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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.08 21:30:00 -
[1]
This issue was brought to my attention by a concerned citizen during the campaign phase of the CSM elections and it seemed so obvious that I couldnÆt do anything but promise that I would bring it up. This is a recap from an old thead by that person in order to poll support at this time.
Since the introduction of Tech-2 sentry drones there has been a major inconsistency in EVEÆs drone line-up: they are the only Tech-2 drones that do not require the race-specific ôdrone specializationö skill. A few very easy solutions:
1)Reduce base sentry damage by 7.407%, and make sentry drones require the racial specialization skill at level 4. This will result in exactly equal damage at that skill level, and grant a 2% bonus to DPS for those dedicated enough to train the racial specialization skill to level 5.
2)Reduce base sentry damage by 9.09%, and make sentry drones require any level of drone specialization that CCP deems suitable and at level 5 they will do identical damage to their current variants.
3)Give the racial specialization skill some sort of other bonus for sentry drones û tracking, range, anything reasonably small but useful.
- Sok.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.08 21:32:00 -
[2]
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Sentry_drone_skill_change_proposal
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Guard
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Posted - 2009.12.08 22:05:00 -
[3]
We not need 1 personal CSM own vote. Dont want to play god with CSM title. And not supported, this changes.
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Neu Bastian
Minmatar Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2009.12.08 22:09:00 -
[4]
sentry drone interfacing takes forever to rain and its more than fair.
don't fix what ain't broke.
Quote:
Neu Bastian Valklear Guard - CEO
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Helen Highwater
Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.08 22:22:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sokratesz ...they are the only Tech-2 drones that do not require the race-specific ôdrone specializationö skill.
This isn't strictly true. Neither T2 logistics drones nor T2 mining drones need any racial drone spec skills.
I am against this because the different sentry drones work in a different way to regular combat drones. Normally the choice between different flavours of combat drone gets you a different damage type whereas sentries give markedly different range and tracking profiles. Thus in some cases you might want to deploy Wardens for sniping and then switch to Gardes for close in work. While it's vanishingly unlikely that anyone who can use T2 sentries won't have at least one racial drone skill at IV, it's harsh to expect drone users to train all of them just to be able to have some kind of tactical flexibility. --------------------------------------------------------------
Let's not and say we did. |
Maxsim Goratiev
Imperium Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.08 22:49:00 -
[6]
i am a drone user, and i do support this. I, however, do not think that sentries should get their damage nerfed. WHy: t1 sentries out damage t1 heafvy drones. By a tiny margin, but they do. That is a compensation they get for inability to more. t2 sentries currently deal less damage then t2 heavy drones when used by a well skilled pilot. IMAO that needs changing, and sentury drones should apply racial skills, in exchange for higher training time.
Quote: sentry drone interfacing takes forever to rain
It takes just as long as heavy drone operation.
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Muad' Dib
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.12.09 00:23:00 -
[7]
All for it but if you get this fixed before the more serious problems on the agenda, i will lose what little faith i still have left in the intelligence of CCP's game designers. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market ! |
Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.09 05:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 09/12/2009 05:48:56
Originally by: Muad' Dib All for it but if you get this fixed before the more serious problems on the agenda, i will lose what little faith i still have left in the intelligence of CCP's game designers.
I know, and it will be considered a 'minor' issue so be glad, not much time will be wasted on it. As it is now T2 sentries require no specialisation skill (this is true for logistics drones, but they are not combat drones, and have no racial variation in stats) and this could be considered an inconsistency in the drone line-up.
Besides, every serious drone user will have the racial specs to 4 already, and if not, its only a 3-day train from 0.
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Alekseyev Karrde
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Posted - 2009.12.09 06:38:00 -
[9]
I definitly the skills should buff the drones but i dont think it should be accompanied by a base damage nerf. Either apply the 2% to damage as-is, or, and i'd actually prefer this, add 2% to tracking. ---
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.09 07:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde I definitly the skills should buff the drones but i dont think it should be accompanied by a base damage nerf. Either apply the 2% to damage as-is, or, and i'd actually prefer this, add 2% to tracking.
I wouldn't want to suggest something that people could cry 'OMG OVERPOWERED' at, so I did the numbers to keep the dps equal. If CCP would like it they can take it wherever though.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.09 08:32:00 -
[11]
One of the major cons of sentry drones is they are stationary. To offset this they should do more damage than heavies.
I am for adding the skill requirement to be race specific at level 5 but they should get the bonus of the damage from that skill.
I also think the drone rigs should be reworked. The only rig/module in game that directly increases drone damage uses 200 calibration and applies only to sentry drones. I feel this calibration is too high. 150 seems balanced.
Besides, a navy domi only gets 350 calibration, so that ship can't even fit two of those rigs.
In the end as a drone user for many years, I feel the proposed change is not a good one.
Not supported.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.09 11:04:00 -
[12]
Supported. I like the +tracking% variant, would be a nice differentiation. +10% tracking will be a nice little bonus, but hardly a game breaker.
To prevent the inevitable tears, you could have it such that T2 sentries only need spec level 1 or 2 to actually be used.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.09 11:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Marlona Sky One of the major cons of sentry drones is they are stationary. To offset this they should do more damage than heavies.
I am for adding the skill requirement to be race specific at level 5 but they should get the bonus of the damage from that skill.
I also think the drone rigs should be reworked. The only rig/module in game that directly increases drone damage uses 200 calibration and applies only to sentry drones. I feel this calibration is too high. 150 seems balanced.
Besides, a navy domi only gets 350 calibration, so that ship can't even fit two of those rigs.
In the end as a drone user for many years, I feel the proposed change is not a good one.
Not supported.
If I'm reading you right, you would like it if they were given an edge because of the skill. (option 3) ?
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Nico Terces
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Posted - 2009.12.09 11:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Marlona Sky One of the major cons of sentry drones is they are stationary. To offset this they should do more damage than heavies.
I am for adding the skill requirement to be race specific at level 5 but they should get the bonus of the damage from that skill.
I also think the drone rigs should be reworked. The only rig/module in game that directly increases drone damage uses 200 calibration and applies only to sentry drones. I feel this calibration is too high. 150 seems balanced.
Besides, a navy domi only gets 350 calibration, so that ship can't even fit two of those rigs. In the end as a drone user for many years, I feel the proposed change is not a good one.
Not supported.
I think the proposed idea is a good one. Racial Drone Spec at lvl 4 isnt a hard thing to achieve. Most people will have the racial dronespecs at 4, so there is no difference in the damage output. Racial drone specs at 5 will grant the Sentries a little extra damage, but that is a small percentage for dedicated players, which crosses over to heavy drones as well, so it's not enlarging the relative gap in damage between the drone types.
The advantage of sentries over heavies is that they can do instant damage from long distances. Heavy drones have the advantage of mobility, but I disagree that sentries should get more of a damage bonus because they cant move.
Furthermore, I think about every damage incresing rig ingame has 200 calibration. Sentry drones do not need a buff in terms of less calibration used.
In conclusion: Agree with OP.
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Omber Zombie
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.09 12:18:00 -
[15]
if you want to get really bizarre you could add option 4) Sentry Drone Spec (damage/tracking/range (falloff) bonus)
otherwise yes, supported. ----------------------
My Blog |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.12.09 19:09:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Bagehi on 09/12/2009 19:18:48
Originally by: Helen Highwater Normally the choice between different flavours of combat drone gets you a different damage type whereas sentries give markedly different range and tracking profiles.
Not true. You also have the DPS, tracking, and speed variables. Minmatar drones are fastest, Gallente do the most DPS. So, you end up with Minmatar having the best light drones and Gallente having the best heavy drones in almost all circumstances.
Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev t1 sentries out damage t1 heafvy drones. By a tiny margin, but they do. That is a compensation they get for inability to mo(v)e.
Nooooooo!
Originally by: Marlona Sky One of the major cons of sentry drones is they are stationary. To offset this they should do more damage than heavies.
Noooooo!
One of the MAJOR cons to heavy drones is they don't sit right beside you and snipe things. You can't easily switch them out when someone/thing starts shooting it, unlike a sentry, to prevent it from dying. Sentry drones are basically invincible because of this. THIS is why they do less damage than a heavy. Drones need a lot of work in general. Almost any suggested change is likely to be an improvement at this point, so I'll support this.
Fix Local |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.09 19:42:00 -
[17]
I'm for T2 sentries requiring the drone spec skills to lvl 4, thus increasing its damage and for reducing the calibration of the sentry damage rigs.
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.12.09 20:33:00 -
[18]
Not supported as a t2 sentry drone user.
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Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.12.09 21:43:00 -
[19]
not supported in this form ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.12.09 23:10:00 -
[20]
Supported, rather see the tracking bonus over base damage reduction.
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Dominique Vasilkovsky
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Posted - 2009.12.09 23:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Neu Bastian sentry drone interfacing takes forever to rain and its more than fair.
don't fix what ain't broke.
It is broken, they are too easy to get.
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Dannerkongen
Lootex
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Posted - 2009.12.10 00:06:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Dannerkongen on 10/12/2009 00:11:28 Edited by: Dannerkongen on 10/12/2009 00:10:24 leave my drones alone and fix range on scorch instead!
besides i had to live with my drones not attacking structures for GOD KNOWS HOW ****ING LONG!!
so i think they should actually be easier to get plus shoot way harder!
oh yeahº! also i think we should be able to use 10 drones with half dmg coz drones die too easy even with bonus
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Textret
Gallente The Executioners Aggressive Dissonance
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Posted - 2009.12.10 00:46:00 -
[23]
no nerfing the sentry drones, leave them alone.
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2009.12.10 03:13:00 -
[24]
I'm all for this change, but not to reduce the DPS of these things. They're immobile and in a fight the ship launching them is generally very mobile. Even a slight change in position makes recovering them a chore.
Someone said they can be easily scooped when shot at and that is true, but it has no impact on their survivability because they don't recover while in the drone bay and can essentially be instalocked when re-deployed due to their large sig.
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Alfons Richthofen
Caldari Die Luftwaffe
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Posted - 2009.12.10 03:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 09/12/2009 05:48:56
Originally by: Muad' Dib All for it but if you get this fixed before the more serious problems on the agenda, i will lose what little faith i still have left in the intelligence of CCP's game designers.
I know, and it will be considered a 'minor' issue so be glad, not much time will be wasted on it. As it is now T2 sentries require no specialisation skill (this is true for logistics drones, but they are not combat drones, and have no racial variation in stats) and this could be considered an inconsistency in the drone line-up.
Besides, every serious drone user will have the racial specs to 4 already, and if not, its only a 3-day train from 0.
Uhm drone spec takes 3 days 23 hours to get from 3->4 Do you even play EVE? Not everyone remapped memory and perception.
Also sentries have superior range and thus have inferior damage, that's how it works see? Torpedoes can't be cruise missiles and radio can't be multi-frequency.
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Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.10 10:11:00 -
[26]
We not need + SP sink again for no damage changes. Buff the forgotten drones, dont nerf. Not supported.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.10 10:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Textret no nerfing the sentry drones, leave them alone.
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit We not need + SP sink again for no damage changes. Buff the forgotten drones, dont nerf. Not supported.
Duno what thread you have been reading, but I am looking to make the T2 line-up more consistent AND at the same time keep them equal -or- give them a small buff because of the skill bonuses. I do not want to 'nerf sentries' that is utter BS.
Originally by: Alfons Richthofen
Uhm drone spec takes 3 days 23 hours to get from 3->4
That is 'between 3 and 4 days', isn't it? And really what are 4 days or even a month in the grand scheme of things, when it doesn't harm you in any way but could get you some nice bonuses?
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Helen Highwater
Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.10 13:44:00 -
[28]
It is a nerf if you have to train additional skills to make them work the way they currently do - even if they might potentially be better if you take all the spec skills to V. That's a nerf.
I'm not seeing the need for this change, the only real reason that's been put forwards is that it puts T2 Sentry drones into the same boxes as other T2 combat drones. That doesn't strike me as a compelling reason to do it.
If there was a proper rebalancing of all drones where their roles and the ways that they are currently used were re-evaluated across the board then I'd support that, but this just seems like a change for the sake of changing something. --------------------------------------------------------------
Let's not and say we did. |
Sokratesz
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Posted - 2009.12.10 15:08:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Helen Highwater It is a nerf if you have to train additional skills to make them work the way they currently do - even if they might potentially be better if you take all the spec skills to V. That's a nerf.
That's why I left # 3 open to decide for CCP - I did not want to suggest a plain DPS increase because they might feel that to be overpowered.
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperium Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.10 15:16:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 10/12/2009 15:17:40
Quote: Also sentries have superior range and thus have inferior damage
POs guns have superior range to your ship's guns. GUess what? they do more damage, because they are stationary. THey also have lower tracking, and they cannot close in distance with their target, get back to the owner, have larger sig radius and cannot speedtank.. Do i need to continue the list? RL perspective: Since they have no engines. their is more space for guns.
Quote: It is a nerf if you have to train additional skills to make them work the way they currently do - even if they might potentially be better if you take all the spec skills to V. That's a nerf.
Creating a skill that adds 10% more damage is NOT a nerf. 3 more days in training is not much for any serious drone pilot, sentries take months to train for, and you will want to fly a specializes ship like an Ishtar to use them properly. 3 days is nothing in comparison to it, especially since you need them for t2 heavy drones anyway.
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