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Vex Cachet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.21 15:35:00 -
[1]
My wife recently was 2-boxing, mining with her Hulk and my fighter toon as escort in Hek (.05), when rats appeared. She manned my fighter and held them off but just as she finished a player showed up blinking red and he destroyed my ship while she watched, bewildered and somewhat helplessly. The guy had security status of 5.0 and she swears she did nothing to create an agression opportunity to him.
How is this possible? He hung around long enough that it's clear he wasn't going to be CONCORDED, but he said nothing, no ransom demand or anything. Just fired and destroyed the ship. Is there some kind of exploit that he used that would give him freedom to attack her even after no provocation? She didn't have any cans out and wasn't using any Smartbombs or anything obviously stupid. Any ideas what could have given him the opportunity to attack her? . . Vex & Kesha Cachet . She's the Brains - I am pure DPS. . Men do not stop playing because they grow old, they grow old because they stop playing - Oliver Wendell Holmes |
Ki Tarra
Caldari Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 15:46:00 -
[2]
You must have done something to give him the right to attack.
There is no way for us on the forums to know exactly what happened, but most likely it involved accessing a can or wreck that belonged to the attacker.
If you are not able to figure out what you did to give him the right to attack, then file a petition and a GM can review the details and provide an explination.
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Mithos Victus
Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:34:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Mithos Victus on 21/01/2009 16:35:40
I wonder, do outlaws, militia members, and players with -5.0 or lesser faction standing get CONCORD response when they agress someone in a system that they receive Navy response from? Of course, the guy was not an outlaw, but the other two scenarios might pan out.
Also, I am not aware if this is still an issue these days as I am almost never playing EVE shortly before or after DT but there used to be a problem immediately after an extended DT that CONCORD might not have spawned in your system yet, and so people could go around popping others with wild abandon and receiving no CONCORD response.
That's the only thing I can think of save filing a petition as the above poster notes. |
Kembla
Shed Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.21 17:25:00 -
[4]
The player which destroyed your ship has a habit of doing so. He has destroyed 111 ships and lost only 11.
Saying he ôshowed up blinking redö leads me to believe he laid some sort of trap. That could be any number of things your wife may have forgotten. If you really want to find out what happened, your best bet is to just kindly ask him.
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DubanFP
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:28:00 -
[5]
Edited by: DubanFP on 21/01/2009 19:30:48
Did your wife actually confirm that she was under attack and actually taking damage before she faught back? I would say there is a 99% chance that the following is what happened.
1) Your wife killed the rats 2) Other player takes from rats wreck. He appears blinking red because she has the right to attack him, but he can't shoot wife unless attacked first. 3) Wife falsely assumes that she's under attack and shoots the player. 4) Having been shot first other player is now able to shoot back, in defense. Your wife dies because SHE attacked first.
Having played EVE for nearly 3 years with excellent knowledge of the game's mechanics I can say this is probebly what happened. Even if not it's almost guarenteed that that your wife is at fault in at least some way. |
Vex Cachet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.22 07:32:00 -
[6]
I am filing a petition and seeking review. My wife is new, but reliably observant and she is clear that she took no aggressive actions against this guy. It's hard for me imagine a scenario in which she could be that wrong about such an assessment. It's possible, but in my experience unlikely.
Yes, I could just ask the guy, but I know him from RMS chat and it's evident to me (and to anyone who knows him) that the conversation won't be productive.
Kembla, how do you know who I'm talking about, is there a way to track recent attacks against an individual? Does this sound like a familiar pattern?
Thanks for the responses, guys, I'll look them over and talk with my wife more about it to see if anything resonates. Meanwhile, I will petition and see what that brings.
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RaTTuS
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.01.22 10:03:00 -
[7]
Petition will not help, you where probably can flipped and she took from his cargo - thus becoming flashy red - switch back on the warnings |
Kembla
Shed Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.22 10:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Vex Cachet Kembla, how do you know who I'm talking about, is there a way to track recent attacks against an individual?
Killboards are an excellent resource: http://www.eve-kb.com/view.php?type=player&name=Vex%20Cachet&filter=losses#show |
Salliene
Gallente Trinity Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.01.22 15:29:00 -
[9]
Get the heck out of Hek, by the way. Overpopulated systems = lots of trouble. Pirates and whatnot go where the targets are. If you are in a system with 5 people you are in a lot less danger than a system with 200.
Great place for mining is systems that don't have a station. Since there are two of you, one mines while the other hauls to a neighboring system that does have a station. Solo players won't (often) go the no-station systems to mine, so you have more asteroids to yourself.
One Girls Journey through the EVE Universe |
DubanFP
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.22 17:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vex Cachet I
Yes, I could just ask the guy, but I know him from RMS chat and it's evident to me (and to anyone who knows him) that the conversation won't be productive.
Why wouldnt you ask? In general I find pirates are actually more likely to help you out in a manner like this then a carebear. Just make it clear that you want to know what went wrong only to avoid repeating it in the future and that you aren't angry with him. You'll probebly get the answer you want as long as you're not an ass about it. _______________
Chances are I'm better then you, and I know it. Yes, I AM egocentric when it comes to this game, but if I wanted to care about others I wouldn't be playing EVE now would I. |
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Tandin
The Knights Templar Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.01.22 20:48:00 -
[11]
The other possibility is that if your character is in a player corp, you have a wardec and a war target found you.
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Ethion
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.01.23 00:05:00 -
[12]
he jetted his own can, put ur cans contents inside his and you follishly scooped what u thought was ur can... if its yellow let it mellow, if its white sccop it, aight? |
Kariel Lateef
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.23 01:17:00 -
[13]
another possibility is that he killed one of the rats and your wife snagged the loot not realizing and gave him attack rights yeah what ever |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar MasterBlasters Inc. CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2009.01.23 02:09:00 -
[14]
Or maybe you were both drunk and thought you were in 0.5 but you were in fact in 0.4...
The opposite of that happened to me once and I lost a cyclone
---------------------- Putting the sensual in nonconsensual
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Vex Cachet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.23 02:51:00 -
[15]
LOL, great suggestions, all of them.
I think it's possible that the guy flipped her can and she looted it, I don't know that she noticed that. What exactly are the conditions that would criminally flag in this case? If you loot someone else's can and then put the stuff in your own can, doesn't the person see you flash red before they've put their stuff back in your can? Doesn't his first looting flag him, and then your loot back flags you?
Is there a thread or guide somewhere that covers all of these criminal flagging contingencies?
Thanks, . . Vex & Kesha Cachet . She's the Brains - I am pure DPS. . Men do not stop playing because they grow old, they grow old because they stop playing - Oliver Wendell Holmes |
Billy Sastard
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.23 04:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Vex Cachet LOL, great suggestions, all of them.
I think it's possible that the guy flipped her can and she looted it, I don't know that she noticed that. What exactly are the conditions that would criminally flag in this case? If you loot someone else's can and then put the stuff in your own can, doesn't the person see you flash red before they've put their stuff back in your can? Doesn't his first looting flag him, and then your loot back flags you?
Is there a thread or guide somewhere that covers all of these criminal flagging contingencies?
Thanks,
The basic 'can flip' is as follows:
Miner has can of ore, Flipper approaches can, jettisons something to create their own can, then drags the miners ore to their can, thus taking ownership of the ore and giving the miner rights to shoot the flipper and causing the flipper to flash red.
Now if the miner takes his ore back, he is essentially in the same role as the flipper above, allowing the flipper rights to shoot the miner.
The flagging rules are very simple really... If you take from my can or wreck, I can shoot you. The safest route to take is, unless you are seeking a fight, don't loot yellow cans. When jetcan mining always pay attention to anyone in the belt with you, if you are paying attention it is easy to catch someone flipping your can.
All that aside, why are you jetcan mining in a hulk? You can expand the cargo space in a hulk to hold roughly half a jetcan worth of ore, so you just mine till full, dock and unload, then warp back to your bookmark in the belt and continue mining. If you must jetcan mine, do it with an active hauler in belt with you to scoop the ore from the can to the hauler as soon as you drop it in, thus denying flippers the chance to get you. Additionally, a hulk with the most basic shield skills is able to tank any high sec spawn and basic drone skills will allow you to kill the rats, so there is no real need to have a combat pilot in belt with you, so get that pilot in a hauler and mine smart |
Agent Unknown
Caldari Fist of Eargon
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Posted - 2009.01.23 19:34:00 -
[17]
Is he 5.0 sec or -5.0 sec? If he's -5.0, I believe that he would appear flashy red regardless (or if he had a skull icon).
Mind posting the killmail someplace? It'll give some more details... |
Mithos Victus
Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:09:00 -
[18]
Don't forget that drones will fire on a person who is flagged to you if that person is within their optimal, even if they are set to passive and you do not issue an attack. Much in the same way that idle rats in missions will fire on your drones even if they are not engaged or active but the drones come within a certain distance of them (I think it's less than 10km).
So, if a rat shows up in the belt, make sure you kill it quickly with your drones but then bring them back to the drone bay. A cloaker can quickly uncloak and scoop your can, and your drones fire on him without their status even changing from idle and it's game over. _______________________________________________
[...a lion lurking in the plain] |
Eschiava Q
Minmatar Blood Money Bootcamp
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Posted - 2009.01.24 02:42:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Vex Cachet LOL, great suggestions, all of them.
I think it's possible that the guy flipped her can and she looted it, I don't know that she noticed that. What exactly are the conditions that would criminally flag in this case? If you loot someone else's can and then put the stuff in your own can, doesn't the person see you flash red before they've put their stuff back in your can? Doesn't his first looting flag him, and then your loot back flags you?
Is there a thread or guide somewhere that covers all of these criminal flagging contingencies?
Thanks,
As a matter of fact, there is:
More Than You Ever Wanted To Know About Can Flipping |
Sagacious Z
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.24 03:48:00 -
[20]
What DubanFP said is highly likely.
Here is another possibility: one needs to be very careful when they click on an object in overview. You THINK you clicked on your wreck/can, however, another object appeared the split second you clicked and "jumped" your object up one or down one slot, and instead of clicking on what you thought you did, you clicked on something else that gave the right to another player to attack you.
I know--the first time I got killed happened this way.
If ever you thought, "wtf?, I know I clicked on one stargate, why did I end up here?" Well, same thing, something jumped your object and you didn't notice it but you clicked a different stargate from what you thought you did. It happens often. Sometimes it just annoys you in the case of stargates--sometimes it gets you killed in the case of belts with wrecks and cans.
If you are using a 17 inch or smaller monitor or a laptop, it will happen more often. A 22 inch or larger monitor should be used with EVE. Your game play woudl be immensely more enjoyable.
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Sagacious Z
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.24 03:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Vex Cachet I am filing a petition and seeking review.
PLEASE do not do that. The game employees get flooded with petitions that there are easy answers for--your answers are in this thread.
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Vex Cachet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.24 18:48:00 -
[22]
The guy was definitely +5.0, not -5.0.
I don't think it's likely that my wife fired on the guy intentionally, but I do think that all of the accidental scenarios are possible and even probable. Given what I know about this guy from my own observations of RMS chat and the killboards, I think it's also equally possible that he is using some kind of exploit, but we are assuming it was our own error until we learn otherwise.
I defiitely have experienced the click-on-moving-overview-object phenomenon, it's taught me to always visually confirm before and after the click. Not sure my wife has learned that lesson, it's possible she screwed up there.
Thanks for the can-flipping link, we are both studying it carefully lol.
And we decided not to file the petition after reading all the responses here. This game has unparalleled information resources, many thanks to all of you who responded, it was a great learning experience for both of us.
. . Vex & Kesha Cachet . She's the Brains - I am pure DPS. . Men do not stop playing because they grow old, they grow old because they stop playing - Oliver Wendell Holmes |
Marine HK4861
Caldari Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2009.01.25 12:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Vex Cachet I think it's also equally possible that he is using some kind of exploit, but we are assuming it was our own error until we learn otherwise.
I seriously doubt he was using an exploit. If such a can-flagging exploit existed, two things would happen:
1)Can flagging kills by throw-away accounts would sky rocket, along with the associated forum traffic of people complaining about it.
2)CCP would start banning people and patch it (or post up a news item if it wasn't a quick and easy fix).
No offense intended, but it's highly likely that your wife made an unintentional and un-noticed error. Helping people out in EVE is much like tech support: never listen to what the people SAY they are doing, but look at what they're ACTUALLY doing. |
Monkey Saturday
Fear Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.26 01:12:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Vex Cachet My wife recently was 2-boxing, mining with her Hulk and my fighter toon as escort in Hek (.05), when rats appeared.
Okay, the first thing that your wife did wrong was not use the second account to haul. If that character can fly a hulk but can't kill 0.5 rats, let alone tank them without cruiser support, then it needs some skill buffing.
Sounds to me she was canflipped while focusing on killing rats, and flipped the can back without realizing it, or the dude stole from her wreck and she agro'd first.
But hey, at least it wasn't the hulk that popped. |
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