Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 01:58:00 -
[1]
What's the point of cruise missiles ? No one seems to use them for pvp anymore, since their damage is tiny compared to other battleship weapons, and it's only advantage, high dps at extremely high ranges is nullified by the fact that no one needs a sniper with a up to 30 seconds hit ******ation.
Usually it was used for missions, but the numbers don't look good here either: A Raven or Golem with maximum skills (no implants), t2 launchers and 3x t2 BCS does 450 DPS with t1 wrath cruise missiles.
A Drake with t2 launchers and 3x t2 BCS does 462 DPS with fury scourge missiles. In addition to that the t2 scourge are much more precise than t1 cruise missiles: Basic values (without skills): Explosion radius: CM: 300, FuryHM: 215 - FuryHM wins by ~40% Explosion velocity CM: 69m/s, FuryHM: 97m/s - FuryHM wins again by ~40%.
Thats more damage, with a MUCH higher precision, covering the range that is necessary for missions (75km without rigs/implants).
What's left for cruise missiles ? Do they have any use at all ?
|
Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 02:11:00 -
[2]
Your Drake only does that DPS with kinetic missiles.
With other damage types that number is closer to 370 DPS.
Still, I would love to see a revamp of the missile system personally, a way to reduce the damage delay of missile systems with out unbalancing them as a whole. ---
≡√≡ Don't harsh my mellow |
Kismo
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 02:19:00 -
[3]
For the CNR, naturally.
[Raven Navy Issue, PVE Cruise CNR] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Damage Control II
Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile [empty high slot]
Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
|
Enden Assulu
Caldari Blood Money Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 02:46:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Enden Assulu on 19/07/2009 02:46:40
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
A Raven or Golem with maximum skills (no implants), t2 launchers and 3x t2 BCS does 450 DPS with t1 wrath cruise missiles.
A Drake with t2 launchers and 3x t2 BCS does 462 DPS with fury scourge missiles.
So you are comparing t1 missiles with t2 and you are using kinetic missiles with a ship that gets a kinetic damage boost, great comparisons there.
Also cruise Golem?
Click the image! |
Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 07:18:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Forge Lag on 19/07/2009 07:21:35 So you are saying Drake is OP.
Even compared to the Raven.
Interesting find.
Edit: The two gun hardpoints and 75mbit of drones - not trained I assume.
|
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 08:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Forge Lag Edited by: Forge Lag on 19/07/2009 07:21:35 So you are saying Drake is OP.
Even compared to the Raven.
Interesting find.
Edit: The two gun hardpoints and 75mbit of drones - not trained I assume.
Dornes yes, but guns on the Raven? Then you'd be better of in the Rokh :P
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 10:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Enden Assulu Edited by: Enden Assulu on 19/07/2009 02:46:40
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
A Raven or Golem with maximum skills (no implants), t2 launchers and 3x t2 BCS does 450 DPS with t1 wrath cruise missiles.
A Drake with t2 launchers and 3x t2 BCS does 462 DPS with fury scourge missiles.
So you are comparing t1 missiles with t2 and you are using kinetic missiles with a ship that gets a kinetic damage boost, great comparisons there.
Also cruise Golem?
Yes i talk about cruise, that's why cruise Golem. And the point is that t2 cruise missile are totally rubbish and won't work well for missions or anything else with their bad explo radius / explo velocity number. As i already told above, the t2 heavy missile are MUCH preciser than t1 cruise missiles. Much higher precision and higher damage render cruise missiles useless.
Since drones have been mentioned: after drones the damage is around the same, BUT the drake has small drones which are faster and preciser than the raven's medium drones. Drake is faster, more agile, easier to tank and has a high quality dps - it makes the cruise missile raven pretty useless. I mean if the railgun-brutix did the same damage as the railgun-mega, just with a much better tracking and sig. resolution, people would start ranting. Why were the cruise missiles gimped so much ?
|
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 11:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Enden Assulu
Also cruise Golem?
It does actually work. That Cruise Golem. With 2 painters and rigor rigs you can one volley frigates/cruisers/battlecruisers with it. One pop every 8 seconds. Ofc at short distance you can do it with torpedoes also (not sure about frigs tho, I mean cruisers/battlecruisers).
Overall OP has a point, altho cruise missiles are not entirely dead for PvE. Headful of hardwires, 3-4x CN BCU, painter or two, Rigor Rigs, CN ammo and they can do good. T2 ammo for cruise utterly sucks for PvE ofc. Precision is just not worth it against CN ammo regardless of what you shoot at in PvE and Fury is very marginally better against battleships that happen to be doing less than 250 m/s. That edge is so thin tho it's not worth the 10 seconds it takes to switch ammo.
|
GGjita
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 12:27:00 -
[9]
My personal CNR is doing 639 missile dps with an explosion radius of 131. When you throw drones in there it is doing 798 dps. I don't know what there is to complain about with cruise missiles, they do very good dps considering that they have an insane range. Yes they suck for pvp, but in pve they are still very nice.
|
Mystafyre
Caldari The Ghosts
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 13:39:00 -
[10]
Cruise Missiles and Rockets...if you want to PVP and do occasional ratting or missioning, don't bother to train those two - you will not need them
|
|
Rastigan
Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 13:40:00 -
[11]
For PvP cruise missiles are second only to rockets for awesomeness.
They nerfed the heck out of precision cruises to the point that navy ammo is much better vs cruisers and it practically breaks even vs vagabonds (ie crap DPS either way).
|
Wideen
Warped Mining Strip Mining Club
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 15:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: GGjita My personal CNR is doing 639 missile dps with an explosion radius of 131. When you throw drones in there it is doing 798 dps. I don't know what there is to complain about with cruise missiles, they do very good dps considering that they have an insane range. Yes they suck for pvp, but in pve they are still very nice.
ok so you need a CNR and how many CN ballistic control units to achieve that?
|
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 16:13:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Wideen
Originally by: GGjita My personal CNR is doing 639 missile dps with an explosion radius of 131. When you throw drones in there it is doing 798 dps. I don't know what there is to complain about with cruise missiles, they do very good dps considering that they have an insane range. Yes they suck for pvp, but in pve they are still very nice.
ok so you need a CNR and how many CN ballistic control units to achieve that?
3 BCU's, CN ammo, hardwires. Mine does 685 Cruise Missile dps with 4x CN BCU's and 5% hardwire set and CN ammo. It's not like you need those lows for anything else when fitting cruise missiles afterall . Would I use T1 ammo then it would do 595 missile dps and I would not be able to one volley all things I would like to. So it's not reasonable to use T1 for me.
Also - in my experience medium drones are no longer really reasonable in level 4 missions. You will do better with lights or with 3x T2 sentries. Altho it's not like one would need drones to kill frigs with rigor - cruise setup.
Anyway - I'm drifting away from the main point of this post. That being that T2 cruise missiles suck when compared against CN ammo.
|
Asuka Smith
Gallente StarHunt
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 17:38:00 -
[14]
LOL at using navy/T2 ammo for missions...
|
Allahs Warrior
Gallente Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 17:59:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Allahs Warrior on 19/07/2009 17:59:19 [Raven, cm] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot]
[empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot]
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Fury Cruise Missile 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
--------------------------------------
[Rokh, Snipah] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot]
[empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot]
425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
------------------------------
ITT: People complaining about split weapon systems on caldari, not minmatar. ITT: People complaining about their split weapon system battleship not doing as much DPS as say, a minmatar ship with both missiles and autocannons, when their raven is ignoring their other weapon system ITT: People complaining about a weapon that owns POS bashing. (amarr do too tho) ITT: People complaining
|
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 20:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Asuka Smith LOL at using navy/T2 ammo for missions...
It might be hard to believe, but in high end missionrunning it is indeed actually economically sensible activity. If isk/h is better by wide enough margin when using that ammo to cover the ammo cost against using T1 that is. CN ammo offers one 15% better damage. In my case I break even economically isk/h wise in CNR and it is certainly better when using Golem.
|
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.07.19 21:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Asuka Smith LOL at using navy/T2 ammo for missions...
It might be hard to believe, but in high end missionrunning it is indeed actually economically sensible activity. If isk/h is better by wide enough margin when using that ammo to cover the ammo cost against using T1 that is. CN ammo offers one 15% better damage. In my case I break even economically isk/h wise in CNR and it is certainly better when using Golem.
This.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Badmin
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 04:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Asuka Smith LOL at using navy/T2 ammo for missions...
It might be hard to believe, but in high end missionrunning it is indeed actually economically sensible activity. If isk/h is better by wide enough margin when using that ammo to cover the ammo cost against using T1 that is. CN ammo offers one 15% better damage. In my case I break even economically isk/h wise in CNR and it is certainly better when using Golem.
QFT x 2
|
4 LOM
Solaris Operations
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 05:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Badmin
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Asuka Smith LOL at using navy/T2 ammo for missions...
It might be hard to believe, but in high end missionrunning it is indeed actually economically sensible activity. If isk/h is better by wide enough margin when using that ammo to cover the ammo cost against using T1 that is. CN ammo offers one 15% better damage. In my case I break even economically isk/h wise in CNR and it is certainly better when using Golem.
QFT x 2
QFT x 3
(although i use a torp golem... faction missiles are the only way to go... and javalins but i rarely use them)
Originally by: Twilight Moon of course you have nice hair. That pod goo, is actually VO5 conditioner.
|
Kismo
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 05:12:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Kismo on 20/07/2009 05:14:10
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba As i already told above, the t2 heavy missile are MUCH preciser than t1 cruise missiles. Much higher precision and higher damage render cruise missiles useless.
What the hell are you on about?
Drake, 7x HML II (Thunderbolt), 5x Hobgoblin: 412 DPS - DPS Scourge, 490 DPS - DPS CN Scourge, 548 - DPS Fury Scourge, 546 - DPS Fury Scourge, PWNAGE, 600 - DPS Thunderbolt Fury, PWNAGE, 500
CNR, 6x CN Cruise, Paradise Cruise, PWNAGE, No drones: 580 DPS
You beat it out with a TP and fury scourge and drones and it isn't even using drones or faction ammo. Go back in the hole you crawled out of, troll.
Quote: BUT the drake has small drones which are faster and preciser than the raven's medium drones.
Ok, so then the Raven carries SPARES while the Drake is like OHNOESILOSTA****INGDRONELOLOLOLOHNOESWHATSHALLEVERIDO
Now, that said... could Cruise use a boost? Sure, I'm not opposed... my phoon will thank you for it. but if you'd like to take up a cause worth *****ing about, how about we talk about Artillery?
|
|
kyrv
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 07:49:00 -
[21]
Its all topsy turvey!
|
Kismo
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 07:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: kyrv Its all topsy turvey!
oh ****s its how the world is looking rightn ow!! making boss drinking games out of pagies ies ab ad idea fuuuck
|
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 08:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kismo
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba As i already told above, the t2 heavy missile are MUCH preciser than t1 cruise missiles. Much higher precision and higher damage render cruise missiles useless.
What the hell are you on about?
Single heavy missile T2 launcher with Fury ammo on Drake, all level 5 skills - 39 dps, 161 m signature, 145 m/s exp velocity Single cruise missile T2 launcher with CN ammo on Raven, all level 5 skills - 50 dps, 225 m signature, 103 m/s exp velocity. With T1 it has 44 dps. Single cruise missile T2 launcher with Precision ammo on Raven, all lev 5 skills - 38 dps, 202 m signature, 106 m/s exp velocity Single cruise missile T2 launcher with Fury ammo on Raven, all lev 5 skills - 56 dps, 412 m signature, 87 m/s exp velocity.
Or in other words - T2 cruise missiles suck. That what OP is basically saying to you if one has to say it with one sentence. It's not like he is trying to tell you, that Drake is better missionrunner than Raven. It is not.
Longer discussion with tables and figures about Fury vs Precision vs CN can be found in this thread.
|
Kismo
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 08:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Carniflex Or in other words - T2 cruise missiles suck.
Who gives a **** about T2 ammo 4srsly? Its like... hail, and quane, and javelin, and conflag, and **** tons of other t2 ammo sucks. and you think you deserve to have great t2 ammo or something? f-that. cruise is not hurting for a pve role, and really not even for a pvp role once you consider rr phoons.
For PVE: use faction if you want, or don't... you're still better off. For PVP: use faction, just like everyone else.
|
Kismo
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 09:15:00 -
[25]
Eh pardon me, I'm not trying to be belligerant. I've had alot to drink (alot) and cruise missiles are fine weapons indeed next to the pain artillery has gone through these last years.
|
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 10:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kismo Eh pardon me, I'm not trying to be belligerant. I've had alot to drink (alot) and cruise missiles are fine weapons indeed next to the pain artillery has gone through these last years.
Nobody is trying to claim that T2 cruise missiles are the only thing that would benefit from dev taking a look at them to run some numbers and think if that is how they were designed to be or should something be different. There is many other things that are more broken, but that does not remove suckage from T2 cruise missiles.
And I'm not even mentioning FoF missiles that got very very short end of stick with last missile damage formula in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |