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UMEE
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Posted - 2009.02.21 20:59:00 -
[61]
Edited by: UMEE on 21/02/2009 21:01:34 um you could take away a mid slot or two, and just have it nullify LESS ships. i dont mind it having the range because 2-3 inties can drop it fast, but it needs to jam less ships.
the falcon IS imbalanced because it makes other recons inferior. yes they all have a different purpose, but comparing how badly they can mess up a gang of ships, the falcon is way on top.
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K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2009.02.21 20:59:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Gram Hellfire Edited by: Gram Hellfire on 20/02/2009 02:26:13 ohnoes! crap fittings don't work on bigger ships!
Furthermore, already is a legitimate word!
Not my ship, but 2 sensor damps with range scripts can't even bring a single sensor boosted BS to under 30 km.... pvp more or try EFT at the least before spewing crap.
A curse can tracking disrupt and neut a BS to hell.
A falcon can perma jam a BS to hell.
A rapier can web a BS to REALLY slow speeds.
But a fully bonused arazu with two t2 damps with range scripts can barely reduce the targeting range below their scram range? How is that right?
a curse is not a force recon, the pilgrim is. a pilgrim cant nuet a battleship to hell, it can hurt some mission runners pretty weel though :D if you get in strife in a pilgrim you screwed....
arazu fights over 30km!? what you complaining about?
do you see any falcons getting any success with TWO JAMMERS!?
have you seen a rapier solo a battleship recently?
your inability to THINK doesnt make an arazu a bad ship...
i can fly a falcon and a pilgrim and well im very tempted in an arazu aswell.
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welsh wizard
0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.21 21:04:00 -
[63]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 21/02/2009 21:04:19
Originally by: UMEE um you could take away a mid slot or two, and just have it nullify LESS ships. i dont mind it having the range because 2-3 inties can drop it fast, but it needs to jam less ships.
What other role do you propose for it to do if you reduce its ewar effectiveness to that of the amarr & gallente recons? I bet you haven't even thought of one have you?
Tell you what, answer this, do you think a Falcon (a Caldari ship with 5 mid slots following your proposal) having a chance based opportunity to jam 1 or 2 ships while offering no other use is balanced? If you do, then, well... You could, perhaps suggest moving those 1 or 2 mid slots to the low slots so it can fit a tank couldn't you? --------------- RIP Crazy Horse |
UMEE
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Posted - 2009.02.21 21:21:00 -
[64]
Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 21/02/2009 21:08:35
Originally by: UMEE um you could take away a mid slot or two, and just have it nullify LESS ships. i dont mind it having the range because 2-3 inties can drop it fast, but it needs to jam less ships.
Tell you what, answer this, do you think a Falcon (a Caldari ship with 5 mid slots following your proposal) having a chance based opportunity to jam 1 or 2 ships while offering absolutely no other use is balanced? If you do, then, well...
yes, this would be perfect! finally someone gets it.
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welsh wizard
0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.21 21:29:00 -
[65]
lol --------------- RIP Crazy Horse |
echohead
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Posted - 2009.02.21 22:17:00 -
[66]
lol, What a silly thread! I think the 'zu works just fine.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.02.21 22:19:00 -
[67]
Originally by: UMEE
Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 21/02/2009 21:08:35
Originally by: UMEE um you could take away a mid slot or two, and just have it nullify LESS ships. i dont mind it having the range because 2-3 inties can drop it fast, but it needs to jam less ships.
Tell you what, answer this, do you think a Falcon (a Caldari ship with 5 mid slots following your proposal) having a chance based opportunity to jam 1 or 2 ships while offering absolutely no other use is balanced? If you do, then, well...
yes, this would be perfect! finally someone gets it.
For the octillionth time: if you're going to reduce the Falcon to the same EW capability of the other force recons then you need to propose a [secondary EW + combat capability] for it to match that of the other force recons.
Throw down.
PS Despite uncounted months of mendacious, illogical falcon whines, there is no hint of a falcon change on SiSi. Is this because the devs own Falcon BPOs, do you think...?
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.02.21 22:21:00 -
[68]
Originally by: UMEE
Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 21/02/2009 21:08:35
Originally by: UMEE um you could take away a mid slot or two, and just have it nullify LESS ships. i dont mind it having the range because 2-3 inties can drop it fast, but it needs to jam less ships.
Tell you what, answer this, do you think a Falcon (a Caldari ship with 5 mid slots following your proposal) having a chance based opportunity to jam 1 or 2 ships while offering absolutely no other use is balanced? If you do, then, well...
yes, this would be perfect! finally someone gets it.
eg: Dominix get about the same DPS with turrets as a Raven gets with cruise. Therefore remove the utterly unfair and imbalanced bloated drone bay, bonus and bandwidth!!!
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daisy dook
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Posted - 2009.02.21 22:50:00 -
[69]
Originally by: UMEE Edited by: UMEE on 21/02/2009 21:01:34 um you could take away a mid slot or two, and just have it nullify LESS ships. i dont mind it having the range because 2-3 inties can drop it fast, but it needs to jam less ships.
the falcon IS imbalanced because it makes other recons inferior. yes they all have a different purpose, but comparing how badly they can mess up a gang of ships, the falcon is way on top.
If it wasn't for the hardcoding of racial jammers then I could go with this - as it stands I have to have 4 slots devoted to ECM to stand a chance of jamming any single ship.
Make jammers multispec with scripts to change them to racials and I would happily fit less jammers (strangely enough I might also be more effective).
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.02.22 01:45:00 -
[70]
Give them more of a bonus to damps. They they will be sexy again.
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Lil Mule
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Posted - 2009.02.22 02:59:00 -
[71]
Please.
I fly a pilgrim and it is a very very sad excuse for a T2 ship. I dont think it could even nuet a Kestrel ffs, let alone a battleship
The Arazu, the Rapier, the Falcon are all extremely effective ships compared to the lowly pilgrim
If there is a ship in this game that needs a fix, its the Pilgrim, not the Arazu. -----------------------------------------------
People enjoy flying Amarr for the same reason they like being tied up in leather, whipped and called names
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Schnitzar
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Posted - 2009.02.22 04:47:00 -
[72]
"Lachesis+Curse+Huginn+[Falcon if you suck too much]+ long range DPS ships (Cerbs, Ishtars, Zealots). There you go, perfect immunity. Target gets webbed, scrammed, neuted, TD and damped from 40km and pounded from 100. Nerf gangs, eh?"
For some reason I cant quote this properly, anyway....
That kind of fleet seems nice, but really you're banking on fighting 5 vs 1, you'll just win on sheer numbers. If you were fighting equal numbers then 5 plain old battlecruisers would probably own your fleet (falcon is the only one that would win it for you). I think the only advantage is that you can escape a losing battle more easily.
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K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2009.02.22 08:13:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Lil Mule Please.
I fly a pilgrim and it is a very very sad excuse for a T2 ship. I dont think it could even nuet a Kestrel ffs, let alone a battleship
The Arazu, the Rapier, the Falcon are all extremely effective ships compared to the lowly pilgrim
If there is a ship in this game that needs a fix, its the Pilgrim, not the Arazu.
yes absolutely the pilgrim sucks real bad - boost pilgrims already.
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Diomidis
Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.22 09:25:00 -
[74]
Few of my best wingmen scout or FC in Arazus, and post-QR-Patch some of them forgot their Rapiers in-favor of that ship...in fact the Rapier cannot shine without Gallente Recon support anymore so I would consider it their support
And yes, despite it's solo niche, the Pilgrim is a much more problematic gang-ship than any of the above - never was I asked to bring a pilgrim in my whole PvP life, given I had anything else handy.
All other cloaking recons beat it for scouting or overall ewar performance in a gang or both...for neuting everybody preferes a Curse, for TDing even an arbitrator or a Sentinel can match it... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
Gabriel Virtus
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.24 20:55:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 24/02/2009 20:58:54 The problem with the gallente recons is that they are both terrible. We are not comparing cloaky recons, or noncoaky recons, we are comparing the recon class across races. In this category, the gallente recons are just terrible. I think it is because CCP decided to hate gallente and their freedom loving for going on a year and a half now. I think its because CCP hates freedom and democracy.
But in all seriousness, every other race has at least one of the recons that are very decent and viable ships. No one will argue that the pilgrim is not complete fail, but amarr have the curse, arguably the best pvp recon, if not pvp cruser in the game. Minmatar have the rapier/huggin, and caldari have the failcon. All of these recons serve completely legit roles and they serve them well.
When the specialized sensor dampening ships cannot dampen 1 t1 battleship to a range that they can tackle them, the specialized ship is complete fail. If you happen to run into a person that figures out they can unload thier scan res script from their t1 sensor booster, the arazu/lechesis will fail even more. The problem is that they do not have enough mids to take advantage of their specialized ability. They are supposed to be long range tacklers and sensor dampeners, but only have the mids to complete one of these tasks. While the amarr, minmatar, and optimally the caldari can remove ships damage comptletely from the battlefied, the gallente just fail. The sensor dampeners are not long range enough to warrant only the use of the dampeners.
CCP stop hating on gallente, give 100mbps drone bandwidth to the myrmidon, switch the covert ops back the the maulus hull, give the EOS a decent dronebandwidth. After the last 4 patches have continuously nerfed gallente, it is getting a bit old. I bet next patch they will get rid of the dominix completely from the game to make gallente worthless to fly.
-GV
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Flashetta
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Posted - 2009.02.24 21:26:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus CCP stop hating on gallente, give 100mbps drone bandwidth to the myrmidon, switch the covert ops back the the maulus hull, give the EOS a decent dronebandwidth. After the last 4 patches have continuously nerfed gallente, it is getting a bit old. I bet next patch they will get rid of the dominix completely from the game to make gallente worthless to fly.
QFT.
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Flashetta
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Posted - 2009.02.24 21:27:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Flashetta
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus CCP stop hating on gallente, give 100mbps drone bandwidth to the myrmidon, switch the covert ops back the the maulus hull, give the EOS a decent dronebandwidth. After the last 4 patches have continuously nerfed gallente, it is getting a bit old. I bet next patch they will get rid of the dominix completely from the game to make gallente worthless to fly.
QFT.
Except for the maulus hull thing, i dunno what that's about.. must have been before my time :\
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.02.24 21:46:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 24/02/2009 21:47:46
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Lengthy Whine
You're flat out wrong. The only problem with the gallente recons are sensor damps, and no one is forcing you to use damps.
Both the Arazu and the Lachesis have an extra mid over their amarr counter parts. The problem with the lachesis and the arazu are they can't keep themselves safe from a single BS while using only 2 damps. So don't, use TDs.
And since 2x TD are better than 1 bonused TD and 3x TD are basically equal to 2x bonused TDs, the gallente recons are basically better TD platforms than the amarr recons.
And for gang utility bonused scrams/disruptors are a hell of a lot more useful than the neut bonuses on the amarr ships.
So bring gallente recons with TDs, the slot layout more than makes up for the nerfed damps.
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus But Endless, what about missile ships!111!!
Well you're still not any worse off than the curse or pilgrim and you could always try looking at those damps again..
**Pro Tip** The curse and the pilgrim are awful ships
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Flashetta
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Posted - 2009.02.24 22:00:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
...some sorta elitest jargin...
Lol, Broke is broke dude. Just becuase one ship is "more broke" than another, doesn't mean that the latter isn't indeed.. (..wait for it..) .."broken".
Pro Tip (always wanted to say that): ".."'s are cool.
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.02.24 22:07:00 -
[80]
Lachesis is epically awesome this patch.
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Lisento Slaven
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2009.02.24 22:39:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Tibilo The problem the gallente recons suffer from is the existence of other ships that do what they do but better.
If your going to reduce enemies targeting range with damps ........
Using damps to reduce (*INCREASE*) lock time on its own is not that useful.......
If your relying on the recons in your gang for dps then your probably doing it wrong........
You forgot to mention that they are also very effective at turning off MWD's at very long ranges now. Excellent for gate camps.
Does anyone know if the effect is it ends the cycle of a MWD or is it INSTANT deactivation? Like...does the MWD still go through its cycle or is the cycle "interrupted" and your speed goes down immediately when hit with a scram?
I admit...I've never had anyone use one on me even though 90% of my fits still use a MWD. ---
Put in space whales!
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.02.24 22:41:00 -
[82]
It shuts the MWD instantly, the cycle does not finish.
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Tibilo
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Posted - 2009.02.25 00:56:00 -
[83]
I guess the main point is if you want some ewar to prevent enemy ships from locking you, your almost always better off with bonused ecm.
Gallente recons with maximum skills can shut off a mwd from up to 18km with named/T2 scramblers. However its a waste to take a recon just for this effect when any interceptor or close range ship can apply it in addition to their other benefits. |
Tefkros
The Dead Pod Society Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.25 06:17:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Schnitzar "Lachesis+Curse+Huginn+[Falcon if you suck too much]+ long range DPS ships (Cerbs, Ishtars, Zealots). There you go, perfect immunity. Target gets webbed, scrammed, neuted, TD and damped from 40km and pounded from 100. Nerf gangs, eh?"
For some reason I cant quote this properly, anyway....
That kind of fleet seems nice, but really you're banking on fighting 5 vs 1, you'll just win on sheer numbers. If you were fighting equal numbers then 5 plain old battlecruisers would probably own your fleet (falcon is the only one that would win it for you). I think the only advantage is that you can escape a losing battle more easily.
Actually we fought and won 2 v 5 on more than one occasion (eg Huginn+Curse vs. Drake, Damnation, Armageddon, Blackbird and smth else I dont recall, a gatecamp with BS and logistics on another occasion had a similar fate) and a 2 v 10 (Huginn+Curse vs 4x Megathrons, Deimos, Lachesis, Enyo, Tristan and something else). What didnt die, ran.
If the lowly Huginn/Curse duo can pull this off, scale this up with the safety margin a Lachesis would provide. A 5 man BC gang trying to close the 40km gap with a Curse, Lachesis and Huginn against them is going to have serious issues. Its all about knowing your ships. You can even leave the Falcon and the HAC out of gang, and still have the field.
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Wideen
Warped Mining Strip Mining Club
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Posted - 2009.02.25 11:28:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton tackling a battleship with near invulnerability isn't any good?
Well yeah it's great that you are invulnerable to that one BS while focusing all three of your damps on it. Not so great if that BS has friends since you have to operate within 40-45km.
Rapier and Falcon both operate from farther away and can disable multiple ships at the same time. Arazu? Only one. Pilgrim operates much closer, but it can actually fit a decent tank and can still negate multiple opponents. Arazu? Still only one and no tank to speak of.
Arazu sucks for anything other than ganking a solo victim with multiple ships. Not a terribly fantastic role there. It really needs it's damps boosted so it can negate multiple opponents like it used to be able to.
tbh you don't have time to discuss petty ship fittings go publish another IRS series instead plssss ________________________________________ "I robbed a goon and I liked it" - Suas |
Suitonia
Gallente interimo End of The Line.
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Posted - 2009.02.25 11:48:00 -
[86]
The design of the Arazu/Lachesis is fine, it's just that sensors dampeners are a pile of **** at the moment.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.02.25 11:50:00 -
[87]
Damps aren't that useful. Long-range MWD scrambling, however, is pretty entertaining. If there's a problem, it's more to do with damps on Keres/Arazu/Lach, than with the ships as a whole.
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Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity Fluidic Anti-Gravity
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Posted - 2009.02.25 13:11:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Morel Nova on 25/02/2009 13:14:02
Originally by: Lil Mule Please.
I fly a pilgrim and it is a very very sad excuse for a T2 ship. I dont think it could even nuet a Kestrel ffs, let alone a battleship
Is this sarcasm or something? the pilgrim is fantastic to be honest. The only thing I could wish for was a little more cpu/grid so you dont have to have recon 5 or use faction items to get a nice fit (please, the price of medium unstables are killing my wallet), but a bunch of other ships have this problem too.
EDIT: to stay on topic I personally find damps pretty useless except to screw with smaller ships and fit mine with shield extenders + scram/disruptor now instead. The awesomeness of the long range scram makes up for the ****ty damps, and if any recon pilots should be *****ing it should be the rapier guys. Dual webbed inties still outrun the rapier which is very sad. Put in space whales!
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