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Yerotun
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Posted - 2009.02.11 05:39:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Armoured C
Originally by: Rpeg
Originally by: Rpeg
But wouldn't you just shoot me as soon as I enter through a gate? I mean, you may find that fun but it ends up being a big waste of my time.
that the point you get a rush trying to excapse a small camp with maybe 2 ships or so ,
an it only cheap , just use it to explore low sec you see deeper low sec isnt bad atall and you might be surprised to see some industrial entity out there *nudge nudge*
I've been slowly introducing myself to low-sec and I agree with you somewhat but when a gang of ships take me out knowing full well I can't put up a fight against all 3/4/5 of them... the entire affair become annoying. I'm not hating on low-sec but when i lose a few ships trying to introduce myself to it, I then have to turn around and try to make money again to buy new ****. it's a tedious cycle. At this rate, I got nothing to benefit from really low-sec (0.4 I can handle).
keep with frigates , and try another low sec gate perhaps ?
is this your main charater as i will mail it in game of a dead end low sec system that i started in once i remember the name ^_^
i lived there and a small community started with it inhabitants to ensure the low sec stays pirate free
havnt been there in years but you could go check it out once i remember it
Out in Bleak Maybe? I seem to remember you in that area years ago...man that place used to be off the hook. |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.11 05:43:00 -
[122]
I'm self-banning myself from the forum until Friday.
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Aeo IV
Amarr Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2009.02.11 06:11:00 -
[123]
The problem isn't the Carebear's not taking enough risk, it's the pirates.
In low sec, the only negative part of killing someone, or podkilling, is that you loose a little number, which you can easily earn back through killing rats, which, btw, give you money while you're at it.
Solution: Once sec is lost via a pod killing, or 10 ship kills in a week, it cannot be earned back for a month. Further more, -5.0 sec players will not receive any bounties they would normally get from ratting. Finally, if a player stays at -9.0 or lower for a time greater then month 1 week, CONCORD will send a Concord Bounty hunter (a powerful NPC) after you, and when they gank your ship you shall loose 1 level of SP in the second highest skill related to the ship you are flying at the time of the ganking. If no skill should be present, such as when flying a shuttle, your access to High sec will be revoked for a week, and all your transactions will have a 20% surcharge.
How's that for risk?
But foolishness aside, Low sec is a poorly implemented idea, and a lot of what goes on in low sec is something of an exploitation of the game mechanics, namely that sec status really don't mean anything, it doesn't really hinder any sort of movements of players at all, and it doesn't even really inconvenience them. All low sec should mean is that you won't automatically lose your ship if you attack someone, it shouldn't mean that the risk vs. reward assessment that goes into high sec pvp (ether war decs or suicide ganks) should be gone. But it is, and that's the downfall of low sec. |
Yerotun
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Posted - 2009.02.11 06:36:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Aeo IV The problem isn't the Carebear's not taking enough risk, it's the pirates.
In low sec, the only negative part of killing someone, or podkilling, is that you loose a little number, which you can easily earn back through killing rats, which, btw, give you money while you're at it.
Solution: Once sec is lost via a pod killing, or 10 ship kills in a week, it cannot be earned back for a month. Further more, -5.0 sec players will not receive any bounties they would normally get from ratting. Finally, if a player stays at -9.0 or lower for a time greater then month 1 week, CONCORD will send a Concord Bounty hunter (a powerful NPC) after you, and when they gank your ship you shall loose 1 level of SP in the second highest skill related to the ship you are flying at the time of the ganking. If no skill should be present, such as when flying a shuttle, your access to High sec will be revoked for a week, and all your transactions will have a 20% surcharge.
How's that for risk?
But foolishness aside, Low sec is a poorly implemented idea, and a lot of what goes on in low sec is something of an exploitation of the game mechanics, namely that sec status really don't mean anything, it doesn't really hinder any sort of movements of players at all, and it doesn't even really inconvenience them. All low sec should mean is that you won't automatically lose your ship if you attack someone, it shouldn't mean that the risk vs. reward assessment that goes into high sec pvp (ether war decs or suicide ganks) should be gone. But it is, and that's the downfall of low sec.
You know nothing young one....Sec status never has to go back up. So imposing so strange time limit on stuff, really isn't going to affect much.
Really, i don't think gate camps are broke, I think it is a malfunction in the pod pilots data processing center.. |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar M3T4LH34DZ
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Posted - 2009.02.11 07:15:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Taylor timenenzi
Put some kind of loiter mechanic in so the evil people cant just sit and camp the entrances so newbs can feel safer coming in. A noob is still going to get caught and thats who you guys love to hunt.
I was thinking the exact same thing, the idea that gangs of repeat offending "bandits" would be allowed to loiter around gates is just wholly unrealistic IMHO, it may be lowsec, but it is not NOsec and the security there is exists at the gates and could be made to move along those who appear to loiter with intent.
the mechanics to achieve this is simple....two or more pilots of the same corp or alliance hanging around a lowsec gate for more than 2 minutes get beaten to s*** by the sentry guns. Exceptions can be made for those involved in concord sanctioned or factional wars so the tactic can still be used in that context as it obviously still can be used in nullsec.
I see gatecamps as the single biggest factor keeping hisec pilots out of lowsec and an entirely absurd and unrealistic factor at that. If hisec pilots could at least get thru the "front door" and see the rest of lowsec space, they may realise that (camps excluded) it is not as bad as they imagine.
I really don't see a significant majority of players (save a few in Rancer) missing this tactic as it is pretty worthless , so I say get the nerfbat out and beat lowsec camps to death with it
well mannered a**h*** |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.11 07:27:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 11/02/2009 07:28:34 No incentive to go to 0.0/lowsec = no go to 0.0/lowsec.
Simple as that.
There's a reason to go through a wormhole. There's risk and reward.
Going to lowsec is like someone saying "hey, here's some money, but i MIGHT shoot you."
PVP killboards DON'T interest everyone(unless they make one killboard that's public and automatic), fighting for some arbitrary system doesn't interest everyone and if you don't want to join in the ranks of "we-kill-all 3000" megacorp, you're not staying in 0.0.
So, no reason for all.
What the system needs is reason.
You may think there's reason enough to fight in those 0.0 skirmishes, but the rest of the galaxy doesn't give a hoot.
Everyone's always saying "join a corp and go PVP! It's fun!", but honestly, i don't want to fight for YOUR cause. |
Souvera Corvus
Gallente SPORADIC MOVEMENT FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.02.11 07:41:00 -
[127]
The people who claim that low-sec is broken don't live there.
Its working as intended and its meant to be difficult. Rewards are there if you spend long enough there to weather the intial losses as you work out how to survive.
Better roids would help the population a little as would better rats (I'd probably go better rats over better roids tbh). Other than that leave everything as it is.
What harmed low-sec population more than anything else were the changes to scanning out mission runners. Making it easier wasn't the best idea if thinking purely of low-sec population as an issue.
Low-sec demands teamplay and so if you're going to live there you have to be a corporation in more than name.
As for the assertion that there are huge camps on every gate, I'd have to say that's an uninformed exaggeration. Its surprisingly easy to move around low-sec most of the time.
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Junko Togawa
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Posted - 2009.02.11 07:47:00 -
[128]
Hey, cheer up, all you losec PvP'er types! Soon there'll be 2500 more systems full of...oh, wait. That's wormhole space, not gatecamp space. Sowwies, mai bad. |
Hov Dekka
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.11 08:07:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Hov Dekka on 11/02/2009 08:08:38 Make people train skills faster in low sec/0.0, using illegal neural stimulators or something...
Enter empire again, and the effect goes away.
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Navtiqes
Englebarna
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Posted - 2009.02.11 08:10:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Navtiqes on 11/02/2009 08:09:49 I'd suggest converting a large share of the existing High Sec systems to Low.
That should fix the problem. They'd end up going Low by necessity then. |
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.02.11 08:14:00 -
[131]
There are actually a couple of different variables at work here (I'm simplifying..)
First, risk averse players are not coming to low-sec for any reason. They do not wish to engage in PvP and so won't. CCP seems OK with this.
Secondly, as the poster above me pointed out, there is (at this time) nothing to do in Low-sec (other than PvP) that cannot be better done in Hi-sec or 0.0. He attempted to show something (one thing of many) that might be done to increase the attraction of Low-sec. Increased training via illegal drugs, lower taxes/better refining - something...
If PvP is the attraction, then the population won't change. There has to be something that cannot be done better elsewhere, even with the attendant increased risk. If there is nothing in low-sec that cannot be done better/cheaper and at less risk in low-sec vrs. Hi-sec/0.0 space, the population will not change.
AK
Honor is that which you do when no one else is looking.
Ethics, Honor and Respect. Without the first two, you can't buy the last one...
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.11 08:18:00 -
[132]
Here's an idea, that people will shut down 'cause it comes from WoW
Pilot bound ships that can be boarded in lowsec/0.0.
You have to hunt down rats to find co-ordinates. You then have to fight those rats at their "construction yard". Due to the high-tech and complexity of the ship, it will "bind" itself into the first pilot that enters it and will only work with THAT POD.
As an example, there's your 0.0/lowsec incentive.
Content that can only be obtained there and can't be bought.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Tobin Arkon
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:18:00 -
[133]
The Problem isn't that Carebears don't want to head to Nullsec, it's that they don't feel welcome there. Alliances need to start treating their territory as a country does and use trade and the willing Carebear labor to their advantage. Instead of Sitting on the front porch with their shotgun in hand shouting "GET OFF'A MY LAND YA DAMN YANKEE!" Let them mine the good stuff and then buy it from them! You get the minerals, you get cheap labor, and you get more people in Nullsec. All the Alliances have to do is play Concord a few times to keep the pie-rats at bay and that would make things better.
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teoliit
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:28:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
There's a reason to go through a wormhole. There's risk and reward.
Going to lowsec is like someone saying "hey, here's some money, but i MIGHT shoot you."
So, no reason for all.
What the system needs is reason.
You may think there's reason enough to fight in those 0.0 skirmishes, but the rest of the galaxy doesn't give a hoot.
Everyone's always saying "join a corp and go PVP! It's fun!", but honestly, i don't want to fight for YOUR cause.
The challenge is the reason What's the reason to play the game and stay in highsec? A monkey could do that, or a script. Even worse: they do. That's how meaningful highsec is... |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:31:00 -
[135]
Originally by: teoliit The challenge is the reason What's the reason to play the game and stay in highsec? A monkey could do that, or a script. Even worse: they do. That's how meaningful highsec is...
Yeah and a monkey could sit at a camp and press fire when someone comes through, or warp when told and shoot at "primary", but to make a difference(point in case: Chribba), you need something more then just a monkey pressing buttons. |
Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:48:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 11/02/2009 09:51:29
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 11/02/2009 07:28:34 No incentive to go to 0.0/lowsec = no go to 0.0/lowsec.
Simple as that.
There's a reason to go through a wormhole. There's risk and reward.
Going to lowsec is like someone saying "hey, here's some money, but i MIGHT shoot you."
PVP killboards DON'T interest everyone(unless they make one killboard that's public and automatic), fighting for some arbitrary system doesn't interest everyone and if you don't want to join in the ranks of "we-kill-all 3000" megacorp, you're not staying in 0.0.
So, no reason for all.
What the system needs is reason.
You may think there's reason enough to fight in those 0.0 skirmishes, but the rest of the galaxy doesn't give a hoot.
Everyone's always saying "join a corp and go PVP! It's fun!", but honestly, i don't want to fight for YOUR cause.
Sheriff Jones is, as usual, right on target. The problem with lowsec isn't that it doesn't work the way it's intended, but rather that from a pure PvE perspective there's absolutely nothing in lowsec that you can't get in 0.0. People willing to take the risk by and large skip over lowsec entirely and move out to 0.0, and have for years.
The actual lowsec mechanics are fine. I fly alone in lowsec - sure it's a pain in the ass at times but I know what I'm doing and I'm pretty successful at it. But I fly in FW and I like one-manning it up when I'm missioning, mission running, or doing exploration (even mining!) and I'm not really interested in joining a 0.0 corp and/or renting space, so lowsec is a good place for me.
The hardcore carebears who can't stomach any kind of ship loss (quite possibly because the only ships they know how to fly are billion+ ISK mission fits) will never move out of highsec - they'll quit first. I don't see the need to nerf those guys until they emorageEvEisagankersgamequit, they don't really bother anyone sitting in highsec and I don't want see to veld/ship/module prices go even higher if everyone stops mining or getting easy mission loot
EDIT: Also people saying sec status is easy to gain back need to actually try to do it sometime. It took me 4 days to go from -3.6 to -1.9. Granted I don't have access to easily farmable 0.0 BS rats and had to do it by shooting lv. 4 mission rats in my Ishkur, but this topic isn't about nullsec, it's about lowsec. I continue to believe lowsec itself is just fine. The fact that you go from happy carefree carebear land to YARR HERE BE DRAGONS KEEP YER WITS ABOUT YE in the 5 seconds it takes to go through a gate is what's broken.
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:56:00 -
[137]
Moar rewards for low sec. You know, the whole cheesy line from Field of Dreams...
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:15:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Sun Clausewitz those fixes fail... the truth is, there is no way to increase lowsec activity by carebears without changing what low sec is.
100% carebears will not risk ever, so they are usless as an example. It's the border line ones, which I suggest there are more or them than pure bears, that need something.
Change the way travel works, make it much less "blind" mechanic and traffic will go up. Gate camps in eve, as it is now, are not much different that spawn campers in FPS games.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:27:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 11/02/2009 10:27:38 I have a travel fix too, if people are interested:
Keep gate travel.
Add a "warp travel" that will land you at a random location to a system, but will take longer.
Say, a minute for example?
Warp travel would be "old school" travel between systems, like all those cool ships in sci-fi shows that "don't have warp drives".
This wouldn't be a 100% safe travel method, but it would allow people to take alternate routes.
Also if you want to stop many many pirate tears, add a signal on probes that hunts down "warp signatures" incoming to system. |
Resivan
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:41:00 -
[140]
No solution based on varying monetary rewards will ever draw people out of high sec for the simple reason that this is an MMO and an MMO's economy runs less on money than on fun. If the game isn't fun, people aren't going to play it. Since CCP is a business and the people running it depend on it for their food and beer money, they have to make the game fun for as many people as they can.
Some people stay in high sec because playing the game there is fun for them and the risks of low and null sec would make it less fun. Some people keep alts in high sec to generate the resources they need to have fun in low and null sec. If they had to make a living without high sec, they'd have less fun.
To draw people out of high sec, you need to make it more fun for them to be in low or null sec. You could probably increase the utilization of low sec by increasing the actual security presence there. Maybe faction navy units respond instead of Concord and less of them as the sec level decreases. That would make the game less fun for the pirates who operate there though.
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Urho Kaleva
Caldari Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:49:00 -
[141]
Reason for not going to 0.0 = gatecamps. Reason for this: Gatecamps are predictable, thus boring -> for both sides.
Good game should not be boring, game should be fun.
Sorry about offering no solution to this. I am very very drunk and my crew is off on pleasure hubs as usual.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:56:00 -
[142]
Regarding:
Originally by: Resivan No solution based on varying monetary rewards will ever draw people out of high sec for the simple reason that this is an MMO and an MMO's economy runs less on money than on fun. If the game isn't fun, people aren't going to play it. Since CCP is a business and the people running it depend on it for their food and beer money, they have to make the game fun for as many people as they can.
Originally by: Urho Kaleva Reason for not going to 0.0 = gatecamps. Reason for this: Gatecamps are predictable, thus boring -> for both sides.
Good game should not be boring, game should be fun.
Sorry about offering no solution to this. I am very very drunk and my crew is off on pleasure hubs as usual.
And my travel post up there, we have a bit of a consensus.
Gatecamps are dull, no action. Falling into gatecamp, not fun. Going to 0.0, not fun. Staying there, heartpumping, but not really fun or rewarding.
Rewards(like bind ships and stuff), alternate ways to get there, more diverse ways to utilize it, more "stuff" = fun. |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:59:00 -
[143]
As a 0.0 resident, gatecamping seems very boring to me. I don't do it.
Running gate camps is a lot of fun though!
There's nothing like coming through a gate, seeing the shimmer of a bubble around you and an overview full of bad guys to get the adrenaline going. It's very satisfying to get out of those situations alive based on good decision making and good piloting. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:01:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Gatecamps are dull, no action. Falling into gatecamp, not fun. Going to 0.0, not fun. Staying there, heartpumping, but not really fun or rewarding.
Read the old thread in my sig, a worked out solution.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Patul Swarntag
Minmatar Eagleburger Enterprises Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:02:00 -
[145]
Its a game - get out and play it and have fun.
If you die you upgrade your clone and undock and continue playing.
0.0 and low sec are easy to fly around and get into. There are many fits for many different ships that will get you into 0.0 and keep you safe. When I was still a very young player I had a gang of 12 chasing me through about 7 systems and then cornering me in a dead end system. They had T2 cruisers and ceptors and some nasty stuff.
What did I have? A T1 20,000 isk executioner with a mwd and 2 warp core stabs. They couldn't catch me.
The beauty of EVE is that it is a microcosm of life - if you are too stupid to work out how to survive and be successful in lowsec then you deserve to languish in the bland and boring prison of Empire space. |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:03:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Gatecamps are dull, no action. Falling into gatecamp, not fun. Going to 0.0, not fun. Staying there, heartpumping, but not really fun or rewarding.
Read the old thread in my sig, a worked out solution.
Aye, it's not like it's a revolutionary idea, just something that should already be
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:13:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Read the old thread in my sig, a worked out solution.
Aye, it's not like it's a revolutionary idea, just something that should already be
Sad but true, lol
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:30:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 11/02/2009 12:30:01 funny how those low sec guys talking about initiative, risk and shooting back lolz because those super duper high skilled pirate 50 man blobs at gates are taking initiative and a risk *facepalm*
fact is, pirates are the real carebears
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Enid Blighter
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:59:00 -
[149]
I played the game for a few months 18 months or so ago and spent my whole time in high-sec space. I must admit that by the end I was pretty bored of it (and I was playing EQ2 at the time and stated seriously raiding).
This time around, with my new character I really do want to take some risks and explore the lower security areas but I'm really not sure what I will find/do once I'm there. Still the char is three days old so there's not much to lose either :p
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.11 13:22:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Gonada out it this way you idiots:
if you police lowsec or 0.0 with ANYTHING other than real people, you have just turned it into highsec.
i am so sick of this thread coming back up over and over by those who play this game yet have no guts for risk
die allready
Wrong. At present it is an extension of nullsec but without the rewards. As it's been pointed out, security in terms of policing goes from full on in 0.5 to nothing in 0.4 and only gate guns after that. There should be a minimal prescence, at least with decreasing prescence the further down you go so that 0.1 has only gate guns and not even gate guns beyond that when you enter nullsec.
This is supposed to be LOW security but as the name suggests, there should be at least a token level of security. Roaming NPC's maybe to clear the gates every now and then, calling reinforcements as needed. This can be completely random and there may be times when the gate can be camped all day without trouble from them but other times when they appear too frequently to keep a camp there. As they warp in, the campers can warp out so it's not like Concord where you're dead before you can even start to react. All this does is prevent certain gates being camped 23/7. Maybe they can be set to turn up more fequently to places where ship kills have been too frequent. This doesn't prevent gate camping per se, it just moves them around a bit rather than have one specific gate camped all the time.
Most choke points are camped and forcing them to move on occasionally gives players the ability to move outside of the constraints of highsec. Unlike Concord, they don't instakill anyone with a low security but given the ability to call on backup if you resist, it requires a considerable fleet to fend them off and a normal gate camp could not tank the primary force for very long. This forces the campers to move on and take up position elsewhere.
Rather than completely anihilate gate camping in lowsec which would be rather ridiculous, it would simply allow periods when the gate will be clear. However, the random element means when it will be clear is unknown so scouts would still be required and pirates can still have their fun.
-- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again |
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