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Saraphos
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:13:00 -
[1]
Now before you start going all crazy about how I've turned a beautiful ship into an abomination, please let me state the following. I am aware that the paladin has an ARMOR REPAIR bonus, I am also aware that most people overtank them WAY to much, thus I set out to try to create a viable shield tanked paladin setup, mostly because I already had a set of crystals in my head and I felt like it. Thoughts/suggestions/etc would be appreciated.
[Paladin, SHIELD OMG] Damage Control II Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Domination 100MN Afterburner Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
[empty rig slot] (Dunno what rigs to use, CPU is very tight so I can't use weapon rigs) [empty rig slot]
In theory, if I wanted to invest in fitting rigs/implants/whatever to squeeze out 5 more percent CPU, I could swap out the faction tachs for T2 which would give me 1-2% more overall dps.
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temponita
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:20:00 -
[2]
Interesting fit. Question is... are there any advantages to doing this as opposed to a bonus setup?
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KittenSoft
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:41:00 -
[3]
at work so no EFT, but I'd imagine it's because he said he has crystals.
I'm in the same boat actually...got a nightmare, but feeling the pull of the marauder. Unfortunantly, little to no armor skills so I'll probably take a look at this one too.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:42:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 14/07/2009 16:43:38
Originally by: temponita Interesting fit. Question is... are there any advantages to doing this as opposed to a bonus setup?
Superior damage in every way compared to an armor tanked setup :).
Seems to be good, should run mission easy enough.
As for rigs: try 2 CCC rigs.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:46:00 -
[5]
Nightmare. It will do what you want. It will do it better. It costs the same. It is already an abomination. And buy a corm for salvaging if that's one of your primary reasons for a Marauder.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: el caido Nightmare. It will do what you want. It will do it better. It costs the same. It is already an abomination. And buy a corm for salvaging if that's one of your primary reasons for a Marauder.
Only downside is that he needs to skill a new set of BS skills. This paldin shouls perfomr more then enough. Level 4s are horribly easy to tank, and with the damage this beast puts out I doubt he will need to use the booster that often.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:51:00 -
[7]
If he owns a Crystal set but isn't at least close to Cal BS, I'd be surprised.
Well ... maybe not too surprised.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: el caido If he owns a Crystal set but isn't at least close to Cal BS, I'd be surprised.
Well ... maybe not too surprised.
He could have minmatar for all I know ;P
But you do got a point tho ;)
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
rodensteiner
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:56:00 -
[9]
How long will the cap last with AB, Tachs and booster running?
Also, just out of curiousity, how much damage does the 4th heatsink add?
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.14 16:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: rodensteiner How long will the cap last with AB, Tachs and booster running?
Also, just out of curiousity, how much damage does the 4th heatsink add?
It sohuld add between 6% and 16% somewhere, I can not quite remmeber. But enough to impact missions non the less. Doing level 4s all aobut doing the quick ot get the isk.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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Saraphos
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:03:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Saraphos on 14/07/2009 17:04:07 I have a nightmare, in fact im basically stripping it, buying an extra heat sink and tracking enh and putting it on the paladin. I guess the project revolves around getting the deeps that the nightmare has and the flexibility of the paladins tractor bonus.
Cap is 2ish mins with everything running, without rigs.
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Zeerover
DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:04:00 -
[12]
Mis-using the stack penalty on the Cap power relays could be interesting in such a fit. I've also removed the hideously expensive gist booster, and added faction crystals.
[Paladin, shield paladin] 4x Amarr Navy Capacitor Power Relay
3x Amarr Navy Heat Sink
2x Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
4x Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
3x Small Tractor Beam I
2x Capacitor Control Circuit II 5x Hammerhead II
This setup is cap stable at 54%. Tanks 600dps (plus your crystal set) and dishes out 1025 dps of damage.
Now with the Gist booster (if you own it already) you can play around with tracking enhancers and other stuff.
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Sturmwolke
Genyosha Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.14 17:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Saraphos I set out to try to create a viable shield tanked paladin setup, mostly because I already had a set of crystals in my head and I felt like it. Thoughts/suggestions/etc would be appreciated.
Very interesting, if not for the omg pricing for the Gist shield booster. I would probably do it like this :
Damage Control II Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Energy Discharge Elutrition II
Basic concept of this build is reasonable pricing, best shield boost efficiency and minimized weapons energy expenditure. Laser shield boats need to prioritize the latter two. Buffing the cap/cap recharge rate for laser shield boats is the wrong approach, imo, so I don't put CCC/SMC/CPR/CFC.
You don't really need an AB with tachyons and the SBA can be taken out as situation warrants. Screen reinforcer and elutriation T2 rigs are too cheap not to use on a marauder.
You can sustain all guns and shields active for about 6 mins at max skill. Stable at 57% with no guns active, meaning your guns can be recharged without waiting too long.
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Saraphos
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Posted - 2009.07.14 18:00:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zeerover Mis-using the stack penalty on the Cap power relays could be interesting in such a fit. I've also removed the hideously expensive gist booster, and added faction crystals.
[Paladin, shield paladin] 4x Amarr Navy Capacitor Power Relay
3x Amarr Navy Heat Sink
2x Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
4x Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
3x Small Tractor Beam I
2x Capacitor Control Circuit II 5x Hammerhead II
This setup is cap stable at 54%. Tanks 600dps (plus your crystal set) and dishes out 1025 dps of damage.
Now with the Gist booster (if you own it already) you can play around with tracking enhancers and other stuff.
I think that setup is way over tanked and cap stability is over rated :/
As for Sturmwolke, I like your idea of using a med booster, since it might free up enough CPU space for gun rigs, however, arent med c types approaching 1.2-1.5b? I picked up my gist a while back for just under 900m.
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Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.07.14 18:02:00 -
[15]
The problem with shieldtanking a Paladin is that to really use the Paladin to its full potential you need to run missions against Blood and Sansha. And against those, a 3-slot shieldtank might not be good enough due to the crap base shield resists to EM and therm. While a 3-slot armortank gets you through all missions agaisnt these NPCs with no problem. And of course the need for a damn expensive shield booster and high-end hardeners to even think of making it work. While an armortank is fine with T2. And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.14 18:18:00 -
[16]
Edited by: The Djego on 14/07/2009 18:22:06
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Originally by: rodensteiner How long will the cap last with AB, Tachs and booster running?
Also, just out of curiousity, how much damage does the 4th heatsink add?
It sohuld add between 6% and 16% somewhere, I can not quite remmeber. But enough to impact missions non the less. Doing level 4s all aobut doing the quick ot get the isk.
It is around 6% damage. A armor tanked Paladin with 3 HS and 2 TCs with tracking scripts is more handy in my opinion(more tracking = more DPS on the target, mostly for sniping frigs and cruisers at close orbit). You could also only use 3 slots for tank and also fit 4 HS on the Paladin, I did the same on the Abaddon(3HS and 1 CPR + Repper and 2x EANM).
Suprisingly the mod that saves the most time on a Paladin(at least in my case) is a salvage tackle II to be able to keep up with the killing speed if you want to salvage. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Sturmwolke
Genyosha Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.14 18:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Saraphos
As for Sturmwolke, I like your idea of using a med booster, since it might free up enough CPU space for gun rigs, however, arent med c types approaching 1.2-1.5b? I picked up my gist a while back for just under 900m.
Check the Pithum C-Type contracts. You'll be pleasantly surprised. |
Saraphos
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Posted - 2009.07.14 18:32:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Saraphos on 14/07/2009 18:33:52 I am not arguing that armor tank is a bad idea, I'm just saying, that shield tanking seems like a completely viable idea (arguably can output more dps) and just looking for more ways to improve it.
I think the giant EM shield hole can be plugged up by an EM shield rig. Also, you are mostly 2-4 volleying things at AMF optimal, which is 35-48ish depending on skills/setup, you aren't really taking much damage back. As for using tracking computers, how often do you have cruisers coming within 15-20 km of you when using tachyons...
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.14 18:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Saraphos Edited by: Saraphos on 14/07/2009 18:33:52 I am not arguing that armor tank is a bad idea, I'm just saying, that shield tanking seems like a completely viable idea (arguably can output more dps) and just looking for more ways to improve it.
I think the giant EM shield hole can be plugged up by an EM shield rig. Also, you are mostly 2-4 volleying things at AMF optimal, which is 35-48ish depending on skills/setup, you aren't really taking much damage back. As for using tracking computers, how often do you have cruisers coming within 15-20 km of you when using tachyons...
There are quite a few missions where this happens, also im quite lazy so i wonŠt shoot mutch stuff at a longer range than 40km if I want to loot/salvage it.
Im not speeking against your shield tank, I did L4 before with a 200 DPS tank on my Abaddon(Med Rep +2 EANM mostly), it isnŠt this hard and it should do fine. I was only pointing out that quite often the extra tracking can be as usefull as the 6% raw DPS and that the extra kill speed is preaty mutch pointless if you want to salvage and loot(if this is the main point you want to use the Pala instead the Nightmare, what would be obvious better suited for this kind of fittings). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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temponita
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Posted - 2009.07.14 19:43:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Superior damage in every way compared to an armor tanked setup :)
Nah... you can do the same DPS with a tank as well.
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Cadius Vect
Domination. THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.07.15 00:47:00 -
[21]
OP's setup tanks 260 dps and that's with 2 CCC II's and the full set of crystals, thats not enough for pretty much every lv4 even with 1000 dps + -----------------------------------------------------------
Killboard: http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-Cadius+Vect-kills.html |
Serj Reaper
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.15 01:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cadius Vect OP's setup tanks 260 dps and that's with 2 CCC II's and the full set of crystals, thats not enough for pretty much every lv4 even with 1000 dps +
Uh huh....His tank is plenty and frankly the setup would work quite well. I was thinking of setting up a setup like this on eft today actually.
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World Director
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Posted - 2009.07.15 02:35:00 -
[23]
I'd swap invuls for apropriate resistance and go rat blood/sansha in this.
Damage wins at belt cleanup efficiency.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.15 04:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Saraphos Now before you start going all crazy about how I've turned a beautiful ship into an abomination, please let me state the following. I am aware that the paladin has an ARMOR REPAIR bonus, I am also aware that most people overtank them WAY to much, thus I set out to try to create a viable shield tanked paladin setup, mostly because I already had a set of crystals in my head and I felt like it. Thoughts/suggestions/etc would be appreciated.
[Paladin, SHIELD OMG] Damage Control II Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Domination 100MN Afterburner Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
(Dunno what rigs to use, CPU is very tight so I can't use weapon rigs)
In theory, if I wanted to invest in fitting rigs/implants/whatever to squeeze out 5 more percent CPU, I could swap out the faction tachs for T2 which would give me 1-2% more overall dps.
luckily weapon rigs add Powergrid on lasers
and yea it works but meh, I'd rather use my midslots for tracking comps, and 3/4 lowslots for armor tank rather then the tracking enhancers, and 4th heatsink.
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Captain Cupcakes
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Posted - 2009.07.15 06:39:00 -
[25]
[Paladin, New Setup 1] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II Power Diagnostic System II Tracking Enhancer II
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Gist C-Type Photon Scattering Field Gist C-Type Photon Scattering Field Gist C-Type Heat Dissipation Field
Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Salvager II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hammerhead II x5
1083 dps 503 dps tank (Used 60% EM 40% Therm) Cap last 4 minutes and 13 seconds
[Paladin, New Setup 2] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Centus C-Type Large Armor Repairer Core C-Type Armor EM Hardener Core C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Cap Recharger II
Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II
Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hammerhead II x5
1083 dps 505 dps tank Cap lasts 4 minutes 23 seconds
I had to bite on this. I just recently went from a Golem to a Nightmare (for a change of pace). I miss the salvage/tractor bonuses of my Golem but I don't have any real armor skills at all so I haven't considered the Pally. Yeah I know I used some random hardeners for the shield setup, but I have them on my Nightmare for some reason. I don't know how much the target painter would help, it could easily be substituted for another cap recharger or whatever. I can't find a viable fit where a shield tank would provide an advantage. I could probably get by just fine with the above shield tanked Pally but shield tanking it still doesn't make it vertical and that's all that really matters.
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temponita
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Posted - 2009.07.15 07:09:00 -
[26]
I realize you're not there yet, but I much prefer a cap stable 1200+DPS Pally with a perma repper than your setup.
But... if it works and your having fun with it, then that's what really counts!
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Captain Cupcakes
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Posted - 2009.07.15 07:45:00 -
[27]
Even with an AB, I find that pulses aren't as effective in missions (outside EFT) as Tachs. I suppose that's just a personal preference for me.
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Kenji Hideyoshi
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Posted - 2009.07.15 09:16:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Kenji Hideyoshi on 15/07/2009 09:23:33 Edited by: Kenji Hideyoshi on 15/07/2009 09:22:51 I did a quick spreadsheet thingy to see how much DPS was gained for each heatsink. I'm using T2 Tachs and navy ammo/heatsinks for this comparison. Not sure how to easily set up something that looks like a table on the forum, so I'll list the table headers first, and then try to set up the values afterwards.
Column 1: # of Heat Sinks Column 2: DPS Column 3: % Increase (Total) Column 4: % Increase (Compared to previous value)
0524BaseBase 1658125,6%25,6% 2803153,2%22,0% 3915174,6%13,9% 4977186,5%6,8% 51001191,0%2,5% 61008192,4%0,7% 71009192,6%0,1%
So the real benefit of this setup is 6.8% added DPS - which is not bad at all. I guess it comes down to how much tank you need/want and how much damage you need/want. Vanity is of course also a factor.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.15 09:38:00 -
[29]
Pashan's Turret Handlling Mindlink would add 7% damage, G2-Epsilon will add 5% - neither use up a low-slot which imo can be put to better use on both Paladin and Nightmare than a 4th heatsink.
The main problem I can see with ignoring the armour rep bonus on the Paladin is you're ending up with a ship that has a pretty meh shield tank and at the same no room for cap mods. Shield tanking it also means you're ignoring the web bonus too.
I know it's possible to do L4s with bizarre setups but why bother "wasting" a 1bn+ ship for it?
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General Trajan
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.07.15 14:38:00 -
[30]
with all due respect, why not just shield tank a golem or CNR to get the best use of your crystal implants? or nightmare for that matter!
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