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Echo Mande
29
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Posted - 2012.05.19 13:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:Stralow wrote:I think CCP will be handicaped a little bit with the new POS System. They cant start from scratch entirely because they have to convert the old pos's to the new ones during a patchday. Think that will ne huge to transform the modules and all its contents to a new system. not really, they can make a new pos and all the related stuff, put everything in game and run it for 6 months with the old pos systems and tell everyone: "hey you have 6 months to replace them, in 6 months the old ones will be offlined, removed from space and put in a npc station near you". To remove the old stuff from the game and people don't cry that they spend money and now have dead stuff in their hangers, during 6 months up to 1 year they can put NPCs buying the old pos and structures for a fair price... Alternately CCP can stop new jobs being installed in the obsolete arrays, change the BPOs to build something else and make the old arrays reprocessable. |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
17
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Posted - 2012.05.19 13:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
- Capital anchoring within the field - i have nightmares about bumped carriers.
- Personalized hangar folders in CHA's (simply 1 for each member visible only to him)
- Ability of CHA's to be targeted for contracts, that would transfer contracted items into your tab.
- CHA flag that allows personal tabs - if turned off prevents any items to be placed and\or moves all items into general hangar space after specific time and notification to the affected player.
- Modular design with ability to "dock" to the POS structures and access all modules at once no matter how far they are from you as long as they are connected to the POS complex. (I have creating ultracompact module systems that also work as fairly effective ship traps)
- T3 modification
- Preset fit change like people can in stations using a single button on the saved fit
- Use of BPO\PBC while they are in CHA with appropriate skill. |
Traidir
Hedion University Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2012.05.20 07:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Features:
- Improve Corporate Permissions and Roles to have "security levels" so that less trusted members can only do so much damage.
- Make newPoS pull items from a shared hangar area for all productions and research jobs. Flying around moving stuff is an unnecessary hassle.
- Make it possible for individuals with access permissions to install personal "lockers" for their ships and items.
- Make it possible to reconfigure Tech3 ship subsystems. It sounds like this requires newPoSes to be dockable, which is an added bonus.
- Make it possible to manipulate all PoS modules from anywhere within the force field. Flying around to control buildings which are being controlled remotely anyhow is silly as well being an unnecessary hassle.
- To make it easier to move a PoS to a new moon or to set up new posses just the way you want them: have a "save fitting" or, rather, a "Save Starbase Layout" button.
- Allow modules and turrets to be added/onlined/offlined via a queue. A person should not have to sit waiting for 30 minutes for guns to online when all the needed button clicks can be done in 1 minute.
Mechanics: One good way to implement modular design is remove the "powergrid" fitting requirement. Instead, each module would simply increase the rate of fuel consumption per hour; in this way, newPoSes could expand to nearly any size. CPU limits, then, could be increased via a modular upgrade system, which accepts increasing numbers of "Mainframe modules", which would be constructed from the advanced PI materials, just as PoS structures are now (thus creating an static ISK barrier to expansion via CPU and a dynamic isk barrier to expansion via increasing fuel costs). Each new hanger or assembly module would also increase overall common hanger space.
Modules should follow a progression, (e.g. SSAA -> MSAA -> LSAA -> CSAA) with each tier increasing the station's slots and capabilties. Production slots, then, could be consumed at different rates for different job types. For example, 3 medium sized ship assembly lines might be required to make a large ship. Thus, production would scale: a newPoS with a CSAA could either make 50 rifters all at once or 1 titan at a time depending on how many slots each job uses and their availability.
Since newPoSes will likely be dockable, consider removing the the notion of "force field". The guns still float outside the PoS, but if you're docked, you're protected by the newPoS's shield, not by a force field. This also enables newPoS services to be targetable. Having access to the overview and being able to see outside while docked (via windows or simply having your ship docked externally) would be critical in this scenario. (Alternatively, there could be a special PoS module which enables the PoS manager to activate a force field.)
One other notion: instead of using "hangar" space for ships, have modules like the SMA (and perhaps the assembly arrays) add "docking ports" to the newPoS. Thus a newPoS would have a scalable limit to how many (assembled) ships could be docked at once. |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
325
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Posted - 2012.05.20 11:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
Start making these MORE like stations - not in terms of mechanics, but feel.
Is anyone terribly concerned if we had Walking in Starbases? :)
I'd like to see corporate contracts be able to be carried out at a corporate starbase.. Automatic payment system for miners carried out at starbases also.
I put an openended contract up for corp only to buy their ore/minerals/salvage at X price. People put ore in, get money out. Simple.
Needs to be done at starbases so competition can't muscle in on your workers IN SYSTEM. If workers want to transport to a station of course - that's another story and a fine mechanic. CSM7 Skype Leak
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Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
143
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Posted - 2012.05.22 01:43:00 -
[35] - Quote
I would really like this proposed lego Player owned stations system scales to also replace Starbases. So that it takes a whlle adding onto a POS till it becomes a recognized out post and gains some of temporary invulnerbilites of it. So a Lego star base has to be captured before it can be disassembled.
I would love the opportunity to set up a POS in an enemy system and sell goods from it to my Blues in the middle of the fight. NEED a Pre Fitted ship to go back into battle just 20 mill and it is your to get into the fight with. We also offer a 6 week insurance plan if your ship get damaged beyond repair we will pay you X amount. The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
Giju
Abyssal Frontier Jovian Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.05.22 11:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
Couple of things that stand out for me:
T3 sub swaps.. I have never heard a valid/logical reason for this not already being in game.
Security/Personal storage for individuals.
All other stuff mentioned, docking etc are somewhat of a bonus. The above, for me, are much needed please.
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Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
499
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Posted - 2012.05.22 11:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
There are literally hundreds of pages written on both the old and the new forums about POSes. We're tired of writing the same things over and over again, only to be stored in a file and forgotten again. Even the stuff that's already been said a hundred times is enough for a full expansion dedicated to starbases. Why do you need even more input? |
Serina Tsukaya
Lonetrek Trade and Industries Test Friends Please Ignore
5
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Posted - 2012.05.23 10:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
Simplyfy anchoring and onlining of various weapons and components. Once the tower has been anchored, you should be allowed to dump modules into the pos structure itself and set all up like lego, putting that item connected to that, that there. etc, and then have the tower anchor all the modules one by one in sequence. Then allow poses to have various Onlining schemes to have it change from having it's harvesters online to it's guns online without a player having to sit there and wait to be allowed to press a button, basically a online/anchoring queue. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
965
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Posted - 2012.05.23 22:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
What I'd like to see is the eventual separation of what is now considered "station-exclusive" services like the market away from stations and integrated towards POSs and specialized capital ships, at a less efficient level. Echo Mande's idea of a far greater spectrum of starbases (ranging from tiny to XXL) in both size and scope, ranging from a basic forcefield that is just a place to warp your ship when hostiles arrive to a gigantic 'home' structure that is a finite, fuel consuming station. |
Serina Tsukaya
Lonetrek Trade and Industries Test Friends Please Ignore
9
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Posted - 2012.05.25 08:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:What I'd like to see is the eventual separation of what is now considered "station-exclusive" services like the market away from stations and integrated towards POSs and specialized capital ships, at a less efficient level. Echo Mande's idea of a far greater spectrum of starbases (ranging from tiny to XXL) in both size and scope, ranging from a basic forcefield that is just a place to warp your ship when hostiles arrive to a gigantic 'home' structure that is a finite, fuel consuming station.
Logistical nightmare Incomming. |
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Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
329
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Posted - 2012.05.25 10:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:There are literally hundreds of pages written on both the old and the new forums about POSes. We're tired of writing the same things over and over again, only to be stored in a file and forgotten again. Even the stuff that's already been said a hundred times is enough for a full expansion dedicated to starbases. Why do you need even more input?
Yep.
Just Yep.
CSM7 Skype Leak
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Selissa Shadoe
84
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Posted - 2012.05.25 18:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
POSes in general are basically an ISK sink unless you're really lucky to have access to a moon with the right minerals for either selling directly or use in a reaction that makes more than the fuel costs.
Looking over some older informational articles about POS setup it's mentioned that fuel prices for a small tower were on the range of 70K an hour, now it's more like 200K an hour. That completely blows the profit margins to be made as far as I'm concerned. Of course you can do PI and ice mining to make your own fuel, but that's not saving you money - it just means you might not fork out ISK directly for fuel blocks but you may end up just wanting to produce fuel for others to use.
Bottom line: Fuel blocks, while nice, are still way too expensive for the rate they're used, which means that people are not going to want to deal with the hassles of low-sec moon mining since it doesn't make economic sense.
You used to be able to turn off things to reduce fuel usage and make things more fuel (and thus ISK) efficient.
I would think that a reduction on the fuel-per hour usage would help make POSes economically viable once more. |
Selissa Shadoe
84
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Posted - 2012.05.25 18:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
0.4 is seriously underutilized too. What was the thinking behind this 'partitioning' of low-sec. "Oh, you can only mine in LESS than 0.4 space, but still have all the low-sec crap lowlifes shooting your crap in 0.4 .. enjoy!". . seriously... wtf? |
Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
151
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Posted - 2012.05.26 16:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
The original motivation for asking for modular star bases was, frankly, because POSes look like crap. The other functionality came down to the fact that I found the station UI to be much more accommodating than the travel to -> right click bonanza that is starbase operations. Only as time has gone on have I really come to appreciate how utterly inadequate the POS is for anything that isn't starbase warfare.
As a safety zone during a siege, a POS is the perfect tool; tough, safe, and mostly secure. As an industrial platform, they provide some of the functionality needed, but they were never truly capable of filling the role; they simply do not have the capacity to provide the robust UI experience that stations offer.
What a new starbase system needs to address is the need for a tough, relatively secure, relatively safe, robust, and intuitive user experience that serves as a player operated, but limited and vulnerable, surrogate for station services. Beyond the modular interconnecting system, there's numerous ways this could be pursued. The really tough question from an overarching design standpoint is, how safe should the contents of a replacement star base system be?
Using a starbase should be more like using a station; that much is obvious. How should a starbase's combat mechanics work? How should a starbase be destroyed? How durable should a starbase be? How much industrial capacity should a starbase be capable of utilizing? How should the ore refining mechanics accommodate station independent mining operations? |
Rythm
True Power Team Out of Sight.
18
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Posted - 2012.05.30 01:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:Rythm wrote:Quite unbalanced. You are basically asking for the outpost (20+ bil) for the price of the POS (1+bil).
If you've read Two Step's blog post that he linked, you should know that what he envisions is essentially doing away with POSes and Outposts as they currently are, and moving to a new mechanic where a tower owned by a single player is infinitely extensible up to the point where it becomes a Station itself. And that's why i call it unbalanced. Building stations require sov, as opposed to POSes. POS is supposed to be a military or industry outpost with a limited functionality compared to the station. Yes, there are some good suggestions like fine grained roles, but all the good ideas are overshadowed by the desire to get same features as space-holding alliances for free. |
Lord Zim
728
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Posted - 2012.05.30 06:58:00 -
[46] - Quote
Rythm wrote:Yes, there are some good suggestions like fine grained roles, but all the good ideas are overshadowed by the desire to get same features as space-holding alliances for free. ...which isn't much, let's be honest. |
Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems The Fourth District
45
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Posted - 2012.06.01 04:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
I am not sure I agree with pushing for personal POSs. POSs should be a benefit of forming a corporation.
I would like to see POSs being able to use any fuel block, possibly with an efficiency tied to using the "appropriate racial" fuel block. Either do this in the manufacturing of fuel blocks or at the starbase level. By way of example, a corporation operating in the south who wants to 1) use a Caldari/Gallente tower (for their bonuses) and 2) live off local resources should be able to do so, with some penalty (increased usage of local ice). Lai Dai Infinity Systems |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1461
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Posted - 2012.06.01 08:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
Rythm wrote: all the good ideas are overshadowed by the desire to get same features as space-holding alliances for free.
What if Sovereignty was to disappear, never to be heard of again? How would you "hold" space then? |
Lord Zim
747
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Posted - 2012.06.01 08:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Rythm wrote: all the good ideas are overshadowed by the desire to get same features as space-holding alliances for free. What if Sovereignty was to disappear, never to be heard of again? How would you "hold" space then? The same way it was held back before CCP made the sov system: through constant military force.
I'd love to see how that worked, actually. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1070
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 08:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
nah i'm pretty sure "cosmic consortium" would be the new nullsec power broker if ihubs/tcus were taken out of the equation |
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1678
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Posted - 2012.06.01 09:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
Quick update - This session happened yesterday and was led by CCP Greyscale. TLDR on this: by far one of the most interesting and promising sessions of the summit. CCP isn't going to do this halfway and some of the ideas were quite surprising and exciting. I'll be doing a blog detailing what I can while the summit minutes are being worked on sometime next week once I'm away from volcano land. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1461
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Posted - 2012.06.01 09:35:00 -
[52] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:nah i'm pretty sure "cosmic consortium" would be the new nullsec power broker if ihubs/tcus were taken out of the equation
CCP wouldn't have to remove infrastructure upgrades and TCUs just because Sov disappeared. But let's wait for these mythical minutes and see if there are any teasers about the surprise future of nullsec & POSes. |
Atum
Eclipse Industrials STR8NGE BREW
54
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Posted - 2012.06.01 11:42:00 -
[53] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:I'd love to see how that worked, actually. Incredibly poorly, actually. Ask any old-timer about outpost ping-pong. |
Lord Zim
747
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Posted - 2012.06.01 12:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Atum wrote:Lord Zim wrote:I'd love to see how that worked, actually. Incredibly poorly, actually. Ask any old-timer about outpost ping-pong. Well, yes, there's that. I wasn't around to experience that particular hilarity myself, but you're right, that is one of the things I've heard about pre-POS sov times.
One of the alternatives I keep thinking of as well is to bring back the old POS sov warfare, but with a few minor changes. 1) Anchor them to planets instead of moons. Makes more sense, and still makes some systems more strategically important than others, without repeating the 50+ moons grind of olde. 2) No guns. This should help avoid or curb the self-reinforcing which was done repeatedly with POSes. 3) Bring back the manual timers. Opens up for human fuckups and kiting and counter-kiting, as opposed to today's "set a timer once and forget about it" tactics.. 4) It'd bring back the good old tug of war, which I'd say was better than today's flowchart-requiring sov system which basically means that you have to grind your way through all timers, and then you can move on to the next one. |
Naj Panora
Ton Of Bricks
13
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Posted - 2012.06.04 15:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
CHA's need to be set individually. What I mean by this is that PoS managers need to be able to go into a settings menu for each CHA and set who can use what tabs individually. I think this would bring a higher level of security to corps who have to live in them.
This idea could also extend to Maintenance arrays. |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
111
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Posted - 2012.06.04 19:34:00 -
[56] - Quote
Selissa Shadoe wrote:POSes in general are basically an ISK sink unless you're really lucky to have access to a moon with the right minerals for either selling directly or use in a reaction that makes more than the fuel costs.
Looking over some older informational articles about POS setup it's mentioned that fuel prices for a small tower were on the range of 70K an hour, now it's more like 200K an hour. That completely blows the profit margins to be made as far as I'm concerned. Of course you can do PI and ice mining to make your own fuel, but that's not saving you money - it just means you might not fork out ISK directly for fuel blocks but you may end up just wanting to produce fuel for others to use.
Bottom line: Fuel blocks, while nice, are still way too expensive for the rate they're used, which means that people are not going to want to deal with the hassles of low-sec moon mining since it doesn't make economic sense.
You used to be able to turn off things to reduce fuel usage and make things more fuel (and thus ISK) efficient.
I would think that a reduction on the fuel-per hour usage would help make POSes economically viable once more.
Alternatively, make a 2nd version of Fuel block that doesn't consume Ice, but only PI goods. This version would consume WAY more PI resources of a greater variety than the ice version to account for not needing ice products. This would ensure POS fuel remains available at a somewhat consistent price and balance out the supply between Ice and PI.
I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler. |
Eidric
Shadows of HyperSpace Wormholes Holders
32
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Posted - 2012.06.04 20:15:00 -
[57] - Quote
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Alternatively, make a 2nd version of Fuel block that doesn't consume Ice, but only PI goods. This version would consume WAY more PI resources of a greater variety than the ice version to account for not needing ice products. This would ensure POS fuel remains available at a somewhat consistent price and balance out the supply between Ice and PI.
I dont think it would be a good idea since it will allow WH POSes to exist w/o empire ice. Something they have been specifically made for |
Flamespar
Woof Club
375
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 23:09:00 -
[58] - Quote
This is kinda exciting. If we get the whole modular starbase plus Incarna interiors I will declare CSM the winners of the internet. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1067
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 06:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
I made a suggestion about very customization and scalable POS's a couple years ago to replace both the current POS and the stations in null. I am having a hard time digging it up on evesearch, but I promise it was there. Sadly of course the thread was trolled into oblivion.
Maybe you guys will have better luck presenting the idea of a scalable POS that will not be judged on the author alone ehh?
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Lord Helghast
Intergalactic Syndicate Nulli Secunda
98
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Posted - 2012.06.08 04:51:00 -
[60] - Quote
1. Modular Pos's is this where we're going?
2. Will we see this start to come in winter?
3. Are they going with the massive threadnaught of awesome ideas?
4. What happened to the nomadic pos's?
5. Any chance we'll see something along the line of being able to take a Pos, with shield range extenders, and lots of mods, that it eventually has so much **** on it to service an entire corp or 2, that it shows up on peoples overviews because its sig radius got so big....
6. Will we finally see with this the advent of being able to develop public service pos's for say invention/copying etc...?
I mean if i build a huge massive pos thats nearly the size of a station, and can have out of shield docking ports for people to approach like Customs office's sticking out from the main structure, wher epeople can pickup BPC's or run invention etc... that would just be epic an entirely new enterprise for corps/alliances to offer each other and the public. |
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