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GKFC
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Posted - 2009.12.13 11:23:00 -
[1]
Hi all,
Just curious as to where this "one hour per day" maintenance came from? What happens?
Partly because it occurs at 10pm AU time... which is kind of prime time for us... yes I appreciate it has to affect someone.
Seems a little excessive to someone who has recently started the game that's all?
Cheers,
G. |
Avo Daith
Mentors Administration
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Posted - 2009.12.13 11:30:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Avo Daith on 13/12/2009 11:30:45 http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Downtime
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Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.12.13 11:38:00 -
[3]
Well this is easy... Do not let this rl ruin your eve in AU. Go to bed at dt.. easy.. wake up 3-4am and there are more friends to play. no problem
As for what they do.. some remaping and stuff, feed the hamsters, paint the new outposts. who knows
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.13 11:43:00 -
[4]
Originally by: CCP Mindstar [...]
How automated is the process?
Very! EVE Downtime willl run with no intervention if it is left alone. This includes automated cluster shut down, automatic DB jobs and an automatic startup.
What happens during downtime? What happens differently between a 15m downtime and a 1hr 15m one?
Downtime as required by EVE directly is to run some heavy database procedures - including ones that lock DB tables (which would crash TQ if they were done live). This includes things like re-seeding the market, and other assorted low-level stuff. Originally it was also required to restart the EVE server processes (nodes) on each machine to account for memory leaks on the server - however this is fast becoming a thing of the past.
That is what happens during a basic 15 - 20 minute downtime.
Additional to these, we have all sorts of manual database cleanup work that is done during downtime - more and more of which is being progressively moved to "online". This can often account for another 20 minutes during a normal day. We do numerous server side hotfixes which require some extra time (within the 1 hour window), and we often do re-configurations of the individual blade servers that make up the TQ cluster.
Are certain tasks handled on certain days ?
Without going into any detail at all... Yes.
What would happen if all of CCP came down with Jovian Flu? how long would the game last without them?
This would imply direct contact with one or more Jovians. We at CCP have calculated the risks of this, and the general consensus is that one Jovian would be sufficient to perform the day-to-day functions of CCP, as well as run a small country on the side.
There you go, save you the trouble of several clicks...
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We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.13 12:07:00 -
[5]
Whatever those guys above me said is wrong. This is what happens during DT: Linkage
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Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.13 22:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: GKFC Hi all,
Just curious as to where this "one hour per day" maintenance came from? What happens?
Partly because it occurs at 10pm AU time... which is kind of prime time for us... yes I appreciate it has to affect someone.
Seems a little excessive to someone who has recently started the game that's all?
Cheers,
G.
Lets face it, CCP hate Aussies? You get all that lovely sun and babes on the beach in 'Winter' while they freeze to death in permanent night on an island with sulphur puking out the pavements.
I think Aussies should get a special DT of 2 hours!
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GKFC
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Posted - 2009.12.14 14:43:00 -
[7]
Thanks for the replies.
So has there been talk of distributing the data across multiple clusters to reduce the necessity for daily downtime?
Weekly I could understand. Daily is rather intrusive?
Cheers,
G.
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Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.14 15:15:00 -
[8]
Originally by: GKFC Thanks for the replies.
So has there been talk of distributing the data across multiple clusters to reduce the necessity for daily downtime?
Weekly I could understand. Daily is rather intrusive?
Cheers,
G.
All I've read about this, which means there may be more, is:
1. CCP are aware it messes up AU players. How they get round this I don't know. The DT also needs to fit into their normal day as well (although companies like Blizzard do it early mornings)
2. Unlike single shard and relatively data light servers other MMORPG's have the CCP servers are very complex and interact. So I think you must do them all together. I was surprised they needed to do it once a day too but apparently the data is huge and as even one error can cause big issues (unlike other games) they have to do it daily. In a game like WOW there is very little actual data, just the Auction House, and its not critical data as the game is not reliant on the market. EVE's market is enormous.
3. CCP often post blogs saying they are doing their best to reduce DT which they seem to be doing. I agree its the disruption that's the issue though, even a few minutes is a pain.
4. I suspect if they could do it weekly they would. They do have very good engineers so I would be surprised if that had not been looked at and hopefully one day it may happen. It affects all of us too, although not as much.
5. A lot of game mechanics relies on DT being once a day (respawns and resets) I did read they were trying to gradually change this which is a sign they do want to make DT's less frequent when they can.
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Avo Daith
Mentors Administration
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Posted - 2009.12.14 15:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: GKFC Thanks for the replies.
So has there been talk of distributing the data across multiple clusters to reduce the necessity for daily downtime?
Weekly I could understand. Daily is rather intrusive?
Cheers,
G.
What you need to understand is how unique Eve is. It is vast, with hundreds of thousands of people interacting, and at the same time it is a single unit. Games like WoW deal with their interaction by being split into separate shards, so at any one time you are only playing with a relatively small number of people. You don't notice downtimes on such shards; if the server you normally use is down you just log into another one. With Eve that option isn't there.
The size of Eve necessitates daily maintenance. Any time they could pick inconveniences somebody. By setting it at the same time every day they minimize their disruption and make their internal systems as efficient as possible, which reduces errors and costs, both of which benefit us. If you can't get over it then you need to go play something else. It isn't going to change any time soon.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.14 16:11:00 -
[10]
Also, the time they chose makes sense from a CCP persepective. It's the middle of their working day, which means that if there is a problem, you already have the people on hand to deal with it, you don't have to page them, wait for a response, get them into the office, get them logged in, find the problem, etc etc.
Admittedly, it's inconvenient for the folks in the area of Austrailia, but let's face it, no matter what time they choose, it's going to be inconvenient for someone. --Vel
In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d. |
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Aitvaras Strategic Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.14 16:40:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 14/12/2009 16:41:42
Originally by: GKFC Thanks for the replies.
So has there been talk of distributing the data across multiple clusters to reduce the necessity for daily downtime?
Weekly I could understand. Daily is rather intrusive?
Cheers,
G.
Absolutely not. The single-shard setup is one of EvE's key selling points - what you do affects everyone. In a sandbox game like EvE where there's no pre-set goals by the devs being able to say "I did <whatever>" carries a lot more weight when everyone else can somehow relate to what you did.
I'll be the first to agree daily DT can be a pain, but a lot of game mechanics are tied to DT (asteroid / plex respawns, NPC markets reseeding, sov mechanics (though that may have changed with Dominion, I'm not in the nullsec game), database maintenance, etc).
From the explanations I've seen in devblogs and such on how EvE's backend database works, I don't really see how it could be eliminated. At least it's usually short, 20 minutes. Dock, order a pizza, log back on.
On the positive side, being able to log in immediately after DT without it being some strange (and inconvenient) time of day will give you a huge advantage if you know how to exploit the DT mechanics.
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Shasta Racka
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Posted - 2009.12.14 17:34:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Shasta Racka on 14/12/2009 17:33:51 I never understood why they can't do reseeding and respawning on some sort of automated timer, with a bit of randomness thrown in. Having belts be completely full right after the servers come back online makes the game too predictable.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.14 18:33:00 -
[13]
One theory I have: EVE back-end is a really big and busy MS SQL server. As is typical with databases, whenever you delete a record it is marked as deleted and just sits there forever. The only way to get rid of deleted records is to re-build the database. Now I have my doubts that they can do a database re-build in an hour, but perhaps they are doing some similar sort of garbage collection?
Another theory: my laptop blue-screens daily if not rebooted, and after all EVE is based on a MS product...
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Lanrick
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Posted - 2009.12.14 20:32:00 -
[14]
This is what you get when you run MicroLimp. I still haven't been able to talk them into buying a real database. Seriously though, there is no reason you can't rebuild your indexes and reorg your tables while online. For that matter, if you have things setup right with the right software you can do rolling upgrades to your system without bringing the cluster down. Ask yourself how often a sites like google or amazon take their databases offline.
Even so, downtime cannot be eliminated entirely and running maintenance routines every day for an hour or less very often means not having to run them for several hours once a week.
Remember though, down time is very often less than the stated hour. Install evemon if you haven't already and it will also let you know right when the cluster comes back up. ------- "The strong are often wrong but the weak are never free." |
Chrar
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Posted - 2009.12.15 11:37:00 -
[15]
One reason Tranquility needs daily DT vs other MMOs is the amount of players - over 40'000 vs. up to 4'000 online during peak hours. The game also builds heavily on player action like production (and everything associated to it like mining, salvaging, refining, research etc) which is highly likely a LOT higher in comparison with most other MMOs, thus requiring daily database maintenance.
And TBH I rather live with one hour daily than 11 hours weekly, but I also see how it affects certain time zones. But then again it's one hour and not like a full day of no chance to log in.
The 1h DT also makes skill planning easier as you can quickly oversee that your skill queue would end 6 hours before that weekly DT would end.
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.15 12:03:00 -
[16]
The main reason for daily downtime is to allow Australian men a chance to wash the dishes, check on the kids, kiss the wife goodnight, etc, and thus prevent divorce.
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annab
Amarr Dromedaworks inc The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.15 14:27:00 -
[17]
The hours down time goes like this.
First 20 mins deal with the databases Next 20 mins hotfixes. Last 20 mins unplug server and plug coffee machine in and make lots of coffee. Then once boiled plug then server back in.
The reason for this is simple workers need coffee and there's not enough plug sockets. Normally CCP can't buy beer at this hour and coffee is the only answer.
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Avo Daith
Mentors Administration
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Posted - 2009.12.15 16:10:00 -
[18]
Originally by: annab The hours down time goes like this.
First 20 mins deal with the databases Next 20 mins hotfixes. Last 20 mins unplug server and plug coffee machine in and make lots of coffee. Then once boiled plug then server back in.
The reason for this is simple workers need coffee and there's not enough plug sockets. Normally CCP can't buy beer at this hour and coffee is the only answer.
That would work except as previously stated DT can be under half an hour. So they only need coffee sometimes... _________________________ Join Channel 'Mentors' for PVP and PVE help and advice ingame without changing corps. Click Channels and Mailing lists > Channels > Join > Mentors |
Skex Relbore
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Posted - 2009.12.15 19:28:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Avo Daith
Originally by: annab The hours down time goes like this.
First 20 mins deal with the databases Next 20 mins hotfixes. Last 20 mins unplug server and plug coffee machine in and make lots of coffee. Then once boiled plug then server back in.
The reason for this is simple workers need coffee and there's not enough plug sockets. Normally CCP can't buy beer at this hour and coffee is the only answer.
That would work except as previously stated DT can be under half an hour. So they only need coffee sometimes...
Well obviously on the days with under half an hour of downtime they skip all the other stuff and just make coffee.
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ThaDollaGenerale
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.15 23:35:00 -
[20]
For those of us in Asia TZ.
DT = Dinner Time
Deal with it.
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annab
Amarr Dromedaworks inc The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.16 22:57:00 -
[21]
Edited by: annab on 16/12/2009 22:58:47 I have never seen a half hours dt. Mind you I don't sit there waiting for dt to end. I have other things to do. Also its listed as an hour but meh. Really do we really care?
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