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Gneeznow
Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2009.01.13 06:03:00 -
[1]
out of the last 10 engagements I've had where I've been solo, in 8 of them I've faced falcons, which means either
1) disengage if you can 2) get ganked
its getting pretty tedious at this stage, the most common ship I see while roaming is a falcon, everyone has one, and everyone uses them even when its not necessary, here is some good examples
wandering about in a brutix, seen a deimos and ishtar in a belt, couldnt find a fight after 2 hours of roaming so went for it anyway even tho it looked like a trap, land in the belt, burn for the deimos, ishtar warps in, falcon uncloaks -> permajammed -> die
docked at a station in low sec in a proph, an onyx is outside scrambling anything that undocks, it can tank the sentries with ease, as soon as aggro is got, falcon uncloakes 170 off -> jammed for 8 cycles in a row -> redock
jumped into a low sec system in a proph, mega and phobos on the gate, both aggro and chase me, it takes 5 minutes of very careful piloting to seperate them, and slowly wear down the mega's HP tank, it was a very very tricky situation trying to keep distance and --> falcon uncloaks --> jammed --> all warp off
now you see what I'm getting at, it is the anti-fun of eve, I would like to think I might have gotten a nice fight from the deimos and ishtar in my brutix, if I die so be it I just wanted a good scrap, falcon turned it into a gank, in the second situation, an impervious-from-sentries falcon can sit at an untouchable range and pretty much perma-jam me, and in the third situation, a deserved kill which needed skillful piloting was taken away because of trainer-wheels falcon alt
Falcons make pvp almost risk free in small gang / solo situations, the new agility buff makes escaping easier, the reduced power of webs make escaping easier, while I dare not say eve is dying, it certainly seems to be becoming a lot less fun for the aggressive pvp'er(s), constantly made impotent by falcons
/end ragepost |
Antraxor
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Posted - 2009.01.13 06:11:00 -
[2]
Problem is everyone who wants to solo PvP plays them.
Falcon needs to be less viable, and other solo ships more viable. T3 customization may change this... |
kessah
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.01.13 06:21:00 -
[3]
Edited by: kessah on 13/01/2009 06:25:07 Ive tried to not use a falcon, my best attempts have been active tanking and dropping cap charges mid fight to my main. Its not a solution to being jammed and because your solo ECCM just isnt really an option since ur mid slots are so packed out.
So theres the anti falcon, falcon fit... then even that would get abused.
Its really hard to play this game solo while there so abundant in combat. Your stuck to stations and gates hoping that if theres one you can tank long enough to escape, thats the only solution to them i see as a pilot that tries not using one in a jam... *bad joke... v bad joke*
I always felt that 20 seconds was rediculously long to be jammed for, be nice if they worked like ecm bursts and just forced you to relock again, that way more ecm / dampeners combinations would be used. Instead its just falcons, all the time.
Wouldnt mind there range so much then... |
RayBanJockey
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Posted - 2009.01.13 06:36:00 -
[4]
You can bicker about honour and having good wholesome pvp fights and how falcons ruin it, but the truth is people in the end only care about their own skin and will pick the absolutely best and safest tool for surviving.
If they nerf falcons (tm) people just start using what ever comes next in the flavour list. Really 100% of eve population should start flying them, would be no more whining. At elast I know I'm going to. |
Uhr Zylex
Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Blade.
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Posted - 2009.01.13 06:39:00 -
[5]
OP is right, they are the f***ing anti-fun. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:03:00 -
[6]
Meh. I've been saying this forever, and always get flamed for it. But I've given up complaining. Right now I'm busy training up my THIRD Falcon alt. You can never have too many Falcons.
Hopefully CCP will nerf them into the F#CKING GROUND, but until then, it's Falcon city. |
Kirtan Loor
Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:08:00 -
[7]
In all these cases the outcome would be more or less the same if the "other" ship was any other ship. You are trying to engage what seems to be 1 maybe 2 people. Any other ship that uncloaks while you engage them is not in your calculations and will tip the balance in the opponents favor.
But I can understand what frustates you. You would be happy to die if the "surprise" ship was another combat ship and you died while fighting back. Right now you feel like being "executed" by your opponents while your hands are tied.
Anyway It's been a while since we had a falcon rage thread. I thought people have given up on nerfing them. |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:15:00 -
[8]
Just went up against a decent sized fleet in a Kronos, Ferox and Catalyst. The targets had a Rapier, Ishtar, Devoter, Broadsword, Curse and THREE FALCONS.
With the tank both me and my corpmate had we could have probably chewed away at them, removing any real threat of DPS. It took them over 2 minutes to break the shields on the Ferox, during which time we could be smoking their fleet entirely.
Unfortunately, with 3 Falcons... bleh, I don't even feel like I need to say anymore. |
Napro
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:34:00 -
[9]
Just remove Caldari from the game entirely |
Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kirtan Loor In all these cases the outcome would be more or less the same if the "other" ship was any other ship. You are trying to engage what seems to be 1 maybe 2 people. Any other ship that uncloaks while you engage them is not in your calculations and will tip the balance in the opponents favor.
But I can understand what frustates you. You would be happy to die if the "surprise" ship was another combat ship and you died while fighting back. Right now you feel like being "executed" by your opponents while your hands are tied.
Anyway It's been a while since we had a falcon rage thread. I thought people have given up on nerfing them.
Yes a pure tank and gank game would be sooo much more fun. |
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Algey
The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:01:00 -
[11]
So when a decent pvp group have 17 falcons fielded against them they kill 12 of them, why is this... Oh yes, it's a multiplayer game.
Falcons aren't game breaking, but this is yet another whine thread by people who want to fit for close range maximum gank with no ECCM, and beat superior numbers.
I agree that there are too many falcons, but that is because gangs do not fit for range so the falcon alts can uncloak, set jams and be ignored. Try that against a gang that can shoot a decent range, and the falcon alts get farmed.
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PsychoBones Jr
THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Algey So when a decent pvp group have 17 falcons fielded against them they kill 12 of them, why is this... Oh yes, it's a multiplayer game.
Falcons aren't game breaking, but this is yet another whine thread by people who want to fit for close range maximum gank with no ECCM, and beat superior numbers.
I agree that there are too many falcons, but that is because gangs do not fit for range so the falcon alts can uncloak, set jams and be ignored. Try that against a gang that can shoot a decent range, and the falcon alts get farmed.
No, it's yet another whine thread by people who want to be able to go out with 2 or 3 friends (or solo god help us all), and actually be able to fight. Right now this isn't an option because a Falcon can easily neutralize three or even 4 ships.
Falcons in larger fights aren't as much of an issue, it's in the small gang game that Falcons are ruining it for those of us who don't want to wait for 10-15 people to x up.
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burek
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:24:00 -
[13]
You're pretty much correct. Falcon (or ecm really) is the anti fun tool.
My head starts to spin when I try to remember how many times, you end up not engaging because it's pointless. I bloody hate it. It's pretty much granted that almost no engagement will pass without a falcon appearing.
And who ever says "you can't fight multiple people at once, what does it matter that it's a falcon omg...". Maybe YOU can't. Some people do it all the time.
I have resorted to using my alt now as emergency neutral logistics to buy time when you get jammed back to the stone age. Witnessing the righteous nerd rage post fig... gank attempt, is very satisfying though.
The entire, "lol, you're jammed" mechanic is just stupid. |
Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:25:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 13/01/2009 08:28:19 I was just about to make a "I'm tired of fights being predictable because you know a falcon or 5 are going to decloak when you're outnumbered in a hostile system so please make other recons as alt-inspiring" post. Thanks for saving me the trouble :D
There's not a single other ship that: - keeps you from engaging so often - makes inferior numbers into superior force so often - makes a gang too lazy to undock because they don't have one (or 5)
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burek
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:26:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Shevar
Yes a pure tank and gank game would be sooo much more fun.
If you want to compare it to everyone jamming, it actually is more fun. |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:29:00 -
[16]
What I dislike about ECM (not Falcons, they are just the extreme symptom right now) is that this form of EWar condemns you to inactivity. If you get nossed, damped, target painted or disrupted you can still try to act against it: fly closer to get into targetting range again, maneuver to get your transversal down, use cap boosters - you still can do something.
With ECM there is nothing you can do that will increase your chance to act again, and the only thing you can do is to warp out or wait and hope that you do not die before the ECM boat misses a jam cycle.
Pretty boring in my eyes.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Major Celine
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:48:00 -
[17]
Oh, another ECM whine thread? Falcon whine? How pathetic you are, seriously |
Psiri
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:50:00 -
[18]
Nearly everything that OP's mentioned here is something that a Scorpion or even a BB could do aswell most of the time, just sit POS'ed up or in a station and warp to gang whenever they get jumped. Sure, a Falcon's better but it also costs alot more.
I see OP's point however, they simply aren't fun and are just a really easy get-out-of-jail card. |
Yakov Draken
Minmatar Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:54:00 -
[19]
Agreed. Falcons make small gang warfare happen less - get jammed and de-aggro.
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Opertone
Caldari Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:59:00 -
[20]
it's pathetic to fit ECCM, 3 of them will not be enough because falcon will jam you still.
you never expect falcon, but it always is there... cloak and ECM at 170 km is overpowered. It turns fun fights into complete fails.
Agreed, falcons take the fun of small fights out... they interfere too much. |
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Khaed Duhn
Minmatar Tannhauser Gate
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Posted - 2009.01.13 09:00:00 -
[21]
Errm if it is such a guarantee that a Falcon will turn up, then why not put together a group designed to give a Falcon pilot a headache.
And the answer isn't just ECCM, or another Falcon :-D
Oh yeah not that I'm pretending to be some PvP god here, far from it. |
Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.01.13 09:08:00 -
[22]
It's not hard to counter falcons if you have a gang together and think a little before you engage.
I'll agree that if you're soloing and a gang with a falcon drops on you - it sucks. But imagine if the falcon pilot was in any other ship worth as much in terms of ISK and SP. You'd go down even quicker. |
LadyLubU2
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.01.13 09:10:00 -
[23]
Ive been trolling for a falcon nerf for a long time now...glad to see some people have brains as well actually. |
Abduul Azeez
Caldari THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2009.01.13 09:13:00 -
[24]
Nerf Lasorz.
True story. |
Chimii Lecto
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.13 09:14:00 -
[25]
Learn to adapt or follow this link [url]http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=909164[url]
Is a pretty decent solution to the problem with taking a big bat and just start hammering on the falcon and leaving it a useless pile of junk. |
Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2009.01.13 09:15:00 -
[26]
/signed |
Suitonia
Gallente interimo
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Posted - 2009.01.13 09:17:00 -
[27]
Did the Falcon trolls even read the OP? It wasn't a whine, really. (I define a whine as complaining about a ship without looking at the counters/options, like "I got suicide ganked in a paperthin hauler with 300mil in mods in my cargo on autopilot".
I think ECM needs to be adjusted so that it is toned down vs solo/small gangs, while remaining effective and balanced as it is now in medium/large gangs. I think I posted a suggestion of making ECM always work but reducing the max locked targets to 1 rather than 0. (You'll be crippled having to relock each next target, RR battleships have to choose damage/ewar or repping gangmates (Logistics forced to unlock/relock to rep different allies etc.), Damps become more useful, ability to fight back to some extent and limited effect if you have 20 jammers piled on you or something.)
I'm sure you've probably read/ignored this already but as a mostly solo player I agree that ECCM / Snipers certainly work and are effective vs Falcons/ECM. But they are just not a viable option for small gangs/solo. Since QR Midslots have gotten even more vital with the scram changes and web strength reduction, making ECCM even harder to fit. There is just no way to fit for a Falcon when you are solo, 5 jammers vs a solo target and you're obviously jammed.
When it comes down to it I'd prefer to be ganked by 3 ships and be able to fight back and enjoy myself before my ship explodes rather than vs 2 ships + Falcon and forced to deaggro or die doing nothing. |
fivetide humidyear
Gallente EXCESS10N
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Posted - 2009.01.13 09:31:00 -
[28]
flacons are so popular because they are slightly overpowered and the easiest ship to use on a second account to support a pvp character.
i have found that having a falcon around does make it possible to engage some of the smaller blobs with a chance of getting in and out, you just have to hope their falcon isn't as good (or lucky?)as yours. |
Rennion
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Posted - 2009.01.13 09:37:00 -
[29]
Falcons make me sad :(
Whats the point of playing when playing consists of spending hours finding a fight, warp in to the fight, get jammed, twiddle thumbs, die.
This is what ****es solo/small gangers off, you spend ****ing hours finding a decent fight and then you can't actualy have that fight because you get jammed into the stoneage. |
Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2009.01.13 09:37:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 13/01/2009 09:37:56
Quote: Right now I'm busy training up my THIRD Falcon alt.
This is the crux of the issue: Those falcons are damned alts. I can't think of a single pilot I know who actively chooses to fly a falcon - it's all alternate characters. I don't know, but that gets alarm bells ringing in MY head that the ship isn't viable as a pilot's choice, but is essential at the same time?
Quote: wandering about in a brutix, seen a deimos and ishtar in a belt, couldnt find a fight after 2 hours of roaming so went for it anyway even tho it looked like a trap, land in the belt, burn for the deimos, ishtar warps in, falcon uncloaks -> permajammed -> die
The Deimos and Ishtar should be ashamed of themselves!
Quote: docked at a station in low sec in a proph, an onyx is outside scrambling anything that undocks, it can tank the sentries with ease, as soon as aggro is got, falcon uncloakes 170 off -> jammed for 8 cycles in a row -> redock
Now, be fair - the Onyx does precisely 3 damage per second.
Quote: jumped into a low sec system in a proph, mega and phobos on the gate, both aggro and chase me, it takes 5 minutes of very careful piloting to seperate them, and slowly wear down the mega's HP tank, it was a very very tricky situation trying to keep distance and --> falcon uncloaks --> jammed --> all warp off
Scratch one for the alt brigade.
20 secons cycle time is too long. ECM definitely needs rebalanced to perhaps a 5 second jam cycle? |
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