Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ryoken McKeon
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 05:44:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ryoken McKeon on 30/01/2009 05:44:58 I don't personally have a huge issue with Falcons. I'm training up for one myself at the moment and will be done fairly soon, but in the interests of throwing out an idea that I haven't seen before:
Why not just nerf sensor jammers by making any one ship only able to jam 2 ships, max. That still makes falcons useful, hell, it may not even be enough to solve the 'problem' that we currently have, but it seems like a fairly cautious early solution. They'll still be useful, but they will no longer be able to totally rule mid-sized gang warfare unless half of your gang is falcons, but will still make them useful.
Thoughts? Flames? Please die you're an idiot? |
Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 06:27:00 -
[2]
I hate being jammed as much as the next guy, but I'm on the "Falcons are fine" bandwagon. Nerfing ECM nerfs more than just the Falcon, you know.
I think ECCM is what needs to be looked at. I'd suggest giving it a flat percentage chance to resist being jammed (perhaps 50/60%), stacking penalized of course, and should have a secondary effect beyond just countering ECM (to bring inline with other modules that act as e-war counters). Perhaps allowing additional targets, or faster lock speed (not as much as a sensor booster though).
|
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 06:41:00 -
[3]
The Falcon is only a "problem" because of all the following issues together:
- Falcon ECM range bonus (bigger than the Blackbird's)
- Falcon can fit covops cloak (full speed, and warp while cloaked)
- ECCM is not useful for anything else (of course, if you're trying to hide an Orca in a safespot, ECCM is actually useful to you)
- The whiners don't have a Falcon yet
There is no need to "nerf" Falcons. There is a need for people to grow past their fixation on wandering RR battleship gangs and realise that they must include a counter to the types of opposition they're expecting to face.
It's also worth noting that there are ships you can use to counter a falcon that are not actually falcons themselves, most notably a Cerberus, Raven or sniper-fit Rokh. Long range firepower is useful in most engagements, but the roving-RR gangs don't like having snipers because they're so fixated on RR gangs needing to stick within 7km of each other that anything over 8km feels like they're alone in space.
Indirectly you can use projected ECCM on any ship. Again, the roving-RR gangs don't want to do this since they feel they've already sacrificed enough with the remote rep module in a high slot. Again, the problem is that they have hogtied their brains and gotten themselves stuck in this little box that they can't conceive why anyone would fly a ship that isn't a RR-equipped short-range battleship.
Ultimately, the way to "fix" the Falcon "problem" is to get people to realise that there's more to PvP than gatecamps.
|
Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 07:49:00 -
[4]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=909164
Yeah I pretty much own |
Ryoken McKeon
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 08:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=909164
Yeah I pretty much own
Yeah, I like this better then mine. And to the above two posters, I was throwing the idea out for discussion's sake, not so much because I'm really concerned with how Falcons currently perform.
|
GI0VANNI
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 08:58:00 -
[6]
Quite frankly, why nerf it ANYWAY? I'm sick of people constantly having digs at raices and ships, it's always nerf this... nerf that... wait, I got beat by a frigate today, all frigates should be nerfed!, nope, today I got beat by a cruiser, all cruisers should be nerfed.
Why is it so hard for people to get that a specialised ship will be very good at something, some of you willl only be happy when there is only one ship in the game and we are all flying that, but even if that where to happen I'm sure you would want to nerf skills.
I have an idea, the carrier is too powerfull with it's fighters, lets change it so that the carrier can only launch small t1 drones, that should make it more even...
Stop moaning and play the game! If you don't like a ship class, either learn to fly it better than the other guy or actually go out of your own way to learn how to combat it... People have got just too F!&^%$ú"G lazy, they just want CCP to change the game to fit them.
Shut up and play the game... Stop trying to spoil it by changing ships for others.
|
Silent Sins
Deliciously Vicious
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 09:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: GI0VANNI Quite frankly, why nerf it ANYWAY? I'm sick of people constantly having digs at raices and ships, it's always nerf this... nerf that... wait, I got beat by a frigate today, all frigates should be nerfed!, nope, today I got beat by a cruiser, all cruisers should be nerfed.
Why is it so hard for people to get that a specialised ship will be very good at something, some of you willl only be happy when there is only one ship in the game and we are all flying that, but even if that where to happen I'm sure you would want to nerf skills.
I have an idea, the carrier is too powerfull with it's fighters, lets change it so that the carrier can only launch small t1 drones, that should make it more even...
Stop moaning and play the game! If you don't like a ship class, either learn to fly it better than the other guy or actually go out of your own way to learn how to combat it... People have got just too F!&^%$ú"G lazy, they just want CCP to change the game to fit them.
Shut up and play the game... Stop trying to spoil it by changing ships for others.
rageposts taste like cotton candy ------------------------------ ******************** ------------------------------ |
Ryoken McKeon
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 09:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: GI0VANNI Quite frankly, why nerf it ANYWAY? I'm sick of people constantly having digs at raices and ships, it's always nerf this... nerf that... wait, I got beat by a frigate today, all frigates should be nerfed!, nope, today I got beat by a cruiser, all cruisers should be nerfed.
Why is it so hard for people to get that a specialised ship will be very good at something, some of you willl only be happy when there is only one ship in the game and we are all flying that, but even if that where to happen I'm sure you would want to nerf skills.
I have an idea, the carrier is too powerfull with it's fighters, lets change it so that the carrier can only launch small t1 drones, that should make it more even...
Stop moaning and play the game! If you don't like a ship class, either learn to fly it better than the other guy or actually go out of your own way to learn how to combat it... People have got just too F!&^%$ú"G lazy, they just want CCP to change the game to fit them.
Shut up and play the game... Stop trying to spoil it by changing ships for others.
Did you even read the OP or the thread that came after? I think not. I've already stated that I really don't care one way or the other, and that I am not far away from the ability to fly a Falcon anyway.
|
Bastaardicious
Enrave Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 11:48:00 -
[9]
lol @ only jamming 2 ships...
|
Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 11:57:00 -
[10]
Also introduce ECCM rigs so smaller ships could also stand a chance against jamming.
|
|
Biscuit0
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 13:04:00 -
[11]
Just buff ECCM so it's not useless. |
Dahin
Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 15:00:00 -
[12]
My problem with the falcon is that it totally outshines the rook in all pvp situations. How I see it it's place should be on small roaming/recon gangs and the rest (standup fights) to the rook.
It does have to do with the cloak. At the ranges it can sit it's non-lockable from most ships so that means it can cloak and bugger off when something looks at it angrily.
Why fly covops? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0WOIwlXE9g |
GateScout
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 20:12:00 -
[13]
Edited by: GateScout on 30/01/2009 20:12:13
Originally by: Ryoken McKeon Thoughts? Flames? Please die you're an idiot?
Make the falcon and ECM modules more like other recons. As a falcon pilot, I'd love that. ...but it'll never happen.
The problem isn't the falcon...the problem is no one wants to change their preferred fitting to counter a falcon.
Hence...an endless supply of these posts.
|
Reaver Babe
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 20:36:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Reaver Babe on 30/01/2009 20:40:06 i do agree that falcons needs to be looked at, mainly because all of the proposed counters that falcon supported can come up with are ONLY VIABLE WHEN IN A GANG CONSISTING OF 15 OR MORE PEOPLE. what are the 5 or fewer roaming gangs to do? most small gang ships can't spare a mid slot for ECCM without impeding with their role, sniper battleships certainly aren't viable, and bringing a falcon of your own shouldn't have to be necessary just to counter another falcon. if the only thing in a small roaming gang that can effectively counter a falcon is another falcon, then all that means is that the falcon IS overpowered.
when you're flying around in a ship that only has 3 mids and those mids HAVE to be an MWD, web, and point or else you can't do your job in a gang, ECCM is not an option. And when you're in a group of 3-4 people in ships that only have a base sensor strength of 12, fitting ECCM won't make a damn bit of difference.
so, since all of these proposed counters are only viable in large size gangs, that says to me that the only counter to a falcon is a blob, and dont tell me that a ship that needs a blob to counter it isn't overpowered.
|
Molly Milli0ns
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 21:03:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Molly Milli0ns on 30/01/2009 21:04:27 A small gang with speed and strategy can deal with Falcons easily enough just by threatening primarily the Falcon. One person burns to the Falcon. Everyone warps to said person. Even if the gang is still permajammed, the Falcon will warp at the first opportunity.
Besides, a Falcon requires setting up. If you're getting hit by more than one of them, then you probably didn't choose the battle location. In which case, how exactly were you expecting to win in the first place? |
Drunk Driver
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 21:26:00 -
[16]
Maybe I'm missing something here, but couldn't you bring your own Falcon to the fight to jam their Falcon?
(If this is a stupid question feel free to flame away. However please let me know why it's a dumb question.)
|
Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 21:43:00 -
[17]
Combine ECCM module with Sensor boosters. Sensor Booster gives standard bonuses to sensor strength, range, and resolution. Add a ECCM script that acts like all the other scripts. Problem solved.
|
Elora Danzik
Caldari Ward-Tech Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 21:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah Combine ECCM module with Sensor boosters. Sensor Booster gives standard bonuses to sensor strength, range, and resolution. Add a ECCM script that acts like all the other scripts. Problem solved.
Best Idea I've heard yet.
|
Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 00:54:00 -
[19]
Make the jam cycle for ECM break if target lock is lost.
ECM ship does one, or more, of the following
Warp Cloak Explode Get jammed itself
In those cases the 20 second jam cycle is broken. Note, the module would still be out of use for the duration.
|
Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 11:31:00 -
[20]
why do ppl keep bringing up this on this part of the forum, the ships and modules part.
If you have an idea to change the way it works you and the other ppl who need to start a thread about this subject every other day should maybe raise the issue in the correct part of the forum.
Features and ideas discussion
Mods can't you do something about this Falcon spam ffs?
|
|
Dobkeratops
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 14:18:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Dobkeratops on 31/01/2009 14:23:33 Here's a better idea:
Instead of nerfing it, why not make other ships better?
A recurring problem is that CCP will nerf something (or a lot of somethings), which makes something else suddenly become a million times better, which they in turn need to nerf, cycle repeats. Nerfing everything is not the answer, and I can't believe anyone wants that. Instead of nerfing, give bonuses to other ships, or take away previous nerfs that were unpopular and wholly unnecessary. The asinine speed nerf, for example - which has made Minmatar, a race that was already weak and difficult to use, almost completely useless and far and away the worst race in the game; just to use them now effectively is so damn skill intensive that it's almost funny (which says a lot, as they were pretty skill intensive before). |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |