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Jolla Skyia
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Posted - 2009.07.25 01:29:00 -
[1]
Here is the situation. You have item that sells at Jita for around 800k. Yet in my local trade hub, the "smart" traders have managed to get the prices up around 1,4mil and people still buy.
So we are talking almost 80 to 90% profits, if everyone plays ball and sticks with the .01 wars. Everyone gets some sales and we all make nice profits.. However, there is always 2 types of morons that enter the equation.
Number 1 is the guy that totally tries to kill the market by tossing the items at low ball Jita prices. This guy is easily dealt with buying out his inventory and saying thanks for bringing it to me.
Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
So what do you do, with these kind of moronic traders? Buying them out might only encourage them to put more on the market. If you don't buy them out, it's sure someone else will try to under cut them and then the moron will drop his price another 100k until he kills the market price.
So what do you do?
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Mordou
Mordou Manufacturing and Trade
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Posted - 2009.07.25 01:33:00 -
[2]
Use him to drive all the prices down, then buy everything up, then profit.
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Agent Darko
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Posted - 2009.07.25 01:33:00 -
[3]
Meh...
There will always be those kinds of people.
Keep undercutting until his stock gets low enought, buy it all up at really low prices and restock. why _wouldn't_ you want to encourage that?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.25 01:37:00 -
[4]
Undercutting others by a huge percentage or amount until the others just give up and leave or buy you out is a perfectly legitimate tactic for the trader that doesn't have the time to play the 0.01 dance. From his viewpoint, a minimal margin on a large volume is better than a big margin on next to no volume at all. Other times, these people are not actually selling, they ARE BUYING. They want you to follow them down, so THEY can buy YOU out cheaply. And yet again another time, you're just facing somebody who just wants to get rid of his inventory, and considers the buy order price far too low.
Sounds to me like none of the above is stupid at all - if they WOULD be stupid you would have a very fast and very clear answer to this "problem".
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Xapharia
WOLIMAZO INC
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Posted - 2009.07.25 01:51:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Akita T
Undercutting others by a huge percentage or amount until the others just give up and leave or buy you out is a perfectly legitimate tactic for the trader that doesn't have the time to play the 0.01 dance. From his viewpoint, a minimal margin on a large volume is better than a big margin on next to no volume at all. Other times, these people are not actually selling, they ARE BUYING. They want you to follow them down, so THEY can buy YOU out cheaply. And yet again another time, you're just facing somebody who just wants to get rid of his inventory, and considers the buy order price far too low.
Sounds to me like none of the above is stupid at all - if they WOULD be stupid you would have a very fast and very clear answer to this "problem".
Using some of these points myself at times. Might also be when I want an item but don't want to buy it off a sell order so I make a buy order that's more than 0.01 isk above the others. Usually when this is the case I only want a small amount of items that I will use myself and not sell, so letting my order of 4 get filled will get me out of the picture.
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Jotobar
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Posted - 2009.07.25 01:56:00 -
[6]
Basicly you don't get it and there's 5 threads like this on the front page probably.
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FuzzyBunnyKiller
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Posted - 2009.07.25 02:16:00 -
[7]
You do know that 90% of the #1 guys are mission runners and miners who just dump there loot and ore and dont want to babysit orders there not moron traders
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Yarinor
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Posted - 2009.07.25 03:30:00 -
[8]
I supply bombs to a popular "near 0.0" trade hub. Before i started supplying them they were around 2m each, I've been selling them at 1.2m each, you wanna know what happened to the traded volume? It's increase more than 10 fold. and i know I'm only getting 1/3 of the profits pr unit that i would get if they were sold at 2m, but I still sell 10 times more from that hub alone, than the entire region did before i started selling there.
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Sturmwolke
Genyosha Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.25 03:32:00 -
[9]
That sounds almost like the AN (Standard) crystal market
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Spacing Cowboy
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.07.25 11:30:00 -
[10]
I did something simular as soon i figured out how the eve market actually works ;) Realising then you don't HAVE to buy from station, but its very worthy to check the region, or even just the system prices.
Started buying "noob ammo" from a start post from the guys who make them, couple of hops away. Easy to find out, if your a pew-pew nub yourself, and need to arm up.
Started out with one specific type item, 4 days later controlling the entire range, having a hard time keeping up with restocking, as the guys produce about just as fast as i can sell it here.
Right now selling the shooters & ammo for +- 50% the system price, But that is still 45% more then the region price. Total moved items in the last days went up with nearly 25% , if it's cheap.. a nub buys it ;)
yes, i priced out the residential arms dealer out of the hub, as i do have the chance to change & update my prices ever hour or so.
IMHO , excelent way to make a crapload of ISK in your first week
Truth is, even with the current skill's i could stock even cheaper with producing it myself, but just can't be bothered to do so ;)
Killing the market for somebody else? Yes.. But profiting from it? owww yes...
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Titan Pilot
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.07.25 11:39:00 -
[11]
convo, beg, threaten, undock, pod, scoop, sell
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.07.25 11:49:00 -
[12]
This:
Shave his balls with a rusty razor Shave his balls with a rusty razor Shave his balls with a rusty razor Earl-eye in the mornin...
Thats what you do to the dumb traders..
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge Got Game? Peak a boo... |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.07.25 12:01:00 -
[13]
Quote: So what do you do with dumb traders?
I let them buy and carry my future inventory for me.
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar Planet Roqa
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Posted - 2009.07.25 12:02:00 -
[14]
this still leaves the unresolved issue of drunken sailors.
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Diamond Jewel
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Posted - 2009.07.25 15:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jolla Skyia Number 1 is the guy that totally tries to kill the market by tossing the items at low ball Jita prices. This guy is easily dealt with buying out his inventory and saying thanks for bringing it to me.
Have you ever heard of corp theft, pirating, empire wars, or PvP in general? All of these let you acquire items for free. Lets say I have a spy/corp theif in a corp and I empty out 10,000 mods worth 2.7 billion. I want the ISK now so I sell it at rock bottom prices and walk off with 1.5bil in a matter of a day. It's all 100% profit.
Originally by: Jolla Skyia Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
Do you realize that fat cats put up regional buy orders in all the empire regions? They buy items for 100isk and noobs sell them. So once a month they cruise around and pick up 1000s of items that they basically bought for free. On top of that, they get a kick out of knowing people like you get butt hurt over market crashing.
Originally by: Jolla Skyia So what do you do, with these kind of moronic traders?
Whine on the forums and let everyone know that you know little about trade. Also, let others know that you are being griefed by a market crasher. Why don't you put a big target on your chest? Your making the problem worse by posting.
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Ancallan
Petals of Derketo
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Posted - 2009.07.25 15:58:00 -
[16]
Infiltrate his organisation. Beware of Stockholm Syndrome. __________
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.07.25 16:28:00 -
[17]
I do it all the time. Its a response to .01 is warfare. The more people who are doing .01 is warfare, the more likely that item is to get shock therapy. If I am interested in staying in that market segment I will try to kill off some of the competition. When I can neither buy, nor sell something, thats a problem for me when I am trying to trade. Also, the more people who are doing .01 isk wars, the easier that item is to manipulate, because I can force you to give me your stuff for free. Are you a stupid moron for doing this? I guess I don't have an answer for that.
Another reason I do it is because I don't like trading items at 4,563,276.83 or something like that. I like a nice simple round number, so I might round it up or down to the top 2, 3 or 4 digits. When you think about it, I could raise some things a 500 times with 4 digits before it might make any real difference in the price on some items.
I also deleted the decimel point once when selling stuff, and it left me traumatized, so I avoid them usually. I think I am less error prone when I use nicely rounded numbers.
Sometimes I get bored and make patterns in market graphs for fun. I have also tried to buy everything just to see if I can do it with some things. I don't make isk, but I have wrecked markets for months like that. I like to make nice smooth lines and then bounce them up and down, or sometimes chaos. It makes me happy.
In my mind, its also better for me to take a 5% profit with higher volume, than a 50% profit that I can take in theory but never sell anything. In some cases I will reduce the profit to negative and buy up stock too. I do it intentionally. This also has the benefit of causing people to freak out and dump stock, so I can buy it back. I am a firm believer in never buying into a market where I am above mineral cost for trade, I will do it for other reasons though.
I also buy sometimes for pvp ops where I need to get certain things I don't trade in, or have run out of a few things I need to do something. In those cases, its not about profit, its about getting the items I need in a couple of days at a decent price. So I might buy 30 of this or 50 of that in ways where I am certain to get a better price than the sell orders. I am perfectly willing to run the price all the way up to the sell orders. Some people are really dumb and don't understand that not everyone who puts up buy orders is a trader. A good trader always knows the break point on an item. I purposely go above that to avoid .01 isk competition.
You seem like a nice enough guy, I am sorry if this offends you. Well. Actually I am not sorry. But I will benefit if you stop trading, so I have a keen interest in wrecking your world I guess.
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.07.25 16:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Taua Roqa this still leaves the unresolved issue of drunken sailors.
We are NOT going to talk about that.
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Lord Zarcam
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2009.07.25 16:58:00 -
[19]
Have thought that maybe YOU fell into HIS trap and that you are the moron? Maybe this person manufactures his stuff and normally sells in Jita, but YOU have saved HIM a trip by buying out his product? Sounds like you are doing what he wanted all along.
And as far as #2, there are many reason for this, some have been discussed already. It's all PvP, just in a different form! You can partake, get run over or get out.
Originally by: Jolla Skyia Number 1 is the guy that totally tries to kill the market by tossing the items at low ball Jita prices. This guy is easily dealt with buying out his inventory and saying thanks for bringing it to me.
Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
So what do you do?
In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream! |
small chimp
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Posted - 2009.07.25 17:35:00 -
[20]
Edited by: small chimp on 25/07/2009 17:36:42 According to some md fanbois dumb traders are actually wise because they are cutting their own profits and spending millions of billions just to possibly make you cry and grief you!
Also its dumb to think about customer! cartels are most profitable!
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Ta'jek
Angels Of Death EVE Free Worlds Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.25 18:14:00 -
[21]
ahh the imaginary profit vs real profit topic back again..... I imagine the same sort of discussions are had whenever walmart moves into a new area. your choices are simple.. do as others have said,buy him out and relist it at a higher price or keep prices the same and wait for others to buy up his stock.
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Bomale
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Posted - 2009.07.25 18:58:00 -
[22]
Is every traders that now follow .01 iks rule are morons ?
Don't believe it. They trade differently and probably have another goal than some traders that follow .01 isk rule.
So what do you do, with these kind of moronic traders? Nothing.
Keep you eyes on your isks.
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Mova B
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Posted - 2009.07.25 18:59:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jolla Skyia Here is the situation. You have item that sells at Jita for around 800k. Yet in my local trade hub, the "smart" traders have managed to get the prices up around 1,4mil and people still buy.
So we are talking almost 80 to 90% profits, if everyone plays ball and sticks with the .01 wars. Everyone gets some sales and we all make nice profits.. However, there is always 2 types of morons that enter the equation.
Number 1 is the guy that totally tries to kill the market by tossing the items at low ball Jita prices. This guy is easily dealt with buying out his inventory and saying thanks for bringing it to me.
Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
So what do you do, with these kind of moronic traders? Buying them out might only encourage them to put more on the market. If you don't buy them out, it's sure someone else will try to under cut them and then the moron will drop his price another 100k until he kills the market price.
So what do you do?
Perhaps the smart trader managed to get the item with 400k, and is using fast selling..?
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Lord Jita
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Posted - 2009.07.25 19:23:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Lord Jita on 25/07/2009 19:24:10
Hello I am the number 2 moron. But not for the reasons you mention. I do it to pizz you off because I am not a trader, I am just trying to sell some crap I got from PVP as quickly as possible so I can go back to PVPing. but no, instead I get undercut 500 times a day so what better revenge than to destroy your margin? Good day.
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Lyris Nairn
Caldari Empyrean Holdings
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Posted - 2009.07.25 21:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jolla Skyia Here is the situation. You have item that sells at Jita for around 800k. Yet in my local trade hub, the "smart" traders have managed to get the prices up around 1,4mil and people still buy.
So we are talking almost 80 to 90% profits, if everyone plays ball and sticks with the .01 wars. Everyone gets some sales and we all make nice profits.. However, there is always 2 types of morons that enter the equation.
Number 1 is the guy that totally tries to kill the market by tossing the items at low ball Jita prices. This guy is easily dealt with buying out his inventory and saying thanks for bringing it to me.
Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
So what do you do, with these kind of moronic traders? Buying them out might only encourage them to put more on the market. If you don't buy them out, it's sure someone else will try to under cut them and then the moron will drop his price another 100k until he kills the market price.
So what do you do?
Hi. I run missions and sometimes PVP. I do not figure opportunity cost into the price I list a T2 item that I just looted from a wreck in lowsec, or to the Meta4 item I just looted from a mission rat. I view every ISK I make as 100% profit for me. I sell a hauler-full of loot every week or so. I price it to moveùI am not a trader, and I do not want to spend hours fighting price wars with people who have superior trade skills (in-game and out-of-game). I actually WANT you to buy out my lot of 10,000 items that're at 80% market value, and relist them at 99.9999% market value. That gives me a big wad of ISK instantly, and it's the same reason I buy implants with LP instead of ammo; it moves faster, and gets me back to shooting things quicker.
-- "Quite possibly the nicest person who'd ever want to kill you." |
Mova B
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Posted - 2009.07.25 21:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lyris Nairn
Originally by: Jolla Skyia Here is the situation. You have item that sells at Jita for around 800k. Yet in my local trade hub, the "smart" traders have managed to get the prices up around 1,4mil and people still buy.
So we are talking almost 80 to 90% profits, if everyone plays ball and sticks with the .01 wars. Everyone gets some sales and we all make nice profits.. However, there is always 2 types of morons that enter the equation.
Number 1 is the guy that totally tries to kill the market by tossing the items at low ball Jita prices. This guy is easily dealt with buying out his inventory and saying thanks for bringing it to me.
Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
So what do you do, with these kind of moronic traders? Buying them out might only encourage them to put more on the market. If you don't buy them out, it's sure someone else will try to under cut them and then the moron will drop his price another 100k until he kills the market price.
So what do you do?
Hi. I run missions and sometimes PVP. I do not figure opportunity cost into the price I list a T2 item that I just looted from a wreck in lowsec, or to the Meta4 item I just looted from a mission rat. I view every ISK I make as 100% profit for me. I sell a hauler-full of loot every week or so. I price it to moveùI am not a trader, and I do not want to spend hours fighting price wars with people who have superior trade skills (in-game and out-of-game). I actually WANT you to buy out my lot of 10,000 items that're at 80% market value, and relist them at 99.9999% market value. That gives me a big wad of ISK instantly, and it's the same reason I buy implants with LP instead of ammo; it moves faster, and gets me back to shooting things quicker.
And this is the part where I come into picture, buying out loot around the galaxy, quick selling them at hubs, probably ****ing off quite lot 0.01 bidders
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Jotobar
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Posted - 2009.07.25 22:09:00 -
[27]
1. Hangar clean 2. List all those asorted things you don't want to watch at lowest sell order -1/3 of the margin. 3. xxxx 4. Tears of a seal, oh I mean profit.
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Jolla Skyia
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Posted - 2009.07.25 22:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lord Zarcam Have thought that maybe YOU fell into HIS trap and that you are the moron? Maybe this person manufactures his stuff and normally sells in Jita, but YOU have saved HIM a trip by buying out his product? Sounds like you are doing what he wanted all along.
And as far as #2, there are many reason for this, some have been discussed already. It's all PvP, just in a different form! You can partake, get run over or get out.
Originally by: Jolla Skyia Number 1 is the guy that totally tries to kill the market by tossing the items at low ball Jita prices. This guy is easily dealt with buying out his inventory and saying thanks for bringing it to me.
Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
So what do you do?
If I can buy stuff locally at the same prices as Jita which are 90% under current trade prices then I will gladly fall for that trap any day. There is "NO" issues with the the 1st example as those guys make me happy.
It's the other guy that lowers his price by 5% to 10% a pop that is the problem.
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Jolla Skyia
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Posted - 2009.07.25 22:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lord Jita Edited by: Lord Jita on 25/07/2009 19:24:10
Hello I am the number 2 moron. But not for the reasons you mention. I do it to pizz you off because I am not a trader, I am just trying to sell some crap I got from PVP as quickly as possible so I can go back to PVPing. but no, instead I get undercut 500 times a day so what better revenge than to destroy your margin? Good day.
Yet, you think that the .01er's aren't going to under cut your price by .01? You think just because you toss something on the market at 10% lower that no one will under cut you?
If you are putting it high enough above the buy margin, someone will under cut you, so you gain nothing. Your best solution to sell stuff like that is to sell it in a slow hub or take it to a low sec hub.
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Lord Jita
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Posted - 2009.07.26 00:03:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Lord Jita on 26/07/2009 00:03:04
Originally by: Jolla Skyia
Originally by: Lord Jita Edited by: Lord Jita on 25/07/2009 19:24:10
Hello I am the number 2 moron. But not for the reasons you mention. I do it to pizz you off because I am not a trader, I am just trying to sell some crap I got from PVP as quickly as possible so I can go back to PVPing. but no, instead I get undercut 500 times a day so what better revenge than to destroy your margin? Good day.
Yet, you think that the .01er's aren't going to under cut your price by .01? You think just because you toss something on the market at 10% lower that no one will under cut you?
If you are putting it high enough above the buy margin, someone will under cut you, so you gain nothing. Your best solution to sell stuff like that is to sell it in a slow hub or take it to a low sec hub.
Well you are wrong because many don't. The ones that do? I will lower it a few more times to bring the entire price for the region down. Not too low, then I'll just leave it alone. I am out to destroy your margin at that point, i could care less about selling it. The result? Delicious tears in the form of threads like this one.
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