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Which Assault Frig to crosstrain for?

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Misina Arlath Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:54:00 - [1] I've always loved the small ships more than anything, so when I started fresh with my Amarr (cause I love the ships, the armor tanking and the energy weapons), I wasn't aware how utterly helpless their AF's were. As we all know (at least most of us) the Amarr AF's are completely useless in a solo role. Granted, the Retri will do great in a small gang with someone else tackling. I'm after both though, both wolfpack and solo, thus Amarr AF's (which I have skills for from Frig V and AF's anyways) are useless to me. Thus I'm going to need to crosstrain to another race, Caldari, Gallente or Minmatar. Since my skills are all focused on energy weapons, the training time needed is going to have to include Frig V and the respective weapon systems from scratch. So here's the rub - which race should I go for? Or more specific, which of the racial Assault Frigs do you feel the most success with (or least success when fighting against)? I've been looking at the Minmatar Wolf and toying alittle with it in EFT. While the damage seems great on paper, and the tank seems good, I can't help but frown at the big holes in Kin and Ex resists on the armor. Anyways, I've been looking and poking around with the ships, but theory-crafting on EFT will never give me a true picture of how they perform. Hence this request. Please share your AF experiences and help me pick, if nothing else a decent AF path, rather than being stuck with the crappy Amarr AF's. (And no, the Vengeance is NOT a good AF. The rocket bonus is crap, and unbonused missiles do better. It's only good as a pure tackler with less dps than a wet noodle. I tried it out and the ship is total failsauce.) -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!"
Camilo Cienfuegos Earned In Blood	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:57:00 - [2] Minmatar would make your Vengeance useful again (big tank + autocannons), but either them or Gallente would return you lots of solo fun. One client: Three Screens!
Min Raider	Posted - 2009.01.28 12:19:00 - [3] Your crime here is not posting in relevant section Your punishment - to fly the Vengeance for eternity
Misina Arlath Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.28 12:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Min Raider Your crime here is not posting in relevant section Looking for feedback on how people experience PvP'ing with their AF's should not be posted in C&P? Where else can you find proper feedback on just that? If I was asking for ship setups and fittings it would have landed in the Ships & Modules. When it comes to that, I'll be digging around in S&M. Anyways, still eager to hear what experience people have in PvP with, and against, AF's from Caldari, Minny and Gallente. -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!"
AntonioBanderas Amok. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.01.28 12:38:00 - [5] depending on your skills. you've said you have great armor tanking and gunnary skills, so it all boils down to this: how are your drone skills? if they're good, go gallente. Iskhkur simply pwns. if they're nto as good (and you're not planning on polishing them out), than go minpatar and spreaad the love with wolf. dont' go caldari 'cuase you'd need to learn shield tanking, and imho caldari AFs are subpar to ishkur and wolf (except maybe blarpy) __________________________________________________ I can say ASS!!! And **!!!! \o/
Misina Arlath Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.28 12:45:00 - [6] I have Drone Interfacing IV and Combat Drone Operation IV. Mainly because I've been using an Arbitrator alot lately, and been considering jumping into a Pilgrim or Curse (have skill to fly them, but not bought any yet). Drone Durability, Navigation et.c. are still somewhat in need of training though. My shield skills are low, but been considering improving them just for the slight extra buffer you get from them even though I mainly armor tank. Already maxed my armor tanking skills except Armor Compensation, so boosting shield skills is really only way to get max out of the tanking. So Ishkur or Wolf are safe bets? How about the Jaguar and Enyo? I have zero experience with these ships. -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!"
AntonioBanderas Amok. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.01.28 13:05:00 - [7] Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 28/01/2009 13:12:30 than go ishkur := blaster + drone boat. good DPS potential (for a frig size), can handle a LOT of things, even a class higher than itself (think full flight of bonused light drones). Not very tanky. Wolf is similar to retributing, but can tackle and is a bit more nimble. Crazy DPS potential and good tank __________________________________________________ I can say ASS!!! And **!!!! \o/
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.01.28 13:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Misina Arlath I have Drone Interfacing IV and Combat Drone Operation IV. Mainly because I've been using an Arbitrator alot lately, and been considering jumping into a Pilgrim or Curse (have skill to fly them, but not bought any yet). Drone Durability, Navigation et.c. are still somewhat in need of training though. My shield skills are low, but been considering improving them just for the slight extra buffer you get from them even though I mainly armor tank. Already maxed my armor tanking skills except Armor Compensation, so boosting shield skills is really only way to get max out of the tanking. So Ishkur or Wolf are safe bets? How about the Jaguar and Enyo? I have zero experience with these ships. My only assault ship love is the Ishkur and the only assault ship I'm a bit worried to engage is another Ishkur. Drone Navigation is important, drone durability for light drones not so much. My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
Silent Sins Deliciously Vicious	Posted - 2009.01.28 13:06:00 - [9] You aren't asking about Crime, nor Punishment. ------------------------------ ******************** ------------------------------
Misina Arlath Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.28 13:30:00 - [10] I'm out to committ crime. I just need advise on what tool to use for it. Seems Ishkur is a good bet. Maybe I'll just crosstrain to both :S -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!"

Nexus Kinnon Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.01.28 13:48:00 - [11] JAGUAR
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Horsemen of Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.01.28 14:17:00 - [12] Edited by: soldieroffortune 258 on 28/01/2009 14:19:44 Originally by: AntonioBanderas Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 28/01/2009 13:12:30 than go ishkur := blaster + drone boat. good DPS potential (for a frig size), can handle a LOT of things, even a class higher than itself (think full flight of bonused light drones). Not very tanky. Wolf is similar to retributing, but can tackle and is a bit more nimble. Crazy DPS potential and good tank this, i get about 215dps outta my ishkur although to be honest i havent had much time to use it to its full potential due to being super blobbed by CVA and allies CVA took my blob-ginity, no lube so, anyway, theoretically, it has a good amount of damage output, but personally, i prefer the blaster enyo myself, quick, go in, start blasting w/ guns, dont have to worry so much about drones, plus having to take them in if you have to make a quick escape, with the Ishkur, you would have to pull your drones in, + drones are more than half your damage output, and people tend to like to shoot my drones for some reason, so if i have to bail quickly, or my drones get shot, im drastically reduced in damage output Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Le Poupon Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.01.28 14:22:00 - [13] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon JAGUAR XJR? -------sig------------------------------------ Thing is I'm not acctualy an Alt Post like a butterfly Sting like a bee
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.01.28 14:38:00 - [14] Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 ...and people tend to like to shoot my drones for some reason, so if i have to bail quickly, or my drones get shot, im drastically reduced in damage output Don't be bothered about your drones being shot - when you're orbiting your target at 500 m you can almost insta-scoop and redeploy them. While your target is busy locking Warriors your blasters already start munching away his armor and you probably have not even lost your shields at that point. My opinion may or may not be shared by my alliance
VoiceInTheDesert Diplomatic Disruption Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.28 16:56:00 - [15] Edited by: VoiceInTheDesert on 28/01/2009 17:17:08 Ishkur. It's the best solo roamer of the group. Jag/Vengeance are also cool, but there's no beating the Kur's versatility with drones/good speed/tank/guns. I get about 220dps and 40 tank while perma running my AB, which ends up speed tanking anything bigger than small guns. Also, make sure you fit a 2 point scram so you can catch inty's and other faster movers. With an AB/Scram/Web, you can tackle and speed tank BC hulls and up and even some cruisers. Anything smaller than that you should be able to avoid enough of fire/rep enough to kill him with 200 dps. I am confident taking on any other AF without a second though except the Jag. The other AF's either suffer from bad layouts giving them weaknesses (not enough mids on the Retri, Wolf and Enyo for good tackle and speed mod) oruse missiles that can't hit me for good damage (vengeance, hawk). I haven't actually fought a Jag in my kur yet, but I'm looking forward to it :) Harpy is ok as well, but I don't think it can fit a good enough tank to survive the Kur's dps and fit enough tackle to get his dps on me at the same time.
Nexus Kinnon Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.01.28 17:56:00 - [16] Originally by: Le Poupon Originally by: Nexus Kinnon JAGUAR XJR? WHY NOT
Le Poupon Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.01.28 18:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Originally by: Le Poupon Originally by: Nexus Kinnon JAGUAR XJR? WHY NOT SOUNDS GOOD -------sig------------------------------------ Thing is I'm not acctualy an Alt Post like a butterfly Sting like a bee
Nexus Kinnon Genos Occidere	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Le Poupon Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Originally by: Le Poupon Originally by: Nexus Kinnon JAGUAR XJR? WHY NOT SOUNDS GOOD COOL
Vall Kor Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:44:00 - [19] Glad I'm not the only one that loves smaller ships. I am partial to the Wolf.
M'ing Pai The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2009.01.28 21:48:00 - [20] Ishkur, tbh. Blarpy is good too, if you train up some shields. There are very few ships I think twice about engaging in either, but the Ishkur is a slightly better ship because it has drones. With warrior IIs, the thing can even chase off most inties, something that is a weakness for the Blarpy. I'm not telling you how I fit them, though. You'll have great solo fun in an Ishkur. Get one. Dooooo eeet.


CCP Mitnal C C P CCP	Posted - 2009.01.29 05:03:00 - [21] Moved to Ships & Mods. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Email

Leinad tir	Posted - 2009.01.29 07:50:00 - [22] Its sad to admit but, gallente small ships are the best, taranis, iskur... i choosed minmatar for this role but i just failed :S, even the crusader is faster than the minmatar inites lol... so i must crosstrain... minmatar need a look imo.
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.01.29 07:54:00 - [23] The Ishk is currently 20m+ Most of the others are still around the 10m mark.
RayBanJockey	Posted - 2009.01.29 08:05:00 - [24] Amarr does well skillwise together with gallente more than any other race, because all gunnery skills can be recycled except the actual hybrid skill, plus all of the armor tanking skills. It'll also give you an excuse to train properly for drones :) --- RBJ
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.29 09:15:00 - [25] You have drone skills, so ishkur it shall be. Enyo is a nice brawler if you don't have a wolf. It's not so...let's say effective, but it's a fun ride when drunk and full of attitude :D
Misina Arlath Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.29 10:16:00 - [26] I already have a Crusader and Inty IV trained. But interceptors aren't the best solo ships, unless you are out on a prayer to only find lost frigates. I like the AF's since they are agile, yet hard hitting. So far I think I'm going for Minmatar, Jaguar or Wolf. Granted, Ishkur would be a good choice since I already have good drone skills, but I want something different for a change. Been flying Arbi in PvP for a long time, relying mostly on drones, so would like to get some actual gunning done :) -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!"
Leinad tir	Posted - 2009.01.29 10:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Misina Arlath I already have a Crusader and Inty IV trained. But interceptors aren't the best solo ships, unless you are out on a prayer to only find lost frigates. I like the AF's since they are agile, yet hard hitting. So far I think I'm going for Minmatar, Jaguar or Wolf. Granted, Ishkur would be a good choice since I already have good drone skills, but I want something different for a change. Been flying Arbi in PvP for a long time, relying mostly on drones, so would like to get some actual gunning done :) You are going to be pwned one time and another by iskurs without any chance of win, they are a bit less fast than you, tank a bit less and almost double you in DPS, no way... if you can choose now be wise and pick an Iskur, just my 2 cents. A Jaguar pilot.
Misina Arlath Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.29 11:52:00 - [28] Maybe I'll get blown up by an Ishkur, but honestly in this game you will get blown up someday by a ship wether you fly an Ishkur or something else. Anyways, seeing as you are a Jaguar pilot, how on earth do you fit that ship? I was toying in EFT and there wasn't a single setup I could throw around to make it any decent? I found the Wolf alot easier to fit, not to mention with a world of difference in DPS. This is how I fit the Wolf (for now): [Wolf, New Setup 1] Small Armor Repairer II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I F-M2 Weapon Inertial Suspensor Damage Control II 1MN Afterburner II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I 200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S 200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S 200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S 200mm AutoCannon II, Hail S Rocket Launcher II, Foxfire Rage Rocket Projectile Collision Accelerator I Anti-Explosive Pump I I just threw it together so far. I can fit an MWD, but need to downscale the guns to 150's then. The Anti-Ex pump I threw in cause the armor Ex resist on the Minny frigs seems like a huge hole >.< I hate holes in the armor, but maybe I'm too used to flying Amarr ships. Anyways, if there is a decent setup for a Jag, I'm eager to hear it. -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!"
Leinad tir	Posted - 2009.01.29 12:58:00 - [29] Well this is my fitting for a jaguar, is just for dogfighting against inties and AFs, thats why i prefer MWD, for me to use a AF as takler is worthless because of price, scan res, speed and agility, intis are far better for this job. For me jaguar is better than wolf because is more easy to dictate range because of his 4 mid slots, u can use hail and be sure that u will use it efectively if u can tackle the enemy. [Jaguar, jaguar] 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Stasis Webifier I Stasis Webifier I Warp Scrambler II 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Hail S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Hail S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Hail S [empty high slot] Projectile Collision Accelerator I Projectile Burst Aerator I
Pater Peccavi Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.01.29 19:31:00 - [30] Edited by: Pater Peccavi on 29/01/2009 19:34:46 I prefer the MSE Jaguar, since shields have much better resists. This is a pretty conventional Jag fit: [Jaguar, Jag 2] Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control I Medium Shield Extender II Warp Scrambler II 1MN MicroWarpdrive I Stasis Webifier II 'Malkuth' Rocket Launcher I, Phalanx Rocket 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Edit: Oh, and since you're new to AC's, don't use Hail ammo. Looks great on EFT, all that DPS, but it can't track at the range you'll be flying.



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