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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 15:51:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Only parties that in some form or manner participated or facilitated the Fraud are being charged.
Looks mostly like a list of ex directors / well known associates of E-bank to me, less of a "we know you facilitated the fraud"
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 16:07:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: iP0D Also, aside of the spelling error, I am really curious about the "money laundering" bit, do tell more.
"Money laundering is the practice of disguising illegally obtained funds so that they seem legal. It is a crime in many jurisdictions with varying definitions. It is a key operation of the underground economy."
Quoted from here.
However, is it a crime in the jurisdiction of concord?
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 16:15:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Block Ukx
The charges are put forward by the citizens of New Eden. Any New Eden citizen should qualify as a juror.
This is fine, however, the criminal charges have to be relevent in the jurisdiction in which you are bringing the case. And I am not entirely sure where concord stands on this. You cannot bring criminal charges for a law that has not been broken.
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 16:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: iP0D Concord has no stance on this. They are imaginary npc entities with only enough brain to rightfully criminally flag people with negative sec status when they are silly enough to go through Concord sovereign space.
Well in that case, as far as the laws of new eden, there are only 2.
1) Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose - penalty: Loss of said vessel 2) Do not invest that which you cannot afford to lose - Penalty: Loss of aforementioned investment and requirement to shout on the forums.
With a revision to add:
1b) By undocking you consent to someone shooting at you.
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 16:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Rhivre
Originally by: iP0D
2) Do not invest that which you cannot afford to lose ...
Afford to lose does not mean its ok to commint a crime.
Unfortunately it is only a crime if a law is broken Sir, however, if you can point me to the federation charter where this is specifically named as a crime, any faction will suffice, then I will happily retire :)
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 16:42:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ji Sama
first on page 4
Quoting Ji Sama for inability to count
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 17:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Perhaps, But I believe crimes must have consequences.
Before you can proceed good Sir, you must first provide evidence of a crime being commited, specifically stating which articles have been breached. Failure to do so may leave you open for a counter-suit for libel, and charges of wasting the courts and law enforcements time. As previously stated, interstellar or faction charters will suffice, however, at this point I feel this cannot be pursued, as you have failed to state which laws you believe the defendents have breached.
There are also several precedents where the outcome has been "working as intended, move along Sir, nothing to see".
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 18:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: HawkBlade
No need to get that drastic. These forums would be deserted if they followed that rule.
Sshh....I dont get much chance to get out my wizard hat and robe in Eve, let the nice man continue.
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 19:40:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Rhivre on 28/08/2009 19:41:11
Originally by: Block Ukx
I'm quite serious. As described in the OP:
CHARGES
- Embezzlement and Theft
- Wire Fraud
- Bank Fraud
- Conspiracy to Defraud
- Money Laundering
As mentioned in my previous posts, there is no evidence that any of these "offences" are actually in breach of any current regulations. Until such time as any such legislation is detailed, any claims made are tantamount to slander and libel against the parties you cite as defendents.
Please note that my fees for checking interstellar legislation shall be added to any costs in any counter suits that are filed.
As stated before, if any such documentation is provided, then I will be happy to admit my errors.
PS: Buy my reasonably priced items!
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 20:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ji Sama there are no rules or laws in caldari space that has been broken.
Can we get a verification on Gallente, Amarrian and Minmatar laws also?
I am inclined to think that the Serpentis, Angel Cartel, Blood Raider, Guristas and Sanshas are fairly neutral on their stance regarding this matter, however, they may even be in favour of any alleged wrongdoing.
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 20:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Block Ukx
Originally by: Ji Sama there are no rules or laws in caldari space that has been broken.
That would be for a Trial Jury to decide.
No, you cannot have a trial without having a law being broken.
You cannot go to the expense of assembling a jury, and the court, on the basis of "Well, I think this might be illegal"
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 20:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Block Ukx
"As a division within the CONCORD the SCC is jointly run by the empires and thus ensures a safe and universally regulated trade environment."
Which regulation was broken?
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 20:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ji Sama This thread is now about kittens (& lavista vista's epeen)
As La Vistas legal counsel, I take objection to your comparison of his e-peen to a kitten.
I shall see you in court!
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.28 23:52:00 -
[14]
Having considered the (lack of) evidence put forward by the plaintiff, I believe this case would not make it to a court anywhere in New Eden.
Firstly, because of the non existence of one of the defendents (CCP came back as not known on all recognised search systems) Secondly, because the plaintiff has not provided any evidence of law-breaking on the part of any of the named parties.
Exhaustive search of documentation has not provided any evidence suggesting that any of the activities alleged to have occurred are in breach of any treaties, legislation, or otherwise recognised laws.
I therefore suggest that this potential suit is dropped before any further potential costs are incurred.
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.29 08:24:00 -
[15]
I believe, as Block has said, that he and I are of different opinions as to whether any crime has occured against the populace of New Eden.
If indeed he wishes to push for a pre-trial hearing in order to clarify this matter, then I am happy to state my case.
However, I believe an expert on the laws of each faction would have to be approached, as legality between the states that make up new eden varies (I am assuming we are in agreement that the factions which operate outside of Concord are not to be included).
Also, as Mr Nelson has stated, appointment of a judge and jury would indeed be an issue.
As Block is no doubt aware, the jury has to be open minded, despite any prejudice they may have following interstellar media reports, and as Mr Nelson states, they can have no relationship with any of the accused, either in a business, or more than a passing personal relationship.
For the record, I am happy to represent the defendents. I have no interests, nor interaction with their prior business, and whilst it is publicly recorded that I am a member of LaVista Vistas alliance I do not believe that this constitutes a conflict of interest.
However, as stated at the start of this message, before Block can proceed with his case, it must first be established that there is a case to answer.
It should also be noted that I am also of the opinion that there is insufficient grounds for either a criminal, or civil suit.
I suggest the first course of action should be to refer to our more learned friends within the intergalactic summit,as there are more knowledgeable persons on this subject than either Block or myself.
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.29 08:41:00 -
[16]
I have requested assistance from our learned capsuleers at the intergalactic summit, I propose that Block holds off on any further action until an answer is forthcoming. I propose a timeframe of 2 days to allow for research and response.
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Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.09.01 12:09:00 -
[17]
I look forward to seeing the results of your evidence.
(As an aside, this thread has lead to some heated discussions on voice regarding RP in Eve, whether this thread is intended RP (I dont think it is)..also regarding international maritime law (whether it applies in Eve due to RP restrictions...again, I dont think it does, even if it applies in space IRL)
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