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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Evil Flowerchild
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Posted - 2009.11.17 16:47:00 -
[91]
So, the introduction of citadel cruise pretty much means that we will have to train another skill as the citadel torpedoes will be the short range version of the two. None of the other capital weapons require that you train separate skills for short and long range weapons. Yet another time sink of skills for a dread that is being made sub-par again.
Also I have not examined the DPS of the citadel cruise missile, but I imagine the DPS is not on par with the current citadel torpedoes which would mean another nerf to the long range DPS of the Naglfar besides the current bonus changes.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.11.17 19:49:00 -
[92]
I shall rerise the quesiton CCP.
WHY the naglfar was MASSIVELY nerfed? TO a status WORSE than before its original boost?
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sue denim
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Posted - 2009.11.17 23:43:00 -
[93]
dear ccp,
stop making me train more **** to use the naglfar, thanks
p.s. also don't make it suck too much.
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Ernst Ra'Kun
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Posted - 2009.11.18 02:59:00 -
[94]
I had planned and invested quite a lot to training for the naglfar. I was quite happy with the boost they gave but now.... sigh...
is there any way this can be a good ship still or do i just train for amarr?
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.11.18 05:35:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Ernst Ra'Kun I had planned and invested quite a lot to training for the naglfar. I was quite happy with the boost they gave but now.... sigh...
is there any way this can be a good ship still or do i just train for amarr?
if the hel remains to be the only mom with an explosion radius bonus to fighter bombers, it could very well be the only minnie capital with an edge. - putting the gist back into logistics |
Nuts Nougat
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.18 12:56:00 -
[96]
Originally by: BearCare 1. Why isn't this on first page?
This. ---
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.18 13:20:00 -
[97]
its as it is we adapt or die Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.18 16:10:00 -
[98]
Originally by: HeliosGal its as it is we adapt or die
It is a horrible design mistake that took forever to fix in the first place. The Nag needs it's double turret bonuses back. Just tweak them to the appropriate level.
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Arramis
Minmatar ROMANIA Renegades Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2009.11.18 16:45:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Seriously Bored
Originally by: HeliosGal its as it is we adapt or die
It is a horrible design mistake that took forever to fix in the first place. The Nag needs it's double turret bonuses back. Just tweak them to the appropriate level.
You are another clueless noob ..it seems. It got rid of dual bonuces for various motives, but it`s hard to read before posting. ------------------------------------------
Manelele`s expresia clara a prostiei si inculturii romanesti. |
Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.11.18 17:02:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Arramis
Originally by: Seriously Bored
Originally by: HeliosGal its as it is we adapt or die
It is a horrible design mistake that took forever to fix in the first place. The Nag needs it's double turret bonuses back. Just tweak them to the appropriate level.
You are another clueless noob ..it seems. It got rid of dual bonuces for various motives, but it`s hard to read before posting.
you are the one noobshiling ignoring the massive discussion that we had with devs on the naglfar main thread months ago. When we proved and convinced them that split weapons do not escalate well, basically because you need 2 times the number of modules/rigs for damage and 2 times the number of modules/rigs to extend your rang of engagement.
Split weapon systems work PARTIALLY only at point blank range. POint blank range is NOT viable in capital ship warfare (the whole change for close range weapons is just a joke commign from people that really lack a feeling of how capital warfare is conducted in the age of 100 dreads per side)
Weapons that cannot reach 150 km.. are useless.
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Isil Rahsen
Gallente Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.18 20:01:00 -
[101]
Back to the top.
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Mr Yarrr
Black Rise Angels
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Posted - 2009.11.18 21:41:00 -
[102]
top top top
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Mr Opinions
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Posted - 2009.11.18 22:02:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Mr Opinions on 18/11/2009 22:05:51 Edited by: Mr Opinions on 18/11/2009 22:05:11
I rarely bump something but this is so awful. I agree it deserves to be on top. It's a double nerf. First going from 7.5 to 5%. Then, much much worse, reintroducing the horrible split weapon system bonuses. This hasn't been corrected in the last two patches on Sisi, which worries me somewhat.
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Ernst Ra'Kun
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Posted - 2009.11.19 01:05:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
Originally by: Ernst Ra'Kun I had planned and invested quite a lot to training for the naglfar. I was quite happy with the boost they gave but now.... sigh...
is there any way this can be a good ship still or do i just train for amarr?
if the hel remains to be the only mom with an explosion radius bonus to fighter bombers, it could very well be the only minnie capital with an edge.
Truly? Hopefully that lasts a while. I'm beginning to feel theres a lack of hope for going to... bigger minmatar ships. Anyways, though not wanting to turn up the heat on this a lot more, I am curious to know if many people did feel the current 7.5% RoF and Dmg to XL projectile is considered somewhat ...over powered? (personally it looked nice to me)
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.19 01:21:00 -
[105]
It was not overpowered. At lvl 4 Dread a Rev still does more damage, only at lvl 5 does the nag pull ahead DPS wise. |
Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.11.19 10:06:00 -
[106]
Bringing this up. Because if CCP tough that the old naglfar rants and whines were a lot. ... they better get ready to what will come from the comunity every frickign day even after dominion is deployed until this is solved!
The because of falcon Meme will sound like a joke compared to what will happen.
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Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.19 11:44:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Zaiyo Modi on 19/11/2009 11:45:53
I hope ccp realise that people's patience might be awfully getting thin in regard to absurd and possibly r etardative changes to the game mechanics (it is a real and unprovocative word, surely it is not wrong to circumvent this cencoring feature).
It seem pertinent to keep in mind certain characteristics that seem ill willed for the evolvement of the game, in terms of game mechanics and other sensibilities.
a) Featurekreep. b) An ever changing stat description on ships and items. c) Existing issues not being improved upon. d) The watering down of the soul of eve online, so to speak. e) Misunderstood idealism, i.e "balancing" issues.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.19 12:05:00 -
[108]
here is what ccp will do ......
motherships will be reintroduced between titans and supercarriers later on ( perhaps tech 2 variants) existing caps will be pulled back slightly and tech 2 variants introduced sometime next year bringing them in between t1 dread-carriers and the supercarrier and mothershipd classes.
Just my take a bit like other ship changes introducing the way for tech 3 ( this ties in with tech 3 modules neededing prereq level 5 and tech 2s being pulled back to 4 and 3 for this patch)
Only other option is introducing advanced hacking, cloaking skills or a level 6 into game Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Dursun Idris
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Posted - 2009.11.19 12:23:00 -
[109]
if: 200 damage from a turret. %5 damage (one bonus) = 210 damage. if: 100 damage from a turret %5 damage 100 damage from a launcer %5 damage (two bonuses)= 210 damage.
Dear CCP, see? Split weapon problems start with here...
And don't even ****ing let me start about arties and nagl***... Only viable explanation to this nerf is Iceland got too cold and DEV's got brainfreeze.
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Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.11.19 18:21:00 -
[110]
I've submitted bug report ID #86867 with the following text:
Quote: Only a few months ago, the Naglfar was changed by CCP Chronotis to be focused more on projectile damage than relying on split weapon bonuses. See thread http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1061225, specifically post 498 on page 17 which details the changes that made it to Tranquility.
This came about after a very long period of player lobbying with proof that the Naglfar was substantially subpar compared to the other dreadnoughts. This lobbying effort even involved the CSM, and the improvement to the ship has been touted since as one of the things the CSM has achieved.
The current change on SiSi back to split weapon bonuses undoes a significant portion of the improvement. The Naglfar is already the most training-intensive dreadnought to pilot (requiring two - soon three - capital weapon systems trained as well as, for maximum fitting flexibility, both capital tanking methods); to hamper it with what will effectively be only one weapon bonus (it is mathematically demonstrable that two split weapon bonuses are equivalent to one weapon bonus on more focused ships) feels unjust and poorly thought out. On top of it, fitting it will be more problematic as the requirement to fit double the number of weapon modules in order to get the same increase in damage means less slots available for tanking.
Please revisit the Naglfar changes before Dominion and I implore you to revert the ship back to focused weapon bonuses, with citadel missiles being a supplement to DPS, not a major component. The current change on SiSi is desperately unfair to a ship that has only just been changed to let it be competitive for the first time. If you feel that the Tranquility bonuses of 7.5% each overdo it for the ship, then by all means reduce them, but please keep the projectile focus that the players and the CSM lobbied so hard for.
Looking forward to seeing what the response is.
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Isil Rahsen
Gallente Ferrum Superum
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:28:00 -
[111]
Good luck getting anything other than "Working as intended.".
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:33:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Elaron I've submitted bug report ID #86867 with the following text:
Quote: Only a few months ago, the Naglfar was changed by CCP Chronotis to be focused more on projectile damage than relying on split weapon bonuses. See thread http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1061225, specifically post 498 on page 17 which details the changes that made it to Tranquility.
This came about after a very long period of player lobbying with proof that the Naglfar was substantially subpar compared to the other dreadnoughts. This lobbying effort even involved the CSM, and the improvement to the ship has been touted since as one of the things the CSM has achieved.
The current change on SiSi back to split weapon bonuses undoes a significant portion of the improvement. The Naglfar is already the most training-intensive dreadnought to pilot (requiring two - soon three - capital weapon systems trained as well as, for maximum fitting flexibility, both capital tanking methods); to hamper it with what will effectively be only one weapon bonus (it is mathematically demonstrable that two split weapon bonuses are equivalent to one weapon bonus on more focused ships) feels unjust and poorly thought out. On top of it, fitting it will be more problematic as the requirement to fit double the number of weapon modules in order to get the same increase in damage means less slots available for tanking.
Please revisit the Naglfar changes before Dominion and I implore you to revert the ship back to focused weapon bonuses, with citadel missiles being a supplement to DPS, not a major component. The current change on SiSi is desperately unfair to a ship that has only just been changed to let it be competitive for the first time. If you feel that the Tranquility bonuses of 7.5% each overdo it for the ship, then by all means reduce them, but please keep the projectile focus that the players and the CSM lobbied so hard for.
Looking forward to seeing what the response is.
Originally by: CCP Nohz's new blahg Due to the changes made to XL Turrets, Citadel Missiles/Torpedoes and projectile turrets, the Naglfar became an absolute monster, not in a good way. The weapon bonuses on the Naglfar had to be adjusted to keep the balance intact.
yeah sure lol.... ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Arramis
Minmatar ROMANIA Renegades
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:47:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Elaron I've submitted bug report ID #86867 with the following text:
Quote: Only a few months ago, the Naglfar was changed by CCP Chronotis to be focused more on projectile damage than relying on split weapon bonuses. See thread http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1061225, specifically post 498 on page 17 which details the changes that made it to Tranquility.
This came about after a very long period of player lobbying with proof that the Naglfar was substantially subpar compared to the other dreadnoughts. This lobbying effort even involved the CSM, and the improvement to the ship has been touted since as one of the things the CSM has achieved.
The current change on SiSi back to split weapon bonuses undoes a significant portion of the improvement. The Naglfar is already the most training-intensive dreadnought to pilot (requiring two - soon three - capital weapon systems trained as well as, for maximum fitting flexibility, both capital tanking methods); to hamper it with what will effectively be only one weapon bonus (it is mathematically demonstrable that two split weapon bonuses are equivalent to one weapon bonus on more focused ships) feels unjust and poorly thought out. On top of it, fitting it will be more problematic as the requirement to fit double the number of weapon modules in order to get the same increase in damage means less slots available for tanking.
Please revisit the Naglfar changes before Dominion and I implore you to revert the ship back to focused weapon bonuses, with citadel missiles being a supplement to DPS, not a major component. The current change on SiSi is desperately unfair to a ship that has only just been changed to let it be competitive for the first time. If you feel that the Tranquility bonuses of 7.5% each overdo it for the ship, then by all means reduce them, but please keep the projectile focus that the players and the CSM lobbied so hard for.
Looking forward to seeing what the response is.
Originally by: CCP Nohz's new blahg Due to the changes made to XL Turrets, Citadel Missiles/Torpedoes and projectile turrets, the Naglfar became an absolute monster, not in a good way. The weapon bonuses on the Naglfar had to be adjusted to keep the balance intact.
yeah sure lol....
Oh my god...Nozh is on crack. FIRE HIM!!! ------------------------------------------
Manelele`s expresia clara a prostiei si inculturii romanesti. |
Linas IV
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:08:00 -
[114]
REVERT THE ****ING NAGLFAR!!!!
This is not fun anymore, Citadel Torps/Cruise are an ABSOLUTE JOKE on sisi atm, (Lol 2250m Exp-rad. wtf)
Don't try to tell me we should fit freaking targetpainters on a shieltanking Dreadnought, just to serve their one and only purpose: To shoot towers!
Additionaly dropping the first and lowering the 2nd Projectile bonus rendered the Naglfar completely useless again in Capital fights. (Revelation FOTM again with those changes)
Leave it as it ***ING IS ON TQ ATM!!
I dont care about your planned weapon rebalances.
Just leave it as it is, weapons and all.
Thats all.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:17:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 20/11/2009 00:17:19 It's obvious that with 7.5% dual damage bonuses combined with the new turret changes, the Nagl would be very, very overpowered.
But making it split weapon against is the worst thing conceivable. CCP is making another Level 5 skill (Cruise missiles) mandatory to fly this thing. A different approach must be taken.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:26:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Seriously Bored Edited by: Seriously Bored on 20/11/2009 00:18:30 It's obvious that with 7.5% dual damage bonuses combined with the new turret changes, the Nagl would be very, very overpowered.
But making it split weapon against is the worst thing conceivable. CCP is making another Level 5 skill (Cruise missiles) mandatory to fly this thing, not to mention that sniping with missiles will still be a crappy idea. A different approach must be taken.
if they are worried about how overpowered the nag will be after changes, nerfing it to the same bonuses that the tempest has would be enough, but hey, CCP knows best with their sledgehammer approaches. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:36:00 -
[117]
Just to add to the topic:
If the Naglfar's bonuses were changes to 5% Damage/ROF for Projectile turrets, and its missile bonus was removed, this would result in a 5% increase in DPS over what is currently on Sisi. (Calculated for ACs/Torps off the XL weapon balance thread.)
Is that so incredibly gamebreaking CCP? 5%? Give us our turrets back, PLEASE.
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Kraken Kill
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 01:01:00 -
[118]
Why cant a Dread that has 4! Dread weapons be the Dread which does the most DPS?
why is it always the Amarr who do the most DPS followed by the Gallente? All minmatar dread pilots will need to train Citadel cruise now. uh why do i even bother posting. might as well talk to myself while i play navyfield. |
Ernst Ra'Kun
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Posted - 2009.11.20 01:18:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Kraken Kill Why cant a Dread that has 4! Dread weapons be the Dread which does the most DPS?
why is it always the Amarr who do the most DPS followed by the Gallente? All minmatar dread pilots will need to train Citadel cruise now. uh why do i even bother posting. might as well talk to myself while i play navyfield.
i find myself gleefully reading this one.
why indeed hmm? i have to agree that the 4 weapons slots as a defining thing abt the naglfar (aside also from the fact that it is the only VERTICAL dread, but dats another matter ) it shud deal good amount of dps, though of course not overly so. But again, I also have to ask another thing coz i havent been on sisi or such, are the new proposed XL projectile changes that good that the nag needs this severe a nerf?
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.20 01:45:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Ernst Ra'Kun Are the new proposed XL projectile changes that good that the nag needs this severe a nerf?
I've been doing the math...they might be. At least to justify a large reduction in the bonuses. I think making it split weapon again is the most severe part of the nerf, however.
But I guess I'm going to have to take a closer look at the missile changes and what it does to final real DPS before complaining further.
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