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Neriel Odershank
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:05:00 -
[1]
People whine becouse ninja salvagers are ruining their missions, salvaging "their" own wrecks and making free isks with no risk. But CCP said that a wreck is of 'everyone and nobody', that means that if i destroy a ship the wreck is not MINE, but everyone can freely and safely salvage it.
Uhm, ok, that's fine. But then, explain me why if i try to activate a tractor beam on a wreck i get this message:
Notify The Small Tractor Beam I cannot engage a tractor beam on that object as it is not owned by you, a fellow fleet member or another member of a player corporation you belong to.
WOW.... that sounds to me like i cannot use a tractor beam on a wreck if it is not mine, but.. i can use a salvager becouse it is of everyone.
Err.... wtf?
I'm not whining or anything, i simply think that there is something not working here and it should be fixed like this:
1. Allow the use of tractor beams on any wrecks (they are of nobody after all, that means that they are of anyone)
or
2. Deny the use the salvagers on the wrecks that do not belong to the pilot activating the module (the previous message says that the wreck is not owned by me after all)
Any of those 2 will do just fine, but one is needed imo, else, it does not makes any sense and all the missioners (but 'station pvpers' too tbh) deserves the right to whine.
What do you think?
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:09:00 -
[2]
I think tractor beams should stop a pilot from redocking And now I need to take a 5 minute nap before I have the energy to post again. |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:10:00 -
[3]
I think this topic has been done to death. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Louis deGuerre
Gallente The Rise of The Dragon Knights Void Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:13:00 -
[4]
Yesterday I used a tractor beam and it pushed a wreck away from my ship. Very strange. --- Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenĘt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Nicole KholdStare
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:35:00 -
[5]
I think this mechanic exists so that there can be no shennanigans with 2 tractor beams on one wreck and the resulting calculations on trajectory the server would have to do.
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Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:36:00 -
[6]
you forgot option 3:
Edit the tractor beam pop up warning text so it doesnt cuase confusion.
I like your argeument tho, its very well thought out, and it will be interesting to see how the usual "Forum warriors" handle it
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Wulf Tarkin
Gallente Sons of Apathy
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:40:00 -
[7]
I use my tractor beam for ploughing.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:42:00 -
[8]
This reminds me of the small bug where occasionally when initiating a tractor beam the wreck will appear within looting range for less than a second allowing you to open the wreck and see what is inside
I've tried reproducing this but its literally 1 in a 10000 times and i really don't feel like running logserver all day while tractoring wrecks all over the place for a bug report. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Blane Xero This reminds me of the small bug where occasionally when initiating a tractor beam the wreck will appear within looting range for less than a second allowing you to open the wreck and see what is inside
That sound awfully related to the much more common bug where, when you first apply the tractors, the wreck will suddenly appear in the exact opposite direction of where it should be, then snap back and start travelling towards you. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Blane Xero This reminds me of the small bug where occasionally when initiating a tractor beam the wreck will appear within looting range for less than a second allowing you to open the wreck and see what is inside
That sound awfully related to the much more common bug where, when you first apply the tractors, the wreck will suddenly appear in the exact opposite direction of where it should be, then snap back and start travelling towards you.
Yep. Get that one almost all the time. Could be to do with other objects in the scene or something _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:51:00 -
[11]
It works this way because a wreck can also contain loot, and the loot is considered the property of a specific player. The slightly confusing message arises because a wreck can have both owned and unowned elements within the same item.
Engaging a salvager on a wreck with loot in it poses no problem, because if you salvage the wreck, the loot will just end up in a cargo container instead. So a salvager only affects the unowned part (i.e. the salvage)
Engaging a tractor beam on a wreck is a problem, because you could then run away with the owned loot, as well as the unowned wreck. So a tractor beam affects both the owned and unowned parts of the wreck, and thus must behave as though the wreck as a whole is owned.
In theory, I think it would be ok to allow use of a tractor beam on a wreck which does not contain loot. However, this would make the "can activate" checks more complicated, so may not be feasible from a technical point of view.
Originally by: Nicole KholdStare I think this mechanic exists so that there can be no shennanigans with 2 tractor beams on one wreck and the resulting calculations on trajectory the server would have to do.
There is a separate rule which specifically checks if a tractor beam is already active on the object. It gives a different message to the player (something like "you cannot activate the tractor beam as there is already a tractor beam on that object").
Which actually makes it more important to enforce the "ownership" tractor beam rule, because you can't even have a tug-of-war with the other player for your loot. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
AsheraII
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Posted - 2009.09.26 10:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Joe you forgot option 3:
Edit the tractor beam pop up warning text so it doesnt cuase confusion.
I like your argeument tho, its very well thought out, and it will be interesting to see how the usual "Forum warriors" handle it
"The wreckage is too fragile to handle the strains caused by your tractorbeam" "Object too big for tractorbeam" "The cloud of debris around the wreckage interferes with your tractorbeam"
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Veliria
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Posted - 2009.09.26 11:14:00 -
[13]
Imagine the whines if you could tractor wrecks and cans that aren't yours.
All the carebears would go: "GET BACK HERE, THAT'S MY JETCAN!" while you burn away from their Hulk gang.
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ISHKUR MASTER
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.26 11:19:00 -
[14]
new patch notes in test atm fyi
*Player owned wrecks can now be marked as "Available for all" which prevents CONCORD or criminal repercussions for taking from or destroying free for all wrecks.
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F15T0
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Posted - 2009.09.26 11:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Neriel Odershank People whine becouse ninja salvagers are ruining their missions, salvaging "their" own wrecks and making free isks with no risk. But CCP said that a wreck is of 'everyone and nobody', that means that if i destroy a ship the wreck is not MINE, but everyone can freely and safely salvage it.
Uhm, ok, that's fine. But then, explain me why if i try to activate a tractor beam on a wreck i get this message:
Notify The Small Tractor Beam I cannot engage a tractor beam on that object as it is not owned by you, a fellow fleet member or another member of a player corporation you belong to.
WOW.... that sounds to me like i cannot use a tractor beam on a wreck if it is not mine, but.. i can use a salvager becouse it is of everyone.
Err.... wtf?
I'm not whining or anything, i simply think that there is something not working here and it should be fixed like this:
1. Allow the use of tractor beams on any wrecks (they are of nobody after all, that means that they are of anyone)
or
2. Deny the use the salvagers on the wrecks that do not belong to the pilot activating the module (the previous message says that the wreck is not owned by me after all)
Any of those 2 will do just fine, but one is needed imo, else, it does not makes any sense and all the missioners (but 'station pvpers' too tbh) deserves the right to whine.
What do you think?
Yes and why do you get destroyed by Concord for shooting a that "belongs" to somebody else? and it has nothing to do with any loot the wreck contains because you still get destroyed by Concord if the wreck contains no loot.
For a summery if wrecks "belong" to noone why are you unable to apply a tractor beam to them and why do you destroyed by Concord and recieve a security status penalty for shoot a wreck that contains no loot and "belongs" to noone.
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Neriel Odershank
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Posted - 2009.09.26 11:31:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ISHKUR MASTER new patch notes in test atm fyi
*Player owned wrecks can now be marked as "Available for all" which prevents CONCORD or criminal repercussions for taking from or destroying free for all wrecks.
Ah nice, i missed it. But there should be an option to make them available "for fleet" only, aswell, don't you think?
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Vysnaite
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.09.26 11:35:00 -
[17]
wow nice. This mean I can fly into a guys mission and loot stuff freely? Or if I don't like him, I can shoot faction spawn wrecks and not get concorded?
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ISHKUR MASTER
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.26 11:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Vysnaite wow nice. This mean I can fly into a guys mission and loot stuff freely? Or if I don't like him, I can shoot faction spawn wrecks and not get concorded?
I guess the mission runner needs to enable the function by choice
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SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2009.09.26 11:57:00 -
[19]
There's a simple solution to this... allow anyone to tractor wrecks, but if the 'owner' (or someone in their corp/fleet) puts a tractor on it, they get priority on it and the 'just anyone' can't tractor it unless it is released.
If 'just anyone' tries to tractor a wreck already grabbed by the owner, AURA should chime in with "I can't let you do that, dear.".
On another note, how do you like your pods in the morning? |
Simeon Tor
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Posted - 2009.09.26 12:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Neriel Odershank ..salvaging "their" own wrecks and making free isks with no risk.
Wait a sec.. there's someone out there handing out free ISK? Why was I not informed sooner?!
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Aion Amarra
Minmatar Really Nice And Laidback Corporation
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Posted - 2009.09.26 15:31:00 -
[21]
Imho tractor beams should be engageable on any and all wrecks and jetcans, with the caveat that doing so would net you an agression flag much in the same way as looting/flipping it would.
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Gavriel Black
The League of Retarded Squirrel Monkies
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Posted - 2009.09.26 15:33:00 -
[22]
I would like to see a new skill and module that allows one to plant a salvage bomb.
Thieves who try to salvage from wrecks would get a rude awakening :p
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.09.26 15:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: ISHKUR MASTER
Originally by: Vysnaite wow nice. This mean I can fly into a guys mission and loot stuff freely? Or if I don't like him, I can shoot faction spawn wrecks and not get concorded?
I guess the mission runner needs to enable the function by choice
It will be an option and that is exactly how it should have been from the beginning. Nice change.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.09.26 15:39:00 -
[24]
The same kind of person who'll look for salvage other people have created to take are the same who steal what else they want, and since there's no kill rights for thievery that last any reasonable amount of time in 'high security space' it's pretty much a perfect crime.
That's my only problem with it.
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Discrodia
Gallente Forsaken Mercenaries Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.09.26 15:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nicole KholdStare I think this mechanic exists so that there can be no shennanigans with 2 tractor beams on one wreck and the resulting calculations on trajectory the server would have to do.
Well if you're in the same fleet.....
It's happened to me before and I think it'd be awesome if both ships got pulled in and exploded, but that's just me ________________________________________________
MUFFINS :D |
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