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Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.11.10 22:33:00 - [31] It actually tanks 480 vs angels and 500+ vs sansha/blood /more than my nightmares burst tank/. But i know, you cant be bothered to fit rat specific hardeners... You also need 2x small boosters on your tengu, because it will take you 2x as much time to kill webbing elite frigs without rigors/tps... it will take you much more time to complete missions too. And if you call permarunning ab and booster and setting orbit micromanaging... ok whatever.
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.11.10 23:03:00 - [32] A 4th BCU is never worth it. 40 extra dps is not enough to justify loosing a med slot. Ever. Especially when that med slot houses a painter which boosts damage by a LOT against frigs and certainly makes sure you get every last drop out of your rage missiles against cruisers. Whoever said HAMs don't add much damage has screwed something up in eft. My tengu does 930ish DPS (3 navy BCUs, rage missiles and implants). Now thats a ** ton more dps than your pansy ass heavy set-up. Not saying I always use HAMs, just that its a MASSIVE step up in kill speed. People who worry about the kill speed on frigates need to HTFU. It doesn't take THAT long to down them, and if your smart you pop them as they MWD in, which one shots most of them, or you ignore them and frag everything in that spawn in before they do any real harm. Originally by:** Col Angus Originally by: Katarlia Simov I will never understand why people want to make crazy expensive omni-tanks when you never EVER need to use them. Ever been in a worm hole? Did you notice how Sleepers do large amounts of all damage types? I know this is supposed to be about L4 missions, but you said never EVER. Please see my last post again...the part about thinking. You sir, are ****ed :) Its a thread about mission running. Scroll back up to the top and re-read the title. Go on ... take your time. Done that ? Now STFU. Wormholes are totally different to mission running. In the exact same way that suggesting to the OP that he brings eight other corp members including logistics ships and making sure there's some ECM, suggesting that he fit to tank sleepers in a level 4 mission is utterly ****ed. You will NEVER need a massive omni-tank in a mission. The dude who suggested X-type kinetic and thermal harnders ? You need to put down the crack pipe. There is just no call to spend that kind of money. It already tanks everything fine with only slight pimping.
Arcirya	Posted - 2009.11.10 23:38:00 - [33] You use a HAM Tengu? Great =) I'm training for a Tengu atm and I haven't decided which weapon system I should go for yet (I'll probably end up getting both but it's a hassle with different rigs and implants). I'm going for the un-scannable variant which means that I lose 2 mids to ECCM so there's no room for painters (sensor strength subsystem doesn't give mids either) so I'm thinking HMLs will be better even though there's a 200 EFT DPS difference. I guess you can fit Rigor rigs but then you get super crappy range (my EFT fit has range rigs and I get about 40km with that). But maybe the Tengu is so fast that the range isn't an issue? With HAMs I run into PG issues though so I can't fit a faction AB for more speed Anyway, since you're flying one, how much damage does the speed mitigate? I'll only have a few minutes of sustained 350-ish tank on the low resists and I'm hoping that will be enough
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.11.11 00:05:00 - [34] To katarlia : In some missions hams will be better, in other hmls... since i used my tengu as dps support for my nightmare too, i decided to go hmls - and hml tengu doesnt need painter, so 4th bcu and +40 dps was more important for me - as its better for every hml tengu. To arcirya : Speed/sig of tengu really mitigate alot of incoming dps - once webbing frigs are down theres not much on the field that can hurt you.
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.11.11 00:14:00 - [35] Originally by: Arcirya You use a HAM Tengu? Great =) I'm training for a Tengu atm and I haven't decided which weapon system I should go for yet (I'll probably end up getting both but it's a hassle with different rigs and implants). I'm going for the un-scannable variant which means that I lose 2 mids to ECCM so there's no room for painters (sensor strength subsystem doesn't give mids either) so I'm thinking HMLs will be better even though there's a 200 EFT DPS difference. I guess you can fit Rigor rigs but then you get super crappy range (my EFT fit has range rigs and I get about 40km with that). But maybe the Tengu is so fast that the range isn't an issue? With HAMs I run into PG issues though so I can't fit a faction AB for more speed Anyway, since you're flying one, how much damage does the speed mitigate? I'll only have a few minutes of sustained 350-ish tank on the low resists and I'm hoping that will be enough It very much will depend on the mission. I've been fiddling with EFT, and it is my belief that running a set-up with the cap regeneration matrix is the way to do this. This is because you can strap on a large booster to make up for your lack of tanking slots. If you go all out, and fit 2 backups and 2 ECCM, its enough to mitigate your inflated sig with using rage, and with HAMS it clocks in at a pretty good 698 dps. Tankwise... ok its less than you'd like, especially against EM based damage, but you will definitely be able to tank guristas forever, and everything else should be ok, but keep an eye on it. The fit is: [Tengu, New Setup 5] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Gravimetric Backup Array II Gravimetric Backup Array II ECCM - Gravimetric II ECCM - Gravimetric II Domination 10MN Afterburner Large Shield Booster II Hardener Hardener Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node The booster permaruns, and you should be ok. Don't take that as being complete truth, because I haven't tested it, but still. It looks doable. If you don't want to use rage, then you can drop the second backup array for a DCU, for better tankiness. The whole situation changes if you have talons however, you to drop an ECCM instead, still leaving you very unprobable, and with the extra mid to fit a painter or a boost amp. The drop to navy terrors isn't huge, and for the sake of keeping your baby alive, i think is worth it.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.11 02:51:00 - [36] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 11/11/2009 02:51:19 Originally by: Wes Gunn If, however, you've got a workable fit for a dual painter 6x HAM 4x CN BCU +decent tank tengu post it. I've updated the fit in the post. Only 5x HAM tho.
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.11.11 06:25:00 - [37] Edited by: Katarlia Simov on 11/11/2009 06:27:09 Originally by: Tau Cabalander Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 11/11/2009 02:51:19 Originally by: Wes Gunn If, however, you've got a workable fit for a dual painter 6x HAM 4x CN BCU +decent tank tengu post it. I've updated the fit in the post. Only 5x HAM tho. The real problem with a fit with 6 HAMs is the lack of power grid that basically forces you to fit a small booster, and the NEED for a painter gimps out your tanking. However if you fit amp node, accelerated ejection, augmented cap, fuel catalyst and dissolusion sequencer, then fitting a pithum medium booster, you get a better tank than I currently run (pithi small and boost amp) while creating another low. An extra navy BCU on top of implants and rage gives you a thoroughly manly 988 dps. However.... Its gunna cost you a LOT to make that switch. Minimum of 500 mil. For an extra 62 dps. I don't think its worth it. Now sure, some people can afford that kinda money for what ammounts to a 6% increase. Yeah i guess 6% is still 6% but come on... you have to stop somewhere. Otherwise you'll end up putting estamel invuls and bcus on , and it still won't REALLY improve performance. If anyone is interested btw, with 4 estamel BCUs, you get 1050 dps.
NoNah	Posted - 2009.11.11 06:34:00 - [38] Originally by: Katarlia Simov The real problem with a fit with 6 HAMs is the lack of power grid that basically forces you to fit a small booster, and the NEED for a painter gimps out your tanking. However if you fit amp node, accelerated ejection, augmented cap, fuel catalyst and dissolusion sequencer, then fitting a pithum medium booster, you get a better tank than I currently run (pithi small and boost amp) while creating another low. An extra navy BCU on top of implants and rage gives you a thoroughly manly 988 dps. However.... Its gunna cost you a LOT to make that switch. Minimum of 500 mil. For an extra 62 dps. I don't think its worth it. Now sure, some people can afford that kinda money for what ammounts to a 6% increase. Yeah i guess 6% is still 6% but come on... you have to stop somewhere. Otherwise you'll end up putting estamel invuls and bcus on , and it still won't REALLY improve performance. If anyone is interested btw, with 4 estamel BCUs, you get 1050 dps. The rule is pretty simple. Cost is irrelevant and you should use the best equipment possible at all times - as long as it doesn't put you at risk for suicide ganking. The later part obviously varies from pilot to pilot, system to system, ship to ship. As for the actual setups, if you're not running fuel caches and thrusters, flare rigs will do you much more good than CCC's. You simply shouldn't need defensive rigs, let alone three of them. While I admitably love target painters and everything like it, they have a long cycle time, which is quite expensive on a ham tengu. All in favor of the flares. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 619216
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.11.11 07:04:00 - [39] Originally by: NoNah The rule is pretty simple. Cost is irrelevant and you should use the best equipment possible at all times - as long as it doesn't put you at risk for suicide ganking. The later part obviously varies from pilot to pilot, system to system, ship to ship. As for the actual setups, if you're not running fuel caches and thrusters, flare rigs will do you much more good than CCC's. You simply shouldn't need defensive rigs, let alone three of them. While I admitably love target painters and everything like it, they have a long cycle time, which is quite expensive on a ham tengu. All in favor of the flares. I do agree with you about the rigs, but dropping a launcher makes the tengu basically not worth flying. Compared to the other pimp mission ships, the damage becomes pretty lacklustre, at MUCH lower range. For example, you do only marginally more damage than a cruise CNRs launchers. And what with it having drones on top of that ... Its just not as good a prospect.
Kail Storm Caldari Dark Taboo	Posted - 2009.11.11 07:16:00 - [40] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Originally by: Col Angus L4 Mission Tengu: Originally by: Col Angus I also fly this in 8/10 and 10/10 complexes... Originally by: Col Angus STFU just long enough to really think about what you're saying... Yeah but lug man I normally agree 100% of the time with u, but in this case 1.]U can only fit all rigors with perfest fitting skills without needing CCC`s or pwr grid rigs, mine is 1 ccc 1 rigor 1 EM 2.]With some of my fits like against giristas/angels I fit 2 painters and split missle groups to wipe em out redic fast, or super hard angels. 3]You lose the ability to add ROF rigs also if you so choose. Basically 3 rigors sounds good but in practice its harder than that due to needing all lvl 5 just to be cap stable with a weak shield booster, without ccc its very hard. Also I`d rather use em t ohelp plug my 0% to 35% em gap with rig. Also can you shoot furys at cruiser with 3 rigors? Im not sure Also lastly its not good for fitting hams which I love also I need my boat to be a multipurpose one, so ccc/EM/Extender are great for what I need. Or ACR is a must need with lower fitting skills. IM just not to sold on all 3 rigors maybe using 1-2 is cool but I like my painter or 2 of em. If you run, You`ll only die tired :)

Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.11.11 07:38:00 - [41] Edited by: Katarlia Simov on 11/11/2009 07:44:25 Currently I only NEED two CCCs, mainly becuase I don't have max cap skills on the character who flies my tengu. Although its cap stable with one CCC with specific hardeners, with invuls its less so. That'll change eventually. When I max the cap skills and have two more rigs to play with, I'll be going for range rigs not rigors/flares. Rigors don't work on HAMs for a start, and flares aren't going to do a great deal. For frig popping, the problem is the sig. The best way to mitigate that is to pop them on MWD , and so range will actually work out best, because the sooner you can start shooting them, the more of them you can slap while they are MWDing. I think that the classic mission approach of 'JUST enough tank to survive and then PILE ON THE GANK' works really well with a tengu, because you can put out really punishing DPS that does full damage to cruisers and that just superb. You can wipe a spawn really fast. For example in worlds collide, going into the serpentis room, my tank has problems handling the first auto-aggro spawn, because i get webbed very quickly, however, you can just SHRED all the bs and cruisers. I've never gone below 2/3s shield before enough stuff is dead to go back to managable levels. I really don't agree with the use of an EM rig. For sansha, you are best off throwing on 3 EM hardners, which means your rig won't be doing a whole lot, and against anything else, invul fields take care of it, becuase although there is some EM damage, its normally third at least.
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:00:00 - [42] One question. When using HML If you using target painter isn't explosion velocity rig ,Flare I believe better, on the tengu then the rigors. I think most ppl just coming from a raven assume rigors but the signature especially when painted is not such an issue then the speed reduction. Since you shoting cruiser sized missiles and even furys have low enough sig when the target is single painted.
Arcirya	Posted - 2009.11.11 10:50:00 - [43] Thanks for the reply Simov I do have Talons, so I can make due with 2 ECCMs in the mids OR 1 ECCM in the mids and 1 in the lows if I don't use T2 ammo. CN missiles cost a lot more though and you really need CN launchers to make the most of them. I can't make up my mind on that either =/ Here's my preliminary fit: [Tengu, HML] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Domination 10MN Afterburner Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Domination Ballistic Deflection Field Domination Heat Dissipation Field Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Faction damage mods because it's always worth it on mission ships. Hardeners because of cap usage (they're cheap anyway), and same thing for the named ECCM (they have the same bonuses as the T2 ones). Faction AB for cap usage and quite a bit of extra speed. The booster really costs too much, but I'll be able to sell it back hopefully. I don't see a way around not fitting it It's not cap stable but runs for 6-7 minutes.
Noemi Nagano	Posted - 2009.11.11 11:06:00 - [44] I use a 3 slot-Tank (Cn Invul, CN SBA, Pithi B-Type small booster) most of the time (and 2 of the rigs also help with tank: ccc and cdos), rest of my mids is AB, TP and whatever i like. Lows full bcs, 1 rigor rig, 6 HML - nice, fast and able to do ALL l4s solo, and fast it does them. I prefer to fly against Serps, EoM and Gurista though, since they are best done with kin-ammo anyway. Used the ship with a more tank setup (meds full with tank, skipping ab and so on) in a Serpentis L5 with no neuts - worked great too.
NoNah	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:14:00 - [45] Edited by: NoNah on 11/11/2009 12:16:34 Originally by: Katarlia Simov I do agree with you about the rigs, but dropping a launcher makes the tengu basically not worth flying. Compared to the other pimp mission ships, the damage becomes pretty lacklustre, at MUCH lower range. For example, you do only marginally more damage than a cruise CNRs launchers. And what with it having drones on top of that ... Its just not as good a prospect. Dropping a launcher is a whole new can of worms. If that's even considered, I see no reason to fly a tengu what so ever. Personally, I see no point in a ham tengu either, as the golem does pretty much everything a ham tengu does, but better. The HML tengu does serve some rare purposes. Originally by: Pod Amarr One question. When using HML If you using target painter isn't explosion velocity rig ,Flare I believe better, on the tengu then the rigors. I think most ppl just coming from a raven assume rigors but the signature especially when painted is not such an issue then the speed reduction. Since you shoting cruiser sized missiles and even furys have low enough sig when the target is single painted. By design the missile formula allows you to compensate low explosion velocity by low explosion radius. If your missile is fast enough to match the targets velocity, you won't gain anything by having more explosion velocity. If it's not fast enough, you can compensate for the difference and still deal full damage by having a much smaller explosion radius than their signature radius. Only reason to ever use flares is when rigors doesn't work - unguided missiles. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 894497
Talio ZomB	Posted - 2009.11.11 12:40:00 - [46] Edited by: Talio ZomB on 11/11/2009 12:42:52 I ran 6 heavy missle launchers 10MN, pith B small, 3 hards, cap recharger 4 cn bcs t2 bay loading, anti em, ant exp this tanked everything up to AE bonus, Output dmg is 841 with maxed skills + implants + rig + scourge fury scourge. swapped the mids for 5 amps 1 LSE, tanked lvl 5s vs gallente without logistical support (123K EHP 200+ dps tank vs 50% kin 50% therm distribution) vs mini/angels I needed at least 1 large Xfer worth so not bad. so your setup will be fine for lvl 4s
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.11.11 13:23:00 - [47] You all emphasize too much on tanking...4 slot tanking and even 3 slot tanking on tengu should not be problem /+ ab ofc/. Tanking with deadspace small booster definately isnt problem - i tanked through angel extravaganza bonus with gisti b small - yes, angel sentries were slowly cutting my buffer /invul + exp hardener/, but when i realized its only sentries hitting me, they died in 2 mins. To make it clear /once again/ - when you are in orbit and webbers are dead, npc bses cant hit you, shortrange npcs cant hit you and missiles do loltastic damage to you. Sentries can hit you even when you are abing, but they die so fast, they arent even worth mentioning. Originally by: Kail Storm Also can you shoot furys at cruiser with 3 rigors? Im not sure I am - this was with 3x t1 rigors and +3% expl radius implant. [ 2009.11.02 15:11:25 ] (combat) <color=0xff99bb00>Group of Scourge Fury Heavy Missile hit Arch Gistum Defeater for <b>598</b> damage [ 2009.11.02 15:11:29 ] (combat) <color=0xff99bb00>Group of Scourge Fury Heavy Missile hit Arch Gistum Defeater for <b>598</b> damage [ 2009.11.02 15:11:34 ] (combat) <color=0xff99bb00>Group of Scourge Fury Heavy Missile hit Arch Gistum Defeater for <b>598</b> damage ... Also if you sometimes do more/less damage to the target, dont forget about defenders or different resists on armor/hull. And if you want to use ham and hml tengu for different missions with high efficiency, just buy another hull and rig it with different rigs. Fitting problems can be most of the time solved with fitting faction/deadspace/cosmos modules, to make it unprobable /and still very efficient/ just use talons or halos.
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.11.11 17:42:00 - [48] Originally by: NoNah Edited by: NoNah on 11/11/2009 12:16:34 Originally by: Katarlia Simov I do agree with you about the rigs, but dropping a launcher makes the tengu basically not worth flying. Compared to the other pimp mission ships, the damage becomes pretty lacklustre, at MUCH lower range. For example, you do only marginally more damage than a cruise CNRs launchers. And what with it having drones on top of that ... Its just not as good a prospect. Dropping a launcher is a whole new can of worms. If that's even considered, I see no reason to fly a tengu what so ever. Personally, I see no point in a ham tengu either, as the golem does pretty much everything a ham tengu does, but better. The HML tengu does serve some rare purposes. Actually your dead wrong there. 930 dps at 180 radius is pretty ****ing awesome. Also the tengu actually tanks harder. I mean, assuming you spend an equal amount of isk on pimping the tank, the tengu rocks all over the golem, because its sig and speed mitigate such a rediculous amount of damage. Also, my tengu cost less than my golem when I bought it a month or more ago, and now the price differance is even more pronounced. Yes, the golem does do more damage on paper, but its also slow to move, slow to lock and is not able to dictate range, which means screwing around switching between jav and rage, which is alway going to futz with your dps. I mean im still not saying that the tengu is better, but it sure as hell competes really well against a golem, and if you are on a budget or want something thats more fun to fly, then teh tengu is what you want.
Jessica Fyers Gallente Azure Horizon	Posted - 2009.11.11 18:44:00 - [49] Also, as many ppl both here and on other threads have said, making it unprobable is a great way to return to lowsec mission running. Sure it wont be as fast as either Golem or CNR, but will do its one job admirably imho. ---------------------------------------------- Some people say you should fight fire with fire... Nonsense of course; you should fight everything with fire!
NoNah	Posted - 2009.11.11 21:48:00 - [50] Originally by: Katarlia Simov Originally by: NoNah Edited by: NoNah on 11/11/2009 12:16:34 Originally by: Katarlia Simov I do agree with you about the rigs, but dropping a launcher makes the tengu basically not worth flying. Compared to the other pimp mission ships, the damage becomes pretty lacklustre, at MUCH lower range. For example, you do only marginally more damage than a cruise CNRs launchers. And what with it having drones on top of that ... Its just not as good a prospect. Dropping a launcher is a whole new can of worms. If that's even considered, I see no reason to fly a tengu what so ever. Personally, I see no point in a ham tengu either, as the golem does pretty much everything a ham tengu does, but better. The HML tengu does serve some rare purposes. Actually your dead wrong there. 930 dps at 180 radius is pretty ****ing awesome. Also the tengu actually tanks harder. I mean, assuming you spend an equal amount of isk on pimping the tank, the tengu rocks all over the golem, because its sig and speed mitigate such a rediculous amount of damage. Also, my tengu cost less than my golem when I bought it a month or more ago, and now the price differance is even more pronounced. Yes, the golem does do more damage on paper, but its also slow to move, slow to lock and is not able to dictate range, which means screwing around switching between jav and rage, which is alway going to futz with your dps. I mean im still not saying that the tengu is better, but it sure as hell competes really well against a golem, and if you are on a budget or want something thats more fun to fly, then teh tengu is what you want. We won't get very far on comparing figures alone. However, the golem does get longer range. It also gets MUCH higher damage. And the tank is null and void since it tanks "enough". But really, feel free to pick out a mission where you think the ham tengu will be optimal, time it and then let us compare that instead. And then pit that to a HML Tengu or a torp golem. What I meant by my last post - where I apparantley am dead wrong, is of course that I can't see any scenario where the Ham Tengu would be best, however I know the HML tengu is faster than torp golem in a fair few missions. In isk/hour, I've yet to see a tengu compete at all. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 44277

demonfurbie Minmatar Covert-Nexus	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:24:00 - [51] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Katarlia Simov Originally by: NoNah Edited by: NoNah on 11/11/2009 12:16:34 Originally by: Katarlia Simov I do agree with you about the rigs, but dropping a launcher makes the tengu basically not worth flying. Compared to the other pimp mission ships, the damage becomes pretty lacklustre, at MUCH lower range. For example, you do only marginally more damage than a cruise CNRs launchers. And what with it having drones on top of that ... Its just not as good a prospect. Dropping a launcher is a whole new can of worms. If that's even considered, I see no reason to fly a tengu what so ever. Personally, I see no point in a ham tengu either, as the golem does pretty much everything a ham tengu does, but better. The HML tengu does serve some rare purposes. Actually your dead wrong there. 930 dps at 180 radius is pretty ****ing awesome. Also the tengu actually tanks harder. I mean, assuming you spend an equal amount of isk on pimping the tank, the tengu rocks all over the golem, because its sig and speed mitigate such a rediculous amount of damage. Also, my tengu cost less than my golem when I bought it a month or more ago, and now the price differance is even more pronounced. Yes, the golem does do more damage on paper, but its also slow to move, slow to lock and is not able to dictate range, which means screwing around switching between jav and rage, which is alway going to futz with your dps. I mean im still not saying that the tengu is better, but it sure as hell competes really well against a golem, and if you are on a budget or want something thats more fun to fly, then teh tengu is what you want. We won't get very far on comparing figures alone. However, the golem does get longer range. It also gets MUCH higher damage. And the tank is null and void since it tanks "enough". But really, feel free to pick out a mission where you think the ham tengu will be optimal, time it and then let us compare that instead. And then pit that to a HML Tengu or a torp golem. What I meant by my last post - where I apparantley am dead wrong, is of course that I can't see any scenario where the Ham Tengu would be best, however I know the HML tengu is faster than torp golem in a fair few missions. In isk/hour, I've yet to see a tengu compete at all. a fairer comparison would be heavy missile tengu v a cruise golem and a ham tengu vs a torp golem
NoNah	Posted - 2009.11.11 23:56:00 - [52] Originally by: demonfurbie a fairer comparison would be heavy missile tengu v a cruise golem and a ham tengu vs a torp golem No, not really. My point is there are missions where the HML tengu excels, there are missions where the Torp Golem excels, there are missions where the cruise CNR excels. I however have a hard time finding missions where the HAM Tengu, Cruise Golem or Torp CNR excels. I find HAM Tengus to be as hard to justify as cruise golems or torp CNR's - there's simply other ships performing the same tasks much better. Or well, maybe not all tasks, I can see a remote and narrow scenario where you want specific attributes of a ship such as interdiction nullifiers or very fast travel times and thus can compensate for all other shortfalls. But generally.. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 980865
demonfurbie Minmatar Covert-Nexus	Posted - 2009.11.12 01:13:00 - [53] just asking but why would you compair guided missiles to unguided
NoNah	Posted - 2009.11.12 01:33:00 - [54] Originally by: demonfurbie just asking but why would you compair guided missiles to unguided Because the testcase stipulates a set scenario, with variable tools. If I need to find out what vehicle can travel a certain distance the fastest I will have a plethora of vehicles to test, in some cases an all terrain vehicle will win, others a formula one car and in some a street racer. While all three excels at something, it'd seem odd to sme to compare a all terrain vehicle with a formula one car. That said, a recreational vehicle probably isn't very suited for the scenario at hand, even if it's got other strengths. An ice cream-van won't generally win in speed, but it's got other feats that makes it awesome even for the task at hand. Testing guided to unguided missiles makes as much sense as testing pulse lasers to beam lasers. Does that seem odd to you? Parrots, commence! Postcount: 955995
Wes Gunn	Posted - 2009.11.12 14:07:00 - [55] Alright this is the fit I think I'll use based on what I've learned: 6x HAM II Pithi A-Type Small Booster Caldari Navy SBA 2x Hardeners to match, in an invuln is required it'll be CN 2x RF Target Painters 3x CN BCUs CCC I Rocket Feul Cache Partition I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Defensive - Amplification Node Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Implants: Full HG Crystal set (already plugged in my clone :-P) ZME2000 CC8 KTB-75 ZMM1000 926 dps w/ Terror Rage and a pretty decent tank between the deadspace small booster, crystals, SBA and Amplification Node.


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