and we still have local? wtf is wrong with you!! just remove it. Maybe CCP don't think it should be removed? :iiam: Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub Like I Give A F--K
1390
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Posted - 2012.07.01 18:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aoyagi Haineko wrote:Yes, that would make nullsec solo explorers' lives so easy, right? And short. Being on site shooting rats and pinning other sites is already pretty busy without needing to keep an eye on dscan (which doesn't really help that much) and/or having a set of combat/deep space probes out along with core probes. Or mission runners, oh how happy would they be... Sorry but, what? I do exploration in low sec, in some of the busiest areas of the game, and can quite happily run and finish sites with 30+ other people in local.
Use directional, drop it down to <1AU. If someone shows up, warp off. As for mission runners, combat probes?
Whilst I do agree the issue isn't as clear cut as "just remove local", it is more or less a non-issue for mission runners and explorers. The issues with just removing local would come in the form of hot drop mechanics, people running anomalies, gate camps etc.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Aoyagi Haineko
Genuinely Exquisite Entities Society
0
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Posted - 2012.07.01 18:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Sorry but, what? I do exploration in low sec, in some of the busiest areas of the game, and can quite happily run and finish sites with 30+ other people in local.
Use directional, drop it down to <1AU. If someone shows up, warp off. As for mission runners, combat probes?
Whilst I do agree the issue isn't as clear cut as "just remove local", it is more or less a non-issue for mission runners and explorers. The issues with just removing local would come in the form of hot drop mechanics, people running anomalies, gate camps etc. How exactly does d-scan help with the incoming ship is cloaked? And how does it help unless I spam the "scan" button nearly constantly? For mission runners, expanded probe launcher is pretty CPU demanding.
And did you just compare lowsec to nullsec? |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub Like I Give A F--K
1390
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Posted - 2012.07.01 18:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aoyagi Haineko wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Sorry but, what? I do exploration in low sec, in some of the busiest areas of the game, and can quite happily run and finish sites with 30+ other people in local.
Use directional, drop it down to <1AU. If someone shows up, warp off. As for mission runners, combat probes?
Whilst I do agree the issue isn't as clear cut as "just remove local", it is more or less a non-issue for mission runners and explorers. The issues with just removing local would come in the form of hot drop mechanics, people running anomalies, gate camps etc. How exactly does d-scan help with the incoming ship is cloaked? And how does it help unless I spam the "scan" button nearly constantly? For mission runners, expanded probe launcher is pretty CPU demanding. And did you just compare lowsec to nullsec? Low sec is pretty similar to null sec for exploration and mission running, the only difference being that you shouldn't warp straight to station if local spikes, just in case they sent a bubbler there. Plus unless you use a T3 for scanning you might occasionally lose a cov ops scout every now and then.
But anyway, why on Earth would you fit an expanded probe launcher on your missioning ship? You don't need to launch combat probes yourself, just watch out for someone else launching them.
And d-scan helps because if the ship is cloaked, who cares about it? When it de-cloaks, you have a little over 6 seconds to warp off, or if it's a bomber you can just pop it. And that's assuming you didn't see it with the scout you should have had on the site entrance, or picked it up on directional when it de-cloaked to warp through the gates behind you.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Aoyagi Haineko
Genuinely Exquisite Entities Society
0
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Posted - 2012.07.01 19:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: Low sec is pretty similar to null sec for exploration and mission running, the only difference being that you shouldn't warp straight to station if local spikes, just in case they sent a bubbler there. Plus unless you use a T3 for scanning you might occasionally lose a cov ops scout every now and then.
But anyway, why on Earth would you fit an expanded probe launcher on your missioning ship? You don't need to launch combat probes yourself, just watch out for someone else launching them.
And d-scan helps because if the ship is cloaked, who cares about it? When it de-cloaks, you have a little over 6 seconds to warp off, or if it's a bomber you can just pop it. And that's assuming you didn't see it with the scout you should have had on the site entrance, or picked it up on directional when it de-cloaked to warp through the gates behind you.
The bubbles are not what I meant. What I meant is that people in nullsec favor the approach "This is hour space, we have sovereignty here, you are not blue, we hunt you down".
Why would I fit expanded probe launcher? It was you who suggested, or at least that's how that sounded. But yes, using directional scan to spot combat probes is possibly a valid tactic - for mission runners anyway. Although I did manage to pin a capsule with deep space probes, so guess it is not impossible to pin a battleship out of the dscan range. But that's just a speculation.
If the ship is cloaked, it can wait till I'm flying in the direction off to nowhere or when a rat scrambles me. Even if I did manage to instantly notice (between checking d-scan, probing, killing rats and trying to stay alive) an uncloaked ship and instantly started warping, which is extremely unlikely and possibly physically impossible, the cloaked ship (be it cov. ops, bomber or force recon) would have more than enough time to target me and wait for its buddies to arrive. Site entrance is at the same time all of the site (that applies to those I do). And again - solo. Additionally, it is possible to use acceleration gates without being decloaked. |
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries SRS.
205
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Posted - 2012.07.02 04:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
It doesn't really belong in HS either, wormholes, war, and entry systems all are affected by intel-wellfare as well |
Nyx Vega
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.02 10:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Squat King-its 2012 and we still have local? wtf is wrong with you!! just remove it.
ok..firstly....ur miners..if u have any..in ur corp/allience will hate u for it...secondly..if your such an awsome player...go to the local chat box..and close it....easy done , or just drag your chat box past the adge of your screen , but eventually you will use it , for looking to see who's in local and to open private chats..and when you do , you will know you were wrong!!..i agree that low/null sec should have a delayed time...as in 5 mins or so...just like wormholes.. |
Kadeyoo
BS And UNICORNS Inc Black Pearl Alliance
3
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Posted - 2012.07.02 10:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's 2012, and people still re-create topics that have been discussed so many times.
Deal with it.
If you don't like local, go into a wormhole. If that's too dangerous for you, stop being a hypocrite.
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Squat King
MegaTech Solutions
3
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Posted - 2012.07.02 14:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
The main issue is that Local makes the players using it passive. they wont use the Active Tools in the game. This makes the game into Easy mode, without pushing the space pilots to their potential, it makes space a safe haven, where you can just warp off and log off to be safe, its God mode, and it makes EvE allot more boring and dull than it has to be. |
ninjaholic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
105
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Posted - 2012.07.02 17:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Why not NOT remove local, and instead, remove idle players from local? The moment they move in space, they reappear in local. You simply won't know if you're flying in to a gate camp unless you're savvy. But they won't catch small ships anyway because of the gimped lock times. Unless you fly in to a tackler in which case you deserve it. AFK cloakers can still gather intel, since you won't know they're there for certain. It's true espionage. True stealth. If they move, miners see him appear in local and can prepare themselves, adding a sense of security, and lessening the fear of afk cloakers. And if they align and keep moving to prevent idle in local, you know they're doing it to disrupt the system. Whaddya think?
Support Eve's own built-in Battle-Recorder! |
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
364
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Posted - 2012.07.02 17:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
ninjaholic wrote:Why not NOT remove local, and instead, remove idle players from local? The moment they move in space, they reappear in local. You simply won't know if you're flying in to a gate camp unless you're savvy. But they won't catch small ships anyway because of the gimped lock times. Unless you fly in to a tackler in which case you deserve it. AFK cloakers can still gather intel, since you won't know they're there for certain. It's true espionage. True stealth. If they move, miners see him appear in local and can prepare themselves, adding a sense of security, and lessening the fear of afk cloakers. And if they align and keep moving to prevent idle in local, you know they're doing it to disrupt the system. Whaddya think? Wow.
Local telling people who is in system is weird already. Having it act as a gauge to measure activity makes it even more powerful.
Just set it so we can right click and warp to people listed, save everyone time hunting. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
mocrt
Krait Corp Fidelas Constans
2
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Posted - 2012.07.02 18:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Entered topic expecting a logical argument for the removal of local with some new ideas we haven't heard.
...
Left disapointed.
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Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub Like I Give A F--K
1402
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Posted - 2012.07.02 19:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Aoyagi Haineko wrote:The bubbles are not what I meant. What I meant is that people in nullsec favor the approach "This is hour space, we have sovereignty here, you are not blue, we hunt you down". Only in Sov null sec. Places like syndicate people will some times still operate with a neutral in local, at least they will for exploration and missions.
Aoyagi Haineko wrote:Why would I fit expanded probe launcher? It was you who suggested, or at least that's how that sounded. But yes, using directional scan to spot combat probes is possibly a valid tactic - for mission runners anyway. Although I did manage to pin a capsule with deep space probes, so guess it is not impossible to pin a battleship out of the dscan range. But that's just a speculation. No, I meant keeping an eye out for combats on directional. And I've never heard of anyone scanning down ships from >14AU with deep space scanner probes, so it's probably not possible. They are less than 25% the strength of combat probes, so it *might* be possible with virtues and max skills, but the chances are you'd still accidentally get a few probes within 14AU a few times.
You also probably wouldn't be able to flash scan with deep space probes, due to the low strength.
Aoyagi Haineko wrote:If the ship is cloaked, it can wait till I'm flying in the direction off to nowhere or when a rat scrambles me. Even if I did manage to instantly notice (between checking d-scan, probing, killing rats and trying to stay alive) an uncloaked ship and instantly started warping, which is extremely unlikely and possibly physically impossible, the cloaked ship (be it cov. ops, bomber or force recon) would have more than enough time to target me and wait for its buddies to arrive. Site entrance is at the same time all of the site (that applies to those I do). And again - solo. Additionally, it is possible to use acceleration gates without being decloaked. Very few rats scram in missions or exploration sites, even in the 10/10s it's generally just a few frigates that you can kill with one shot. A player would need to find the 10/10, wait inside (possibly for hours) then de-cloak at the right time, hope you don't pop them, and bring in the fleet you didn't spot that have also possibly been waiting for hours.
IIRC the 8/10 also has a few scrambling rats, but they are only in the last room. The 9/10 doesn't, but it's an un-gated escalation series and again, you'd see combat probes.
It is an unlikely scenario to the say the least, and that is coming from someone who both runs exploration sites and hunts targets in them. This is not a commonly used strategy, even in NPC null where it would probably currently work even with local.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
DODGE CITY
We are the few. -Silicon Heaven-
6
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Posted - 2012.07.02 20:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Squat King wrote:its 2012 and we still have local? wtf is wrong with you!! just remove it.
just minimize local window and you will no longer have to look at it alot of new players rely on local to ask for mission help and if they have to join a special channel and ask for help they probably wouldnt get it when they need it due to the distance the people in that channel would have to travel. if your worried about gankers watching for you to log in so they can blow your Hulk up my suggestion is to stay docked or ask local if there is any gankers in the system. if you get trolled after asking that means there is gankers waiting outside station for you
Troll Skill Lv3 GëíGêÜGëí |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub Like I Give A F--K
1402
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Posted - 2012.07.02 20:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
DODGE CITY wrote:Squat King wrote:its 2012 and we still have local? wtf is wrong with you!! just remove it. just minimize local window and you will no longer have to look at it alot of new players rely on local to ask for mission help and if they have to join a special channel and ask for help they probably wouldnt get it when they need it due to the distance the people in that channel would have to travel. if your worried about gankers watching for you to log in so they can blow your Hulk up my suggestion is to stay docked or ask local if there is any gankers in the system. if you get trolled after asking that means there is gankers waiting outside station for you I presume that even with local "removed", you would still be able to chat in local. Similar to WH local.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
DODGE CITY
We are the few. -Silicon Heaven-
6
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Posted - 2012.07.02 20:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:DODGE CITY wrote:Squat King wrote:its 2012 and we still have local? wtf is wrong with you!! just remove it. just minimize local window and you will no longer have to look at it alot of new players rely on local to ask for mission help and if they have to join a special channel and ask for help they probably wouldnt get it when they need it due to the distance the people in that channel would have to travel. if your worried about gankers watching for you to log in so they can blow your Hulk up my suggestion is to stay docked or ask local if there is any gankers in the system. if you get trolled after asking that means there is gankers waiting outside station for you I presume that even with local "removed", you would still be able to chat in local. Similar to WH local.
threes a ideal make it so players name doesn't show up for 5 minutes or until you type something in local channel to allow players a chance to pass through a system unseen
Troll Skill Lv3 GëíGêÜGëí |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub Like I Give A F--K
1402
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 20:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
DODGE CITY wrote:threes a ideal make it so players name doesn't show up for 5 minutes or until you type something in local channel to allow players a chance to pass through a system unseen
5 minute delay is pretty much the equivalent of no local, and as such broken for the same reasons.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
ninjaholic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
105
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Posted - 2012.07.02 21:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Why don't CCP have a "Wormhole Local" day and test out what it would be like? The majority of the players might even prefer it.
Support Eve's own built-in Battle-Recorder! |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub Like I Give A F--K
1403
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Posted - 2012.07.02 21:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
ninjaholic wrote:Why don't CCP have a "Wormhole Local" day and test out what it would be like? The majority of the players might even prefer it. Because if it was only done for 24 hours people just wouldn't PvE for 24 hours.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
ninjaholic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
105
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Posted - 2012.07.02 21:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
You're assuming that. I'm suggesting a practical experiment.
Support Eve's own built-in Battle-Recorder! |
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