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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7532
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Posted - 2012.05.31 12:48:00 -
[91] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Sociopaths need someone to hate. And their brains are shortcircuited, so they themselves don't understand why they do what they do. Well, that certainly explains why miners spew so much hate over the goons.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:49:00 -
[92] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:CCP bills EVE as a game of risk, but what would be the problem with Hi-sec (not the rest of the game) being turned into a themepark? Because the markets, manufacturing and everything are tied together...... Edit to add: Anything that affected low/null would have to be removed from hi-sec altogether. Why? Because there would be no cost to do anything in hi-sec.
Couldn't the hours of grinding that is associated with a hi-sec play style be the cost? |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
272
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:50:00 -
[93] - Quote
EFF ONEF1 wrote:The whiners want to play the game their way with no interruption or outside factors unless they specifically go looking for it.
The people who "hate" them do not want them to play that way, they want them to play their way.
oversimplification
Sorry most of the whining I see in the forums are from nul sec and low sec pilots whinging that they don't have enough targets in low sec and nerf hi sec to crap to force pilots into their areas.
Tal
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Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
250
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:51:00 -
[94] - Quote
Kougy wrote:I dont know why people hate us so much, I just want to mine in peace darnit.
That's fine, but it may involve a bit of effort to either find a system off the beaten track, away from the trade hubs and routes to avoid attracting much attention or be prepared to set up measures to deter gankers. Just because you wan't to mine in peace doesn't mean that everybody else should be forced to leave you alone. You have to work for it and use a little bit of thought. If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
272
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:53:00 -
[95] - Quote
Roime wrote:Nobody hates hiseccers, but everybody loathes the whiny carebear forum poster who wants to ruin EVE.
As apposed to the whiney null/low/hisec barge gankers that want to do the same
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Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
250
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:55:00 -
[96] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Sociopaths need someone to hate. And their brains are shortcircuited, so they themselves don't understand why they do what they do.
As soon as someone starts aiming the word sociopath at anyone who doesn't play the game their way I just disregard their post as a whine, if you consider anyone who enjoys the pvp aspects of the game as a sociopath, psychopath or whatever bullshit buzzword you hear someone else spewing on the forums, you've failed to separate the game from real life and you're taking it way too seriously. You are the weakest link, goodbye. If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone. |
Calydarix Blackmoor
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.05.31 13:02:00 -
[97] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:Kehro Urgus wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Because most of them want to change EvE Online into a Theme Park MMO. That's why the CSM is dominated by null sec alliances. CCP bills EVE as a game of risk, but what would be the problem with Hi-sec (not the rest of the game) being turned into a themepark?
Because it wouldn't be EVE online anymore ?
The mission where you get your very first ship, the agent even tells you , "This is a LIVE environment, get to your ship quickly" part of the whole fun and mystery is never knowing what is coming next ... the content is driven by player action.
Why would you play in a sandbox, just to want a "theme-park" in a protective bubble inside of said sandbox ?
Why not just save yourself the aggravation and play a theme-park based space game, There are a few that fit that bill out there right now, like STO.
~C |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression Hedonistic Imperative
170
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
From my point of view, all I hear from the "high sec bears" is crys for changes that basically turn eve into a single player pve driven theme park game.
which isn't what eve is
if you loved soccer and I turned up and then started crying for changes that'd make it based under water and involve building a sea lab and then launching an assault on the other team, you'd probably have issues with that. |
Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:10:00 -
[99] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:EFF ONEF1 wrote:The whiners want to play the game their way with no interruption or outside factors unless they specifically go looking for it.
The people who "hate" them do not want them to play that way, they want them to play their way.
oversimplification
Not necessarily "our" way ... but just to realise that "yes, seriously, by clicking 'UNDOCK' you consented to PvP". Along with that, the acceptance that anyone can blap you anywhere at any time for any reason, and it's 100% "fair" within the confines of the game rules (sure, it stings ... and it has the potential to set you back days or weeks ... but someone can do the same thing to them [might even be YOU one day])
Although a carebear, I don't want to see any major changes to gameplay - the way it is, is the way it is.
However this notion about 'undocking means you consent to pvp' is just total bollocks...if , when undocking, a window opens and gives a warning, such as you get when jumping into lo-sec, that you may be attacked at any time, and you need to click 'ok' to undock, then yes I would accept that undock does mean consent. But that's not what happens!
Your analogy means that every time I leave my house, I'm consenting to being murdered on my way to work, and (let me check here...), er, no, I don't consent to that.
I say again, I don't want/expect any changes...I know I can be ganked at any time but I do not consent to it, I just accept it as part of the game. |
Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:11:00 -
[100] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Cpt Roghie wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo sec? As for attacking them, Goonswarm earns alot of money doing so. Wouldnt you do the same thing if you were put in that situation? I can't really say it's for money, as I don't know if profit is being made. But what I can say with certainty is that Goonswarm tends to loath carebears by their own admittance. The Mittani himself has recently gone about a rant on how carebears feel "self-entitled" and how it's his job to rid Eve of this vermin; funny that coming from him.
Goons pay 100M per 10 hulks ganked. 10 hulks contain about 2 billion ISK worth of Technetium, of which the CFC control something like 35 or 40% of the total supply.
Paying 100M in "marketing" spend for 800M in extra sales is on the high end but easily within "real world" parameters of business, especially for products with a very high gross margin. |
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Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:14:00 -
[101] - Quote
Calydarix Blackmoor wrote: Why would you play in a sandbox, just to want a "theme-park" in a protective bubble inside of said sandbox ?
That's pretty much what alliances and "napfests" attempt to create: a protective bubble.
The disagreement is about who sets the terms. |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:14:00 -
[102] - Quote
Calydarix Blackmoor wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:Kehro Urgus wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Because most of them want to change EvE Online into a Theme Park MMO. That's why the CSM is dominated by null sec alliances. CCP bills EVE as a game of risk, but what would be the problem with Hi-sec (not the rest of the game) being turned into a themepark? Because it wouldn't be EVE online anymore ? The mission where you get your very first ship, the agent even tells you , "This is a LIVE environment, get to your ship quickly" part of the whole fun and mystery is never knowing what is coming next ... the content is driven by player action. Why would you play in a sandbox, just to want a "theme-park" in a protective bubble inside of said sandbox ? Why not just save yourself the aggravation and play a theme-park based space game, There are a few that fit that bill out there right now, like STO. ~C
It would still be EVE. The greatness of the game is that it can accomodate a multiplicity of play styles.
In theory a hi-sec bubble of theme park could accommodate those most hated of players from WOW, SWTOR etc. This would bump up CCP's resources. It would also mean more players would be able to find their feet before joining the "real" EVE.
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Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
251
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:14:00 -
[103] - Quote
Hestia Mar wrote: However this notion about 'undocking means you consent to pvp' is just total bollocks...if , when undocking, a window opens and gives a warning, such as you get when jumping into lo-sec, that you may be attacked at any time, and you need to click 'ok' to undock, then yes I would accept that undock does mean consent. But that's not what happens!
When you signed up for the game and downloaded the client, that was your warning message. It is not bollocks, If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:15:00 -
[104] - Quote
Pheusia wrote:Goons pay 100M per 10 hulks ganked. 10 hulks contain about 2 billion ISK worth of Technetium, of which the CFC control something like 35 or 40% of the total supply.
Paying 100M in "marketing" spend for 800M in extra sales is on the high end but easily within "real world" parameters of business, especially for products with a very high gross margin.
What tha....I didn't even....
Training *Technitium reprocessing", gona dust off my hulk
|
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression Hedonistic Imperative
170
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:19:00 -
[105] - Quote
Hestia Mar wrote:Velicitia wrote:EFF ONEF1 wrote:The whiners want to play the game their way with no interruption or outside factors unless they specifically go looking for it.
The people who "hate" them do not want them to play that way, they want them to play their way.
oversimplification
Not necessarily "our" way ... but just to realise that "yes, seriously, by clicking 'UNDOCK' you consented to PvP". Along with that, the acceptance that anyone can blap you anywhere at any time for any reason, and it's 100% "fair" within the confines of the game rules (sure, it stings ... and it has the potential to set you back days or weeks ... but someone can do the same thing to them [might even be YOU one day]) Although a carebear, I don't want to see any major changes to gameplay - the way it is, is the way it is. However this notion about 'undocking means you consent to pvp' is just total bollocks...if , when undocking, a window opens and gives a warning, such as you get when jumping into lo-sec, that you may be attacked at any time, and you need to click 'ok' to undock, then yes I would accept that undock does mean consent. But that's not what happens! Your analogy means that every time I leave my house, I'm consenting to being murdered on my way to work, and (let me check here...), er, no, I don't consent to that. I say again, I don't want/expect any changes...I know I can be ganked at any time but I do not consent to it, I just accept it as part of the game.
except for the fact that every time you leave your house you are doing just that. Accepting (not concenting to that but accepting it could happen) that by leaving the house someone could hit you with their car, mug you or any other thing that happens in the outside world.
Eve's the same. In real life people probably won't mug you if you live in a decent neighbourhood but in the same breath that's probably because they have money and are concerned with the police and the whole prison thing that goes with it.
Eve's the same again, maybe the consiquences should be a little harsher for the gankers but there are always ways round them because people aren't locked to 1 account per player. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7535
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:19:00 -
[106] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:It would still be EVE. The greatness of the game is that it can accomodate a multiplicity of play styles.
In theory a hi-sec bubble of theme park could accommodate those most hated of players from WOW, SWTOR etc. This would bump up CCP's resources. It would also mean more players would be able to find their feet before joining the "real" EVE. No it wouldn't, unless, in that same theory, those players were unable to interact with the market; were unable to engage in science and industry; were unable to mine, do exploration, and collect loot and salvage from missions.
Without those restrictions, the rest of EVE cannot accommodate the levels of protections inside that bubble and it would abused to no end. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:30:00 -
[107] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:It would still be EVE. The greatness of the game is that it can accomodate a multiplicity of play styles.
In theory a hi-sec bubble of theme park could accommodate those most hated of players from WOW, SWTOR etc. This would bump up CCP's resources. It would also mean more players would be able to find their feet before joining the "real" EVE. No it wouldn't, unless, in that same theory, those players were unable to interact with the market; were unable to engage in science and industry; were unable to mine, do exploration, and collect loot and salvage from missions. Without those restrictions, the rest of EVE cannot accommodate the levels of protections inside that bubble and it would abused to no end.
How would it be abused? I accept that some people would do their level best to abuse the system. They already do. But what would the nature of the abuse be? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7536
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:33:00 -
[108] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:How would it be abused? I accept that some people would do their level best to abuse the system. They already do. But what would the nature of the abuse be? Production of ISK, materials, and equipment without any possibility whatsoever to disrupt those activities. Competition on vastly unequal terms. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
210
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:33:00 -
[109] - Quote
Eve does not need a bubble of safety. Eve needs an end to long term events targeted against a particular set of players. No other changes than that. Just stop Hulkageddon and stop this endless, nonsensical crap about miners on the forums. I mean James315 and his stupid manifestos, in particular.
Stop Hulkageddon - I mean stop the Infinite event. Periodic Hulkageddons are fine. But allowing player groups to hit on one subset of players who are doing a legal activity is just going to cause this ranting and bitterness to go on and on. The Goons are brilliant at getting attention for themselves and I'm sure they can find some other way to do it. |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
252
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:Tippia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:It would still be EVE. The greatness of the game is that it can accomodate a multiplicity of play styles.
In theory a hi-sec bubble of theme park could accommodate those most hated of players from WOW, SWTOR etc. This would bump up CCP's resources. It would also mean more players would be able to find their feet before joining the "real" EVE. No it wouldn't, unless, in that same theory, those players were unable to interact with the market; were unable to engage in science and industry; were unable to mine, do exploration, and collect loot and salvage from missions. Without those restrictions, the rest of EVE cannot accommodate the levels of protections inside that bubble and it would abused to no end. How would it be abused? I accept that some people would do their level best to abuse the system. They already do. But what would the nature of the abuse be?
Does it really matter what the nature of the abuse would be? It just doesn't fit with the concept of EVE, plain and simple, it not's required to make EVE 'better' and those of us who actually signed up for the game as it's presented by CCP don't wish to see the sandbox ruined by those coming from other games and trying to turn it into the same rubbish that they played elsewhere.
If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone. |
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c4 t
Push Pharmaceuticals Push Interstellar Network
47
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:39:00 -
[111] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:"The whiny carebear that wants to destroy EVE" is the second biggest myth ever, right after Bigfoot. I've never seen one on these forums. What I do see, however, is a lot douchebaggy "PvPers" who wants to ruin EVE by idiotic ideas such as removal of local and High-sec areas.
The hate, in my eyes, is unwarranted and most often down right hypocritical.
****** detected! |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:45:00 -
[112] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:How would it be abused? I accept that some people would do their level best to abuse the system. They already do. But what would the nature of the abuse be? Production of ISK, materials, and equipment without any possibility whatsoever to disrupt those activities. Competition on vastly unequal terms.
1.Isn't most of the buying/selling/production already done in hi-sec anyway? And since you can't get all resources (or most?) from hi-sec their wouldn't be much of a change in the economy.
2.Competition between who?
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:47:00 -
[113] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
Because this game's economy runs on consumption, and that mainly happens AWAY from high sec where you have to jump through hoops to kill another players ship [quot] If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem?[/quote] Not a problem as long as the player accepts that undocking was his consent to pvp.
Quote:If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? None as long as he doesn't undock.
Quote:If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? See all the above.
Quote: 2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
Somewhat. I'm sure that are people with the authoritarian "you must do as I do because I'm the only one in the universe that really exists" mind set, but most of us aren't like that. We simply dislike people who want to play the game counter to it's nature and who then try to get ccp to adapt the game to them, rather than them adapting to it.
If people want a theme park mmo, they should be playing Star Trek, eve is about pvp competition and what most other games would call "griefing". |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7537
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:51:00 -
[114] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:Isn't most of the buying/selling/production already done in hi-sec anyway? Even if it is, none of it is protected and can be disrupted at any point. It's not about the economy (although that plays in as well, since less stuff will be destroyed), but about the inequality between the rule sets by all the actors.
Quote:Competition between who? Between anyone and everyone who buys, sells, and uses the stuff being produced. Some will do it inside the bubble and be completely safe from all disruptions; some will do it outside of the bubble and won't be. That makes it brain-dead to do anything of the kind outside of the bubble and you've just ruined EVE at its very core.
All production must be open to disruption, or you've just robbed the game of its largest PvP area. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:52:00 -
[115] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote: Stop Hulkageddon - I mean stop the Infinite event.
No no no no, hulkageddon forever! I see only pros to this, why can't you? |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:54:00 -
[116] - Quote
Virgil Travis wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:Tippia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:It would still be EVE. The greatness of the game is that it can accomodate a multiplicity of play styles.
In theory a hi-sec bubble of theme park could accommodate those most hated of players from WOW, SWTOR etc. This would bump up CCP's resources. It would also mean more players would be able to find their feet before joining the "real" EVE. No it wouldn't, unless, in that same theory, those players were unable to interact with the market; were unable to engage in science and industry; were unable to mine, do exploration, and collect loot and salvage from missions. Without those restrictions, the rest of EVE cannot accommodate the levels of protections inside that bubble and it would abused to no end. How would it be abused? I accept that some people would do their level best to abuse the system. They already do. But what would the nature of the abuse be? Does it really matter what the nature of the abuse would be? It just doesn't fit with the concept of EVE, plain and simple, it not's required to make EVE 'better' and those of us who actually signed up for the game as it's presented by CCP don't wish to see the sandbox ruined by those coming from other games and trying to turn it into the same rubbish that they played elsewhere.
My idea, as unfleshed out as it is, is that this "bubble" would seed players into the rest of EVE where they could find more enagaging game play. I admit that it requires more thought, particularly as to how it might impact on the wider economy, but would it have an overall negative impact on other players? The dog-eat-dog aspect of the rest of the Universe wouldn't change. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
639
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:55:00 -
[117] - Quote
Mainly because your representatives on the forums try to nerf our playstyles. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
598
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:06:00 -
[118] - Quote
Nobody "hates" hisec players.
End thread. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
968
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:14:00 -
[119] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:
My idea, as unfleshed out as it is, is that this "bubble" would seed players into the rest of EVE where they could find more enagaging game play. I admit that it requires more thought, particularly as to how it might impact on the wider economy, but would it have an overall negative impact on other players? The dog-eat-dog aspect of the rest of the Universe wouldn't change.
Let's say you're a nullsec alliance leader, and you need 250 million trit. you could mine it in nullsec, where it's dangerous ... OR you simply mine it in (or buy it from) hisec, where it's 100% safe, and jump it directly to where you need it to be.
NOW do you see why it's a problem? |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
303
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:17:00 -
[120] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:
My idea, as unfleshed out as it is, is that this "bubble" would seed players into the rest of EVE where they could find more enagaging game play. I admit that it requires more thought, particularly as to how it might impact on the wider economy, but would it have an overall negative impact on other players? The dog-eat-dog aspect of the rest of the Universe wouldn't change.
Let's say you're a nullsec alliance leader, and you need 250 million trit. you could mine it in nullsec, where it's dangerous ... OR you simply mine it in (or buy it from) hisec, where it's 100% safe, and jump it directly to where you need it to be. NOW do you see why it's a problem?
He probably doesn't. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method |
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