Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Dato Koppla
Perkone Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 01:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know similar topics have been made, but this isn't for discussion, I just want to know how many trained BC V and Dessie V (with the prereqs for every race) just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion. I know I did.
Also want to know who doesn't have BC/Dessie V and didn't immediately start training them the second the caught wind of the changes. Bittervets obviously already have both and probably all Cruiser/Frigate V. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
186
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 03:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't have either to V yet, but I have more than enough time to do so before the expansion. There are other things I want to get to first. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. |
Alexsei Volkov
Order Of Black Knights Infinitus Cupio
9
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 08:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Des V finishes in a few hours... about a month for BC V... In the middle of my CHA/WILL remap. |
Alice Saki
Analog Folk SRS.
86
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 08:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
I was gonna but I got it 2 4 and well wanted other stuff done xD http://tinyurl.com/RifterDeath My Rifter Adventure in Null |
Boomhaur
18
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 09:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
I trained up dessie V, already had BC V. Feel almost like a traitor for training the dessie skill past 1, but they buffed those ships so I guess I have to let my hatred for those things go, even though years ago it was a favorite past time to pop dessies in a frigate, still hold a perfect record of never losing to one too. Lost count how many I downed back than on my pirate alt. |
Frank Millar
The Corporation Incorporated The Revolution.
26
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 09:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Battlecruisers V is currently in the queue, yes. If there's time, I'll pop in Destroyers V too.
Luckily, I'm on a PER/WIL mapping as well. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3420
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 09:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:I know similar topics have been made, but this isn't for discussion, I just want to know how many trained BC V and Dessie V (with the prereqs for every race) just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion. I know I did.
Also want to know who doesn't have BC/Dessie V and didn't immediately start training them the second the caught wind of the changes. Bittervets obviously already have both and probably all Cruiser/Frigate V.
I trained both of those in...2008? Maybe 2007.
I guess the point being BC 5 should be an early priority anyway, and Destroyers 5 too if you live in null. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Ank Parkor
WildSpace Otters
29
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 10:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
BC V will be done tomorrow. Dessies aren't on my to do list.
Short time trader, short term missionner, long term ambitions. |
Sunviking
The Shining Knights
31
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 13:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ank Parkor wrote:BC V will be done tomorrow. Dessies aren't on my to do list.
I'm in the same position. I really don't want to touch Destroyers, but I almost feel compelled to train lvl 5 seeing as I am coming to the end of a Perc/Will remap. |
Pyrosomniac
VC Academy
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 14:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
I already did, with no regrets.
I regularly use Destroyers and Battlecruisers, and feel I have invested my time well.
I'm currently training the cruisers to 4, then the battleships and their guns to 4 for all races, so I should be capable to fly everything except missile boats for the summer. |
|
MissileClub
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 17:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Destroyers 5 finished last night, and BC 5 was the skill before that. |
Elmanketticks
State Protectorate Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 18:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:...just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion...
please elaborate on that sp giveaway. I've not yet heard of this. FOR THE STATE! |
Mister Crispy
AC Enterprises
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 19:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Did BC V, will complete Destroyers V in a few hours. I was in the middle of training leadership skills too...
Elmanketticks wrote:Dato Koppla wrote:...just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion... please elaborate on that sp giveaway. I've not yet heard of this.
It's a combination of "we are changing the 'destroyers' skill to 'Amarr destroyer,' 'Caldari destroyer,' 'Minmatar destroyer,' and 'Gallente destroyer'" and "if you could fly it before the change, you'll be able to fly it after the change." |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
563
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 19:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'll be in my new Nighthawk Tuesday morning. There isn't anything left for you to do to Carebears. -áGo, kill them some more. They're like fungus or bacteria, they won't die and they won't stop. All you have to show for years of organized harassment campaigns against them is ... nothing. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
563
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 19:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Elmanketticks wrote:Dato Koppla wrote:...just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion... please elaborate on that sp giveaway. I've not yet heard of this.
Nice troll attempt, but he uses the word "possible" in referring to the SP reimbursement. There isn't anything left for you to do to Carebears. -áGo, kill them some more. They're like fungus or bacteria, they won't die and they won't stop. All you have to show for years of organized harassment campaigns against them is ... nothing. |
Elmanketticks
State Protectorate Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 19:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
so since I've BC on V since years and Des on IV, I should prolly go for Des V now? FOR THE STATE! |
Nicholas Tong
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 21:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
So the current most possible action they can take is give us all 5 BC/ Dessie skills as long we have the requirements, so for those now currently training those would mean they're getting a 4x SP ratio in the future? That doesn't seem right.
Not like I'm training them right now as a gamble tho, don't feel like they are they can be so generous as previously stated. |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
194
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 02:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ive trained BC 5 on all my combat toons and dessie 5 on 2. free SP ftw. |
Dato Koppla
Perkone Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 03:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nicholas Tong wrote:So the current most possible action they can take is give us all 5 BC/ Dessie skills as long we have the requirements, so for those now currently training those would mean they're getting a 4x SP ratio in the future?
Yeah pretty much what everyone is speculating, and the sp giveout will be huge if it happens that way, which is why many like me ditched their current training schedule to train BC/Dessie V. I had BC already, but I trained Dessie V and also all the prereqs for every race even though I don't fly Destroyers that much they're still useful and the Thrasher alone makes it worthwhile IMO
So from what I can see pretty much everyone is jumping on this bandwagon which will further increase the rage if CCP doesn't end up just giving away SP, which makes it less likely that they will do that ;) |
stoicfaux
957
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 03:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Don't forget about Jump Freighters. In theory, as tech 2 ships, the ship revamp will require having racial freighter 5 as a prereq (currently freighter 4 is required.) Assuming that CCP doesn't change their mind, anyone who can fly a jump freighter should get a free bump from racial freighter 4 to freighter 5.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|
|
Revman Zim
Babylon Holdings United Interstellar Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 08:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
I had Desy 5 and BC 5 before the announcement of the upcoming skill tree change.
What I didn't have was the prereq's for all the classes. I am Amarr trained, so I took Caldari, Minny and Gal to Frig 4 and Cruiser 3 to ensure that I met the prereq's to fly the BC's in those races. It only took a 5 day detour from my skill plan so that was worth the chance to "maybe" cash in on 6+ million SP. I am counting on the "if you could fly it before, you will be able to fly it after" statement by CCP.
Just waiting now to see how CCP decides to proceed. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 10:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
I had BC V already, but I did not have Amarr or Caldari ships trained at all.
So this week was spent training Amarr & Caldari frigate IV, Amarr and Caldari cruiser III, and next week Destroyers V will be finished.
If I end up with free SP, good. If not, I consider all this time well spent. Eventually I would have trained Amarr and Caldari, and with the Destroyer buff, a new world of cheap ganking opens before me. Not to mention that Thrashers in 0.0 are fun.
|
Clementina
The Scope
62
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 15:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
I had Destroyers 5 before the announcement. I switched to training Battlecruisers 5 and finished it a few days ago and also picked up Minmatar Crusiers 3 because of the announcement. I have no intention of flying Amarr, so I didn't train anything towards that.
Anyway, I should read the announcement again. I was planning to train Caldari Freighter eventually anyway and it will take approximately 6 days. But it seems that I should start training it now. |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
124
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 16:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
To make sure I understand, you only need BC5 and then the racial Desi4 for each race you want to fly correct? This will let you fly a BC for each race you have it for? On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 17:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lyron-Baktos wrote:To make sure I understand, you only need BC5 and then the racial Desi4 for each race you want to fly correct? This will let you fly a BC for each race you have it for?
Nope. BC and Destroyer skills have nothing to do with each other.
The thing is: apparently, if you can fly it now, you will be able to fly it with the same level of proficiency AFTER the changes.
So, having BCV and all 4 racial Cruiser skills to III means you can fly all BCs in the game at V. So, IN THEORY, when the changes take place, you will receive ALL FOUR BC skills at V.
With Destroyers is the same > having Destroyers at V and racial frigates at IV means you can fly all Destroyers in the game at max. level of competence, so you're supposed to get FOUR different skills at V after the patch.
So, if you train BC V, Destroyers V, all frigates to IV and all cruisers to III, you are supposed to get:
-Amarr/Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar Destroyer V. -Ammar/Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar Battlecruiser V.
Quite a few million SP for free, as you get three Rank 2 skills to V (around 1.5m SP) and three Rank 6 skills to V (around 4.5 m SP). So, IN THEORY, you could be getting up to six million SP just like that. You cannot redistribute them afterwards, but still a sweet (and fair) deal.
If CCP decides against this, we'd get (at least) the SP from BC V and Destroyer V back, I expect.
So, there's absolutely NOTHING to lose, other than training the racial frigates to IV and the cruisers to III. Which, if you ask me, takes little time and, eventually, most people will think of training. |
Elmanketticks
State Protectorate Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 17:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Could someone please post a link to this 'announcement' ? I'd like to have that black on white. FOR THE STATE! |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 18:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Elmanketticks wrote:Could someone please post a link to this 'announcement' ? I'd like to have that black on white.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=77673&find=unread
Haven't got those skills at V... But I still have time. |
Lady Naween
Good Vs. Neutral Stop Exploding You Cowards
19
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 18:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
on my main sure, had for quite some time. working on destroyer 5 on Naween, not that she will ever fly anything but t3s and commandships but you never know. |
Kyros Xero
Xuronautics
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 19:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Just finished the trains for myself, and we're offering bonuses to corpmates for everyone who hits the relevant milestones in time. |
Comodore John
Wooly Ltd.
18
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 20:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
Best part will be when all those people that trained BC and Dessy to 5 get the 6m extra SP go out to PvP... and got podded with a now out of date clone.
|
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
189
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 03:32:00 -
[31] - Quote
Comodore John wrote:Best part will be when all those people that trained BC and Dessy to 5 get the 6m extra SP go out to PvP... and got podded with a now out of date clone.
I think most who have the foresight to train BC and dessy V + prereqs will also know to update their clones if the extra SP puts them above their current model. EVEMon for one lets you know if your clone is insufficient. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. |
Boomhaur
20
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 03:44:00 -
[32] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:I'll be in my new Nighthawk Tuesday morning.
Welcome to the club brother, the Nighthawk is a beautiful ship isn't she. |
Nonnosa
Grey Nomads Combat Mining and Logistics
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 05:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote: So, if you train BC V, Destroyers V, all frigates to IV and all cruisers to III, you are supposed to get
-Amarr/Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar Destroyer V -Ammar/Caldari/Gallente/Minmatar Battlecruiser V
Quite a few million SP for free, as you get three Rank 2 skills to V (around 1.5m SP) and three Rank 6 skills to V (around 4.5 m SP). So, IN THEORY, you could be getting up to six million SP just like that. You cannot redistribute them afterwards, but still a sweet (and fair) deal
Even though I qualify I can't see CCP giving us all 4 BC and Destroyer skills sets to V. Its too big a free gift.
So, if you train BC V, Destroyers V, all frigates to IV and all cruisers to III, what you could get:
All Destroyers to IV and a skill point gift of 421,490 to build up one Racial Destroyer to V All Cruisers to IV (the new pre-requiste for the racial BC skill All BC to IV and a skill point gift of 1,264,470 to build up one racial BC to V
Only people who can fly more than one racial type of Interdictor or Command Ship will get the skills to V
My 2 isk on the subject, it will interesting to see what they do. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 06:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:I think most who have the foresight to train BC and dessy V + prereqs will also know to update their clones if the extra SP puts them above their current model. EVEMon for one lets you know if your clone is insufficient.
I already did this when I started. No need to update my clone.
Nonnosa wrote:Only people who can fly more than one racial type of Interdictor or Command Ship will get the skills to V
True. Would be a bit too easy to get all command ships trained. I started to get excited. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
9
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 08:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
Even though I qualify I can't see CCP giving us all 4 BC and Destroyer skills sets to V. Its too big a free gift.
So, if you train BC V, Destroyers V, all frigates to IV and all cruisers to III, what you could get:
All Destroyers to IV and a skill point gift of 421,490 to build up one Racial Destroyer to V All Cruisers to IV (the new pre-requiste for the racial BC skill All BC to IV and a skill point gift of 1,264,470 to build up one racial BC to V
Only people who can fly more than one racial type of Interdictor or Command Ship will get the skills to V
My 2 isk on the subject, it will interesting to see what they do.[/quote]
I doubt CCP does this. I agree that up to 6m SP sounds quite a lot, but please remember that these are skill points WHICH HAVE NO EXTRA USE. I mean, they are given to you for you to fly ships YOU CAN CURRENTLY FLY.
So, it's not really "a gift". It's, merely, leaving your character able to fly as many ships as today.
If your suggestions/guesses were implemented, it would be terribly UNFAIR.
For instance: I can fly a Naga, Talos, Oracle and Tornado with a Lvl V of skill competency. If they DO NOT give me all four racial BCs to five, CCP would force me to train 3 rank 6 skills to level V. Which means what, two months?
CCP should not set me back two months. It's only fair that I will be able to fly the same ships before and after the patch.
And as I said, those 6 million SP would give me ZERO advantages. There's nothing new I will be flying, absolutely nothing else I'll be able to do that I cannot do now.
There are only two reasons for me to train for this:
1)Cosmetic changes. 6m SP more is better than 6m SP less. 2)Eventually I'll fly all subcapitals in the game. If I don't train this now, I'll have to waste months later.
If, post patch, I lose the ability to fly any Battlecruiser in the game with level V, I'll be seriously pissed off. |
Fenri1
Dirt And Other Commodities Corp
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 11:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
The most recent dev post in the primary thread (page 101?) indicates that this is going to be a long term process. No major skill tree changes in this weeks patch, all changes will be posted ahead of time, Frigates will be revamped first to try to find problems with the new system early.
You have plenty of time to get your destroyer/battle cruiser skills up, in case they do implement a variation on bonus skill points. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2280
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 12:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
Fenri1 wrote:The most recent dev post in the primary thread (page 101?) indicates that this is going to be a long term process. No major skill tree changes in this weeks patch, all changes will be posted ahead of time, Frigates will be revamped first to try to find problems with the new system early.
You have plenty of time to get your destroyer/battle cruiser skills up, in case they do implement a variation on bonus skill points.
I think it was also said, that it doesn't make much sense to have racial ship trees for destroyers, since in the new system the skill would only allows you to fly one ship. So it's very likely, that we will get new ships in the destoyer class for all races around the time or soon after these changes are finally implemented. It's just another reason to train the skills up before the change happens, since the new potential destroyers might be very attractive ships to fly even if you don't care for the current ones. |
Dato Koppla
Perkone Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 14:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
Should I train Cruisers to IV or do you guys think it's cool leaving them on III, considering the new prerequisite might be IV (for BCs) I figured there's a chance they'll only give it out to people who have the racial Cruiser IV |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
626
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 17:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
Finished Battlecruisers 5 this morning Did Destroyers 5 just before that.
Working on Warfare Link Specialist 4 for Command Ships now.
I already have all races with Frigate 4 + Cruiser 4 + Battleship 4, with Caldari all to 5. I'm leaning towards Amarr 5 next (or maybe Minmatar 5), but I'd really like to get gunnery skills up a bit first.
I have an alt currently training for a jumpfreighter in case that gets raised to racial freighter 5 (already has racial freighter 4).
|
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Bellum Esca
95
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 21:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
My logic was fine I will train every T1 ship...
So if racial BC@some level is a prereq for racial BS in new model why would you not just train all the racial BS skills? (What I did). This means you get all BC skills at the level required to get the corresponding racial BS which looks to be BC IV using current models.
Unless CCP lied about letting us keep the ability to fly any ship we can fly now. |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
191
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 01:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:Should I train Cruisers to IV or do you guys think it's cool leaving them on III, considering the new prerequisite might be IV (for BCs) I figured there's a chance they'll only give it out to people who have the racial Cruiser IV The racial BC skill will have a prerequisite of racial cruiser IV, but going by the idea of being able to fly what you were before racial cruiser III will be sufficient. If you have all racial cruiser III and BC V, then you'll have all racial BC V. Cruiser IV will be needed to inject the racial BC skill, but it won't be needed to fly BCs themselves. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. |
Eofina
Ministry of Destruction SCUM.
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 05:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
I've had BC V for years, Destroyer V for nearly as long. Not to mention all 4 Cruisers to V.
None of this was done for free SP, but because I wanted to be a well rounded sub-cap pilot. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. Cascade Imminent
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 06:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
currently training battle cruisers to IV.
i was going to do it, at some point... the announcement just made me do it sooner rather than later. |
Elmanketticks
State Protectorate Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 09:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
Concerning balance: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898397#post898397
This might answer some questions (thx to Liang for the info gathering work):
Liang Nuren wrote:... Further addendum to help keep everyone up to date: CCP Soundwave had this to say here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898503#post898503CCP Soundwave wrote: We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.
And again here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898531#post898531CCP Soundwave wrote:We'll sit down and have a chat about it, but what we're looking to do is create a solid ship scheme, not take things away from people. You'll be reimbursed properly. More info: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898882#post898882CCP Soundwave wrote:No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.
More! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=900335#post900335CCP Ytterbium wrote: ... Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5....
This topic is thoroughly beat to death! The latest on Reimbursement (but read the whole thing for seriously - tons of info): https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=908403#post908403... Q: Will all of these ship balancing changes be applied in one go for Inferno? A: No, the nuance is we will begin this general ship balancing plan with Inferno. Not only trying to revamp everything for Inferno would require a massive commitment, but even if it was possible, doing so in one move would be quite risky as ship balancing is a delicate process. That means we will proceed slowly, one step at a time, starting with the ship classes that need the most love (most likely tech 1 frigates and destroyers), then moving our way up. This blog is describing future vision changes in an effort to increase transparency. We definitely want to have more blogs, discussion and feedback along the way. ... Q: With the skill changes, I will have to train for [racial cruiser V] and [racial battlecruiser V] to train for a Command Ship, how does that make it easier for me? ... Example: Before, training for a Harbinger required you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Cruiser 3 and Battlecruisers at 2 Before, training for an Absolution required you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Cruiser 5, Battlecruiser at 5 and Heavy Assault Ships at 4 Now, training for a Harbinger requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and then Amarr Battlecruiser at 1. Now, training for an Absolution requires you to train for Amarr Frigate 4, Amarr Destroyer 4, Amarr Cruiser 4 and Amarr Battlecruiser at 5. There is no more need for the Amarr Cruiser 5 and Heavy Assault Ship at 4. ... FOR THE STATE! |
Lab MasterMind
Capital Armaments
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.24 18:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:My logic was fine I will train every T1 ship...
So if racial BC@some level is a prereq for racial BS in new model why would you not just train all the racial BS skills? (What I did). This means you get all BC skills at the level required to get the corresponding racial BS which looks to be BC IV using current models.
Unless CCP lied about letting us keep the ability to fly any ship we can fly now.
If you have the BS skill trained already you won't need any BC skill to fly it. Similar to having Carrier trained and getting podded and losing BS V... you can still fly the Carrier.
|
Darthewok
Perkone Caldari State
58
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 06:39:00 -
[46] - Quote
I had BC5 before the announcement, happily, because that is the important one. Destroyer5 is good too, but much less important than BC5 because it only takes about 1 week to train each racial to 5 vs 1 month for each racial for Battlecruiser5. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 |
Physalia Physalis
The BlackHand Order
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 09:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
I have dessie and BC to 5 on most of the chars that will be flying them, so its not such a problem for me.
The one problem i have is that the new alt I made (which i made specifically to be a command ship pilot) may now have 3 months added to the dam training plan.
First of all, I trained all the leadership skills (all combat leadership to 5, except fleet command to 4), then I started training on the ship skills.
After I started training the ship skills, then they brought out the dev blog stating these changes and it now looks like I wont get BC5 before the patch.
If I have to train all individual race BC's to 5 that is gonna make me an unhappy bunny :(
|
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. Cascade Imminent
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 15:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
Is there any word of what would happen if you were in the middle of training BC or dessy when the changes happen?
for example if you were 50% of the way through battlecruiser V. would you have all 4 racial skills at 50% of the way to the next level (provided you had the relevant prerequisites) or would they be at 0% progress?
this is the situation i'll find myself in and i was wondering if it was worth putting battlecruisers V in to my training plan or not. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
9
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 15:56:00 -
[49] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Is there any word of what would happen if you were in the middle of training BC or dessy when the changes happen?
for example if you were 50% of the way through battlecruiser V. would you have all 4 racial skills at 50% of the way to the next level (provided you had the relevant prerequisites) or would they be at 0% progress?
this is the situation i'll find myself in and i was wondering if it was worth putting battlecruisers V in to my training plan or not.
The best things that could happen is that either you get refunded those points, or you are given your racial BC "half trained".
In either case, you would lose on any potential bonus they're handing over, so I'd train it ASAP if I were you. BC V is one of the skills that makes me the happiest, currently. Incredibly useful. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. Cascade Imminent
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 18:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:Dave stark wrote:Is there any word of what would happen if you were in the middle of training BC or dessy when the changes happen?
for example if you were 50% of the way through battlecruiser V. would you have all 4 racial skills at 50% of the way to the next level (provided you had the relevant prerequisites) or would they be at 0% progress?
this is the situation i'll find myself in and i was wondering if it was worth putting battlecruisers V in to my training plan or not. The best things that could happen is that either you get refunded those points, or you are given your racial BC "half trained". In either case, you would lose on any potential bonus they're handing over, so I'd train it ASAP if I were you. BC V is one of the skills that makes me the happiest, currently. Incredibly useful.
this is the issue; i either train it to level V, and sacrifice the prerequisites for three races, or sacrifice battlecruiser V. i'm mostly a miner so i think sacrificing rank V is a lesser evil than 3 other races to battlecruiser IV. time is against me :( |
|
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
9
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 18:09:00 -
[51] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:[quote=Darius Brinn][ this is the issue; i either train it to level V, and sacrifice the prerequisites for three races, or sacrifice battlecruiser V. i'm mostly a miner so i think sacrificing rank V is a lesser evil than 3 other races to battlecruiser IV. time is against me :(
I am afraid I don't understand.
In order to FULLY and ABSOLUTELY ensure that you will receive all racial Battlecruisers V and all racial Destroyers V, you need:
-All Frigate skills to IV. -All Cruiser skills to III. -Battlecruisers V. -Destroyers V.
Before the patch hits, you have PLENTY of time to train all this from ZERO, even if you started today (I think).
Frigates to IV and Cruisers to III takes less than a week in total, even if you don't have ANY Frigate trained to IV already (which is pretty stupid). Cruisers to III takes around 3 days in total, even with low skills, if I'm not mistaken. Destroyers V takes 8 days or so from zero to V. Battlecruisers V takes 15 to 20 days depending on your skills.
I don't know when Inferno fully hits, but they've said that they want to revamp the ship lines before the skills changes. You HAVE time, more than enough. But don't delay it if you can.
I would have liked to be training Large Blaster specialization or maxing Gallente subsystems, but in 2 days I finish Destroyers V and I can get on with my EvE life, forgetting about all this until Inferno hits and I still find myself ABLE to fly all the ships I can fly today. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 18:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
Release date for Inferno is May 22nd. So there is still time to train these. And like said before they're rebalancing ships before they make this skill change. Even if they start May 22nd it's going to be T1 frigates and cruisers. After those are done they move to larger ships. This rebalancing process will take some time. It's not going to happen in few days. |
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Bellum Esca
95
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 19:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
Lab MasterMind wrote:FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:My logic was fine I will train every T1 ship...
So if racial BC@some level is a prereq for racial BS in new model why would you not just train all the racial BS skills? (What I did). This means you get all BC skills at the level required to get the corresponding racial BS which looks to be BC IV using current models.
Unless CCP lied about letting us keep the ability to fly any ship we can fly now. If you have the BS skill trained already you won't need any BC skill to fly it. Similar to having Carrier trained and getting podded and losing BS V... you can still fly the Carrier.
I was under the impression that you would need the previous racial class to 4 to get the next racial class? |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. Cascade Imminent
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 19:39:00 -
[54] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:Dave stark wrote:[quote=Darius Brinn][ this is the issue; i either train it to level V, and sacrifice the prerequisites for three races, or sacrifice battlecruiser V. i'm mostly a miner so i think sacrificing rank V is a lesser evil than 3 other races to battlecruiser IV. time is against me :( I am afraid I don't understand. In order to FULLY and ABSOLUTELY ensure that you will receive all racial Battlecruisers V and all racial Destroyers V, you need: -All Frigate skills to IV. -All Cruiser skills to III. -Battlecruisers V. -Destroyers V. Before the patch hits, you have PLENTY of time to train all this from ZERO, even if you started today (I think). Frigates to IV and Cruisers to III takes less than a week in total, even if you don't have ANY Frigate trained to IV already (which is pretty stupid). Cruisers to III takes around 3 days in total, even with low skills, if I'm not mistaken. Destroyers V takes 8 days or so from zero to V. Battlecruisers V takes 15 to 20 days depending on your skills. I don't know when Inferno fully hits, but they've said that they want to revamp the ship lines before the skills changes. You HAVE time, more than enough. But don't delay it if you can. I would have liked to be training Large Blaster specialization or maxing Gallente subsystems, but in 2 days I finish Destroyers V and I can get on with my EvE life, forgetting about all this until Inferno hits and I still find myself ABLE to fly all the ships I can fly today. patch is out on the 22nd. that's 27 days. tomorrow i'll be able to add battlecruisers V to my queue. that'll take 23 days, leaving me with 4 days. that'll take ~5 days. so i'm either going to sacrifice one of the racial battle cruisers, or i'll have a day or two left on battlecruisers IV, but it'll almost be finished training to V
if i train frigs/cruisers before level V battlecruisers, and then the patch comes out before i finish battlecrusiers IV, what will happen to the skillpoints? will they just give me all battlecruisers IV with 0% progress to rank V and say "you just wasted 25 days, but you got all 4 races battlecruisers at IV"? because if that's the case i'd gladly drop one of the racial battle cruisers because I to V is faster than IV to V 4 times.
does that make any more sense? |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 19:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
am i the only one who would rather have the free sp to insta-train whatever i want? |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 23:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:if i train frigs/cruisers before level V battlecruisers, and then the patch comes out before i finish battlecrusiers IV, what will happen to the skillpoints? will they just give me all battlecruisers IV with 0% progress to rank V and say "you just wasted 25 days, but you got all 4 races battlecruisers at IV"? because if that's the case i'd gladly drop one of the racial battle cruisers because I to V is faster than IV to V 4 times.
does that make any more sense?
Latest info is that they are not going to remove current destroyer/battlecruiser skills before they have done with rebalancing. We don't know when they start rebalancing ships. They do T1 frigates and cruisers before T1 destroyers and battlecuisers. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
441
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 23:30:00 -
[57] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:am i the only one who would rather have the free sp to insta-train whatever i want?
Probably not, but honestly I would take all four racial BC skills to five right away anyhow. Not as convinced on destroyers; I might stockpile that for the inevitable T3 losses.... |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. Cascade Imminent
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 07:33:00 -
[58] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Dave stark wrote:if i train frigs/cruisers before level V battlecruisers, and then the patch comes out before i finish battlecrusiers IV, what will happen to the skillpoints? will they just give me all battlecruisers IV with 0% progress to rank V and say "you just wasted 25 days, but you got all 4 races battlecruisers at IV"? because if that's the case i'd gladly drop one of the racial battle cruisers because I to V is faster than IV to V 4 times.
does that make any more sense? Latest info is that they are not going to remove current destroyer/battlecruiser skills before they have done with rebalancing. We don't know when they start rebalancing ships. They do T1 frigates and cruisers before T1 destroyers and battlecuisers. well i'm only a couple of days short on time, if it was all to be done on the day of the patch, so i guess i'm safe. |
Elsbeth Taron
Elsbeth Taron Corporation
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 07:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
So are these changes definitely coming? |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
9
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 09:14:00 -
[60] - Quote
Dave stark wrote: patch is out on the 22nd. that's 27 days. tomorrow i'll be able to add battlecruisers V to my queue. that'll take 23 days, leaving me with 4 days. that'll leave ~5 days. so i'm either going to sacrifice one of the racial battle cruisers, or i'll have a day or two left on battlecruisers IV, but it'll almost be finished training to V
if i train frigs/cruisers before level V battlecruisers, and then the patch comes out before i finish battlecrusiers IV, what will happen to the skillpoints? will they just give me all battlecruisers IV with 0% progress to rank V and say "you just wasted 25 days, but you got all 4 races battlecruisers at IV"? because if that's the case i'd gladly drop one of the racial battle cruisers because I to V is faster than IV to V 4 times.
does that make any more sense?
But that's what I meant. Inferno hits in 27 days, but as far as I know, these changes to BC and Destroyer skills will NOT BE IMPLEMENTED BY THEN.
CCP claimed they wanted to review the ship lines first, possibly introducing new Destroyer hulls. ONLY after they've revisited and redesigned the ships themselves, the changes to skills will be implemented.
So no, you don't JUST have 27 days. You probably have months.
|
|
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. Cascade Imminent
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 11:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:Dave stark wrote: patch is out on the 22nd. that's 27 days. tomorrow i'll be able to add battlecruisers V to my queue. that'll take 23 days, leaving me with 4 days. that'll leave ~5 days. so i'm either going to sacrifice one of the racial battle cruisers, or i'll have a day or two left on battlecruisers IV, but it'll almost be finished training to V
if i train frigs/cruisers before level V battlecruisers, and then the patch comes out before i finish battlecrusiers IV, what will happen to the skillpoints? will they just give me all battlecruisers IV with 0% progress to rank V and say "you just wasted 25 days, but you got all 4 races battlecruisers at IV"? because if that's the case i'd gladly drop one of the racial battle cruisers because I to V is faster than IV to V 4 times.
does that make any more sense?
But that's what I meant. Inferno hits in 27 days, but as far as I know, these changes to BC and Destroyer skills will NOT BE IMPLEMENTED BY THEN. CCP claimed they wanted to review the ship lines first, possibly introducing new Destroyer hulls. ONLY after they've revisited and redesigned the ships themselves, the changes to skills will be implemented. So no, you don't JUST have 27 days. You probably have months. that's good to know, looks like i'll be able to get racial battlecruisers and destroyers then. |
Jandice Ymladris
Perkone Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 08:25:00 -
[62] - Quote
Had BC5 trained since whenever, can't think when I did it. I did finish training Destroyer 5 after the announcement, just to be sure (had it on 4, and was only a week training). Better safe then sorry I say, and I enjoy flying ships of the 4 races (albeit gallente seems underrepresented in ships I fly) |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
44
|
Posted - 2012.04.30 19:33:00 -
[63] - Quote
Well, I had BC IV and actually fly 3 different racial BCs, so I went ahead and trained that up. I don't see why I'd bother doing the same with destroyers, though, if I want it it's a short enough skill that bumping it to V four times isn't all that much longer than doing it once. And I have no real use for it now, so meh. |
Kalli Brixzat
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:15:00 -
[64] - Quote
Elsbeth Taron wrote:So are these changes definitely coming?
Almost certainly, yes. The only question is when those changes will be implemented. |
Jacob Straven
Air Cascade Imminent
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 18:48:00 -
[65] - Quote
Quite funny that I had Dessy V and BC V just finished before they announced this :P |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 19:27:00 -
[66] - Quote
Got both Dessy and BC to 5, they're a nice skill to have regardless of the planned changes. |
MIkhail Illiad
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
Be funny if CCP turned around and said "LOL! this was all a big troll we're not changing anything we just wanted to see how many people would run out and train BC and Destroyers to lvl 5!" :D
In the knowledge that this probably wasn't a troll I boxed off BC 5 just after the announcement and am gonna get round to doing destroyers V (honest I will) There once was an interesting signature here... It has long since disapeared.-á |
Dato Koppla
Perkone Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 00:12:00 -
[68] - Quote
Well they can't really troll us cause BC V is downright one of the best skills in the game, Dessies V is a little lackluster, but Interdictors have an active role in the metagame and with the Destroyer buff the Thrasher is godlike, so I won't regret BC/Dessie V even though it was a bit premature than what I had planned.
I'm really hoping they add more Destroyer hulls though (come on T1 missile Cormorant), 1 for each race is a little lame especially considering you'll need to train it to IV to get to Cruisers in the planned changes. |
Sunviking
The Shining Knights
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 21:03:00 -
[69] - Quote
Just finishing off Destroyers 5 now, got BC5 last month.
But looking at one of the Dev responses, they won't be doing the skillbook changes for Inferno, so maybe later this year if we are lucky. |
Mr Ranger
Nullsec Pimps Associated Apocalypse Now.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 00:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
Quote:There will be no skill change for Inferno. Your destroyer and battlecruiser skills are safe for now Battlecruisers will have to wait until we have rebalanced frigates and destroyers to have something clean to compare them with
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99842&find=unread |
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3621
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 09:57:00 -
[71] - Quote
And that's how CCP trolled everyone into training BC V
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 10:15:00 -
[72] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:And that's how CCP trolled everyone into training BC V
True.
Thank God BC V is one of the most useful skills out there, and that with the Destroyers buff, Thrashers are fun. Sabres alone made it worth training Destroyers V, in my opinion.
|
Kalli Brixzat
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 19:02:00 -
[73] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:Malcanis wrote:And that's how CCP trolled everyone into training BC V
True. Thank God BC V is one of the most useful skills out there, and that with the Destroyers buff, Thrashers are fun. Sabres alone made it worth training Destroyers V, in my opinion.
Also....the rumors of new Destroyer hulls make getting it to V even more intriguing. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. Cascade Imminent
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 20:19:00 -
[74] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:(come on T1 missile Cormorant) this alone would make me want to train dessy V |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Chained Reactions
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 22:08:00 -
[75] - Quote
MIkhail Illiad wrote:Be funny if CCP turned around and said "LOL! this was all a big troll we're not changing anything we just wanted to see how many people would run out and train BC and Destroyers to lvl 5!" :D
In the knowledge that this probably wasn't a troll I boxed off BC 5 just after the announcement and am gonna get round to doing destroyers V (honest I will)
That would be fine by me. I was planning on flying Command ships eventually. This just gave me an incentive to get this stuff done early. |
Kalli Brixzat
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 22:36:00 -
[76] - Quote
FireT wrote:MIkhail Illiad wrote:Be funny if CCP turned around and said "LOL! this was all a big troll we're not changing anything we just wanted to see how many people would run out and train BC and Destroyers to lvl 5!" :D
In the knowledge that this probably wasn't a troll I boxed off BC 5 just after the announcement and am gonna get round to doing destroyers V (honest I will) That would be fine by me. I was planning on flying Command ships eventually. This just gave me an incentive to get this stuff done early.
Pretty much this. And getting BC to V couldn't hurt for...you know...flying battlecruisers...better. |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
179
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 08:56:00 -
[77] - Quote
So... may 22nd, if I still have a few days left on BC V, i'm not going to be left out to dry? I may even have time to get my same-account alts to Dessy and BC V, or at least Dessy V and BC IV?
Also... what was this about freighters? |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 11:58:00 -
[78] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:And that's how CCP trolled everyone into training BC V
Oh yeah. It's very bad skill to have at level 5.
I was going to train it anyway, so why should I wait if I can train it now. Especially now after seeing new Absolution and Damnation... |
Gul'gotha Derv'ash
Occupational Hazzard Ushra'Khan
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 15:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:So... may 22nd, if I still have a few days left on BC V, i'm not going to be left out to dry? I may even have time to get my same-account alts to Dessy and BC V, or at least Dessy V and BC IV?
Also... what was this about freighters?
From my understanding of what the devs have said we will have some time before the changes are in place. The first release with Inferno will be focused on frigs from what it seems. You probably have months until they actually get around to the dest/bc. Even more so if what they planned to do doesn't work too well with frigs.
In my opinion this entire change is ******* ******** though. It does not make things simpler for ANYONE. It just adds more time that you will have to spend training and in turn gives CCP more money from your subscription. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
162
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 17:10:00 -
[80] - Quote
I had both to 5 before it was cool!
Though never finished interdictor training. Liked my lvl 5 command ship too much |
|
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
183
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 08:13:00 -
[81] - Quote
Well, I guess then I'll have time to get my two mains to BC lvl 5 on both my accounts, and then my secondary and tertiary characters on those two accounts to BC IV, dessy IV.
Quote:In my opinion this entire change is ******* ******** though. It does not make things simpler for ANYONE. It just adds more time that you will have to spend training and in turn gives CCP more money from your subscription.
I completely agree - if they think BC skill is too broad and abnormal because it allows one proficiency in all races BCs, I've already proposed a simple solution:
On battle CRUISER hulls, the BC skill only grants one bonus, the other bonus comes from the racial CRUISER Skill
The same goes for destroyers and racial frigate skills.
No more training one skill to lvl 5, and having perfect hull bonuses for all 4 races...
For noobs when they first sit in a BC hull, they already have 1 bonus to lvl 3 (I guess it should be the tanking/cap bonus to make it more noob friendly) |
Kalli Brixzat
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 15:45:00 -
[82] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Well, I guess then I'll have time to get my two mains to BC lvl 5 on both my accounts, and then my secondary and tertiary characters on those two accounts to BC IV, dessy IV. Quote:In my opinion this entire change is ******* ******** though. It does not make things simpler for ANYONE. It just adds more time that you will have to spend training and in turn gives CCP more money from your subscription. I completely agree - if they think BC skill is too broad and abnormal because it allows one proficiency in all races BCs, I've already proposed a simple solution: On battle CRUISER hulls, the BC skill only grants one bonus, the other bonus comes from the racial CRUISER Skill The same goes for destroyers and racial frigate skills. No more training one skill to lvl 5, and having perfect hull bonuses for all 4 races... For noobs when they first sit in a BC hull, they already have 1 bonus to lvl 3 (I guess it should be the tanking/cap bonus to make it more noob friendly)
BC and Destroyers are different because they were added later. As opposed to the core ships (FR, CR, BS), which are divided into the 4 racial variant-skills.
The change is coming...at some point. |
The Cake
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.07 20:36:00 -
[83] - Quote
"If and when such changes occur, we would remove the generic Destroyer and Battlecruiser skills, reimburse the skill points (and possibly the cost) not to penalize players"
I just skimmed the thread, didn't see anyone mention that quote. It seems pretty straightforwardly saying no free SKP.
However, if you're on a Per/Will remap then it could be a nice way of getting a bonus charisma or int/mem skill. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 07:32:00 -
[84] - Quote
It's true.
But it's undeniable that CCP also stated that if you could fly it BEFORE, you will be able to fly it AFTER the changes.
I can now fly all Destroyers and Battlecruisers with skill Lvl V.
Simply reimbursing me roughly 2m SP means I will need to devote 6 MILLION SP to training for ships I can fly now.
Simply reimbursing me those 2 skills means I WILL be penalized. Forcing me to train 6m SP for ZERO gain is not fair.
So, what would the best solution be?
In my opinion, CCP should not hand over 6m SP to those with such skills trained. They should just give us the SKILLS, ALREADY TRAINED TO V. Just log in to discover all Destroyers trained to V and all Battlecruisers trained to V.
My overall SP would increase, yes, but with ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGES from the current status. My character stays THE SAME, which is what I want. And I'd have to get more expensive clones, too. |
Heun zero
Reliant Tactical Operations
50
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 10:11:00 -
[85] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote: Simply reimbursing me roughly 2m SP means I will need to devote 6 MILLION SP to training for ships I can fly now.
Simply reimbursing me those 2 skills means I WILL be penalized. Forcing me to train 6m SP for ZERO gain is not fair.
So, what would the best solution be?
In my opinion, CCP should not hand over 6m SP to those with such skills trained. They should just give us the SKILLS, ALREADY TRAINED TO V. Just log in to discover all Destroyers trained to V and all Battlecruisers trained to V.
My overall SP would increase, yes, but with ABSOLUTELY NO CHANGES from the current status. My character stays THE SAME, which is what I want. And I'd have to get more expensive clones, too.
I disagree with you. I know it's **** that you'd have to train 3 rank 6 and 3 rank 2 skills again just to be able to fly what you could before. But I find it more logical if ccp just reimburses the SP and allows you to invest it into the skill(s) of your choice. Even though this will penalize players who have trained those skills before.
CCP is a bit too worried about pissing players off sometime, so I think they'll just give everyone all the racial bc and destroyer skills as long as you have the appropriate pre-reqs |
Klown Walk
Black Rebel Rifter Club
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 11:05:00 -
[86] - Quote
Had bc 5 for a year now I think and don-¦t care about destroyers. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 11:37:00 -
[87] - Quote
Heun zero wrote:
I disagree with you. I know it's **** that you'd have to train 3 rank 6 and 3 rank 2 skills again just to be able to fly what you could before. But I find it more logical if ccp just reimburses the SP and allows you to invest it into the skill(s) of your choice. Even though this will penalize players who have trained those skills before.
CCP is a bit too worried about pissing players off sometime, so I think they'll just give everyone all the racial bc and destroyer skills as long as you have the appropriate pre-reqs
I see nothing logical in what you propose. To me, the ideal situation would imply these two things:
-No player is penalized in the ships they can fly, or their level of proficiency (toons stay the same) -No free SP which could be allocated elsewhere.
So, giving me ALL racial BC and Destroyers skills at Level V is PERFECT:
-My character will not be better in any sense. -The SP I put into flying Destroyers and Battlecruisers remain there.
I will take the higher clone expenses, no problems. But ANY other solutions would not make any sense.
Giving me Gallente Battlecruiser V? Forcing me to train 20 extra days to fly my Hurricane to the proficiency I got now? Then ANOTHER 20 days to fly my Naga? Then 7 or 9 more for the Thrasher?
No thanks. That makes absolutely no sense: it would PUNISH my character for NO REASON.
Is there anything I'm missing here? Any potential exploits, abuses or well-thought motives that would justify crippling my character?
If they indeed exist, please let me hear them. But no taking things from me "just because", please. |
Vandir Rael
Regnum-Irae Yulai Federation
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 18:39:00 -
[88] - Quote
I don't really understand why CCP wants to change those skills...
- If they reimburse the SP it will be an hard hit for older players that will have to re-train all their ships
- if they give level 5 skills to whoever had it before they will just create a wider gap between old and new player, and newbies do not need to have an even more difficoult learning curvethan they have now...
If they wanted racial BC skills they should have created them that way, it seems to me that now it's too late to change their mind... I don't really understand |
Dato Koppla
Perkone Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 01:09:00 -
[89] - Quote
Heun zero wrote: I disagree with you. I know it's **** that you'd have to train 3 rank 6 and 3 rank 2 skills again just to be able to fly what you could before. But I find it more logical if ccp just reimburses the SP and allows you to invest it into the skill(s) of your choice. Even though this will penalize players who have trained those skills before.
CCP is a bit too worried about pissing players off sometime, so I think they'll just give everyone all the racial bc and destroyer skills as long as you have the appropriate pre-reqs
Somebody wants to move his BC and Destroyer skills somewhere else That approach makes no sense as there are a huge number of people who have trained BC/Des to V and fly more than 1 race BC/Des thus crapping all over these people, I'm at around 20m+ sp now, if it gets reimbursed as you mentioned, I'll have to re-train 30% of my total skills points just to be at the same level. |
Heun zero
Reliant Tactical Operations
50
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 07:21:00 -
[90] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:Somebody wants to move his BC and Destroyer skills somewhere else That approach makes no sense as there are a huge number of people who have trained BC/Des to V and fly more than 1 race BC/Des thus crapping all over these people, I'm at around 20m+ sp now, if it gets reimbursed as you mentioned, I'll have to re-train 30% of my total skills points just to be at the same level.
I dont want to move my BC and destroyer skill elsewhere. I hadnt trained up my destroyer skill past lvl 2 up untill now and I fly my nighthawk on a regular basis so I dont want to loose that. Actually I think that training BC 5 was one of the more usefull skills I've trained. Besides can you and do you fly all races destroyers and BC right now? If only 1 then you're still at the same level and for each other one you can fly yes, you'd have to train up some extra skills
But that aside, the way I look at it is that is that it has never really made sense that those skills havent been racial skills all the time. I was actually (pleasantly) suprised when I first started training the BC that it wasnt a racial skill. So we've just been lucky so far.
By giving everyone all the racial skills at the lvl the now have the destroyer and the BC skill CCP is practically forcing people to train the skills now if they havent already or be left behind on everyone else. This is not so much a problem for older players as generally they either have the skills trained up already or they have a non combat char which doesnt need the skill anyway.
For new players it means that they either have to invest in those skills pronto or they have to accept that the gap between them and the veteran players will become a little bigger. This is the last thing the game needs even though it's only a one time change.
just my 2 cents though
But as I said before I dont think ccp will just reimburse the sp you have trained now, because as you said it means that a lot of players will feel like something has been taken from them.
p.s.
Darius Brinn wrote: I will take the higher clone expenses
I dont think this is that big of a deal that you could actually use that as an argument, unless you get podded every other day |
|
Morgan Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 10:15:00 -
[91] - Quote
8 days for command ships with bc 5 I'm just wondering will they do the freighters also and put them inline with other skills.
logicaly it should go industrial 4 -> freighter (this was said i belive) BUT will it also be freighter 5 -> jump freighters
|
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 11:53:00 -
[92] - Quote
Morgan Dinn wrote:logicaly it should go industrial 4 -> freighter (this was said i belive) BUT will it also be freighter 5 -> jump freighters
This is what I remember. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense.
Good thing I don't have to do freighter 5 any time soon again. |
Elsbeth Taron
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 20:34:00 -
[93] - Quote
Think I've understood what this is all about, and think it's a waste of time.
Destroyers use frigate-sized modules so they're basically frigates imo. Having trained already the racial frigate skill I think it's unnecessary to require racial destroyer training. How about the relevant destroyer requiring racial frigate V in order to fly it, with the destroyer skill giving extra bonuses, not much change from now?
Same line of thinking with cruisers/BC.
MUCH easier to implement and no faffing around with SP refund, extra training, blah-blah.
|
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
82
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 05:09:00 -
[94] - Quote
Elsbeth Taron wrote:How about the relevant destroyer requiring racial frigate V in order to fly it, with the destroyer skill giving extra bonuses, not much change from now?
So destroyers would be T2 frigates, eh? |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
87
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 04:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:I completely agree - if they think BC skill is too broad and abnormal because it allows one proficiency in all races BCs, I've already proposed a simple solution:
BC skill benefits _twelve_ distinct ships (counting T1 only). Each frigate skill benefits _six_, each cruiser skill _four_, and each BS skill _three_. You don't think maybe there's a legitimate complaint that it gives you access to more stuff than in should?
Making it a racial skill puts it on par with BS and Cruiser, which makes sense. Your complaint sort of makes sense for destroyers, which only gives 4 ships and they're essentially the same ship to begin with, but not for BCs. BCs really needed to be split. |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
132
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 13:56:00 -
[96] - Quote
Lost Greybeard wrote:Verity Sovereign wrote:I completely agree - if they think BC skill is too broad and abnormal because it allows one proficiency in all races BCs, I've already proposed a simple solution: BC skill benefits _twelve_ distinct ships (counting T1 only). Each frigate skill benefits _six_, each cruiser skill _four_, and each BS skill _three_. You don't think maybe there's a legitimate complaint that it gives you access to more stuff than in should? Making it a racial skill puts it on par with BS and Cruiser, which makes sense. Your complaint sort of makes sense for destroyers, which only gives 4 ships and they're essentially the same ship to begin with, but not for BCs. BCs really needed to be split.
Which is also the reason CCP is introducing new destroyers first. |
Demonfuge Malevolent
Missions and Logistics Incorporated
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 11:12:00 -
[97] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:I know similar topics have been made, but this isn't for discussion, I just want to know how many trained BC V and Dessie V (with the prereqs for every race) just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion. I know I did.
Also want to know who doesn't have BC/Dessie V and didn't immediately start training them the second the caught wind of the changes. Bittervets obviously already have both and probably all Cruiser/Frigate V.
Still have 2 months to run on the Int/Mem remap... was then going to remap for the social/trade skills BUT I will probably have to go to Per/Will again instead for BC/Dessie V. Every so often I petition CCP to check if there's an implementation date for this yet... if I catch wind of a fixed date I'll have to jettison the remaining Int/Mem and go straight on to BC/Dessie V. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
51
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 11:15:00 -
[98] - Quote
Demonfuge Malevolent wrote:Dato Koppla wrote:I know similar topics have been made, but this isn't for discussion, I just want to know how many trained BC V and Dessie V (with the prereqs for every race) just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion. I know I did.
Also want to know who doesn't have BC/Dessie V and didn't immediately start training them the second the caught wind of the changes. Bittervets obviously already have both and probably all Cruiser/Frigate V. Still have 2 months to run on the Int/Mem remap... was then going to remap for the social/trade skills BUT I will probably have to go to Per/Will again instead for BC/Dessie V. Every so often I petition CCP to check if there's an implementation date for this yet... if I catch wind of a fixed date I'll have to jettison the remaining Int/Mem and go straight on to BC/Dessie V.
we know it's being done in ship size order, and they're not even finished with frigs, there's no words on the new destroyers other than a footnote on the mining barge blog...
safe to say you've got plenty of time. you'll probably get a free re-map xmas present before the changes so don't worry about it. |
Glauron Darkshade
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:37:00 -
[99] - Quote
Perhaps another solution for CCP would be to create the 4 BC and DD skills at a lower x level, eg instead of BC being lvl 6, make it lvl 2.
This would allow them to minimize the new/old player gap caused by the 6m new skillpoints, and they could either reimburse the points at lvl6 for re-investment in the racial skills, OR give the 4 racial skills with a much smaller effect (eg clone level, free skillpoints etc).
It would also allow newer players to reach one race's high-BC levels faster (which seems to follow the CCP learning curve smoothing they have done over the years), while keeping the time required to crosstrain in sync with other types of ships (frigates, cruisers etc). |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
202
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 16:41:00 -
[100] - Quote
i got those skills on 2 my main characters. took time but these days BCs are very popular in roams and fleet ops.... so no loss |
|
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
209
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 17:08:00 -
[101] - Quote
Heun zero wrote: By giving everyone all the racial skills at the lvl the now have the destroyer and the BC skill CCP is practically forcing people to train the skills now if they havent already or be left behind on everyone else. This is not so much a problem for older players as generally they either have the skills trained up already or they have a non combat char which doesnt need the skill anyway.
For new players it means that they either have to invest in those skills pronto or they have to accept that the gap between them and the veteran players will become a little bigger. This is the last thing the game needs even though it's only a one time change.
well. for last 2 years (or that was only 1 year?) i remember 2 bonuses to "new players": removing of learning skills (+ increased speed of SP getting) + destroying quality of empire agents. So i guess it will be not so bad to give to old players 1 bonus?
|
Mavnas
The Scope Gallente Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 20:17:00 -
[102] - Quote
This seems like too big of a free gift to be true, but on the other hand I can fly three races' Command Ships currently. I'd be more than mildly annoyed if I couldn't fly at least 2 of those 3 after. (and yes I also have Command Ships V also) |
Hulasikaly Wada
Chaotic Makers
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 11:37:00 -
[103] - Quote
Mavnas wrote:This seems like too big of a free gift to be true, but on the other hand I can fly three races' Command Ships currently. I'd be more than mildly annoyed if I couldn't fly at least 2 of those 3 after. (and yes I also have Command Ships V also)
Point |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
108
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 11:50:00 -
[104] - Quote
Mavnas wrote:This seems like too big of a free gift to be true, but on the other hand I can fly three races' Command Ships currently. I'd be more than mildly annoyed if I couldn't fly at least 2 of those 3 after. (and yes I also have Command Ships V also)
how is it too big of a free gift?
all they're doing is making your clone more expensive. |
Srioghal moDhream
B and T Inc
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 13:44:00 -
[105] - Quote
Why does everyone assume that if you have BC V you would receive the racial BC at V?
They only said if you could fly it before you will be able to fly it after, they said nothing about flying it at the same level.
Will there also be racial command ship skills? That would be the only reason to train BC to V, unless you are per/wil spec'd and want the possible SP to put into a skill you are not mapped to.
Same applies to destroyer, just with interdictors instead of command ships.
|
March rabbit
Gansa. Legion of xXDEATHXx
210
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 13:57:00 -
[106] - Quote
Srioghal moDhream wrote:Why does everyone assume that if you have BC V you would receive the racial BC at V?
They only said if you could fly it before you will be able to fly it after, they said nothing about flying it at the same level.
reason is (you are right here): command ships. BC V is requirement. So if you train some additional skills and get access to all racial command ships you can't loose any of future racial BC V skills.
the same is for destroyers. Interdictors make it so you will HAVE TO HAVE keep Destroyer V.
|
Srioghal moDhream
B and T Inc
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 13:59:00 -
[107] - Quote
unless they change the reqs. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
94
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:22:00 -
[108] - Quote
I looked at it from a 'backwards' sort of view.
You could have all Cruiser V's and BC IV would have you 21 days away from all Command ships. After the 'update' you would need 4 times that amount, or 84 days for all Command ships
I didn't need any more research after I saw this one fact.
|
Mavnas
The Scope Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 20:20:00 -
[109] - Quote
Srioghal moDhream wrote:Why does everyone assume that if you have BC V you would receive the racial BC at V?
They only said if you could fly it before you will be able to fly it after, they said nothing about flying it at the same level.
Will there also be racial command ship skills? That would be the only reason to train BC to V, unless you are per/wil spec'd and want the possible SP to put into a skill you are not mapped to.
Same applies to destroyer, just with interdictors instead of command ships.
Yeah, but if you have three racial cruisers at V, BCs at V, and Commandships I, you can fly 3 of the four ships.
One thing I could see is giving people racial BC at the lower of their BC or Cruiser of that race. So like if you have BC V, but only have Minmatar Cruisers to V and the others at like III, then they could give you Min BC at V (keeping the min command ships), and the other racial BCs at III (keeping all the T1 BCs that you can currently fly). This is more complex logic, but it limits the size of the gift or rather limits it to people that have really gone all out.
In my case I had CS V to fly a Nighthawk then got bored with missiles, trained Gal cruiser V to see if I could make the Proteus not suck (not really), and then Min cruiser V because I wanted to play around with projectiles (My other alts do lasers already). |
Alexander Sinclair
Space Exploitation Inc Mordus Angels
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 20:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
As cool as it is to get closer the the 100 million skillpoint club, this is still (getting extra SP so I can still fly what I always could) kind of a nerf just ever so slightly in regards to the fact that more skillpoints require a more expensive spawn clone, but its not really that big of a deal or worth making a huge fuss over, in any case this is not the buff I heard some people deduce that it was. |
|
Hound Halfhand
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 01:09:00 -
[111] - Quote
Does anyone still believe they are going to make these changes? Wouldn't they seed the new racial BC and destroyer skill books?
I have had all T1 combat ships to V for awhile now so it may not affect me but some how I think this fell off CCP's drawing board and they never made it public. |
Elmanketticks
State Protectorate Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 11:28:00 -
[112] - Quote
Hound Halfhand wrote:Does anyone still believe they are going to make these changes?...
If you read carefully, you can find the following paragraph in this devblog from June 14:
Quote:As an additional note and a follow-up from our previous balancing Dev Blog, we believe it is good for you to know we will not be changing the Destroyer / Battlecruiser skills for the winter expansion GÇô such changes are to come only after these two ship classes have been properly rebalanced.
The changes are coming definately, two questions remain: when exactly (2013?) and how are they going to be implemented - which was discussed here quite thouroughly before. FOR THE STATE! |
Screenlag
Beyond The Gates Black Core Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 14:07:00 -
[113] - Quote
int/mem remapped. Plan to train them when I've remapped back to perc/will |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
61
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 22:26:00 -
[114] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Elmanketticks wrote:Dato Koppla wrote:...just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion... please elaborate on that sp giveaway. I've not yet heard of this. Nice troll attempt, but he uses the word "possible" in referring to the SP reimbursement.
I would be willing to bet money that they are not going to just grant bonus SP to everyone. I think it will probably work more like what happened when they removed learning skills. For example, rather than removing BC/Dest And replacing it with 4factional variants and giving you the SP for all factions, they will instead return your SP and let you use it to train any other skills you wish. That way if you want level V again you can just drop the returned SP into whatever faction you most desire.
|
Hound Halfhand
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:07:00 -
[115] - Quote
Elmanketticks wrote:Hound Halfhand wrote:Does anyone still believe they are going to make these changes?... If you read carefully, you can find the following paragraph in this devblog from June 14: Quote:As an additional note and a follow-up from our previous balancing Dev Blog, we believe it is good for you to know we will not be changing the Destroyer / Battlecruiser skills for the winter expansion GÇô such changes are to come only after these two ship classes have been properly rebalanced. The changes are coming definately, two questions remain: when exactly (2013?) and how are they going to be implemented - which was discussed here quite thouroughly before.
2013 Summer expansion at the earliest I guess. |
Alexander Sinclair
Space Exploitation Inc Mordus Angels
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 07:54:00 -
[116] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Elmanketticks wrote:Dato Koppla wrote:...just because of the upcoming skill split and possible HUGE sp giveaway tied to the whole "if you can fly it now, you can fly it post patch" notion... please elaborate on that sp giveaway. I've not yet heard of this. Nice troll attempt, but he uses the word "possible" in referring to the SP reimbursement. I would be willing to bet money that they are not going to just grant bonus SP to everyone. I think it will probably work more like what happened when they removed learning skills. For example, rather than removing BC/Dest And replacing it with 4factional variants and giving you the SP for all factions, they will instead return your SP and let you use it to train any other skills you wish. That way if you want level V again you can just drop the returned SP into whatever faction you most desire.
They keep saying if you could pilot it before you will be able to pilot it after the change, getting skillpoints in the 4 racials of Destroyer's and Battlecruisers is still a slight nerf do to clone costs and not really gaining anything that you didn't have before for it, but it will be horrific if I can't use the ships I already trained to use, the forums would run red with the rage of new bitter vets, given EVE's record of customer retention that isn't something to be scoffed at.
And while Yes multispecers will have more skillpoints they won't be more powerful then before, not in Bang Bang or Pew Pew, and lets not forget while Younger Player might miss out, (some older players may not get the maximum benefit) they still do get the benefit of reduced tech 2 pre-requisites, if they aren't multispec it will be even quicker to get to the one tech 2 ship you lust after, it will just be longer to multispec, and to get to interdictors you wont need frigate V or to get to command ships you wont need cruiser V. Its a shuffle for the new player. |
Lukriss
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
39
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 17:22:00 -
[117] - Quote
Why does everyone just assume that the Commandships/Dictors will require BC/Dessie V? |
Alexander Sinclair
Space Exploitation Inc Mordus Angels
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 18:22:00 -
[118] - Quote
Lukriss wrote:Why does everyone just assume that the Commandships/Dictors will require BC/Dessie V?
It probably won't but I have even a funnier thought then refunding dictors and commandships, since racial Destroyers IV will be required for racial Cruisers and racial Battlecruiser IV is required for battleship do we refund the multispecers for those skill points as well since the pessimist of the forum seem to want to believe we will just get the 1 Battlecruiser V I bet multispec Tech 2 Battleship Pilots would be pointing and laughing all the way to new level V skills.
But in any case we will get to atleast fly what we flew before so this is all a moot point. It just causes to big of a cascade to refund the skill points people would have massive amounts of unallocated skillpoints because multispecers no longer meet cruiser or battleship pre-reqs with just the skill refund without getting the Dest and BC skills up to IV. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
112
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 18:26:00 -
[119] - Quote
Lukriss wrote:Why does everyone just assume that the Commandships/Dictors will require BC/Dessie V?
because they're t2 hulls, and ccp have already said t2 hulls will require the t1 hull at V.
frig IV -> destroyers. frig V -> interceptors/AF/cov ops/electronic whatsit.
hence, destroyers V will be needed for dictors, and bc V will be needed for command ships. infact, there's a few flow chart type things ccp drew up to illustrate the ship progression stuff. |
Alexander Sinclair
Space Exploitation Inc Mordus Angels
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 18:28:00 -
[120] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Lukriss wrote:Why does everyone just assume that the Commandships/Dictors will require BC/Dessie V? because they're t2 hulls, and ccp have already said t2 hulls will require the t1 hull at V. frig IV -> destroyers. frig V -> interceptors/AF/cov ops/electronic whatsit. hence, destroyers V will be needed for dictors, and bc V will be needed for command ships. infact, there's a few flow chart type things ccp drew up to illustrate the ship progression stuff.
Hmmm you may be right but all the non Dictor and CS tech 2 hull skills weren't bound to a racial ship type, because they were made to work with all the racial hull types of the qualifying class, maybe you just need 1 racial hull to unlock the skill or something.
Edit I reread you just mean the ship reqs not the skill reqs right? |
|
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
112
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 18:35:00 -
[121] - Quote
Alexander Sinclair wrote:Dave stark wrote:Lukriss wrote:Why does everyone just assume that the Commandships/Dictors will require BC/Dessie V? because they're t2 hulls, and ccp have already said t2 hulls will require the t1 hull at V. frig IV -> destroyers. frig V -> interceptors/AF/cov ops/electronic whatsit. hence, destroyers V will be needed for dictors, and bc V will be needed for command ships. infact, there's a few flow chart type things ccp drew up to illustrate the ship progression stuff. Hmmm you may be right but all the non Dictor and CS tech 2 hull skills weren't bound to a racial ship type, because they were made to work with all the racial hull types of the qualifying class, maybe you just need 1 racial hull to unlock the skill or something.
you needed racial cruisers as a prereq to individual battle cruisers, the racial cruiser skill will be a prereq to the racial battle cruiser *skill* not the racial *ship* if that makes sense?
so where as currently for the vulture you need caldari cruisers V, in the future if ccp sticks to their plan you should only need IV (for caldari battle cruiser skill) and then caldari battle cruiser skill at V + command ships whatever level + what ever else you need for a command ship. |
Alexander Sinclair
Space Exploitation Inc Mordus Angels
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 18:47:00 -
[122] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Alexander Sinclair wrote:Dave stark wrote:Lukriss wrote:Why does everyone just assume that the Commandships/Dictors will require BC/Dessie V? because they're t2 hulls, and ccp have already said t2 hulls will require the t1 hull at V. frig IV -> destroyers. frig V -> interceptors/AF/cov ops/electronic whatsit. hence, destroyers V will be needed for dictors, and bc V will be needed for command ships. infact, there's a few flow chart type things ccp drew up to illustrate the ship progression stuff. Hmmm you may be right but all the non Dictor and CS tech 2 hull skills weren't bound to a racial ship type, because they were made to work with all the racial hull types of the qualifying class, maybe you just need 1 racial hull to unlock the skill or something. you needed racial cruisers as a prereq to individual battle cruisers, the racial cruiser skill will be a prereq to the racial battle cruiser *skill* not the racial *ship* if that makes sense? so where as currently for the vulture you need caldari cruisers V, in the future if ccp sticks to their plan you should only need IV (for caldari battle cruiser skill) and then caldari battle cruiser skill at V + command ships whatever level + what ever else you need for a command ship.
Yeah I edited my post I think you just meant the Command/Dictor Ship Requirements and not the Skillbooks themselves being split up as well.
|
Miss Hurricane
Project Maverick IMPERIAL LEGI0N
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 20:38:00 -
[123] - Quote
Will they not just remove the skill completely and reimburse you with the skillpoints that you have spent in that skill to then reallocate to which ever skill you desire like they did with the learning skill books (attribute increase skills)? |
Mavnas
The Scope Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 21:39:00 -
[124] - Quote
Miss Hurricane wrote:Will they not just remove the skill completely and reimburse you with the skillpoints that you have spent in that skill to then reallocate to which ever skill you desire like they did with the learning skill books (attribute increase skills)?
Unless the new skills are much cheaper, that would violate the if you could fly it before, you can fly it now rule. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1395
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 10:22:00 -
[125] - Quote
Already did. Even without the planned changes those two skills are boss. Don't like spaceships sandbox? then this is not the game for you. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
Elsbeth Taron
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 11:00:00 -
[126] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Elsbeth Taron wrote:How about the relevant destroyer requiring racial frigate V in order to fly it, with the destroyer skill giving extra bonuses, not much change from now? So destroyers would be T2 frigates, eh?
They DO use the same sized modules and weapons as frigates. This points to destroyers not being a separate class of ship. However, they wouldn't T2 ships, not sure how you made that connection. Just because it would require racial frigate 5 to train?
The destroyers for the four races are pretty much the same: lots of turrets and good tracking. It would make sense for there to be only one skill to train to enable flying this type of ship, rather than a racial skill for each race, unless the destroyers' capability diverge a lot more than now. |
Charlie Jacobson
23
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 07:25:00 -
[127] - Quote
How long do we have until this change hits? I'm currently on an INT/MEM remap. |
Dave stark
Perkone Caldari State
194
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 08:03:00 -
[128] - Quote
Charlie Jacobson wrote:How long do we have until this change hits? I'm currently on an INT/MEM remap.
quite a while, they want to re-balance the destroyers before they change the skills for destroyers, then they'll be doing cruisers, then battlecruisers (again, ships first then skills)
and considering we're still on frigates... i wouldn't worry too much. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
74
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 10:55:00 -
[129] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Charlie Jacobson wrote:How long do we have until this change hits? I'm currently on an INT/MEM remap. quite a while, they want to re-balance the destroyers before they change the skills for destroyers, then they'll be doing cruisers, then battlecruisers (again, ships first then skills) and considering we're still on frigates... i wouldn't worry too much.
**** it. I will play the OCD guy and train to V WHATEVER might be even REMOTELY affected by the changes to Destroyers and Battlecruisers.
Before the end of the year, I will finish training all racial frigates and cruisers to V, Interdictors V and Command Ships V, which is no small fear seeing as I never invested a single SP in any Leadership.
Until I'm done with this, screw every other training. Yes, I will train Amarr Cruiser V despite not even having Small energy turret injected (yet...).
And if it all comes to zero, I hear good things about the Sabre and the Sleipnir/Claymore and having them at V can't hurt.
|
Dave stark
Perkone Caldari State
195
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 11:55:00 -
[130] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:Dave stark wrote:Charlie Jacobson wrote:How long do we have until this change hits? I'm currently on an INT/MEM remap. quite a while, they want to re-balance the destroyers before they change the skills for destroyers, then they'll be doing cruisers, then battlecruisers (again, ships first then skills) and considering we're still on frigates... i wouldn't worry too much. **** it. I will play the OCD guy and train to V WHATEVER might be even REMOTELY affected by the changes to Destroyers and Battlecruisers. Before the end of the year, I will finish training all racial frigates and cruisers to V, Interdictors V and Command Ships V, which is no small fear seeing as I never invested a single SP in any Leadership. Until I'm done with this, screw every other training. Yes, I will train Amarr Cruiser V despite not even having Small energy turret injected (yet...). And if it all comes to zero, I hear good things about the Sabre and the Sleipnir/Claymore and having them at V can't hurt.
the joy of this game is that eventually, at some point, you'll find a use for some thing you trained eons ago without knowing why you trained it.
also on the first weekend of the alliance tournament slep/slep/scim setups were quite popular, so i'd say it never hurts to be able to fly a sleipnir. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
|
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
74
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 14:20:00 -
[131] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Darius Brinn wrote:Dave stark wrote:Charlie Jacobson wrote:How long do we have until this change hits? I'm currently on an INT/MEM remap. quite a while, they want to re-balance the destroyers before they change the skills for destroyers, then they'll be doing cruisers, then battlecruisers (again, ships first then skills) and considering we're still on frigates... i wouldn't worry too much. **** it. I will play the OCD guy and train to V WHATEVER might be even REMOTELY affected by the changes to Destroyers and Battlecruisers. Before the end of the year, I will finish training all racial frigates and cruisers to V, Interdictors V and Command Ships V, which is no small fear seeing as I never invested a single SP in any Leadership. Until I'm done with this, screw every other training. Yes, I will train Amarr Cruiser V despite not even having Small energy turret injected (yet...). And if it all comes to zero, I hear good things about the Sabre and the Sleipnir/Claymore and having them at V can't hurt. the joy of this game is that eventually, at some point, you'll find a use for some thing you trained eons ago without knowing why you trained it. also on the first weekend of the alliance tournament slep/slep/scim setups were quite popular, so i'd say it never hurts to be able to fly a sleipnir.
The Sleipnir has always been some kind of "high end" goal for this newb. A ship I've seen in action by competent pilots and which can provide a ton of fun and much utility to small gangs. So yes, flying it will be nice.
This said, I always start training things that I never use at all:
-I have Destroyers V but the only Destroyer hull I've used is the Catalyst...as a Salvager. -I am 2 days and 17 hours from HACs V (yes, stopped it before completion) and I never owned or undocked a HAC at all. -I maxed Recons V for a tackling Arazu...which I have only used to scan Ladar sites in High Sec (shame). Never used it in combat. -And as of today, I am training Caldari Frigate V. Nevermind the fact that I NEVER flew a Caldari frigate, or that I have zero plans of acquiring/flying them in the near future. It's just something you have to have, just in case I fancy a Worm or a Harpy or whatever. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
195
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 14:26:00 -
[132] - Quote
"because i can" is all the justification you need to do anything :P Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dirty Monk3y
Cataclysm Affliction
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:42:00 -
[133] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Don't forget about Jump Freighters. In theory, as tech 2 ships, the ship revamp will require having racial freighter 5 as a prereq (currently freighter 4 is required.) Assuming that CCP doesn't change their mind, anyone who can fly a jump freighter should get a free bump from racial freighter 4 to freighter 5.
so what you are saying is
Heavy Assault Cruiser, Command ships, Interdictors, Recon Ships. which all require level 4's from prereq to fly will also be taken to 5... I really think you should think before you speak. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
267
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:44:00 -
[134] - Quote
Dirty Monk3y wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Don't forget about Jump Freighters. In theory, as tech 2 ships, the ship revamp will require having racial freighter 5 as a prereq (currently freighter 4 is required.) Assuming that CCP doesn't change their mind, anyone who can fly a jump freighter should get a free bump from racial freighter 4 to freighter 5.
doubt that will happen but keep wishing
it will, ccp have said it will. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
gulftobay
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
78
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:55:00 -
[135] - Quote
"So....does everyone have Desssie/BC V"
Why yes, I do.
Now the questioin is if I should get every Strategic Cruiser.
Low self-esteem?-á Bored?-á-áLonely?-á |
stoicfaux
1329
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:15:00 -
[136] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Dirty Monk3y wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Don't forget about Jump Freighters. In theory, as tech 2 ships, the ship revamp will require having racial freighter 5 as a prereq (currently freighter 4 is required.) Assuming that CCP doesn't change their mind, anyone who can fly a jump freighter should get a free bump from racial freighter 4 to freighter 5.
doubt that will happen but keep wishing it will, ccp have said it will. oh wait, yeah needing freighter 5 will happen but being given it for free won't happen. you'll just be able to fly it without the skill. How? They either keep the pre-req at Racial Freighter IV which breaks the proposed paradigm, or they split Jump Freighters into four Racial Jump Freighter skills (which also breaks the proposed paradigm) and require Racial Freighter V just for learning the Racial Jump Freighter skill and requiring just the Racial Jump Freighter to actually fly the ship (thus letting existing pilots fly their Jump Freighters without giving them Racial Freighter V.)
Personally, I think it's a 50-50 bet between leaving the pre-req at Freighter IV or just handing out Freighter V due to the "limited" number of people that fly jump freighters.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|
Spr09
East India Ore Trade Intrepid Crossing
41
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 03:06:00 -
[137] - Quote
I fly command ships, so ofc I have BC 5.
And dessie 5 gives a pretty nice damage boost to tackle thrashers. |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
227
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 13:17:00 -
[138] - Quote
So there is still no official word on if any of the skills will be changed in the next expansion? |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
18
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 23:13:00 -
[139] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:So there is still no official word on if any of the skills will be changed in the next expansion? Really hard to find, these dev blogs, aren't they?
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72890 |
Stormmaster Neptunius
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 01:51:00 -
[140] - Quote
Interesting things! (yes, I was that slow to notice the change just now)
I had both Destroyers and Battlecruisers trained to V something like by the end of 2011 - just because I had a perfect remap for that and had been planning to train Interdictors and Command Ships eventually. But I only have two races' frigates and cruisers at Level V, and my current remap is Intelligence/Memory. So I'll wait about the other 2 races at least for now.
By the way, CCP blogs say we won't have to train extra skills to be able to fly what we can now. There was no mentioning free SP giveaway. I see it this way:
1. Players will be reimbursed any SP they had in Destroyers skill, which they will be able to allocate otherwise (to new racial destroyer skills or anything else). 2. They will be able to fly those destroyers they had been able before the change, even without training/applying SP to racial destroyers skill. 3. There will be skill-based bonuses making it unwise to fly any destroyers without actually having respective skills trained up. That would compensate for the ability to fly ships without spending SP or training skills. And not that having skill based bonuses was an unusual thing for ships to have anyway ;)
So as I see it, everyone flying a destroyer will be able to fly it further on, but to be effective virtually everyone will have to invest into respective skills.
I think it is a good idea not to rush into training all these just in a pursuit of slightly possible free SP right now (at least if you have to train on a wrong remap), but wait to see how things progress with destroyers - and then make a decision for Battlecruisers. |
|
Sun Win
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
65
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 19:59:00 -
[141] - Quote
Guys. They were very clear about this.
CCP Ytterbium wrote:SKILLS:
Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5.
I'll just paste that again in bold and underlined. having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5
Here it is again, with italics. You know, to be sure. having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5 |
Sun Win
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
65
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 20:08:00 -
[142] - Quote
And here with more details.
CCP Ytterbium wrote: Q: can we opt out for skills we don't want during the reimbursement process? A: well, again, it depends on how it is done. We may just bluntly give all four variants at V if you had battlecruiser V for example, or maybe require that you also add the relevant Cruiser skill trained at level 3 to be eligible. On the latter case, just don't train the cruiser 3 skill, and you should not receive the new racial battlecruiser at 5. Not sure why one would do that however, it's like skipping free candy or cake while visiting your grandma.
Example: If we go for option 1: you will get Amarr, Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar Battlecruiser skills at 5 if you previously had the generic Battlecruiser skill at 5. If we go for option 2: you will get Amarr Battlecruiser skill at 5 only if you previously fulfilled all conditions to fly Amarr Battlecruisers, which means having the generic Battlecruiser skill at 5, PLUS the Amarr Cruiser at 3. To remind it again, there are other options to consider, but no matter which one which choose, you won't lose anything out of the skill reimbursement plan.
Again. We may just bluntly give all four variants at V if you had battlecruiser V for example, or maybe require that you also add the relevant Cruiser skill trained at level 3 to be eligible.
|
Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.03 14:28:00 -
[143] - Quote
Interesting, but are the battlecrusiers slated for the 1.3 inferno or later?
I thought they are focusing on the mining frigate + the other frigates now and cruisers / bc are coming sometime in spring/next summer? |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page] |