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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Schayol Sunkeeper
Imperial Crusade Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.09.20 01:10:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Chris Reiter
Your follow up suggestion is irrelevant, I am not interested in ****ing Wars: Mesurements of E-peen. EVE is supposed to be an open sandbox where I can do what I want, not what others want me to do. I want to play my game, leave when I have to, and not worry about getting asploded because I went AFK outside of a station for 2 minutes to take a **** while my ship undocks. I prefer not lining the pockets of CEO's who will steal it 99% of the time or spinning in the docking station while I wait for skills to finish. I am not in a player corp and that restricts me already from all activities associated with them, restricting a player thats not in one to T1 ships should mean PC corp players shouldn't be able to take T2 ships into highsec just like capitals.
you didn't answer my question
also judging by your text, eve is not the game for you
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Metalcali
Dreams In Digital
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Posted - 2009.09.20 01:35:00 -
[182]
Edited by: Metalcali on 20/09/2009 01:35:31
Originally by: Schayol Sunkeeper
Originally by: Chris Reiter
Your follow up suggestion is irrelevant, I am not interested in ****ing Wars: Mesurements of E-peen. EVE is supposed to be an open sandbox where I can do what I want, not what others want me to do. I want to play my game, leave when I have to, and not worry about getting asploded because I went AFK outside of a station for 2 minutes to take a **** while my ship undocks. I prefer not lining the pockets of CEO's who will steal it 99% of the time or spinning in the docking station while I wait for skills to finish. I am not in a player corp and that restricts me already from all activities associated with them, restricting a player thats not in one to T1 ships should mean PC corp players shouldn't be able to take T2 ships into highsec just like capitals.
you didn't answer my question
also judging by your text, eve is not the game for you
Ah, I love watching people rage so hard over the game and a few changes, or even ideas. Makes paying the monthly subscription worth it to read these forums ---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Locked.
OP does not contain an idea.
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Brolly
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.20 01:46:00 -
[183]
wow, so many frothing at the mouth
Little will change, those PVP'ers with hard-ons will be bitterly disappoint, PVE'ers will whine hard and a lot of people will not give a damn, such as myself.
A minor inconvenience, yes, big game altering thingum, no.
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Harkwyth Mist
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.09.20 01:51:00 -
[184]
long over due ...
but about 9% too low
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Magosian
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Posted - 2009.09.20 02:24:00 -
[185]
What really irritates me about this change is the fact that the ISK goes into a black hole. If there is a problem with highsec residents making too much ISK, perhaps the source of the ISK needs to be evaluated. If CCP wants to promote player operations outside of highsec space....oh wait, they already did that with wormholes.
I have no problems with a tax, but to throw it away is really a slap in the face.
How about pooling it and giving to alliances/corporations who participate handidly in faction wars? I'd gladly part with some of my ISK if I knew it was going to people who actually need it. It'd be killing two birds with one stone.
I suspect, however, this is just some blanket answer to snuff out inflation caused by the PLEX market.
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Flex Nebura
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.20 02:26:00 -
[186]
There is a lower limit on income tax. low bounty rats and lvl 1 possibly lvl 2 rewards wont get taxed and as such wont affect new players unless they kill fast enough to get a big chunk of bounties in one go. This needs to be looked at and adjusted by the Devs so it wont hurt new players too much.
Older players should suck up the tax hike and stay put. Or find or create an alternative corp or game. Noone is forcing anyone to do anything. Its being suggested that if you dont like the taxes you have options.
There are many nice corps out there and I feel sorry for those that have only had bad experiences. But you dont have to come out and play. Also making a small corp is dead easy and for the most part people will leave you alone. My corp has never been war decced in the close to 3 years its been running. Never had anyone steal ore from me, nor have I been wardecced for stealing other peoples ores. It has also given me the option to test out ship fittings in combat against my corp mates and we have had a few nice pvp fights in low sec when we were so inclined.
Oh and as far as psycotic behavior in player corps. I have seen far worse in npc corp chat and the public channels.
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Flex Nebura
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.20 02:38:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Flex Nebura on 20/09/2009 02:46:51 Clearly most people have no idea how much they are really going to pay in taxes. You wont hardly notice its missing. out of about 30 missions you would be missing out on the bounties of 1 of them. Not that much different than if you got a drone mission. or a courier mission that paid next to nothing anyway... Although some the drone missions do pay damn well once you refine the alloys.
Miners wont notice unless they are mining in low or null sec and are able to kill the cruisers or above that spawn there.
Also another boon of being in a player corp is being able to tractor your corp mates loot cans even if they've gone to get another mission in another system.
Oh and you dont get concordokenned for accidently attacking a gangmember from your corp.
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Rick Skynight
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Posted - 2009.09.20 03:16:00 -
[188]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave I'll put a devblog up on this next week
Oh good a devblog. I'll be interested in seeing how you justify punishing NPC corp members.
I mean wow... For my 11% do I actually get any added benefits? Or am I stuck with the same old "Know-it-all-Alt that comes in to harrass npc corp members about why they aren't in a player corp" perk?
CCP is going to become as twisted as SOE.. I can see it.
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Rick Skynight
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Posted - 2009.09.20 03:24:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Flex Nebura Edited by: Flex Nebura on 20/09/2009 02:46:51 Clearly most people have no idea how much they are really going to pay in taxes. You wont hardly notice its missing. out of about 30 missions you would be missing out on the bounties of 1 of them. Not that much different than if you got a drone mission. or a courier mission that paid next to nothing anyway... Although some the drone missions do pay damn well once you refine the alloys.
Miners wont notice unless they are mining in low or null sec and are able to kill the cruisers or above that spawn there.
Also another boon of being in a player corp is being able to tractor your corp mates loot cans even if they've gone to get another mission in another system.
Oh and you dont get concordokenned for accidently attacking a gangmember from your corp.
Its not about the isk, its about the principle of the matter. People don't like to be told what to do or how to play the game. Player corp people don't need a nudge, what they need is to be allowed to make their own decision on where they want to be and how they want to go about doing it.
Im seeing constant whining from player corpers about how the tax should be more or is long over due. Wow cool.. Pay my subsription and then I'll play the game the way you want.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.09.20 03:51:00 -
[190]
Quote:
Its not about the isk, its about the principle of the matter. People don't like to be told what to do or how to play the game. Player corp people don't need a nudge, what they need is to be allowed to make their own decision on where they want to be and how they want to go about doing it.
CONCORD should be removed in deadspace. I don't like being told that I can't warp into hisec missions and blow up missionrunners. WHy can't I play the game my way?
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Ndidi
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Posted - 2009.09.20 03:59:00 -
[191]
I'm a carebear and proud of it.
11% in the grand scheme of things really is peanuts, so I'll just have to run 1 more mission to get the isk back.
No big deal.
I must admit the whining from all those of you in player corps is quite ammusing though
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Sri Nova
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Posted - 2009.09.20 04:20:00 -
[192]
11% tax is just wrong . The people who support this tax just want to punish those áwho donÆt care to interact with others on a corp lvl due to either time constraints or they just donÆt like people (which there is nothing wrong with).
Rule number 1 of any game isá ôIs it fun?ö
Greif tactics such as this 11% tax (yes I mean greif!) are only meant to force people into positions they do not want to be in ásuch as joining a corp for which they do not have the time to deal with . therefore killing the fun factor.
Yes being in a corp requires time. Time spent interacting and paying attention to what all the idiots are doing. Are we war decced? Is everybody getting along? Can I undock ? Is player John smith to be trusted ? So now your player base who wants nothing to do with thisá has to incur a penalty thatÆs going to cost them around 22 million isk per npc corp personalá wallet based off your QEN . ááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááááá " Average ISK per character wallet varies from 46 mil- lioná ISKá for players withá 1,000 ûá 1,500á login minutes,á toá 1.1á billioná ISKá asá theá character reaches the 100,000 minute mark. The aver- age time playing per character was 2.4 hours a dayá in May. Averageá ISK per walletá takes a signiicantá jump once players passá 15,000 loginá minutes,á whichá meansá thatá afterá ap- proximately 100 days of playing the average character has more than 200 million ISK " á this is a steep price to pay for wanting to be left alone to play the game áwhich is supposed to be fun . but now the player has to grind more trying to make up for this penalty and that is not fun. á Another interesting fact from your QEN " isá theá ISK per wallet by security space. The highest amount of ISK per wallet per character is in nullsec space, with the average character holding 470 million ISK. Playersá in hisec andá lowsec space have similar amounts, but withá lowsec slightly higher. The high amount of average ISK in nullsec can account for the replacement cost of ships due to nullsec warfare and piracy. It is surprising to note that there is hardly any difference between lowsec and hisec." á so those of you who are yelling that carebears in highsec are fat greedy bears that need to be taxed are just plain wrong and need to shut up as it clearly stated that those who live in null sec are the fat ones with all the isk .
The QEN did state how ever that 70% of in game pop is located in high sec.á and obviously ásomeone got the bright idea that a tax would resolve this problem . Well first it is not a problem, you have to realize that some people do not want to deal with corps. Unfortunately it looks like you have a high percentage who feels this way.
Again it is not a problem. á People will join corps when they are ready. This artificial push to move people into a environment that they do not wish to be involved in is short sighted and not fully thought through. CCP has a couple of changes in the pipe that will help get players into corps without a tax .
The sov changes are going to be one of the major factors. Also the ingame browser (albeit unexpected )will definitely have a impact on getting players into corps as access to information will be eaiser.
CCP is going to penalize those casual gamers who play eve for a few hours a week and do not make millions of isk a day . These same players are the type of players that corps do not want as they are unproductive and are usually a hassle to bring up to speed on the fast changing situations that corps are usually involved in.
The last thing you need is a artificial tax that does nothing for the in game community and is only there as a deterrent to those who do not wish to dedicate the required amount of time to be in a player based corp.
ditch the tax and focus your programing resources on other more productive game changes that benefit us all. instead of changes that makes greifers happy.
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Hollonder
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Posted - 2009.09.20 05:06:00 -
[193]
LOL! After reading the majority of the posts on this thread, I can't seem to get the mental image of "feeding time at the 'gator farm" out of my head.
It seems like all the veteran PVP psychos are salivating in unison for the wholesale slaughter rights to the noobs and lite gamers on EvE who now get the choice to either stay in the relative safety of a noob corp where it will be even harder to make any financial headway. OR, join a player corp and constantly have to watch their backs for the people who think killing noobs in their hard earned, ill equipped ships "just because they can" is a fun evening.
What lovely choice.
I for one will stay in my NPC corp. I figure a tax on mission rewards is nothing compared to the cost of replacing ships, equipment, and implants over and over so I'm fine with that. What I don't like however, is the feeling that this tax is some form of punishment for not wanting to be PVP pwnfodder.
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Rick Skynight
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Posted - 2009.09.20 05:11:00 -
[194]
Edited by: Rick Skynight on 20/09/2009 05:13:03
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
Its not about the isk, its about the principle of the matter. People don't like to be told what to do or how to play the game. Player corp people don't need a nudge, what they need is to be allowed to make their own decision on where they want to be and how they want to go about doing it.
CONCORD should be removed in deadspace. I don't like being told that I can't warp into hisec missions and blow up missionrunners. WHy can't I play the game my way?
If you think you can beat me, you are always more than welcome to warp into my missions in lowsec. Just because I and others are in an npc corp never ever meant that we stayed in highsec.
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Kalia Masaer
Rosa Castellum
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Posted - 2009.09.20 06:23:00 -
[195]
11% seems pretty cheap considering the one major benefit of being in an NPC corp is, no war decs!!. And the cost is only slightly higher than the average tax a player corp charges. Really it will have little effect on the game other than removing the extra award for being in an NPC corp which already provides the juge benefit of not being war dec'd.
It is a way to balance NPC and Player corps somewhat. I've had plenty of people I've tried to recruit say "oh you have a 10% corp tax I don't want to pay 10% tax."
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari The Confederate Navy Forever Unbound
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Posted - 2009.09.20 06:30:00 -
[196]
Edited by: Ancy Denaries on 20/09/2009 06:30:19 GREAT addition, but I agree with Bellum. It needs to be in the regions of 20% in order to really motivate people to move. An 11% reduction is not too bad, really. But it does put a dent in missionrunning, which rocks.
Oh I cannot wait for the cries of terror and howls of redemption :D ----- Why doesn't anyone ever read the forums before posting? EVE is a game of adaptation and planning. Adapt or die. |
I SoStoned
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.20 06:31:00 -
[197]
Christ I hate this 5 minute timer when it takes 20 seconds to post a reply:
But this, simply:
Eleven percent? ELEVEN? That's just a joke and won't make a dint in the droves of mission grinding carebears.
Here's the fix you want:
10% base tax for NPC corps, +1% tax per month in the corp. This will slowly push the grinding 'bears out of the corp but not unduly penalize legitimate players leaving a corp to look for another.
I only want *one* important change: when a war is declared all members of the corp/alliance declared on are flagged as war targets, even if they leave the corp!!!. A harsh end needs to be brought down with the hammer of Nerfdom to stop corp jumping war dodgers who are 90% of the time the targets you're declaring to get a shot at anyway.
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Chip Flux
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.09.20 06:48:00 -
[198]
There is not one chance that i will be cohersed out of CAS. I will not become a pArt of your pointless fight, What are you fighting for chumps?
NOTHING, you fight cos you are told
I will fight for nothing less than the fictional freespace allience
If I am not inspired to ruin the best game I ever played, by joining a corp to fight anything silly enough to explore MY MY MY, bit of EVE, is it any wonder?.
I dont mind sharing ok?
this is not my ishtars bandwidth nerfed, you are attacking my very EVE
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Thallidus
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Posted - 2009.09.20 06:50:00 -
[199]
This does little to actually promote people to join player corps, and a fair bit to open the door for people to have a terrible first corp experience.
Want new players to join corps early? Make the punishments for high-sec griefing (wardecs) much higher. There's no faster way to make a new player give up on corps entirely then having his first one fold under the pressure from a high-skillpoint griefer corp.
I know these forums, they'll just say "those people belonged in WoW anyway! Good riddance!" but that is the path to game failure and obscurity via slowly dwindling player numbers. There's constant turnover in MMOs, if you're not attracting new people eventually the old people leave and the game withers.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.20 07:10:00 -
[200]
Quote: Oh good a devblog. I'll be interested in seeing how you justify punishing NPC corp members.
Oh dont worry about that. Knowing CCP they just do it because they think being in a player corp is more fun than not being in one, so they think they are 'helping' those people in NPC corporations.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.09.20 07:11:00 -
[201]
Everyone saying the tax on npc corps needs to be higher are morons... This change is going to make everyone join 1 man corps- thats it. your going to have thousands of 1 man corps because most established corps (read- nullsec) DO NOT RECRUIT. And your not going to be able to kill them in a war dek either- they will leave their one man corp and join another one man corp- TRY AND STOP THEM
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Ancy Denaries
Caldari The Confederate Navy Forever Unbound
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Posted - 2009.09.20 07:15:00 -
[202]
Edited by: Ancy Denaries on 20/09/2009 07:16:25
Originally by: Chip Flux There is not one chance that i will be cohersed out of CAS. I will not become a pArt of your pointless fight, What are you fighting for chumps?
NOTHING, you fight cos you are told
I will fight for nothing less than the fictional freespace allience
If I am not inspired to ruin the best game I ever played, by joining a corp to fight anything silly enough to explore MY MY MY, bit of EVE, is it any wonder?.
I dont mind sharing ok?
this is not my ishtars bandwidth nerfed, you are attacking my very EVE
That's what you think? That life outside "NPC corp-shoots-red-crosses-all-day" is like that? You are the very reason I approve of this change. Get out of your shell and experience what EVE really is about. ----- Why doesn't anyone ever read the forums before posting? EVE is a game of adaptation and planning. Adapt or die. |
Kallana Wren
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Posted - 2009.09.20 07:42:00 -
[203]
Here's a question. Player corps all charge taxes to maintain infrastructure, and allow for expansion. Why should NPC corps not be the same? Are they magically able to generate the necessary operating capital from thin air?
Stay in the NPC corps if you like, but now there's no longer a direct financial reason to do so. When so much more of the game exists, this is really just a mechanic to make the 10-15% tax rate of most player corps not as big of a psychological hit to newer players. In the long run it's insignificant.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.20 07:50:00 -
[204]
Quote: Here's a question. Player corps all charge taxes to maintain infrastructure, and allow for expansion. Why should NPC corps not be the same? Are they magically able to generate the necessary operating capital from thin air?
So what you are saying is that the tax in NPC corporations should be used to buy blueprints that all members can use? Then the tax would be fine for me.
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Chip Flux
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.09.20 07:56:00 -
[205]
if you want all my billions then you are welcome to them, i will buy some plex to replace my hard earnt isk, np no, ...I am proud of what I have achieved in EVE, I will not be told that I am lame by the very people I want to look up to and respect, the people who make the game I play and love....
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Anima Aquinas
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.09.20 08:09:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 19/09/2009 23:36:53 First, lets see which groups of player types are members of NPC corp:
- People who just want to do their own thing in EVE
- People who like interaction with other players, but dislike PvP
- Money-making mission alts of people in low-sec/0.0
- Hauler/scout/miner/trader alts
- Mission farmers
- Other farmers
- People (usually newbies) who'd like to join a player corp
- The undecided
Second, what possible reactions are there for players to this change:
- Stay in NPC corp
- Create disposable 1-man corp
- Join player corp
Now, let me try to predict which reaction each of the above groups will have:
- Option a or b. They don't care about interaction, and might accept a tax
- Option a. They'll feel punished for liking to chat to others but not wanting to PvP
- Option b. They're there to make the most money with least effort. Any interaction with other people is done in his main's corp.
- Option a. This change does not affect them.
- Option b, since this enables them to make the most money
- Option a. This change does not affect them.
- Option c, but they'd have done so anyway.
- They'll eventually join group 1, 2 or 7...
This quite frankly is pretty spot on, players like myself (group2) will experience either apathy to this change or a negative outlook.
I don't give a **** about PVP, MY EVE is not about PVP, its about PVE, production, research and eventually invention.
I get none of the benefits of being in a PC (shared blueprints, readily available research slots in stations) and i get a laughable concord protection (i can still get ganked, stolen from, shot at, etc).
The 11% tax is not a thing i would care about if it went somewhere useful (like the FW corps that has already been suggested). What i do care about is the fact that CCP feel the need to "encourage" me into a PC with a negative effect on my current game play (it may only be a little change but it is still negative).
Also, why are you only taxing NPC Corps to "fund concord" (as your roleplay excuse was) when Concord protect Everyone in hisec, seeing as Concord seem pretty corruptable as they accept bribes to allow wardec's can i request that my taxes afford me proper protection and result in concord podkilling any ganker that wants to shoot at me? (ya i know its not going to happen but if i pay for protection i want a decent level of protection).
I won't be leaving my NPC corp (CAS) because it offers me the freedom to do what i want, when i want, where i want, without having to worry about getting a wardec shoved up my ass.
short recap: MY EVE is not PVP, my EVE is PVE, its a sandbox, i want to build a sandcastle to my own design not someone else's.
I'll await the devblog on this, but i won't hold my breath waiting. |
Kagan Kashgar
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Posted - 2009.09.20 08:40:00 -
[207]
I'm thinking there should be an empire wide tax (say 4-9%, maybe raise the sales tax or add purchase tax), then some corp tax (1-10%), npc or pc corp. Everyone who makes ISK in highsec space should pay for the security CONCORD guarantees. CONCORD should not be the one collecting the taxes but the empires, the empires might have different taxes even. Or maybe the jumpgates should have a toll fee or stations docking fee, the more ppl visit the higher the fee. All in all ~20%tax would be fine. Transaction or transfer tax? Anything over 20% tax will just make everyone more careful with their ships. Problem is, old don't like new 'cos new are carebears, can't fit correctly or even if they could they don't have the skill blaablaablaa. Who builds the ships, who mines the minerals and most of all what is the foundation of the economy? Maybe a complete pvp-free highsec, that'd be worth the higher than 11% ;P All I can see from the ones saying it should be much higher is the bloodthirsty stare of having the chance to grief some st*pid id*ot carebear that don't pew pew. And yes, I do mostly missions in highsec but enjoy the occasional probing of deep, dark and sometimes dangerous place. Least of all I find forced pvp fun when ganked by some or other gatecamp.
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GenrlBaconbits alt
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.09.20 08:56:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Verone
I disagree with the concept of applying this from the outset.
However, TQ should watch a player's time in NPC corps, and when the cumulative time reaches 90 days, the corp tax should start to be applied at 50% tbh.
So for instance if a rookie creates a character in the Federal Navy Academy, he has 90 days to make his first ISK and look for a player corporation. After that he starts to get taxed by [FNA] at 50%.
If he then joins a player corp, their tax applies as set by the CEO. If he leaves, one of the following two situations occurs.
If his time in NPC corporations is >90 days, the clock keeps ticking, so if he initially spent 40 days in an NPC corp before being employed then he has 50 days before the NPC corporation he's placed in upon leaving (I believe FNA starter end up in The Scope) starts to tax him at the rate of 50%.
If his time in NPC corporations is <90 days, he begins to get taxed at 50% immediately on leaving the player corporation.
Would sort out the issue of people being "immune" in high sec by hiding in NPC corps.
fixed --- I'm totally not an alt..of an alt...of a purchased char... |
Mikayla Grey
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.20 09:01:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Chris Reiter
Originally by: Mikayla Grey
The newbies are better off learning stuff by themselves or joining a real corp to learn stuff rather than listen to the bitter noobs that stay in npc corps.
Great way to impress new players by dismissing them. Most corps won't take a useless pilot asking why WASD isn't moving their ship or if they leveled up when they appeared back in the med bay after a trip to low sec. I have seen new players quit while on trial because of an attitude like yours directed towards them, which is another target for you and a monthly subscription to CCP in their pocket.
Read it again. I dont dismiss new players but the bitter 80 mill sp noobs that you find in npc corps. Newbies are much better off learning on their own than listening to the players in npc corps.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.20 09:08:00 -
[210]
Quote:
It's not in the sisi patch notes because I don't know how to edit them, I think I have to mail them to someone who has access to it and then it is edited in. This hsn't been properly set up yet but for the next sisi update I think there will be more and more accurate notes ( at least from me)
It's a change meant to encourage people to join a player corporation and ofcourse concord needs to pay wages to their pilots on a regular basis
Oh we came to 11% after researching what the average tax was in player corporations, the NPC tax is a little bit above that average.
And how do you deal with this?
1) Have 1 man corp alt accepting missions. 2) NPC corp missioneer does the job 3) 1 man corp alt takes the rewards with 0% tax.
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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