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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Draulin
Gallente Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.09.12 23:56:00 -
[271]
I'm glad someone mentioned that Dread Guristas ships use both Gallente and Caldari. To those complaining about the "minmatar" ships, take a look at the Blood ships, those are "minmatar" and look very much improved too. |
Pisi Mopsu
Professional Interstellar Support Initiative
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Posted - 2009.09.12 23:56:00 -
[272]
Well said Mercury.... unless those extra drones are gonna come out bearing little doomsdays there is no logic to giving us those and taking away 2 launchers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Maldad Asesino
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Posted - 2009.09.13 00:03:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Draulin I'm glad someone mentioned that Dread Guristas ships use both Gallente and Caldari. To those complaining about the "minmatar" ships, take a look at the Blood ships, those are "minmatar" and look very much improved too.
Yeah I will so cross train yet another race, complete with a new weapon system just to fly a usefull minmatar cross breed pirate ship?
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Harotak
THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2009.09.13 00:06:00 -
[274]
Minmater have the rifter and rupture, which is all you ever need.
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Letifer Deus
Bannable Offense. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.09.13 00:07:00 -
[275]
Quote: ò Bonuses: pirate: 25% to large hybrid turret damage, Gallente battleship: +7.5% to large hybrid turrets per level, Minmatar battleship: +10% to velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level
just to be clear, the bolded part is still tracking, right? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Harotak
THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2009.09.13 00:11:00 -
[276]
Most likely. Would love a 5% damage bonus instead though.
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Draulin
Gallente Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.09.13 00:11:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Maldad Asesino
Originally by: Draulin I'm glad someone mentioned that Dread Guristas ships use both Gallente and Caldari. To those complaining about the "minmatar" ships, take a look at the Blood ships, those are "minmatar" and look very much improved too.
Yeah I will so cross train yet another race, complete with a new weapon system just to fly a usefull minmatar cross breed pirate ship?
Then don't use faction ships! You do get the concept that cross training two races is the whole purpose of faction ships right? |
Maldad Asesino
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Posted - 2009.09.13 00:16:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Draulin
Then don't use faction ships! You do get the concept that cross training two races is the whole purpose of faction ships right?
The point is, which I'm pretty sure you got is that the bloodraider ships are kinda awsome but the angel ships are left in the dust.
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Draulin
Gallente Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.09.13 00:21:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Maldad Asesino The point is, which I'm pretty sure you got is that the bloodraider ships are kinda awsome but the angel ships are left in the dust.
Angel ships? I thought those were "gallente" lol. It looks to me like Caldari and Amarr are the ones that get screwed the most. Minmatar gets Blood, Serpentis, Angels. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.13 00:27:00 -
[280]
After looking at all 10 pages of this thread, I just can't find the energy to pick apart the designs tbh. Whatever ship ends up being the most overpowered, I'll fly, and whatever ships suck, I'll ignore, as usual. Sure, I'd prefer to be able to fly a Vindicator or something, but if I'm stuck with a Rattlesnake, so be it.
The smaller ships have a much smaller impact on PVP when compared to the BS. The BS are used for mission running as well as PVP, where the cruisers etc. are used pretty much exclusively for PVP. One or two faction cruisers are still easily outclassed by a larger ship or two. Even if the Gila ends up being as good as it is, a few heavy neuts from a BS and it's toast.
So really, the most interesting and important ships end up being the BS class ships. And to that end, if we exclude PVE performance 100% as it should be, and focus completely on PVP performance then we have a much smaller set of variables to focus on.
So we end up with four distinct animals- shield tanking laser gun boat with massive tank and DPS, a shield tanking drone/missile boat, an armor tanking high speed gunboat with the Mach, a neut/laser ship and finally an armor tanked blaster boat. All these ships are really unique except for one- the blaster BS.
Whatever the outcome of the balancing, I'm sure I'll find a use for all the faction ships, as they provide a unique approach to solving the PVP problem. That being said, the only way to make the Vindicator worthwhile is to make it better at being a blaster ship than every other Gallente BS in the game. All that's needed is more peak gun DPS than any other ship. Other than that, it's not going to be that remarkable.
Random tangent-
I've been flying a CNR for a bit, just to try it out, on my other account, and I have to say, I'm just not that impressed with it when compared to my Dominix with it's sentry drones. Between the time of flight of the missiles and it's reload time and slow ROF it just doesn't burn through targets quite as fast as I thought it would. EFT isn't everything. A lot of smaller factors contribute to a ships effectiveness than just max tank/gank stats.
These days I could care less what ends up being the best. I can fly everything with equal effectiveness. I just don't like ships sitting around gathering dust because they suck.
-- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.09.13 00:40:00 -
[281]
Edited by: Soporo on 13/09/2009 00:41:29
Quote: I've been flying a CNR for a bit, just to try it out, on my other account, and I have to say, I'm just not that impressed with it when compared to my Dominix with it's sentry drones. Between the time of flight of the missiles and it's reload time and slow ROF it just doesn't burn through targets quite as fast as I thought it would. EFT isn't everything. A lot of smaller factors contribute to a ships effectiveness than just max tank/gank stats.
These days I could care less what ends up being the best. I can fly everything with equal effectiveness. I just don't like ships sitting around gathering dust because they suck.
but if I'm stuck with a Rattlesnake, so be it
Lol, you won't be. You will also probably review and subsequently ignore the new Scorp, just like everyone else will unless they change it.
According to your criteria: Bhaalgorn then Nightmare, the others, then a distant last is Rattler.
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BABARR
PARABELUM-Project
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Posted - 2009.09.13 01:07:00 -
[282]
Edited by: BABARR on 13/09/2009 01:14:03 MWHAHAHAHAH who said the rattlesnake is now a WTF killing machine? And, and... 125 bandwich on the gila???? ...
"Si vis pacem, parabellum" |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.09.13 01:16:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Soporo Edited by: Soporo on 13/09/2009 00:41:29
Quote: I've been flying a CNR for a bit, just to try it out, on my other account, and I have to say, I'm just not that impressed with it when compared to my Dominix with it's sentry drones. Between the time of flight of the missiles and it's reload time and slow ROF it just doesn't burn through targets quite as fast as I thought it would. EFT isn't everything. A lot of smaller factors contribute to a ships effectiveness than just max tank/gank stats.
These days I could care less what ends up being the best. I can fly everything with equal effectiveness. I just don't like ships sitting around gathering dust because they suck.
but if I'm stuck with a Rattlesnake, so be it
Lol, you won't be. You will also probably review and subsequently ignore the new Scorp, just like everyone else will unless they change it.
According to your criteria: Bhaalgorn then Nightmare, the others, then a distant last is Rattler.
The way it's shaping up now, the Rattlesnake might end up being a pretty good PVE ship with sentry IIs and cruise missiles, but I wouldn't be using it for PVP tbh.
You're totally right about my pecking order. Bhaalgorn, Nightmare, Mach, Rattler. I wouldn't even bother with the Vindi when a Hype or Kronos or the newly improved Navy Mega can do it's job better for less ISK. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Artimus Mousimus
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.13 01:34:00 -
[284]
GAY GAY AND MORE GAY
was going to buy a rattle snake before DT today and all i can say is thank god i didnt, removeing 2 launchers and giving it a stuip drone bay isnt really improveing it much,or is there something else im missing. either way you have saved me looseing 800 mil. ill just go buy a CNR instead but then again your probly going to take the launchers of that next and put a big cargo bay on it cus every one uses them for PVE and needs a bigger bay for there loot.
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Celia NIN
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Posted - 2009.09.13 01:34:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Manu Hermanus
Originally by: Celia NIN I finally get myself a Rattlesnake and start working to fit it properly. And as usual, before I can even come close to realizing my dream of having a good mission ship, CCP changes everything on me. All the time spent earning ISK for fittings? Wasted. All the time spent training skills to match the ship? Wasted. Months of effort down the tubes, because now the ship will require an entirely different set of skills to use, and will still be less effective than a standard battleship. It's getting too depressing to even set goals in this game anymore. By the time you start to see light at the end of the tunnel, CCP shuts the door.
sell and buy cnr?
you can use almost the same fittings for both, plus the cnr was already better.
A corpmate of mine lost a faction fitted cnr right in front of me during a mission. His resists, and skills were better than mine, but my plain-jane raven held out for twice as long as his expensive ship. Therefore, CNR = FAIL.
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TheLibrarian
Minmatar Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.09.13 01:45:00 -
[286]
Why is everyone yelling at CCP. They are working hard on these ships and I for one thank them for this hard work and new innovation. People are wanting to nerf them into the ground before they are even released. Which will put them back where they were, unflyable and a waste of isk.
I hope they stay very similar to what they have proposed as the community is obviously showing a huge interest in them.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.13 01:46:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I've been flying a CNR for a bit, just to try it out, on my other account, and I have to say, I'm just not that impressed with it when compared to my Dominix with it's sentry drones. Between the time of flight of the missiles and it's reload time and slow ROF it just doesn't burn through targets quite as fast as I thought it would. EFT isn't everything. A lot of smaller factors contribute to a ships effectiveness than just max tank/gank stats.
These days I could care less what ends up being the best. I can fly everything with equal effectiveness. I just don't like ships sitting around gathering dust because they suck.
Start a thread with your fit in Ships & Modules, or post in the "WHY THE RATTLER IS NEXT PVE MISSION KING". I find the Cruise Raven class of ships to be fantastic. Maybe not a Nightmare, but still pretty honking good!
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.09.13 01:49:00 -
[288]
I'm tired of the Blaster whine. I fly a blaster Mega and I still pown face with it. My sig don't fracking work. |
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.09.13 01:50:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
The way it's shaping up now, the Rattlesnake might end up being a pretty good PVE ship with sentry IIs and cruise missiles, but I wouldn't be using it for PVP tbh.
You're totally right about my pecking order. Bhaalgorn, Nightmare, Mach, Rattler. I wouldn't even bother with the Vindi when a Hype or Kronos or the newly improved Navy Mega can do it's job better for less ISK.
Rattler also has to compete with the navy domi. Also on page 9 i believe. Someone figures out the dps for torps and cruise... but says no using dmg rigs? No reason why u cant use dmg rigs. So rattler will be a nice pve ship.
I also agree. Vindicator doesnt exactly compete well with kronos. It lacks 3 highslots. It lacks rep bonus and tracking bonus. It does have better base ehp. So again. Not that OP really.
bhaalgorn might be pretty hard to fit I think. Lost 1000 base grid. the extra cpu should be plenty. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Mister Zero
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.13 01:57:00 -
[290]
Gimme a freakin' break. Nice SHIELD on the Rattlesnake, PLUS is gets +5 to all resists? It already has 20% more shield than any other FBS.
Just add a monstrous drone bay, to boot.
AS ALWAYS, Minmatar ships get ZERO benefit here, just more nerfs.
Machariel has lame cap/s, the WORST cap, the WORST sensor strength and the WORST drone support.
Give the Mach 10% damage and an extra mid. It *might* become a contender with the others!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Threat Level: Interesting |
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NightmareX
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.13 02:03:00 -
[291]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/09/2009 02:06:15
Originally by: Mister Zero
AS ALWAYS, Minmatar ships get ZERO benefit here, just more nerfs.
Machariel has lame cap/s, the WORST cap, the WORST sensor strength and the WORST drone support.
Give the Mach 10% damage and an extra mid. It *might* become a contender with the others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stop whining ffs. Be happy that CCP change the ships to something better. Yes CCP are boosting the Machariel here and not nerfing it. You must be stupid if you think they are nerfing the Machariel.
As the Machariel will be with the new changes, it will be a BS sized Vagabond with nice range with Barrage L. And it will be pretty fast to.
+ it will do alot more DPS.
The Machariel is and will forever be an armor tanked ship. Stop asking to get more mids. It have 7 low slots. Use them to something.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.13 02:11:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Jason Edwards Rattler also has to compete with the navy domi. Also on page 9 i believe. Someone figures out the dps for torps and cruise... but says no using dmg rigs? No reason why u cant use dmg rigs. So rattler will be a nice pve ship.
I also agree. Vindicator doesnt exactly compete well with kronos. It lacks 3 highslots. It lacks rep bonus and tracking bonus. It does have better base ehp. So again. Not that OP really.
bhaalgorn might be pretty hard to fit I think. Lost 1000 base grid. the extra cpu should be plenty.
The reason I was saying that you "can't fit damage rigs": - When fitting siege, you require 3 missile rigs - When fitting cruise, it's best to fit at least 2 rigors (3 is really really preferred) - When fitting sentries, it's best to fit at least 1 sentry damage augmentor (and fit 2 if you can)
Siege Rattler 4 Siege II, Drone Control Booster, Cap Booster, 3 Hardener, 2 PWNAGE (Note you don't have room for omnis) 4 CN BCU, DC, PDU 3 Missile Rigs
DPS, CN Torps: 536 (Missile) + 450 (Garde II) = 986 DPS DPS, Javs: 420 (Missile) + 450 (Garde II) = 870 DPS
It's flat out worse than a Dominix because: - It doesn't have Omnis (And you can't swap out the TPs because it hits your torp DPS too hard) - Domi does better against frigs at range (this matters because your sentries rather don't) - Domi has better raw damage than Jav variant, and faction variant doesn't have enough range
Ok, so lets fit Cruise.
4 CN Cruise, Drone Range Booster, Cap Booster, 3 Hardener, 2 Omni 4 CN BCU, PDU, DC Flare, Rigor, Damage Augmentor
DPS, Faction: 300 + 495 (Garde IIs) = 795 DPS It's flat out worse than a Dominix because: - It has much lower DPS
The only redeeming factor I can think of is that the Rattler will be able to mount a permatank, FOFs, and Ogres. Perhaps it can bring an all new high to AFK mission running.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Astro Glyde
Wormhole Rescue Service
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Posted - 2009.09.13 02:23:00 -
[293]
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 13/09/2009 02:13:35
Originally by: Mister Zero
AS ALWAYS, Minmatar ships get ZERO benefit here, just more nerfs.
Machariel has lame cap/s, the WORST cap, the WORST sensor strength and the WORST drone support.
Stop whining ffs. Be happy that CCP change the ships to something better. Yes CCP are boosting the Machariel here and not nerfing it. You must be stupid if you think they are nerfing the Machariel.
Yes dumbass, because the new Mach stats listed is OBVIOUSLY not a nerf. lol yeah right.
Wormhole Rescue Service Serving Empire Pilots since 109. W911, you're lost is our gain. |
NightmareX
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.09.13 02:37:00 -
[294]
Edited by: NightmareX on 13/09/2009 02:41:10
Originally by: Astro Glyde
Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 13/09/2009 02:13:35
Originally by: Mister Zero
AS ALWAYS, Minmatar ships get ZERO benefit here, just more nerfs.
Machariel has lame cap/s, the WORST cap, the WORST sensor strength and the WORST drone support.
Stop whining ffs. Be happy that CCP change the ships to something better. Yes CCP are boosting the Machariel here and not nerfing it. You must be stupid if you think they are nerfing the Machariel.
Yes dumbass, because the new Mach stats listed is OBVIOUSLY not a nerf. lol yeah right.
Machariel:
ò Slot layout: 8 high, 5 med, 7 low slots, 7 turrets, no launchers ò Fittings: 600 CPU, 17950 powergrid ò Bonuses: pirate: 25% bonus to large projectile rate of fire, Minmatar battleship: +5% to large projectile turret damage per level, Gallente battleship: +10% falloff to large projectile turrets per level ò Hitpoints: 9317 shields, 9298 armor, 8260 hull ò Capacitor: 5800 capacitor, 1154.875s recharge (about 5.02 cap/s) ò Dronebay: 100m3 bandwidth, 125m3 dronebay ò Speed: 161m/s max velocity, 0.084 agility, 94,680,000kg ò Sensor: 62km targeting range, 7 locked targets, 150mm scan resolution, 26 ladar sensor strength, 340m signature radius
This means:
ò 1 extra turret slot. ò 50 more CPU. ò 2450 more Powergrid. ò Changed the tracking bonus to a falloff bonus, and it's still fine. ò 603 More armor for lower shield and structure. ò 487,5 more capacitor. ò 50 m3 bigger dronebay and able to use one extra heavy drone in space that means more DPS. ò 0,026 lower agility. ò 25% lower mass. ò 50 higher scan res. ò 6 points higher ladar sensor strength.
Yeah, clearly a Machariel nerf.
Check out my new flash web page: Dark Paradise |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.09.13 02:58:00 -
[295]
post-dominion alliance tourneys will be sooo boring... 8[ - putting the gist back into logistics |
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.09.13 03:05:00 -
[296]
Quote: The reason I was saying that you "can't fit damage rigs": - When fitting siege, you require 3 missile rigs
I wouldnt agree with that. If using javelins you almost certainly dont need any missile rigs for range. With 1 sentry rig 2missile rigs. T1 gives 40km at max skills. Which is plenty I think for angels-serps-merc-drones If it isnt plenty. The sentries do the job just fine.
Quote: - When fitting cruise, it's best to fit at least 2 rigors (3 is really really preferred)
I really dont think u need rigors in this case. The drone bonus provides you much more dps capable mediums/lights. As opposed to the current raven brands. So on the smaller stuff where rigor counts... its not necessarily that effective. So sentry rig + 2 whatever.
Quote: - When fitting sentries, it's best to fit at least 1 sentry damage augmentor (and fit 2 if you can)
In the fits I messing with. I fit 1 omni. 1 sentry rig. Then fill the rest with an appropriate tank and such. The fit is fairly respectable and on par with the current dominix.
I might build myself a siege rattler. IT looks good. I just happen to have bought myself a rattler at 755mil :) My torp skills are terrible though :( I'll have to test it on sisi.
Quote: Siege Rattler 4 Siege II, Drone Control Booster, Cap Booster, 3 Hardener, 2 PWNAGE (Note you don't have room for omnis) 4 CN BCU, DC, PDU 3 Missile Rigs
ewww setup if I ever saw one.
Quote: It's flat out worse than a Dominix because: - It doesn't have Omnis (And you can't swap out the TPs because it hits your torp DPS too hard)
because the setup sucks?
Quote: - Domi does better against frigs at range (this matters because your sentries rather don't)
sentries dont? Wow news to me and the about billion frigs my sentries have alphad at range.
Quote: The only redeeming factor I can think of is that the Rattler will be able to mount a permatank, FOFs, and Ogres. Perhaps it can bring an all new high to AFK mission running.
I think that's the biggest factor of the entire ship. Value of isk is getting fairly high. We need mission runners to make more isk! Im willing to become rich. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.09.13 03:14:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider post-dominion alliance tourneys will be sooo boring... 8[
how lol? I think anyone rolling out teams of these might have a pretty big weakness. I honestly dont find any of the setups all that OP.
Except maybe the gila. That thing is an ishtar yet better it seems. Definitely need to test that one out.
The Angel/minnie ships are pretty sad. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.09.13 03:21:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Random tangent-
I've been flying a CNR for a bit, just to try it out, on my other account, and I have to say, I'm just not that impressed with it when compared to my Dominix with it's sentry drones. Between the time of flight of the missiles and it's reload time and slow ROF it just doesn't burn through targets quite as fast as I thought it would. EFT isn't everything. A lot of smaller factors contribute to a ships effectiveness than just max tank/gank stats.
These days I could care less what ends up being the best. I can fly everything with equal effectiveness. I just don't like ships sitting around gathering dust because they suck.
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Then you're doing it wrong. The new Rattlesnake is a Dominix with 4x missile launchers. Which is way better than a Dominix with 6x gun slots and a hybrid bonus.
so basically you say missiles suck, but the snake will be awesome because it has missiles
you got me confused.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.13 03:24:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Jason Edwards I wouldnt agree with that. If using javelins you almost certainly dont need any missile rigs for range. With 1 sentry rig 2missile rigs. T1 gives 40km at max skills. Which is plenty I think for angels-serps-merc-drones If it isnt plenty. The sentries do the job just fine.
There are entirely too many ships and nearly entire factions that orbit out further than 40km. Basically, you're settling for "it does just fine" instead of "it does really excellent".
Quote: I really dont think u need rigors in this case. The drone bonus provides you much more dps capable mediums/lights. As opposed to the current raven brands. So on the smaller stuff where rigor counts... its not necessarily that effective. So sentry rig + 2 whatever.
Ok, so this is the deal: you've got a certain amount of missile DPS - and it's a really low amount of missile DPS. If you don't focus your drones on the battleships when you're shooting them it will greatly increase your mission times. Thus, you focus your drones on the BS's, and now you need to.... shoot the BCs! And then... the Cruisers! And then.. you get the drift eh?
In case you don't: you know why the Drake takes so much longer to run missions? Because its DPS is low and it has trouble breaking the battleships. You're going to have the same problem if you let your sentries wander. And if you don't... then you're gonna be stuck shooting BCs and Cruisers.
Quote: In the fits I messing with. I fit 1 omni. 1 sentry rig. Then fill the rest with an appropriate tank and such. The fit is fairly respectable and on par with the current dominix.
No, it's really not. The current Domi can drop out 920 DPS with 3 omnis (though you could consider replacing one with a target painter to help out with gun DPS). I just went over it: it doesn't matter how you fit the Rattler: it won't outmission a Domi, and it damn sure won't out mission a CNR.
Quote: ewww setup if I ever saw one.
Comments: - We already discussed why the rigs are necessary. Fitting otherwise is failfitting. As you say: your torp skills suck. Take it from someone with max torp skills, mmk? You NEED the range rigs. - The cap booster is necessary because you can't afford any slots for cap. - The target painters help drone tracking and missiles. It doesn't help with their optimal, but them's the breaks.
Quote: sentries dont? Wow news to me and the about billion frigs my sentries have alphad at range.
IMO rails do it better - and as I already covered about you splitting your DPS up. :)
Quote: I think that's the biggest factor of the entire ship. Value of isk is getting fairly high. We need mission runners to make more isk! Im willing to become rich.
So basically you're just telling me you want an AFK shield tanked Domi. Finnne.... but I rather expect billion ISK mission ship hulls to be good at what they do. The Rattler isn't.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Cyno Hoar
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Posted - 2009.09.13 03:43:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Jason Edwards I wouldnt agree with that. If using javelins you almost certainly dont need any missile rigs for range. With 1 sentry rig 2missile rigs. T1 gives 40km at max skills. Which is plenty I think for angels-serps-merc-drones If it isnt plenty. The sentries do the job just fine.
There are entirely too many ships and nearly entire factions that orbit out further than 40km. Basically, you're settling for "it does just fine" instead of "it does really excellent".
Quote: I really dont think u need rigors in this case. The drone bonus provides you much more dps capable mediums/lights. As opposed to the current raven brands. So on the smaller stuff where rigor counts... its not necessarily that effective. So sentry rig + 2 whatever.
Ok, so this is the deal: you've got a certain amount of missile DPS - and it's a really low amount of missile DPS. If you don't focus your drones on the battleships when you're shooting them it will greatly increase your mission times. Thus, you focus your drones on the BS's, and now you need to.... shoot the BCs! And then... the Cruisers! And then.. you get the drift eh?
In case you don't: you know why the Drake takes so much longer to run missions? Because its DPS is low and it has trouble breaking the battleships. You're going to have the same problem if you let your sentries wander. And if you don't... then you're gonna be stuck shooting BCs and Cruisers.
Quote: In the fits I messing with. I fit 1 omni. 1 sentry rig. Then fill the rest with an appropriate tank and such. The fit is fairly respectable and on par with the current dominix.
No, it's really not. The current Domi can drop out 920 DPS with 3 omnis (though you could consider replacing one with a target painter to help out with gun DPS). I just went over it: it doesn't matter how you fit the Rattler: it won't outmission a Domi, and it damn sure won't out mission a CNR.
Quote: ewww setup if I ever saw one.
Comments: - We already discussed why the rigs are necessary. Fitting otherwise is failfitting. As you say: your torp skills suck. Take it from someone with max torp skills, mmk? You NEED the range rigs. - The cap booster is necessary because you can't afford any slots for cap. - The target painters help drone tracking and missiles. It doesn't help with their optimal, but them's the breaks.
Quote: sentries dont? Wow news to me and the about billion frigs my sentries have alphad at range.
IMO rails do it better - and as I already covered about you splitting your DPS up. :)
Quote: I think that's the biggest factor of the entire ship. Value of isk is getting fairly high. We need mission runners to make more isk! Im willing to become rich.
So basically you're just telling me you want an AFK shield tanked Domi. Finnne.... but I rather expect billion ISK mission ship hulls to be good at what they do. The Rattler isn't.
-Liang
You're terrible at this game.
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