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Dalacha
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.21 16:28:00 -
[1]
Heya.
I'm a Frig pilot, mainly using AF's, Interceptors and T1 frigs and mostly doing solo pirating for PvP. I have about 11.5 mill (Not much, I know) SP invested into combat & fitting skills for small ships (And a lot invested into Drone skills). I've been using Gallente ships (Incursus, Taranis & Ishkur) a lot, but recently skilled up Minmatar Frigates and Projectile Weapons to use the Rifter, which I've really liked so far for solo pirate roaming.
Now, here comes my question. I'm wondering if I should get my Minmatar related skills up to lvl 5 so I can use T2 Projectile weapons and Minny AF's and Inties. How does the Minmatar AF's and Interceptors compare to the Enyo, Ishkur and Taranis for solo roaming? Should I invest the time required into skilling up for these or should I continue working on my other skills which will affect all my ships (Rifter included)? (Incase anyone is wondering, curently I have Projectile Turrets 4 and Minmatar Frigs 3)
Enjoy your life, you won't get a re-run. |
VanNostrum
The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.06.21 17:37:00 -
[2]
Edited by: VanNostrum on 21/06/2009 17:37:58 Hi
I'd personally train AF/Int to V and train drone interfacing/durability to V instead of crosstraining for minmatar AF/int. You already spent time to train gallente, might as well finish what you started and fly gallente with max skills instead of flying gallente+minmatar with mediocre skills.
edit: that's just my opinion tho, time is yours :)
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Dalacha
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.21 17:44:00 -
[3]
Okay, thanks for the advice =). I'll definatley do that.
Enjoy your life, you won't get a re-run. |
Psiri
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Posted - 2009.06.21 18:18:00 -
[4]
I'd say, train for T2 projectiles if you're aiming to fly Minmatar cruisers, T2 cruisers and BC's.
Wolf > Enyo (Wolf has the range to make up for its loss of web and is faster)
Ishkur > Jaguar (but the Jaguar requires no SP in drones, which in your case doesn't matter, and tbh it's nice not to be dependant on drones)
Don't train AF's V for an Ishkur and there's probably better things to train for than AF's V for a Jaguar unless you are a huge AF fan. Instead, make sure that your support skills are all properly done (navigaiton, capacitor, fitting, gunnery support, drones etc).
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NorthEasterly
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Posted - 2009.06.21 18:21:00 -
[5]
<---curious as to why you'd take a rifter over an ishkur for pirate roaming.
Minnie and Gallente inties/AF's are fairly balanced against eachother. Ranis and claw are extremely evenly matched, and jag / ishkur both fullfil as much of a role as any AF can (AF's suck and serve no purpose unless you're solo pirating, or running in a frig gang).
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.06.21 18:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: NorthEasterly <---curious as to why you'd take a rifter over an ishkur for pirate roaming.
cost?
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UMEE
Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.06.21 18:32:00 -
[7]
key difference between jag and ishkur: ishkur can dps with mwd on. in a fleet situation, this means you can warp disrupt a target 24km away, while your warriors chase down the other gang`s ceptors or ecm boats. if you want to just tackle larger targets, i would recommend the jag because it has a better buffer tank, and dps is irrelevant in this case. for versatility and multiple roles in a fleet, ishkur is much more useful in my opinion.
if for some reason you dont like flying t1 cruisers, and would like to fly a dps AF, wolf and enyo are quite balanced...enyo does more dps, wolf has bit of a better tank. |
UMEE
Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.06.21 18:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: VanNostrum Edited by: VanNostrum on 21/06/2009 17:37:58 Hi
I'd personally train AF/Int to V and train drone interfacing/durability to V instead of crosstraining for minmatar AF/int. You already spent time to train gallente, might as well finish what you started and fly gallente with max skills instead of flying gallente+minmatar with mediocre skills.
edit: that's just my opinion tho, time is yours :)
please for the love of god, DO NOT train drone durability and AF to 5. you can be training for more useful ships instead. |
Dalacha
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.21 18:43:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Dalacha on 21/06/2009 18:43:20
Originally by: Psiri
Originally by: NorthEasterly <---curious as to why you'd take a rifter over an ishkur for pirate roaming.
cost?
Yup, that would pretty much sum it up hehe =).
Originally by: UMEE
if for some reason you dont like flying t1 cruisers, and would like to fly a dps AF, wolf and enyo are quite balanced...enyo does more dps, wolf has bit of a better tank.
Okay, I think I'll stick to Gallente for now in that case, since I personally prefer more DPS over Tank (Better for taking out bigger targets that you can speed tank before backup shows up). As far as AF vs Cruiser, I do use a Vexxor for Ratting, but I prefer frig sized ships for PvP (Just a personal preference as I enjoy the "feel" of flying smaller ships over larger ones).
Originally by: UMEE
please for the love of god, DO NOT train drone durability and AF to 5. you can be training for more useful ships instead.
Okay, I'll keep them at IV for now (Curently I am working on my rig skills, since I've been flying rig-less due to cost issues so far but am considering making an exception once in a while for fun). I don't think I'll start training up for any larger ship-types atm though, since even though they might be more useful in gangs/fleets, atm I'm 100% solo.
EDIT: Oh, and thanks for all the replies =). |
steveid
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.06.21 18:52:00 -
[10]
If your going to cross train another race, go amarr. Both amarr af are damn good and both inties are pretty good also. Punisher is ofc one of the best frigates. |
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Jesslyn Daggererux
Gallente Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.06.21 19:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: steveid If your going to cross train another race, go amarr. Both amarr af are damn good and both inties are pretty good also. Punisher is ofc one of the best frigates.
lolamarr. its time to bring this back. i mean you have a rocket bonus ship, or a ship with 1 mid. i would use the retribution for missions or plexes, or if your in a gang i guess and they have tackle. but if they have tackle why are you in a frig hull? its not a bad ship on paper, but it lacks the real uses most people would want an AF for. tackle, fast lock, and a speed. since that all relies on your mids, good luck. and rockets... the vengence brings nothing to the table you cant get out of an ishkur or jag. its slow, has horrible range...not bad but lackluster ship, to me. |
Dalacha
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.21 19:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: steveid If your going to cross train another race, go amarr. Both amarr af are damn good and both inties are pretty good also. Punisher is ofc one of the best frigates.
Thanks for the tip, but I'll stay Gallente. The reason I was considering cross-training for Minmatar was that I'm already using the Rifter, so already have a couple of Minmatar related skills. I don't want to start training up skills for a third race as well.
Enjoy your life, you won't get a re-run. |
VanNostrum
The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.06.21 20:36:00 -
[13]
dont listen to trolls who lol at drone interfacing or durability V, both give your drones 20% more shield/armor/structure hp drone skills are useful whatever race you are, you'll be thankful when your warrior IIs rip enemy frigs apart but that won't happen unless you train the necessary drone skills.
ishkur is a beast and any frig/cruiser would think twice before tackling one, and would regret doing so if you're maxed skilled in flying one
but of course you might as well join the bandwagon and train for autocannon spec III and fly a mediocre wolf/jag |
Dalacha
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.21 20:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: VanNostrum dont listen to trolls who lol at drone interfacing or durability V, both give your drones 20% more shield/armor/structure hp drone skills are useful whatever race you are, you'll be thankful when your warrior IIs rip enemy frigs apart but that won't happen unless you train the necessary drone skills.
ishkur is a beast and any frig/cruiser would think twice before tackling one, and would regret doing so if you're maxed skilled in flying one
but of course you might as well join the bandwagon and train for autocannon spec III and fly a mediocre wolf/jag
Nah, I'll stick to my Galente ships =). Both Drone Durability & Interfacing is at IV atm for me, and I'm loking to getting them both to V in a short while, with Interfacing being the one I'll train to V first out of the two =).
And yeah, I definatley know what you mean about Drone skills being usefull. Drones (more or less tied with Gunnery) are the skill-group I have invested the most SP's into so far, with most combat oriented drone skills being at IV or V =). |
Draulin
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.21 21:23:00 -
[15]
Ishkur with T2 drones = win. |
Dalacha
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.21 21:39:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Dalacha on 21/06/2009 21:39:32
Originally by: Draulin Ishkur with T2 drones = win.
Couldn't agree more =). Together with the Taranis it is definatley my favorite ship. To bad my wallet-size means I can only PvP in either once in a while, with the Rifter and Incursus being my "standard" ships. |
Enden Assulu
Caldari Blood Money Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.21 22:05:00 -
[17]
Would personally replace drone interfacing V with Gallente cruiser V and replace Drone durability V with medium hybrid turret V. Gives you access to the Vexor/Thorax which are both very decent cruisers.
Click the image! |
Dalacha
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.21 22:11:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Dalacha on 21/06/2009 22:11:52
Originally by: Enden Assulu Would personally replace drone interfacing V with Gallente cruiser V and replace Drone durability V with medium hybrid turret V. Gives you access to the Vexor/Thorax which are both very decent cruisers.
Thanks for the advice, but even though I do enjoy the Vexor as my ratting ship of choice, I like PvP'ing in Frig sized ships. So even though I definatley think the Vexor and Thorax are great ships to PvP in, they are just not something I'd enjoy as much as using Frigs, PvP wise. (And in the end, all that matters is how much fun your having, right? =))
Enjoy your life, you won't get a re-run. |
Kane Starkiller
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Posted - 2009.06.21 22:43:00 -
[19]
well yeah fun is important but my assfrigs are currently rusting at the moment.
The Vexor does almost everything better than an ishkur (besides agility an sig radius) and at a cheaper price.
And it's the same thing with thorax>enyo. There's really no point to af's at the moment. Especially all those lol fit one's with afterburners. A cruiser will completly own one so you're left with attacking other frigates.
For me a wider target selection is my fun. I know I can take on ships with my Vexors and Thoraxes that I wouldn't dream of in an AF.
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Dalacha
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.21 22:51:00 -
[20]
I definatley see what you mean, Kane, but I personally have this thing where I want to use only Frig Sized ships. When I started playing EVE, I decided to myself to try and be a sucessfull pilot using nothing but T1 & T2 frigs.
Now, a bit over a year later, I'm hardly sucesfull, and I do use other ships for none-PvP related things (Industrials fortransporting stuff and my good old Vexor for ratting) but I'm still doing fine (IMO, anyways) staying with frigs in PvP, and I'm having fun doing it.
So for me, doing what I set out to do and enjoying doing it is more important than being more cost-effective. 95% of the time I use a Rifter or Incursus for PvP anyways, the T2 frigs are for me just something I use when I feel like I have a few extra mill of ISK to spare and can go out and have some extra fun. |
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Zo5o
Broski Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.06.21 22:56:00 -
[21]
Ishkur is frig-sized ship of choice for solo work.
It can kill anything that can catch it, and it can run from anything it can't kill. |
El'Tar
Caldari Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2009.06.22 01:27:00 -
[22]
Or you can kill the hac in your ishkur |
Lord Beginner
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Posted - 2009.06.22 01:37:00 -
[23]
Jaguar and Wolf are decent AFs. The Claw is so-so and the Stiletto is one of the worst ceptors for solo use, great in gangs though. If anything I'd train T2 projectiles and Minmatar frig 5 for the Rifter and consider the Wolf/Jag as bonuses if you want a change of pace. |
NorthEasterly
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Posted - 2009.06.22 16:50:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dalacha Thanks for the advice, but even though I do enjoy the Vexor as my ratting ship of choice, I like PvP'ing in Frig sized ships. So even though I definatley think the Vexor and Thorax are great ships to PvP in, they are just not something I'd enjoy as much as using Frigs, PvP wise. (And in the end, all that matters is how much fun your having, right? =))
As long as you're having fun with your limited target selection, that is indeed what counts.
But if you ever want to expand said selection, a nano vexor is a great transition, as it handles like a plated AF. |
Spectre3353
Gallente The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.06.22 18:06:00 -
[25]
I see that no one answered the other half of your question here about interceptors:
Personally I would have to go and say that while the Claw/Stiletto are far from useless, there isn't a whole reason to worry about flying them if you can already get into a Taranis/Ares. Stiletto is maybe a slightly better tackler and is a unique interceptor thanks to the four mids but the Claw is a joke compared to a properly fit/flown Taranis. The lack of a third mid and it's inability to target out past 20KM are both pretty huge negatives.
So in other words:
- Best Close Range Combat Ceptor: Taranis - Best Long Range Combat Ceptor: Crow - Best Pure Tackling Ceptor: Stiletto
If you're just looking to solo around in a frig, the Rifter/Taranis/Ishkur are going to be tough to beat. The Rifter is incredibly cost efficient and the other two are just straight up incredibly effective. If you're going to train minmitar any further for solo PvP, do it for the Vagabond/Rapier. ----- The Python Cartel - My Pirate Blog |
Stuart Price
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.06.22 18:35:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Spectre3353 I see that no one answered the other half of your question here about interceptors:
Personally I would have to go and say that while the Claw/Stiletto are far from useless, there isn't a whole reason to worry about flying them if you can already get into a Taranis/Ares. Stiletto is maybe a slightly better tackler and is a unique interceptor thanks to the four mids but the Claw is a joke compared to a properly fit/flown Taranis. The lack of a third mid and it's inability to target out past 20KM are both pretty huge negatives.
So in other words:
- Best Close Range Combat Ceptor: Taranis - Best Long Range Combat Ceptor: Crow - Best Pure Tackling Ceptor: Stiletto
If you're just looking to solo around in a frig, the Rifter/Taranis/Ishkur are going to be tough to beat. The Rifter is incredibly cost efficient and the other two are just straight up incredibly effective. If you're going to train minmitar any further for solo PvP, do it for the Vagabond/Rapier.
Pretty much this, if you can already fly the Taranis and Ares then you don't need to be able to fly minny 'ceptors since the Claw is pretty sadface (and nowhere near as good as the 'ranis) and the Stiletto is only a little better than the Ares. The Ishkur is also one of the best three AF's, along with the Jag and Harpy, so you're well served there as well.
I'm going to update that 'ceptor list though:
- Best Close Range Combat Ceptor: Taranis - Best Long Range Combat Ceptor: Crow - Best Pure Tackling Ceptor: Stiletto - Best Ceptor, PERIOD: Crusader
Flown properly, there is no better ship for a dogfight than a pulse-sader and it can happily murder its way through most destroyers (including the much-vaunted arty-thrasher) and many cruisers. Fast, agile, high damage, incredible tracking, it has everything I look for in a combat 'ceptor. |
NorthEasterly
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Posted - 2009.06.23 01:45:00 -
[27]
Disagree on the crusader, based on my personal experience with them.
1) Max DPS on your typical 14km range pulsader is 140, or 160ish if overloading. 2) Cap is an issue in any long-kill, so if you don't fit a CPR you can't really kill cruisers, and if you do fit a CPR you reduce your DPS by about 20. 3) Crusader requires rigs to work 4) In the end, even a sader with 2x nano II's orbitting at 15km will be caught by an overloading ranis who manually pilots, and then melted.
That said, the sader is still a great combat cepter because it can use it's 24km point AND be fit for dogfighting at the same time, something a ranis can't do (railranis rofl, an easymode gimped pulsader).
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Xzar Fyrarr
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.06.23 06:10:00 -
[28]
I must say, I trained gallente frig lvl 5 just to fly the Ishkur and I have had the most fun solo pvp wise I had all year so far, after the expansion that is.
Been in a few engagements in it, of course I did not win any of them per say. HOWEVER. Out of all of the engagements, each and every one of them, should I have used my favorite ship, the Hurricane, I would have died each and everytime because I would not have been able to escape. I have escaped each and every fight I have been in, in the Ishkur, that I had no chance of winning, or reinforcements showed up/appeared on on board scanner. I def recommend the Ishkur. Although the Jaguar and Wolf/Rifter should not be overlooked either in my opinion.
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Jesslyn Daggererux
Gallente Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.06.26 15:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kane Starkiller Especially all those lol fit one's with afterburners. A cruiser will completly own one so you're left with attacking other frigates.
AB+small sig means your thorax will probably not touch me. im sorry, but unless your in 0.0, and even then if you know your target, a mwd on an AF is a lolfit to me. the game has changed, and its sad you fail to realize it. its less about speed now, and more about sig. of course if an AF orbits a cruiser with a MWD on it would die, by that point its sig is nearly twice that of a cruiser. no. just no. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.26 15:24:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 26/06/2009 15:25:52
Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux
Originally by: Kane Starkiller Especially all those lol fit one's with afterburners. A cruiser will completly own one so you're left with attacking other frigates.
AB+small sig means your thorax will probably not touch me. im sorry, but unless your in 0.0, and even then if you know your target, a mwd on an AF is a lolfit to me. the game has changed, and its sad you fail to realize it. its less about speed now, and more about sig. of course if an AF orbits a cruiser with a MWD on it would die, by that point its sig is nearly twice that of a cruiser. no. just no.
Hint: that Thorax is carrying ECM drones. Once you are jammed, your scram/web shut off, the Thorax gets its MWD back and burns away from you, transversal drops to zero, and you die in seconds.
Other cruisers aren't any better. The ones that lack drones/neuts/webs to kill you tend to have long-range guns, and with a MWD they're faster than you. Instead of jamming you and dropping transversal at close range, they'll just pin you at 20km with zero transversal and laugh as pulse lasers blow away your AF in about 15 seconds. |
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