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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Sardia Jax
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:12:00 -
[1]
It's getting very annoying going missions, only to have some scab come in and steal my wrecks, honestly, lets get wrecks changed to the status of loot cans...if they cant tractor them in, then they shouldn't be able to salvage them, least not without giving a kill right. Its a total slap in the face for people who have raised the skill, money and rep to do level 4's...lets stop giving the moochers a free ride CCP.
Sign if you agree, and please, no flamers, telling me to stop crying, i killed it, its mine.
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:15:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Sun Clausewitz on 16/07/2009 20:15:25 Or atleast make it a real free for all... so that I can come along and shoot wreck that dont belong to me without Concord smackin me around like a pimp
Edit: I fale at speelin
Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |
Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:16:00 -
[3]
"Slap in the face"
Oh man, I thought I left the WoW forums. Now in the vein hope that this is not a troll. The contents of the salvage is not owned to anyone, simply because since it takes a specific skillset to salvage it, if one does not have these skills, then the salvage goes to waist.
Petitions are generally a bad idea in the fact that you are insulting a playstyle that has been, over and over again, stated to be a viable way. ________________________________________________
Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide! |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:16:00 -
[4]
Petition: Remove all ownership and modules from wrecks. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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N'tek alar
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:17:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Abrazzar Petition: Remove all ownership and modules from wrecks.
/signed
Also, Remove can ownership while you're at it. |
Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Abrazzar Petition: Remove all ownership and modules from wrecks.
Also signed
Also please lower Concord response time in all systems below 1.0 ________________________________________________
Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide! |
Blnukem 192
Amarr Clan Gold Viper
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sardia Jax It's getting very annoying going missions, only to have some scab come in and steal my wrecks, honestly, lets get wrecks changed to the status of loot cans...if they cant tractor them in, then they shouldn't be able to salvage them, least not without giving a kill right. Its a total slap in the face for people who have raised the skill, money and rep to do level 4's...lets stop giving the moochers a free ride CCP.
Sign if you agree, and please, no flamers, telling me to stop crying, i killed it, its mine.
Cry more, please.
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YoYoYOStella
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:22:00 -
[8]
stop whining ya carebare :D
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Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:22:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Cry more, please.
Yes ________________________________________________
Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide! |
Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:26:00 -
[10]
OK, that does it. All those damn salvage whine threads are driving me nuts. I'll just train up an nija salvage alt and give back some of the pain I suffer on the forums.
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Black Leather
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sardia Jax It's getting very annoying going missions, only to have some scab come in and steal my wrecks, honestly, lets get wrecks changed to the status of loot cans...if they cant tractor them in, then they shouldn't be able to salvage them, least not without giving a kill right. Its a total slap in the face for people who have raised the skill, money and rep to do level 4's...lets stop giving the moochers a free ride CCP.
Sign if you agree, and please, no flamers, telling me to stop crying, i killed it, its mine.
The only problem with being a ****ing idiot is that you're a ****ing idiot
Enough with the idiot threads already :(
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Blastrodamus
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:27:00 -
[12]
are ninja's taking your LP? your mission rewards? your bounties?
no? then STFU
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Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sardia Jax It's getting very annoying going missions, only to have some scab come in and steal my wrecks, honestly, lets get wrecks changed to the status of loot cans...if they cant tractor them in, then they shouldn't be able to salvage them, least not without giving a kill right. Its a total slap in the face for people who have raised the skill, money and rep to do level 4's...lets stop giving the moochers a free ride CCP.
Sign if you agree, and please, no flamers, telling me to stop crying, i killed it, its mine.
Wait, wait. I got it the perfect answer!
"But you didn't salvage it!" ________________________________________________
Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide! |
Haakelen
Gallente Nation of Muppets
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:32:00 -
[14]
Petition: stop posting.
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Hoo Is
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sardia Jax It's getting very annoying going missions, only to have some scab come in and steal my wrecks, honestly, lets get wrecks changed to the status of loot cans...if they cant tractor them in, then they shouldn't be able to salvage them, least not without giving a kill right. Its a total slap in the face for people who have raised the skill, money and rep to do level 4's...lets stop giving the moochers a free ride CCP.
Sign if you agree, and please, no flamers, telling me to stop crying, i killed it, its mine.
In Soviet Eve, Wrecks salvage You
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N'tek alar
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Hoo Is
Originally by: Sardia Jax It's getting very annoying going missions, only to have some scab come in and steal my wrecks, honestly, lets get wrecks changed to the status of loot cans...if they cant tractor them in, then they shouldn't be able to salvage them, least not without giving a kill right. Its a total slap in the face for people who have raised the skill, money and rep to do level 4's...lets stop giving the moochers a free ride CCP.
Sign if you agree, and please, no flamers, telling me to stop crying, i killed it, its mine.
In Soviet Eve, Wrecks salvage You
In Soviet Wrecks, You salvage EVE! |
Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: N'tek alar
Originally by: Hoo Is
Originally by: Sardia Jax It's getting very annoying going missions, only to have some scab come in and steal my wrecks, honestly, lets get wrecks changed to the status of loot cans...if they cant tractor them in, then they shouldn't be able to salvage them, least not without giving a kill right. Its a total slap in the face for people who have raised the skill, money and rep to do level 4's...lets stop giving the moochers a free ride CCP.
Sign if you agree, and please, no flamers, telling me to stop crying, i killed it, its mine.
In Soviet Eve, Wrecks salvage You
In Soviet Wrecks, You salvage EVE!
In Eve Wreck, Salvage You! ________________________________________________
Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide! |
Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:39:00 -
[18]
In before the Ninjas.
Hope this isn't your main...
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sardia Jax i killed it, its mine.
Wrong. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Naub
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:44:00 -
[20]
Mmmm...Carebear tears. You know what you could do to avoid this problem? LEAVE MOTSU.
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Krystal Vernet
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:45:00 -
[21]
Should move out of mission hubs if it's happening often.
I had someone pop into my mission last night and start salvaging wrecks. All well and good, but the annoying part was that she was taking the loot too. I had to double back and make sure I had gotten what I needed to finish the mission before killing the rest of the ships there, but at least it had gotten done.
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jagoff
Cosmic Cakes
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:45:00 -
[22]
ninja's love threads like this. it's how they collect their tears.
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Kat Bandeis
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:54:00 -
[23]
Care for some cheese with that whine?
Get over it. If you're too lazy to salvage as you go along you don't deserve to have the salvage.
I do NOT agree with this ludicrous proposal.
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sardia Jax lets stop giving the moochers a free ride CCP..
And you run missions?
________________________________________________ For changes to Minmatar Battleships click here (also with a review of the Muninn!) |
Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:06:00 -
[25]
I run missions.
I can't go into any major hubs because of my sec, but i wouldn't care if somebody came and salvaged my mission. It's my fault I didn't do it fast enough.
If you want the salvage, get it while you're doing the mission or risk it getting taken
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Jandice Ymladris
Caldari Belgian Special Operations
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:08:00 -
[26]
I'm a missioneer myself and tnh, I don't mind the ninjasalvagers, they add a bit of spice tio the otherwise not so exiting career of missioneering. That said, I hardly have any trouble with them.
The advice I give you is: seek out another agent/missionhub. yes there are populated missionhubs with barely to no ninjasalvagers. By example, I do missions for a q20 lvl 4 agent, have yet to run in a ninjasalvager.
I say stick with it, if wrecks gain ownership, it will only grow harder, then you get the same issue as miners have with canflipping, and I'm not looking forward to *wreckflipping*. -------------- Cleaning up wrecks others leave behind! Got to keep space clean! |
Figurehead
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:13:00 -
[27]
To the OP.
NO.
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Arec Bardwin
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:28:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
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Zex Maxwell
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
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LUH 3472
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:30:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
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Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:33:00 -
[31]
Originally by: LUH 3472
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
________________________________________________
Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide! |
Mell Prime
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:35:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
---
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Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:42:00 -
[33]
Oh dear.
The devs keep on saying that the wreck situation is working as intended, and people keep whining.
If you don't like it, make your own bloody game.
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Danadur
Gallente Naval Protection Corp
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
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Arous Drephius
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:48:00 -
[35]
OP: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar Kiroshi Group Exiliar Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Bestofworst Worstofbest In Eve Wreck, Salvage You!
You accidentally the whole meme!
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:52:00 -
[37]
And the OP hasn't posted since, and thus enjoys the success of his trollmanship.
Also, Making wrecks free for all, as well as loot is a superb idea. As is lowering CONCORD response times, and increasing the amount of War-decs to 5, as opposed to 3.
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Cilvius Sanctus
Gallente The Order of Chivalry Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:31:00 -
[38]
I hope CCP does make it so salvaging a wreck gives aggression to the "owner" of the wreck. Then, when somebody is missioning and they shoot somebody who salvaged their wreck and are subsequently blown up they will whine about that.
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:39:00 -
[39]
Ah stop calling them ninjas, they aren't ninjas they are the garbage boys/girls.
Nothing cool about probing out and salvaging wrecks, nothing "ninja" there its just cleaning up the mission area.
May be annoying if they get to clean up faster than you can [afterwards or parallel with an alt] but thats how it is...
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Vixen Renault
Gallente Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:42:00 -
[40]
If someone starts salvaging my wrecks, I just pop the wrecks. Eventually they realize it's a waste of time and leave.
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Junko Togawa
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:50:00 -
[41]
Yeah, change it so we can Warp To Zero! Owate, that was the last epic whine cascade the devs caved to. Uhm...change it so all L4's are in losec? No, that hurts their revenue, it's silleh. OYA! Change it so all wrecks flag aggression! That's it! Most definitely signed. Not to pump up Mission Runner wealth, but to **** off all the so-called Ninjas who want free salvage and watch the epic whines flood the forums when it happens(and I almost guarantee, it will happen sooner or later!)
*sits back with popcorn and enjoys teh shows*
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Bestofworst Worstofbest
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:52:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Vixen Renault If someone starts salvaging my wrecks, I just pop the wrecks. Eventually they realize it's a waste of time and leave.
Bwahaha, just made you lose more isk on the ammo/time. ________________________________________________
Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide! |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:53:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Vixen Renault If someone starts salvaging my wrecks, I just pop the wrecks. Eventually they realize it's a waste of time and leave.
Or they go to all the BS wrecks, force you to pop them, snicker to themselves for causing loss and warp to the next hit. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:57:00 -
[44]
Petition: PVP flag for all salvagers
It's my new goal in life to counter ridiculous requests with the exact opposite, but still equal in sheer ridiculousness.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:57:00 -
[45]
Counter-petition: make it possible to probe for wrecks. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:57:00 -
[46]
Taking anything from a wreck (including salvage) should be legal but should also generate a flag for both the wreck's former owner and for wreck's creator, to allow them to defend their 'salvage rights'. This would no doubt be unpopular among ninja-carebears, since their money-making would then include a modi****of risk, but it should be done nonetheless.
-- Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
SK Rooster
Gallente No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:59:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Sardia Jax i killed it, its mine.
Wrong.
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2009.07.17 01:26:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
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Vidi Angelus
Caldari Crystal Dynamics Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.07.17 01:32:00 -
[49]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Petition: PVP flag for all salvagers
It's my new goal in life to counter ridiculous requests with the exact opposite, but still equal in sheer ridiculousness.
PVP flag for salvagers would be awesome
as for op, a hearty /Notsigned.
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Sense7
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Posted - 2009.07.17 02:09:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Sense7 on 17/07/2009 02:11:41 My mission runner has had the occaisional visit from ninja's from time to time, and most of the time i dont care as me taking the time to salvage i find to be counterproductive to me. The only time i get ****ed is when the smack talkin' ones are in system, but there are things you can do to cause them some grief or make it much more difficult to scan you down in most cases.
My runner has 53 mill SP and is crosstrained amar/caldari, but i run a pimped CNR as i find it's kill speed much better than with a golem. The golem's sensor strength is lower which makes it easier to scan them out for one thing. When ninja's are in system a lot of times i will drop in 1 or even 2 grav sensor II's in, makes it a bit tougher for them to find yah. For the really good ones i'll hop into my nighthawk for some missions and do the same thing, sometimes even a cerbus for some missions as well. The higher the sensor strength/lower the sig radius on your ship, the harder you are to probe down.
I never shoot any guns in any missions, killing guns in a mission isnt required to complete any mission, and that makes life fun for any ninja following behind you in some missions. I fit 1 x rigorII, 2 x rigor 1's on my CNR, which means i rarely if ever use drones, and most ninja's are probing you or your drones to get to yah, so thats one less thing to help them find you. With capped skill and the rigors i get my cruise missle sig down to 123 which means if i want too, i can kill even spider drones with my CM's, although it does take 5 or 6 volleys, but hey, it's worth it sometimes, as i find ninja tears to be pretty yummy too :)
Change your ship name frequently, or sometimes i will fire up a second account and go park him in some obscure place and rename his ship to the name i was flying on my runner, just for giggles.
There are lots of things one can do to soak up a few ninja tears if you are creative.
In the past there are some ninja's that i felt had some style and finesse, and i have gone so far as to fleet em up and let em roll in on my missions, as again i really dont care about the salvage here. What annoys me are the little smack talkin bottom feeders, but following some of the things i do listed above will limit your exposure to them in most cases. Having capped out skills and a pimp fit does make this a lot easier to do, so your milage may vary.
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Celestrias
Gallente Mid Knights Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 02:25:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sardia Jax It's getting very annoying going missions, only to have some scab come in and steal my wrecks, honestly, lets get wrecks changed to the status of loot cans...if they cant tractor them in, then they shouldn't be able to salvage them, least not without giving a kill right. Its a total slap in the face for people who have raised the skill, money and rep to do level 4's...lets stop giving the moochers a free ride CCP.
Sign if you agree, and please, no flamers, telling me to stop crying, i killed it, its mine.
It takes skill to run l4's? please come to Geminate
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Luke S
Zeta Corp.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 02:33:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
---
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Papita
Pod Liberation Authority Pod Liberation Authority.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 04:38:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
THIS
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Michwich
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Posted - 2009.07.17 05:31:00 -
[54]
On the contrary, wrecks are floating garbage, space junk until someone with certain skills can make use of them not unlikee asteroids which dont belong to anybody, and as such wrecks should also be tractor beamable.
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Kendar
Gallente Disney inc
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Posted - 2009.07.17 05:44:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
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Novemb3r
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.17 05:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Celestrias It takes skill to run l4's? please come to Geminate
OK I'm in Geminate. Now what do I do? -
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Taradis
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.07.17 06:03:00 -
[57]
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Verloc Nostromo
Black Mesa LEGION.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 06:15:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Verloc Nostromo on 17/07/2009 06:15:28
Originally by: Sardia Jax It's getting very annoying going missions, only to have some scab come in and steal my wrecks, honestly, lets get wrecks changed to the status of loot cans...if they cant tractor them in, then they shouldn't be able to salvage them, least not without giving a kill right. Its a total slap in the face for people who have raised the skill, money and rep to do level 4's...lets stop giving the moochers a free ride CCP.
Sign if you agree, and please, no flamers, telling me to stop crying, i killed it, its mine.
He has a very good point here. I propose that the wrecks should be tractorable to the ninja without concequence.
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Ivana Drake
Caldari Liberi Fatalius Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 06:33:00 -
[59]
if you cleaned up your mess straight away and not leave it there for an hour then maybe this wouldn't happen
don't be so messy and people won't have to do it for you
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Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
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Posted - 2009.07.17 06:52:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
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Rhak Amharr
Minmatar Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2009.07.17 07:13:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Celestrias It takes skill to run l4's? please come to Geminate
Simply by looking at your post I knew you'd have at least the amount of carebearism the OP would have if he wasn't trolling.
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Nouva MacGyver
Caldari MacGyver Communications
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Posted - 2009.07.17 07:20:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Sardia Jax only to have some scab come in and steal MY wrecks
The wreck is NOT YOURS. End of.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 07:32:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
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Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 07:42:00 -
[64]
would this , or would this not be a troll...
hmm hard _______________ Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Aioa
Planetary Assault Systems
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Posted - 2009.07.17 07:43:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Kat Bandeis Care for some cheese with that whine?
Wow, I've never heard that one before. Very funny and original! Oh god, please don't do the one about the 'whaaambulance, or my sides may actually burst open.
sigh
@ OP, you've already got it pretty good. Stop being greedy, and be careful what you wish for. --
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.07.17 07:59:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Sardia Jax ...Sign if you agree, and please, no flamers, telling me to stop crying, i killed it, its mine.
Since the wreck is tagged as "guristas small wreck" (or whatever), it doesn't belong to you, it belong to the guristas.
If your ship is destroyed, the wreck is yours. Same for npcs.
What's so hard to understand about that?
Stop crying.
Btw, I've never had anyone intrude on my missions. Maybe because I'm a bit smarter than you? ------------------------------------------
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444 444
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Posted - 2009.07.17 08:31:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2009.07.17 08:41:00 -
[68]
Moved to " Features and Ideas Discussion ".
Applebabe Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.07.17 08:45:00 -
[69]
make NPC wrecks and loot free for all.
They actually belong to NPC, so no player should get rights for them.
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silentalleycat
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Posted - 2009.07.17 08:47:00 -
[70]
I don't see whats the problem. If you are still salvaging your LVL 4missions , in my opinion you are doing something wrong. If you are doing lvl 1 and 2 s and maybe even lvl3 , than most of your income are from looting and salvaging. But in my opinion its just not worth looting anymore inLVL 4 s unless you after navy tags. If i knew there are ' ninja salvagers ' in the same system i m doing my missions i would even invite them to come and salvage aslong they agreed to leave the items i need to complete the mission objectives behind . and if you really worried about someone stealing your wrecks , use a alt for salvaging or ask a fellow corpmember to come and salvage .... simple solutions to a simple problem
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.07.17 08:52:00 -
[71]
I like your idea.
Give wrecks back to the ownership of the creator of the wreck.
That's how it was originally, and that's how we got to slaughter endless waves of crying carebears. CCP did what they did to protect you from yourselves and your own ineptitudes.
Yes. Put it back to how it was. Your problems will just multiply 10 fold. As will my profits.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.07.17 08:56:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 17/07/2009 08:56:37
Originally by: Tiny Tove I like your idea.
Give wrecks back to the ownership of the creator of the wreck.
Creator of the wreck? NO, I meant the wrecks/loot has to belong to the guy/party who owned the ship before it got blown up, like we have with player wrecks now. This would be the correct way.
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Jint Hikaru
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.07.17 09:02:00 -
[73]
Quote: in maritime law, the rescue of a ship or its cargo on navigable waters from a peril that, except for the rescuerĘs assistance, would have led to the loss or destruction of the property. Under some jurisdictions, aircraft may also be salved. Except for salvage performed under contract, the rescuerłknown as the salvorłmust act voluntarily without being under any legal duty to do so, apart from the general duty to give assistance to those in peril at sea or to stand by after a collision. So long as the owner or his agent remains on the ship, unwanted offers of salvage may be refused. A derelictła vessel found entirely deserted or abandoned without hope or intention of recoveryłis, however, fair game for anyone who comes across it. Typical acts of salvage include releasing ships that have run aground or on reefs, raising sunken ships (or their cargo), putting out fires, and so on.
THat is a direct quote from Maritime Law. To make it easier for you (i mean the OP)salvage is first come first serve.
There are MANY ways of countering ninja salvagers, yes I'm sorry that they may take a little more effort on your part, but if you want the salvage then work for it.
OH and a little tip -> crying on the boards is the lazy option. ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------ |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.07.17 10:07:00 -
[74]
2003: You are mining MY ORE!!! ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2009.07.17 10:51:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Robert Caldera Edited by: Robert Caldera on 17/07/2009 08:56:37
Originally by: Tiny Tove I like your idea.
Give wrecks back to the ownership of the creator of the wreck.
Creator of the wreck? NO, I meant the wrecks/loot has to belong to the guy/party who owned the ship before it got blown up, like we have with player wrecks now. This would be the correct way.
You want the wrecks to belong to Serpentis or Blood Raiders?
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.17 11:04:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Sardia Jax It's getting very annoying going missions, only to have some scab come in and steal my wrecks, honestly, lets get wrecks changed to the status of loot cans...if they cant tractor them in, then they shouldn't be able to salvage them, least not without giving a kill right. Its a total slap in the face for people who have raised the skill, money and rep to do level 4's...lets stop giving the moochers a free ride CCP.
Sign if you agree, and please, no flamers, telling me to stop crying, i killed it, its mine.
I very much disagree.
Hint:
- Do your mission outside hubs
- Salvage on site
- Even blow up your own wreck is their face to annoy em.
There are many toher meas as well, just use in game tools.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.07.17 11:23:00 -
[77]
Petition - solve salvage theft problems by making salvaging any wreck a CONCORDable offence.
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Mephesto Nizal
Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.07.17 11:53:00 -
[78]
you want ownership on junk, on rubble!? If any, it belongs to the guy who lost his ship. YOU are the violator in this case :p
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.07.17 13:23:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
You want the wrecks to belong to Serpentis or Blood Raiders?
EXACTLY! Because they DO belong to them actually.
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Salliene
Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.17 15:27:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Orion GUardian
Nothing cool about probing out and salvaging wrecks, nothing "ninja" there its just cleaning up the mission area.
Is your last name GUardian cause you are the GUardian of cool?
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Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.07.17 16:21:00 -
[81]
New petition: Make mission deadspace behave like a small pocket of 0.0. No wreck ownership, and everybody is free to shoot anybody. |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.07.17 16:26:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker New petition: Make mission deadspace behave like a small pocket of 0.0. No wreck ownership, and everybody is free to shoot anybody.
YES please do this, you have all my support!! :-D
Finally, no more long trips lasting over hours trough lowsec searching for gank victims, just go to motsu, throw your probes and have fun 8-) |
Gin G
Halls Of Valhalla
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Posted - 2009.07.17 16:41:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
Please refrain from editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
Naomi Wildfire
Amarr Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.07.17 16:48:00 -
[84]
I would like to have a change for pvp purposes. if you kill someone in the empire, every goat heads there and tries to grab free stuff. You have the risk but absolutely no gain. Lock those wrecks for 1-3 minutes so only the one who killed it will able to take the loot. I dont pvp much in the empire but its kinda anoying to see it.
Wildfire - New Horizons |
Paul Clavet
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.17 16:56:00 -
[85]
Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.07.17 17:00:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Sardia Jax It's getting very annoying going missions, only to have some scab come in and steal my wrecks, honestly, lets get wrecks changed to the status of loot cans...if they cant tractor them in, then they shouldn't be able to salvage them, least not without giving a kill right. Its a total slap in the face for people who have raised the skill, money and rep to do level 4's...lets stop giving the moochers a free ride CCP.
Sign if you agree, and please, no flamers, telling me to stop crying, i killed it, its mine.
Bolded the mistake.
They arent your wrecks.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.07.17 17:13:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Gypeto
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Posted - 2009.07.17 17:58:00 -
[88]
I agree With your statement to a point.. salvaging another players wrecks within a mission is rather parasitic but, not a concord offense. Now taking loot from another players wrecks, flags the "ninja" so you may attack them without concord response. Now considering that over 85% is made up of systems with a security level below .5, seems that there are more then enough systems where players are free to do to each other as they see fit. But in the systems with a "high security" there should be some basic level of expected safety, there isn't though. Even within a 1.0 system there is still the real probability that you will deal with another player coming into your mission, salvage your wrecks (not yours I know) and looting the stuff from these wrecks. Now if you decide to do anything about this activity you can be sure that the ninja has friends or corp members just waiting to warp in and jump you. Now i agree that the salvage is basically free for all, but the action of taking the loot from these wrecks should have a steeper penalty. The reality is that it's a simple way for groups, who for whatever reason choose to not go into low or nul sec to still behave as pirates. Feel free to call me a "carebear" but this doesn't make Eve friendly for new players "say what you like about new players but without them games die." I would like to see a simple change made, any action within secure space that results with you being flagged by another player also results in a security loss within that region. This would still allow a certain level of "mooching" but at the same time would better allow new players, or players that just want to mission or mine in peace to feel secure while in secure space... |
Caretaker Renin
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Posted - 2009.07.17 18:09:00 -
[89]
all your salvage are belong to us
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Izztyrr Maemtor
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.17 18:29:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Izztyrr Maemtor on 17/07/2009 18:30:51 Edited by: Izztyrr Maemtor on 17/07/2009 18:29:53 I found all these salvaging QQ threads so entertain that I created my own ninja salvage alt. I think CCP finds them entertaining also. When they say "Salvaging is working as intended". I think they mean "It's giving everyone a good laugh".
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.07.17 18:42:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor Edited by: Izztyrr Maemtor on 17/07/2009 18:30:51 Edited by: Izztyrr Maemtor on 17/07/2009 18:29:53 I found all these salvaging QQ threads so entertain that I created my own ninja salvage alt. I think CCP finds them entertaining also. When they say "Salvaging is working as intended". I think they mean "It's giving everyone a good laugh".
yes, ninja missions is a funny think, did it too sometimes.
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Dristra
Amarr Idle Haven
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Posted - 2009.07.17 18:45:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
Originally by: Sardia Jax Petition: Make Wrecks not free for all
Denied
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.07.17 19:49:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Tippia Counter-petition: make it possible to probe for wrecks.
Wow - for once I agree with Tippia.
I think I heard a seal breaking someplace.
/signed. It's a good idea.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.07.17 20:10:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Jint Hikaru in maritime law, the rescue of a ship or its cargo on navigable waters from a peril that, except for the rescuerĘs assistance, would have led to the loss or destruction of the property. <snip>
It's actually rather a lot more complex than that quote. For one, all salvage must go through an admiralty court and only for treasure salvage (very very old salvaged vessels) is the salvager likely to receive any more than 50% of the value of the salvaged vessel.
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty_law#Salvage_and_treasure_salvage
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Dave Hourai
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.07.17 20:18:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor Edited by: Izztyrr Maemtor on 17/07/2009 18:30:51 Edited by: Izztyrr Maemtor on 17/07/2009 18:29:53 I found all these salvaging QQ threads so entertain that I created my own ninja salvage alt. I think CCP finds them entertaining also. When they say "Salvaging is working as intended". I think they mean "It's giving everyone a good laugh".
/signed, doing the same No Beginning, No End |
Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.07.17 23:55:00 -
[96]
They do it to annoy you and possibly provoke for PvP.
Or they do it because they are poor newbies that cannot do L4s themselves.
Just tell them to kindly come back later and a try to race against your salvager because if they stay they might get agro from rats.
They are indeed annoying but they have it hard and deserve what little they get.
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Nouva MacGyver
Caldari MacGyver Communications
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Posted - 2009.07.18 05:45:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Gypeto players that just want to mission or mine in peace to feel secure while in secure space...
Without this being emotionally charged or an attack towards you or your idea, and as cliche as it may sound, the point is that you, I or anyone that undocks, voluntarily chooses to and/or is liable to PvP. High security does not equate to secure and safe.
There are enough mechanics being reiterated again and again in various threads, directly or indirectly to deal with some of these issues and discussions that are perceived as "problems".
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Khalia Nestune
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.18 08:46:00 -
[98]
As a Ninja, I fully support making salvaging of wrecks an agro-generating offense.
I love the smell of gankships versus PVE ships. Any morning.
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Khalia Nestune
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.18 08:48:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker New petition: Make mission deadspace behave like a small pocket of 0.0. No wreck ownership, and everybody is free to shoot anybody.
YES please do this, you have all my support!! :-D
Finally, no more long trips lasting over hours trough lowsec searching for gank victims, just go to motsu, throw your probes and have fun 8-)
That would be so f--king awesome. /signed
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Doctero
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Posted - 2009.07.18 09:42:00 -
[100]
Salvage is and always will be a free for all fiesta. Deal with it.
I.E., if you want to spend time salvaging, stop being so picky about who blew the ship up in the first place, scan down your own "salvaging missions." Scanning isn't hard, you just have the insider's edge on missions you ran yourself.
If you want to run missions, do that instead and stop *****ing.
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Koyama Ise
Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
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Posted - 2009.07.18 11:59:00 -
[101]
I fly a marauder and when people come into my mission to salvage, all the better there's more than enough to go around and it makes me less likely to spend long amounts of time salvaging it myself.
Petition: Places notices to inform people that interweb pertitions are stupid.
/signed --- Koyama Ise, Applying logic in areas where it is logical to do so. |
Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2009.07.18 12:46:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor
I found all these salvaging QQ threads so entertain that I created my own ninja salvage alt. I think CCP finds them entertaining also. When they say "Salvaging is working as intended". I think they mean "It's giving everyone who leech off other peoples work a good laugh".
Fixed that for ya. Clearly some people are not having a laugh -> those who took the time to blow up those ships.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.07.18 13:20:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 18/07/2009 13:21:01
Originally by: Ariane VoxDei who leech off other peoples work
so the towing service after your car accident is leeching your work?? You should get the wreck, you created it, shouldn't you?
Whats per definition not yours cant be "stolen", mmmkay??
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MacMasters
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Posted - 2009.07.18 14:58:00 -
[104]
locate everyone that complains, probe system, ninjasalvage. i love this game
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Vyktor Abyss
Gallente The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.18 16:36:00 -
[105]
Makes me laugh when people cry about this.
High Sec crybabies...Grow a pair then go run your missions in low-sec if you're so bothered.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.18 18:02:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Whitehound on 18/07/2009 18:03:36 I am not going to read through several pages of flames ... I vote for the removal of ownership on everything one is not sitting in. May a few things come with a lock and a security system, but beyond that shall it be "finders, keepers".
I understand that people can steal from ones wrecks and that the rightful owners feel sad about the loss. Those who take/steal from wrecks that do not belong to them will however never bother with what you believe is yours and how you feel about losing it. And neither does the game engine if it only flags people for 15 minutes.
So either flag thieves for life and give people a kill right against them or do not flag at all. The decision really needs to be made by the developers, but nothing is worse than a half-hearted decision, which leave people hanging in the air and in the end is used to harass new players. -- "Smoke me a kipper. I'll be back for breakfast." - Ace Rimmer |
Sardia Jax
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.19 22:41:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Blastrodamus are ninja's taking your LP? your mission rewards? your bounties?
no? then STFU
no, they are not, however giving people free reign to steal from my hard work just is not right. ya ya, i know its eve blah blah....make it flag the person doing it then, least let me take them out, something
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Sardia Jax
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.19 22:45:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Doctero Salvage is and always will be a free for all fiesta. Deal with it.
I.E., if you want to spend time salvaging, stop being so picky about who blew the ship up in the first place, scan down your own "salvaging missions." Scanning isn't hard, you just have the insider's edge on missions you ran yourself.
If you want to run missions, do that instead and stop *****ing.
your kinda missing the point, i am doing my own missions. and scanning should be hard imo, make it a level 5 skill to even use the bastard, meh, wasting my breath i see from reading the majority of these posts.
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EdwardNardella
Caldari Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.19 23:19:00 -
[109]
It sounds to me like you are disappointed with the level of income you are receiving from your missions. You have three options.
1. Join a mission running corp that will handle the logistics of in mission salvaging for you.
2. Hire someone to follow you in a destroyer to salvage for you.
3. Buy a second account and dual box.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.07.19 23:56:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 19/07/2009 23:57:41
Originally by: Sardia Jax no, they are not, however giving people free reign to steal from my hard work just is not right. ya ya, i know its eve blah blah....make it flag the person doing it then, least let me take them out, something
you're slaughtering, pirating and stealing from NPC too during your missions, hence you're not better so pls STFU
"hard work" hilarious. Salvage is not yours, its NPC, loot is actually not yours too but given you the ownership for some curious reason. One flaw does not justify another flaws, you're whining for.
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Syberbolt8
Gallente Oblivion Industries DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2009.07.20 02:39:00 -
[111]
Originally by: CCP Applebabe Moved to " Features and Ideas Discussion ".
Oh come on, we dont want bad or junk ideas here, we get plenty of those on our own, im just sayin ya know? Support the DEAD HORSE POS's |
Gin G
Halls Of Valhalla
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Posted - 2009.07.20 03:06:00 -
[112]
how about we just STFU about it for ONE week Please refrain from editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar Ray of Matar Assembly
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Posted - 2009.07.20 03:59:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Sardia Jax and scanning should be hard imo, make it a level 5 skill to even use the bastard, meh, wasting my breath i see from reading the majority of these posts.
And there we have it, the subtle admission of a carebear that he wants everything in game to be really really difficult EXCEPT what he wants to do. Sure screw plexers, screw grav site miners, screw hackers, screw archaeologists, screw pvpers and most of all screw salvagers just so long as my one dimensional Eve existence remains EASY and RIDICULOUSLY OVERPAID.
Get bent. well mannered a**h***
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Sargahn
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Posted - 2009.07.26 05:48:00 -
[114]
*Here's the petition I submitted concerning this issue...*
Something needs to be done within the game mechanics in order to give mission runners the ability to protect themselves\their assests when running missions when it comes to ninja salvangeners. I can't believe this exploit has continued as long as it has without the ability for pilots in high sec to protect the fruits of their labors. I can't understand why the developers of a game would permit such a loophole for such disrepectful behavior\game play, it's as though they're promoting it by doing nothing about it. I have no problems with PvP and getting owned because someone is better skilled and equiped than me, but to allow other players to come in and salvage my wrecks without me being able to do anyting about it just doesn't make much sense to me? If other players loot the actual wreck I can engage them, but if they steal my salvage I can't do a damn thing???? This doesn't make any sense to me at all???
Can't the developers include some type of salvage options within the game to allow certain groups to salvage a players personal wrecks? For example, couldn't there be a salvaging option that allows players to choose who can loot their salvage, like: Corporation Only, Alliance Only, Group Only??? Something to effect where if a ninja salvenger came in and started salvenging my loot it would trigger an aggression timer just as if he had looted the actual wreck? This way it would at least allow me to attempt to protect what I have worked hard for? I don't know if this is the solution, but something needs to be done about this issue.
If nothing is in the works to correct this exploit and CCP allows and promotes this type of game play in their product, then I will have to reconcider paying for my two accounts and take my business else where. I have plenty of friends playing Vanguard I can join up with. I'm not the only person this is affecting either, and I have a friend who is currently playing too and he's thinking about quiting because the ninja salvenging is starting to become more and more frequent. Please, just give us the ability to fight them off and defend what we worked for...and shooting our wrecks isn't the solution! I love playing EvE and don't want to leave it, but this issue is one I'll stand up for and fight for because it's unfairly balanced and needs to be addressed\fixed.
Thank you for you time...
*and the GM's response was....*
Hi,
Thank you very much for your suggestion. As we in the GM team have no direct ties to the Development team, I suggest that you post about this idea and any other ideas you might have for optimizing and improving the game in the Features and Ideas Discussion section of our official forums.
The Dev team regularly reads it and takes feedback into consideration while working their hardest to improve the game.
Here is a direct link to the section: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=channel&channelID=3523
If you have any further issues, please don't hesitate to contact us again.
Best regards, GM Macayle EVE Online Customer Support
The loot I get from salvaging is 60-70% of my income, and allowing other players to come in and basically steal it from me is not something I enjoy and will not pay real $$$ for. I'm not going to pay some bully to tie my hands behind my back and let him punch me in the face while I sit there helpless. I petitioned with my dollars and canceled both of my accounts, and I encourage anyone else who is serious about this issue to do the same. I love EvE and don't want to leave it, but I can't sit there and watch other peeps loot my wrecks while I'm tanking 15 BS'es in a lvl 4 mission. It's flat out just not fair, when you plan on going back and looting those wrecks for yourself. End the socailism CCP...CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNTS IF YOU AGREE because money is the only thing they will listen to! And when you cancel your accout\s let them know why!
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Sargahn
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Posted - 2009.07.26 06:04:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Sargahn on 26/07/2009 06:04:39 Don't let the p*r*i*c*k*s push you around...VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET! It's the only thing that will get their attention.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.26 08:22:00 -
[116]
They are not stealing from you
Learn to do a mission proper imo.
Besides, if the wrecks really should belong to someone, it should the the ones that got killed (i.e. the rats or teh killed player), cetanly not your lazy mission running ass. But even this is wierd.
This is not WOW, where you get pamperd up your ass all the time. In EVE there exist competition for the resources.
Deal with it, or gtfo. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Bloodie Mary
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Posted - 2009.07.26 10:43:00 -
[117]
People were doing missions well before salvaging existed as a profession. There was no complaint that these missions were not giving them a high enough reward, rightly so! Now, with the addition of salvaging as a profession these mission runners seem to believe it is their right to access that salvage, and that they have somehow earnt it?!
Your missions are no different now than they were before this profession was devised. Stop making out that you have somehow earnt these wrecks. They are just a natural by-product of what you were already doing. If someone gets to them before you, you should speed the heck up.
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Nemesis Factor
Caldari RennTech Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.27 05:01:00 -
[118]
I believe scavenging is a legitimate business, but that mission wrecks should in fact belong only to the missioner. I think a good solution is having a sort of 'gatekeeper' at the beginning of every level 4 deadspace who holds a key. Then this key would open up the acceleration gate for ten seconds.
And I don't mean a physical key either. Some sort of code (that you don't have to remember) so even if you lose your ship, you can still go back. ~/~ Sultan of Buruni |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.07.27 09:20:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 27/07/2009 09:24:22
Originally by: Nemesis Factor but that mission wrecks should in fact belong only to the missioner.
no, they belong to the guy who got killed, whats the current loot implementation for player wrecks.
If I kill you I still does not own your stuff and I would commit robbery taking your stuff, actually an act the fat mission runner asses are complaining here about...
Originally by: Nemesis Factor Then this key would open up the acceleration gate for ten seconds.
No need for a mission runnung boost, they need a nerf rather. Besides that, you want absolutely riskfree mission running and forget there are people which arent interested in missions but liking another activities like PvP and ganking mission runners, your suggested change would take them that opportunities and make YOU immune against PvP. Well, as I wrote above, this boost is the last thing we need in eve.
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Hellen Highwater
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Posted - 2009.07.28 14:10:00 -
[120]
The only petition that would make any difference would be if you cancel your account and supply this as the reason you cancelled. |
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