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Redyll
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Posted - 2009.09.30 12:43:00 -
[1]
I know the Caracal isnt a good solo pvp ship. But could this setup work VS other frigates and Cruisers ? Is the webber a must have ?
-------------------------------------- Low Slots: Damage Control II Low Slots: Ballistic Control System II -------------------------------------- Med Slots: Large Shield Exteder II Med Slots: Large Shield Exteder II Med Slots: 10MN Afterburner II Med Slots: Warp Disruptor II Med Slots: Invulnerability Field II ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- High Slot: Assualt Missile Launcher II, Ammo: Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile High Slot: Assualt Missile Launcher II, Ammo: Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile High Slot: Assualt Missile Launcher II, Ammo: Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile High Slot: Assualt Missile Launcher II, Ammo: Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile High Slot: Assualt Missile Launcher II, Ammo: Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rig Slots: Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Rig Slots: Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Rig Slots: Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I -------------------------------------------
EFT numbers :p Firepower: 142 Volley: 650 Mobility 537m/s Cap stable 51% Shield passive tank: 64
Shield resistances: EM: 62,5% Thermal: 63,8% Kinetic: 63,3% Explosive: 69,4%
Shield HP: 8516 Effective HP: 30589
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.30 12:48:00 -
[2]
[Caracal, Leeroy] Ballistic Control System I Ballistic Control System I
Medium Shield Extender I Medium Shield Extender I 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Stasis Webifier I Warp Disruptor I
Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher I, Sabretooth Light Missile
This works vs all frigs, dessies, some cruisers and idiot ravens, yours will struggle to keep hold of small targets and dictate range.
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Redyll
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Posted - 2009.09.30 12:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Redyll on 30/09/2009 12:50:16 I have thought on ur fitting also, before you did post it but the more dps from ur fitt is better than a better tank ? hm hard choice :p
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.30 12:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Redyll Edited by: Redyll on 30/09/2009 12:50:16 I have thought on ur fitting also, before you did post it but the more dps from ur fitt is better than a better tank ? hm hard choice :p
Its the tackle and MWD that makes it all work Yours is more suited to fleet work where tackle is not as important.
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Redyll
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Posted - 2009.09.30 12:59:00 -
[5]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Redyll Edited by: Redyll on 30/09/2009 12:50:16 I have thought on ur fitting also, before you did post it but the more dps from ur fitt is better than a better tank ? hm hard choice :p
Its the tackle and MWD that makes it all work Yours is more suited to fleet work where tackle is not as important.
Ok this one then ?
-------------------------------------- Low Slots: Ballistic Control System II Low Slots: Ballistic Control System II -------------------------------------- Med Slots: Large Shield Extender II Med Slots: Large Shield Extender II Med Slots: 10MN MicroWarpDrive II Med Slots: Warp Disruptor II Med Slots: Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- High Slot: Assualt Missile Launcher II, Ammo: Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile High Slot: Assualt Missile Launcher II, Ammo: Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile High Slot: Assualt Missile Launcher II, Ammo: Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile High Slot: Assualt Missile Launcher II, Ammo: Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile High Slot: Assualt Missile Launcher II, Ammo: Caldari Navy Sabretooth Light Missile ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rig Slots: Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Rig Slots: Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Rig Slots: Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I -------------------------------------------
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.30 12:59:00 -
[6]
Caracal can do something very good, buts its very spesific. Makeing a general purpouse Caracal is like begging to die horribly in a flame :).
First you need to decide what you want your caracal to do. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Rip Striker
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Posted - 2009.09.30 13:00:00 -
[7]
To the OP:
If it was my Caracal I would replace the AB, invul and disruptor for a mwd, scram and web. It is an awesomme frigate size ship killer.
If you want to add more dps, replace one or two assault launchers for heavy assault launchers. Works wonders. It also makes i a decent cruiser gang ship.
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Bobby Bobster
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Posted - 2009.09.30 13:06:00 -
[8]
I think you have the basic idea going, but I would drop a LSE for a web and the DC for another BCS.
Your fitting AMLs so your prey of choice is going to be frigs T1 + T2 dessies and some cruisers (not all!!!)
As such 2x LSE is really overtanking and given that PvP frigs will be speedtanking you a web is pretty inportant.
If you want to take on cruisers your going to need to fit HAMs which given the pg needs will gimp your tank a bit (which is why like you said not a great pvp ship)
The AML caracal is a excellent anti-frig platform though I think it is a fit which has become more popular so frig pilots are a little more wary these days about engaging.
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rubico1337
Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.09.30 13:09:00 -
[9]
yes definitely on the right track to kill tons and tons of frigs, although id find a way to get a MWD and a web on there instead of a AB, ancillary current routers are your friend
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Redyll
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Posted - 2009.09.30 13:20:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Redyll on 30/09/2009 13:22:11 thnx alot for all feedback im gonna make this ship and test it out (: one more thing is there any point to use 2 ECM drones or shall I just use 2 Hoboglins II instead ?
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.30 13:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Redyll Edited by: Redyll on 30/09/2009 13:22:11 thnx alot for all feedback im gonna make this ship and test it out (: one more thing is there any point to use 2 ECM drones or shall I just use 2 Hoboglins II instead ?
Entirely up to you, both are as usefull.
Welcome to the caracal club
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.09.30 14:14:00 -
[12]
Caracal, great for killing frigs... suicide for going after Cruisers.
Most frigs will run from you before you get a chance to kill them.
Basically, it is Caldari, so it automatically fails at solo-PVP
Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |
Glaceon
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Posted - 2009.09.30 16:49:00 -
[13]
Personally I would go for 1 shield extender, AB, dual-web + scram. You don't need massively more tank then your target... what you need to do is keep them from getting away.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 30/09/2009 17:32:27
Originally by: Redyll Edited by: Redyll on 30/09/2009 13:22:11 thnx alot for all feedback im gonna make this ship and test it out (: one more thing is there any point to use 2 ECM drones or shall I just use 2 Hoboglins II instead ?
Think of the typical resists of your AF victims - Jaguar, Harpy, Ishkur. Don't use Hobgoblins, use Warriors. ECM drones are also fine though. And ffs don't use kinetic missiles against Gallente or Caldari AFs.
Also, AB ona fragile AML Caracal is suicide as soon as another cruiser appears, and scrambler is basically pointless against most AFs, as they mostly use ABs. MWD, LSE, web, disruptor, then a second LSE or a second web, depending on your attitude. I fit a second web.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:55:00 -
[15]
Wait, you use warriors because of resists?
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.30 18:09:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 30/09/2009 18:15:40
[Caracal, gank-no tank] Reactor Control Unit II Ballistic Control System II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Medium Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Warp Scrambler II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I
Hornet EC-300 x2
300 dps/ 10K EHP Pulse MWD, kill it fast, GTFO
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.09.30 18:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tagami Wasp [Caracal, gank-no tank]
No. Only viable caracal fit atm is aml cara /and sometimes hml sniper with some ewar/.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.30 18:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega Wait, you use warriors because of resists?
And speed and tracking, obviously. But I thought that that guy might find it easier to understand why Warriors were superior by offering a simple-to-understand example of resists modifying raw damage, rather than the more abstract factors of speed and tracking.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.09.30 18:51:00 -
[19]
It might just be me but I've watched the usefulness of t1 cruisers go down the drain over the last half year. The agility nerf hit them particularly hard. At this part you should almost always be in a battlecruiser instead.
I agree with people who note that flying anything other than an AML Caracal is kind of suck, and an AML Caracal only has a very specific purpose, but ships like the Rupture, Thorax, and Vexor which beat it in combat don't seem to be flavor of the month for anybody.
Battlecruisers are now the default mid size combat ship. The survivability difference between a battlecruiser and a cruiser against overwhelming odds is minimal. Both classes die if they jump into a interceptor and simply try to warp away. The difference is even less because the nice combat cruisers fit 1600mm or 800mm armor plates while battlecruisers can easily fit a shield tank and nanofibers.
So if you're going to fly a Caracal go with the AML setup. Don't worry about beating other cruisers. Worry about killing one t2 frigate worth 2 or 3 times yourself and being cost effective.
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Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.30 19:01:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 30/09/2009 19:03:52
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Tagami Wasp [Caracal, gank-no tank]
No. Only viable caracal fit atm is aml cara /and sometimes hml sniper with some ewar/.
Solo HML sniper... Sensei, teach me the mind trick that prevents opponents from warping away. AML also means you only go against frigs/ ceptors. AFs will laugh and proceed to shred you.
Harpy does 260 dps to the 170 of the AML, Ishkur 240 to the 170 of the AML caracal... etc.
What makes you think that you will survive vs one in that fit? There is an AML Cara fit that does survive, but it you have to figure it out by yourself.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.09.30 19:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Tagami Wasp [Caracal, gank-no tank]
No. Only viable caracal fit atm is aml cara /and sometimes hml sniper with some ewar/.
Solo HML sniper... Sensei, teach me the mind trick that prevents opponents from warping away. AML also means you only go against frigs/ ceptors. AFs will laugh and proceed to shred you.
Harpy does 260 dps to the 170 of the AML, Ishkur 240 to the 170 of the AML caracal... etc.
What makes you think that you will survive vs one?
Idk, maybe having several times their ehp and a med neut? Little things like that.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.09.30 19:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega
Originally by: Tagami Wasp
What makes you think that you will survive vs one?
Idk, maybe having several times their ehp and a med neut? Little things like that.
/ thread. Med neut is the whole trick, not the EHP. If they can't run or fire, you win. If they can apply the dps, you're toast.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.30 19:54:00 -
[23]
The med neut is a nice touch, but frankly it's not necessary. Those "260, 240 DPS" numbers are EFT bull****, bearing minimal resemblance to PVP reality, because they can only be applied at point-blank range which is hard to get to, particularly when the Caracal is applying its ~200 DPS from the start of the fight and is manoeuvring at over 1 km/s. And even then the Caracal easily wins the EHP vs. DPS race.
In any case, the vulnerability of AFs to neuts is not exactly a revelation, and any AF worth its salt will fit a cap booster or a small nos, particularly if the AB patch goes through.
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Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.01 03:43:00 -
[24]
Remember though that those 170 dps is Kin, which both of the AFs I mention have at 70%+ resists. As far as AB vs MWD, you got a point, but after Dominion, that goes away. W/out a med nut, going against AFs in a Caracal is a death wish.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.10.01 08:27:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 01/10/2009 08:31:03
Originally by: Tagami Wasp Remember though that those 170 dps is Kin, which both of the AFs I mention have at 70%+ resists. As far as AB vs MWD, you got a point, but after Dominion, that goes away. W/out a med nut, going against AFs in a Caracal is a death wish.
That's why you don't use kinetic, duh.
Anyway, you're flat wrong. I've never used a med neut on an AML Caracal, but I've never lost a 1v1 or even 1v2 vs AFs. And I've killed dozens of them. They die so quickly that the med neut wouldn't be of much use even if if they didn't have a cap injector or nos, and there's a good chance that losing 20% of the missile DPS would actually cause them to live longer.
I've cooked up crazy dual-rep Vengeances that can tank a Caracal all day. Here, a neut would be useful. But those kind of big-active tank fits would have a cap booster anyway, and you simply don't see supertanked Vengeances and Hawks in game. You see Ishkurs, Jags and Harpies.
The med neut is a nice touch but less useful than it appears.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.10.01 10:27:00 -
[26]
Tagami, if you think t1 cruiser with 300dps and lol 10k ehp is ok, fly it, but why you are suggesting such **** to other ppl?
Hml caracal - viable sniper, 250 dps at 100km with 10s delay. I never said its for solo.
Aml caracal... perfect frig killer. I havent met frig that can tank 220 dps yet. And yes, its purpose is not destroying cruisers, it will die to a decent cruiser easily, but so will do your lolfit Tagami /the only exception is that you will die to frigs too/.
If you really want to use hmls/hams on cara and kite your target, you need cap booster too, or you will cap out long before targets buffer is gone. But imo it wont work... caracal is too slow for this, 100 m/s is no difference...
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Fastbikkel
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2009.10.01 10:48:00 -
[27]
Well, i would fit a double sensor dampner or triple ecm.
I would want to make sure the other guy cant shoot at me, cos a caracal goes down quick when attacked. MWD as well, you might have to fit a Processor (to upgrade your CPU) in low.
This is something i would use to solo pvp in lowsec.
-If the enemy is in range, so are you- |
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