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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2009.02.02 00:11:00 -
[331]
Originally by: TamiyaCowboy
Originally by: Rainson Arrvax I spend over an hour on a mission and then have some ass steal half the salvage. Of course...the jerkoff is in an NPC corp so I have no recourse.
Simple solution: If you're in an NPC corp taking salvage makes you attackable. If you're not then it doesn't. At least then I can wardeck you.
Because CCP would rather ignore the point put across by people like you and myself. hide behind thier own reason and feed us plenty of pony and trap.
so CCP tell us why is salvage a none hostile agro ? surely what comes from a ship is the owners, salvage is classed as loot correct? so why no agro from salvage looters.
personaly ccp cant be bothered any more look at some of the NERF'S or so called fixes they already done !!!
What 'fixes' do you think were in fact 'nerfs'?
Missiles? The way polycarbons/overdrives/nanofibers/inertia stabilisers work? Webs?
Here's a little clue (this one's free, the next one will cost you) All these things were changed back to how they used to be
That's right new kid. It's back to old-school gameplay.
Webs used to peak at 75% with the Fleeting. The T2 web simply didn't exist. Eventually people complained that they weren't slowing others down enough, so they demanded an increase to 90%. Then it was 'discovered' by these people that it was possible to reduce someone to less than 10m/s regardless of their ship speed imply by applying two webs onto the same target.
Et voila, upon the introduction of the Rapier and Huginn, getting back to docking range on a station if you were unfortunate enough to get caught became, quite literally, impossible, in many cases.
Polycarbons didn't exist way back when. In fact, a simple thing that was overlooked with their introduction was the lack of a proper stacking mechanism with regards to nanofibers and overdrives. You see, when stacking was introduced, it was meant to work on the principle that where any given module or ship attribute was being modified (by a percentage mind you, not an amount), an exponential curve to the effectiveness of each successive module would be applied.
Eventually they were able to address the fact that polycarbons, auxiliary thrusters and low-friction nozzle joints weren't playing along with the rules and fixed them.
At the same time, they also modified the bonuses of the various modules in combination so that while still worth using in certain scenarios, they were not so unbalanced as to cause major issues such as an interceptor becoming quite literally invulnerable to any single BS pilot, and having the ability to hold it in position for as long as necessary for his mates to come and kill the guy. (Unless said guy had the smarts to log off and hope he'd emergency safespot, that is)
Now interceptors are simply back where they were in the old days. Still invaluable tools, but not near-invincible ones.
Missiles' fix is also back to how they used to work. At some point it happened that there was no limit to how much effectiveness your missiles could lose based on the target's speed and signature. Now the penalties work a bit better, meaning that as long as your missiles can catch up to the target, there will be at least SOME damage inflicted.
It just happens that, unfortunately for mission runners and ratters, NPCs tend to not use MWDs and prefer using ABs instead, meaning that their speed goes up but their signature radius doesn't - making it ever so difficult for the average mission runner to keep up with the harsh penalties inflicted on their missiles these days.
But then, cruise missiles and torpedoes have little to no issue dealing with cruiser sized targets and up. It's just that they can't instagib destroyer and smaller targets as well as they used to and are forced to make use of drones now (which, you'd be surprised to know, a lot of mission runners didn't do).
So tell me, exactly what's broken where? Please give some details. ---
Incognito - Fierce - Deadly - IFD (Intergallactic Federation of Dummies) aka ATN
Ikari Dimji > I mustn't run away... I MUSTN'T RUN AWAY... I MUSTN'T RUN AWA- ooh, skittles! :D
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.02 00:13:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Jernau Riggs I rat in 00, please feel free to try and salvage my wrecks
I was down in Morsus Mihi space awhile ago doing just that in a blockade runner. It was lots of fun, but there weren't enough ratters to make it profitable where I went. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2009.02.02 00:19:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Marlenus
Originally by: Jernau Riggs I rat in 00, please feel free to try and salvage my wrecks
I was down in Morsus Mihi space awhile ago doing just that in a blockade runner. It was lots of fun, but there weren't enough ratters to make it profitable where I went.
Morsus Teehee owns space? :O
Which way? :| ---
Incognito - Fierce - Deadly - IFD (Intergallactic Federation of Dummies) aka ATN
Ikari Dimji > I mustn't run away... I MUSTN'T RUN AWAY... I MUSTN'T RUN AWA- ooh, skittles! :D
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.02 00:37:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Jernau Riggs Personally i can not think of anything more boring than mission running, I rat in 00, please feel free to try and salvage my wrecks
I'll be sure to do that when you post with your main.
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.02 01:32:00 -
[335]
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja
Morsus Teehee owns space? :O
Which way? :|
I went in through Taisy, and their name was on the sov ticker in the upper left-hand corner of my screen. As deep as I got, it stayed there.
More than that, I dunno. |
Mintoko
Gallente Nova Remnants
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Posted - 2009.02.02 01:46:00 -
[336]
Edited by: Mintoko on 02/02/2009 01:52:02
Originally by: Vaal Erit CCP is well aware of "salvage thieves" and have even replied *in this very thread* exactly what they think of them: working as intended.
You apparently did not closely read what I said, so I will repeat it. WE ARE NOT SAYING THE GAME MECHANICS ARE FLAWED! WE KNOW THEY ARE WORKING AS ORIGINALLY INTENDED. We simply think it's too easy for you to come in and swipe salvage that we had every intention of cleaning up, while we contend with the NPCs. That's leeching. Go create your own wrecks.
Some of you say that we're taking too long to run missions. What is too long anyway, 5, 10 minutes? Go do missions yourself and leave us alone. You can not only make money from the salvage (that is...if a ninja doesn't jump you), but you get bounties and the agent reward as well. YOU run a mission, YOU kill a ship and immediately salvage it while being pummeled by multiple targets. How long will you last?
Don't give me this, "Oh...well....the salvager too has invested time and ISK by finding the site in the first place..." or "Check the definition of salvage..." or "The Dev said, the Dev said!"
For those of you who like to toss out the definition of salvage as being abandoned or refused... it's not refused or abandoned if we are still in the area. I physically have to LEAVE in order for it to be abandoned.
Originally by: Vaal Erit Did you have to fight players to get your agent? How about fight players to be able to use the station? How about fight players to be able to redeem your LP?
That goes too far. Who in their right mind would consider agents, stations, & Loyalty points as resources on the same level as salvage?
Originally by: Vaal Erit You live in CONCORD protected space. If you do not wish to live by their rules, then you can leave and find other places and enforce your own rules.
- You either had a parent tell you this recently or you dished it out to your own children. I have no idea of your age.
- Again, we have someone telling us to move to lowsec or 0.0?
- Since when are CONCORD and the Devs one and the same?
Originally by: Vaal Erit What would be best is if you would stop whining and go back to wow.
Don't make assumptions. I don't play WoW due to major suckage. One of these days, you're going to complain about something and someone will likely tell YOU to shut up and go back to WoW. It's obvious you've made up your mind and stood firm on your position, so go somewhere else and leave us alone. You're not going to convince us of anything.
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Rondo Gunn
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.02 01:56:00 -
[337]
Why won't this thread die?!??
/me drives a stakes in it's heart, drags it into the sun screaming and thrashing and then bombs it from orbit...just to be sure. ----------------------------------------------- shin ku myo u
Please note: Everything I say is flavored with irony, cynicism and, of course, minty freshness. |
Mintoko
Gallente Nova Remnants
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Posted - 2009.02.02 01:59:00 -
[338]
Edited by: Mintoko on 02/02/2009 02:00:10
Originally by: Rondo Gunn Why won't this thread die?!??
/me drives a stakes in it's heart, drags it into the sun screaming and thrashing and then bombs it from orbit...just to be sure.
There have been larger threads. This one isn't even close.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.02 02:41:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Mintoko We simply think it's too easy for you to come in and swipe salvage that we had every intention of cleaning up, while we contend with the NPCs. That's leeching. Go create your own wrecks.
Why would I want to play against NPC's, when I have more fun playing against other players?
Originally by: Mintoko Go do missions yourself and leave us alone.
Not an option. I don't run Missions, and I don't care to leave you alone. (Not you personally - don't flatter yourself. Those like you, however, are fair game.
Originally by: Mintoko Don't give me this, "Oh...well....the salvager too has invested time and ISK by finding the site in the first place..." or "Check the definition of salvage..." or "The Dev said, the Dev said!"
Why not? If a Mission Runner has the right to use their skills, why don't we?
Originally by: Mintoko For those of you who like to toss out the definition of salvage as being abandoned or refused... it's not refused or abandoned if we are still in the area. I physically have to LEAVE in order for it to be abandoned.
Well, guess what. You might be right. You may not have abandoned it, but if you're not fast enough, you're damn right I'm going to get to it first. If you haven't figured out how to defend it, then that's really not my fault.
Originally by: Mintoko It's obvious you've made up your mind and stood firm on your position, so go somewhere else and leave us alone. You're not going to convince us of anything.
Leave you alone? No thanks. I'm having too much of a good time filling my ship with your tears. As for convincing you, I'm not interested.
I'm far more interested in bringing you to the brink of that spitting, swearing Mission Runner I know you are. Oh yeah, and that junk you left in that can. Yes, that stuff too.
We're Recruiting! |
AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2009.02.02 03:00:00 -
[340]
Originally by: "Mintoko" That goes too far. Who in their right mind would consider agents, stations, & Loyalty points as resources on the same level as salvage?
Well, actually, I for one consider them on the same level.
Why should a lvl4 base-quality lvl20 Administration agent send me to go fetch his cigarettes he left in his Velator on the other side of the region, even making me pay a collateral incase I don't bring them back, and giving me a measly 350lp, 103k reward and 89k bonus for my efforts, while he's giving some other guy a Angel Blockade repeatedly; disregarding the fact that this guy's only able to run the mission because his daddy (read: main) was able to put in a good word (read: do fleet missions to help grind up standings faster) for him?
Surely I worked harder, clawing my way up the ranks, spending days, if not weeks, to get to that agent? Surely I should be more worthy of the better missions?
But no, I get the blue milk runs. I can't reject them because then the agent is going to very quickly take a keen disliking to my attitude, and may stop talking to me.
I'd deal with this other pest, but unfortunately he happens to be in an NPC corp, so I'm not allowed to wardec him.
What do I do? I go run missions in low-sec where I can forcibly remove the competition if I feel they are hurting my bottom line.
Oh wait...
Originally by: "Mintoko" Some of you say that we're taking too long to run missions. What is too long anyway, 5, 10 minutes? Go do missions yourself and leave us alone. You can not only make money from the salvage (that is...if a ninja doesn't jump you), but you get bounties and the agent reward as well. YOU run a mission, YOU kill a ship and immediately salvage it while being pummeled by multiple targets. How long will you last?
Don't give me this, "Oh...well....the salvager too has invested time and ISK by finding the site in the first place..." or "Check the definition of salvage..." or "The Dev said, the Dev said!"
One salvaging fitted ishtar. One logistics. One lvl4 Angel-Blockade-Or-Similar-Mission-Of-Which-I-Know-The-Spawn-And-Aggro-Mechanics-Of-Better-Than-The-Back-Of-My-Hand-Because-Like-Many-Mission-Running-Bears-I've-Done-It-Several-Dozen-Times-Already. One endless stream of ships blowing up with me right there on the wreck to loot and salvage it.
You see, thing here is, it's just two people and things are magically ok. If you want extra tanking security you take it up to three people - two in logistics. If you want more efficiency, you put in another Ishtar for even more passive DPS and salvaging.
But you see, all of these things require that you:
a) learn to work with other people and get off your high wooden horse and realise that you are NOT alone in this game or b) suck it up and start running an alt account like so many other people do (they really are quite useful, seriously) or c) suck it up and realise that because you refuse to try a or b, you are attempting to do something that is, in fact, by design, not intended to be done 'efficiently' by a single person, and you are suffering as a direct result.
lvl3 missions? Here's a clue: you can not only tank these extremely easily (again if you know what you're doing), but because the ships in these are so weak, you can run them quite nicely with as little as 200dps or so. What does this mean? You should have a lot of slots open to fit salvagers and tractors on your ship, not to mention be able to run an afterburner nonstop.
But here's the icing on the cake: you don't use a battleship for the lvl3s.
Again. The options exist. You simply refuse to make use of them.
I will again say that I find it rather silly for NPC corpers to be able to avoid wardecs when they're 'stealing' salvage. I can, however, not see any feasible way to prevent 'salvage theft' from becoming a barring mechanic that deters people from exploring the salvage mini-profession when they start out in EVE. ---
Incognito - Fierce - Deadly - IFD (Intergallactic Federation of Dummies) aka ATN
Ikari Dimji > I mustn't run away... I MUSTN'T RUN AWAY... I MUSTN'T RUN AWA- ooh, skittles! :D
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2009.02.02 03:01:00 -
[341]
I'm beginning to wonder how many times I've sung the same song with the same melody, but different lyrics, in this single thread...
Fortunately I never tire of this song. ---
Incognito - Fierce - Deadly - IFD (Intergallactic Federation of Dummies) aka ATN
Ikari Dimji > I mustn't run away... I MUSTN'T RUN AWAY... I MUSTN'T RUN AWA- ooh, skittles! :D
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Lyris Nairn
Caldari Sexy Pirate Club
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Posted - 2009.02.02 04:13:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Becq Starforged I think that in a game in which the devs and players constantly cite 'risk v. reward' as a design consideration, it's a shame that the dregs of the galaxy are have a protected right to zero-risk income generation. No other profession in the game -- including high-sec mining, where the miner is at risk from thieves and suicide gankers -- is protected in this way. Nobody (well, nobody reasonable, at least) is asking for the mechanics to be changed to prevent salvage theft. The problem is only that the salvage thieves are invulnerable to retaliation of any sort, since they do not generate an aggression flag like can thieves do (which is odd, since wrecks replaces loot cans which did generate such flags), and the salvage thieves are generally in NPC corps and are therefore un-wardec'able.
If suicide ganking is a risk to high-security miners, how is it not a risk to ninja salvagers? Please tell me how the mission-runner is at less risk from the rats against which he is presumably tanked to minimize their damage than is the ninja salvager in his un-tanked salvage ship.
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Lyris Nairn
Caldari Sexy Pirate Club
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Posted - 2009.02.02 04:15:00 -
[343]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto It is impossible to "steal" salvage by design. It is waste that belongs to no one. You can't claim it any more than you could claim space dust.
Could you please stop breathing? That's my air you're using.
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Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.02.02 05:13:00 -
[344]
Tl;dr for thread:
"wahhh theys be stealin mah salvage" "CCP: it's not yours" "CCP is stupid, we know better than them" "durr where's the risk of salvage stealing??" "Where is the risk in mission running?" "... YOU LEECHES GO AWAY"
This thread is the cancer that is killing EVE, we must burn it and ironically execute it's supporters by pulling them apart using the tractor beams of a ninja salvaging frigate. |
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:36:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Johli This thread is the cancer that is killing EVE, we must burn it and ironically execute it's supporters by pulling them apart using the tractor beams of a ninja salvaging frigate.
Go back to /b... Oh, wait.
You said Salvaging Frigate! OMG, this is one of the first times I've ever seen anyone acknowledge the fact that a Salvage Frigate trumps all other ship choices.
+1 Internets to you, my friend.
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2009.02.02 15:59:00 -
[346]
Originally by: Johli Tl;dr for thread:
"wahhh theys be stealin mah salvage" "CCP: it's not yours" "CCP is stupid, we know better than them" "durr where's the risk of salvage stealing??" "Where is the risk in mission running?" "... YOU LEECHES GO AWAY"
This thread is the cancer that is killing EVE, we must burn it and ironically execute it's supporters by pulling them apart using the tractor beams of a ninja salvaging frigate.
Can't tractor wrecks that don't 'belong' to you because of mechanics to keep lag as low as possible. ---
Incognito - Fierce - Deadly - IFD (Intergallactic Federation of Dummies) aka ATN
Ikari Dimji > I mustn't run away... I MUSTN'T RUN AWAY... I MUSTN'T RUN AWA- ooh, skittles! :D
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.02 16:15:00 -
[347]
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja Can't tractor wrecks that don't 'belong' to you because of mechanics to keep lag as low as possible.
Damn. I was about to come in here and say, "Anony, please no more postnoughts!" and here you go and post a nice, short response.
Kudos.
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2009.02.02 16:40:00 -
[348]
If I recall, that exact response of mine is also the reason we went to war ;P
I still maintain that not all of your members are as nooby as you :3 |
Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.02.02 17:53:00 -
[349]
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja
Originally by: Johli Tl;dr for thread:
"wahhh theys be stealin mah salvage" "CCP: it's not yours" "CCP is stupid, we know better than them" "durr where's the risk of salvage stealing??" "Where is the risk in mission running?" "... YOU LEECHES GO AWAY"
This thread is the cancer that is killing EVE, we must burn it and ironically execute it's supporters by pulling them apart using the tractor beams of a ninja salvaging frigate.
Can't tractor wrecks that don't 'belong' to you because of mechanics to keep lag as low as possible.
You're a wreck?
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.02 18:32:00 -
[350]
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja I still maintain that not all of your members are as nooby as you :3
Ahem.
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Turin
Caldari Eternity INC.
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Posted - 2009.02.02 19:20:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Solomon Weyland Just blow up any wrecks they go for, all of them if necessary. Its the simple solution. You will still get the money from bounties and the mission reward itself. All they will get is wasted time and probes.
This is pretty much how I deal with it as well. Then I call them nasty names in local.
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2009.02.04 14:58:00 -
[352]
What the hell - no response in two days!?
Blasphemy. Let's keep this thread way up there where all the people that WANT to cry about ninja salvaging can cry in ONE thread instead of create a new one because they were too lazy to look three pages deep (or use the search function). ---
Incognito - Fierce - Deadly - IFD (Intergallactic Federation of Dummies) aka ATN
Ikari Dimji > I mustn't run away... I MUSTN'T RUN AWAY... I MUSTN'T RUN AWA- ooh, skittles! :D
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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.02.04 15:05:00 -
[353]
Please for the love of all that is holy and sacred stop posting in this thread. And just so anyone else that comes here knows.
Noob makes thread, people reply, CCP says their piece, noob doesn't like it and generally thinks it us a bad idea, EVE erupts, noob is silenced...THE END. count down to 90 days starts now SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Casiella Truza
White Rose Society
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Posted - 2009.02.17 19:39:00 -
[354]
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja Edited by: AnonyTerrorNinja on 04/02/2009 15:23:40 What the hell - no response in two days!?
Blasphemy. Let's keep this thread way up there where all the people that WANT to cry about ninja salvaging can cry in ONE thread instead of create a new one because they were too lazy to look three pages deep (or use the search function).
Right on.
Personally, whenever I think I can get away with it, I steal the loot, too. Because frankly, salvaging as a mini-profession doesn't pay nearly as well as some mission runners seem to think it does, mostly because of the time it takes to find a good set of wrecks. So I do introduce risk into the equation, but I manage the risk.
If you don't want me to salvage your wrecks, get into a Marauder. Generally speaking, I can't keep up with them due to their innate bonuses (though I do have fun trying).
Though I did have fun the other day with a particularly rude mission runner. --
IC Twitter |
Monikerina
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:11:00 -
[355]
Becuase the devs say so?
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:51:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Monikerina Becuase the devs say so?
No, because you Mission Runners make it too damn easy to do so. Learn your job, and our job wouldn't be as easy as it is.
We're Recruiting! |
Tybalt Usra
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Posted - 2009.02.17 21:33:00 -
[357]
Seriously it is pretty ****ing simple to work out why CCP allow salvage theft.
You are in nigh on perfect safety generating your isk. CCP add salvaging to the game and now you are generating even more isk, the trade off is that now other people can tap a small % of this isk.
You ungratefull carebears should be thankfull you get any at all. The self entitlement in this thread is staggering. You are all looking a gift horse in the mouth, if you want that salvage then bring a corpmate and get to it first. If your solo get a marauder and do it as you go.
Strewth you guys deserve every second of grief you get.
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Taylor timenenzi
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Posted - 2009.02.17 21:44:00 -
[358]
Its easy to prevent. Shoot the wrecks if you dont want them to have or move away from a mission hub.
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Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:24:00 -
[359]
I am a serious professional mission runner (SPMR) as well as a ninja salvager. As a SPMR, I know that anyone who knows what he's doing does missions in lowsec, does them quickly without relying on drones, and knows how to stay alert and protect himself.
These mission-running amateurs you find in highsec are sloppy and an offense to the profession. My goal is not to steal their salvage but to destroy them. As such, I will continue baiting them to shoot me and then warping back with a battleship to kill them. Both are actions they should be smart enough to prevent me from doing. In other words, I am assisting Darwin by culling the weak. This leads to their betterment as human beings, and perhaps helps some of them become SPMRs in time.
........... The Fighting Republicans are recruiting! |
Ron Bacardi
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:39:00 -
[360]
Damn it, I have an alt doing nothing but training right now but already has salvaging and probing trained to 4. Why didnt i think of this earlier? Thanks for the ideas guys!!!1!
Set destination: Motsu
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