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MAX MEXX
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Posted - 2009.01.12 18:00:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Omarvelous Edited by: Omarvelous on 12/01/2009 17:52:54 If you guys want more bang for your buck for a mothership - just ask for a ccp price reduction on materials to make one.
Many of the potential buffs I see here would make them OP and greatly boost large alliances able to field them in large groups.
If it tanks a few times better than 1 carrier, or throws out 2x more fighters & has some ewar immunity that carriers don't have - maybe drop their price to 10 bil in materials?
Or you could allow motherships to use warp disruption field generators (scripted only)....
it only thorows out 5 more figthers then a carrier, since you need all the hi slots for defence.
The only imunity it has is agains jamming\web. it can be scramed and bubbled so the e-war efect is only 50% ish
a great idea is to give them t2 resistances eg on a nyx 80% kin and 70%thermal base resitance.
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Caffeine Junkie
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.01.12 18:02:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Omarvelous Edited by: Omarvelous on 12/01/2009 17:52:54 If you guys want more bang for your buck for a mothership - just ask for a ccp price reduction on materials to make one.
Many of the potential buffs I see here would make them OP and greatly boost large alliances able to field them in large groups.
If it tanks a few times better than 1 carrier, or throws out 2x more fighters & has some ewar immunity that carriers don't have - maybe drop their price to 10 bil in materials?
Or you could allow motherships to use warp disruption field generators (scripted only)....
Then there would be even less between MS and Carriers. Yes more bang for the buck, but more bang, not less buck.
There are many places in this game where battles are fought and won, EFT isn't one of them. |
Cassius Hawkeye
Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.12 18:08:00 -
[33]
The above suggestion about lowering the min cost for them is the best idea.
However - as someone else suggested - T2 Capital gear would be a start - price it accordingly to make it worth while (for example it wouldnt be worth putting t2 capital reps on a carrier unless you were stupidly rich). Of course T2 Capital gear wouldnt save a mom against a dread fleet, but gives it the ability to combat larger numbers of support without being overwhelmingly powerful.
Hit point buffer would be nice but wouldn't really be worth it.
The only other option to justify 14-15B would be to provide T2 Resists inherent in each mom - for example Nyx comes with 60% therm 75% kin res - or something similar. . At least then you have the potential to make (especially in combo with T2 capital gear) a monster to kill. This isnt making it OP - it's simply giving a 15B ship a worth while value.
Finally a variety of fighter drones are worthwhile for both carriers and moms. Carriers i'd love to see 'anti support' fighters - essentially fast maneuvering high dmging fighter drones (i guess similar to T2 Bezerkers) :/
It would be nice to see Moms able to deploy a specific anti capital set of drones (like someone described citadel top 'bomber' drones) - which would make it a strong capital killer - but it would need back up - and would always be primary anyway!. Risk and reward. The Mom always will be a primary target. But give it a bit more tanking power, and perhaps the ability to throw out a bit more anti capital stuff. Make it something to be feared on the field yet not totally invulnerable again (like 2006/7).
Just ideas to throw in the melting pot. Dont flame |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.12 18:26:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 12/01/2009 18:27:15
Originally by: Cassius Hawkeye
The only other option to justify 14-15B would be to provide T2 Resists inherent in each mom - for example Nyx comes with 60% therm 75% kin res - or something similar. . At least then you have the potential to make (especially in combo with T2 capital gear) a monster to kill. This isnt making it OP - it's simply giving a 15B ship a worth while value.
New Wyvern base resists: 0% EM, 50% EXP, 70% KIN, 80% THE. With Carrier skill at 5: 25% EM, 62.5% EXP, 77.5% KIN, 85% THE With EM hardener and 2x DG invuls: 85.7% EM, 84.2% EXP, 90.5% KIN, 93.7% THE Tank with capital shield booster and 1x gist x-type amp: 9038 DPS Tank with 2x EM hardeners, KIN hardener and 2x DG invuls: 12000DPS And even while tank isn't that important at all, RR would become lots more effective and buffer would increase vastly as well.
Oh yes, yes please |
Caffeine Junkie
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.01.12 18:54:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sokratesz Edited by: Sokratesz on 12/01/2009 18:27:15
Originally by: Cassius Hawkeye
The only other option to justify 14-15B would be to provide T2 Resists inherent in each mom - for example Nyx comes with 60% therm 75% kin res - or something similar. . At least then you have the potential to make (especially in combo with T2 capital gear) a monster to kill. This isnt making it OP - it's simply giving a 15B ship a worth while value.
New Wyvern base resists: 0% EM, 50% EXP, 70% KIN, 80% THE. With Carrier skill at 5: 25% EM, 62.5% EXP, 77.5% KIN, 85% THE With EM hardener and 2x DG invuls: 85.7% EM, 84.2% EXP, 90.5% KIN, 93.7% THE Tank with capital shield booster and 1x gist x-type amp: 9038 DPS Tank with 2x EM hardeners, KIN hardener and 2x DG invuls: 12000DPS And even while tank isn't that important at all, RR would become lots more effective and buffer would increase vastly as well.
Oh yes, yes please
I would agree that this would be nice, although I would rather see something more dramatic to change the MS from something other than a bigger tougher carrier.
The Wyvern already has a tank that puts all the others moms to shame, 12,000dps and thats before one of the spiders drops into Triage, oh yes pls :).
And while your at it, make Crystals work on caps pls :)
There are many places in this game where battles are fought and won, EFT isn't one of them. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.12 18:58:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Caffeine Junkie
I would agree that this would be nice, although I would rather see something more dramatic to change the MS from something other than a bigger tougher carrier.
The Wyvern already has a tank that puts all the others moms to shame, 12,000dps and thats before one of the spiders drops into Triage, oh yes pls :).
And while your at it, make Crystals work on caps pls :)
Well..if you fit it properly the tank drops by about 25% but that doesn't matter as it's not tank you're worried about :)
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Zurrar
Gallente Universal Exports FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.01.12 22:55:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gimora
Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 12/01/2009 15:59:13
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
They also need their model scales fixed; right now they're roughly the same size as Dreadnoughts yet they're supposedly too big to dock in stations.
I don't have numbers in front of me, but I am reasonably sure that most dreads and the Chimera will out-tank a Nyx.
This is actaly true A Chimera with t2 fitting wil tank 4,3k dps A Nyx with t2 fitting wil tank 3,3k dps!
Just to add in since you wil newer see a t2 fittet nyx i hope... A Nyx with officer\dedspace fitting will tank 4,5k dps (only 200more then a chimera with t2 fitting)
i'd have to look buy my t2 fitted chimera tanks 5.2k dps o_0 and i can perma tank (till they neut me) 3 nyx's (ive done it) but what motherships have goin for them is the massive hp buffer that carriers dont have.
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AtheistOfDoom
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Posted - 2009.01.13 00:51:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Gimora
This is actually true A Chimera with t2 fitting will tank 4,3k dps A Nyx with t2 fitting will tank 3,3k dps!
Just to add in since you will newer see a t2 fitted nyx i hope... A Nyx with officer\deadspace fitting will tank 4,5k dps (only 200more then a chimera with t2 fitting)
This kill made me sorta sad :(
I also think Motherships need a buff to make them more worth it. |
Culitza
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Posted - 2009.01.13 01:13:00 -
[39]
Carriers are carriers ... dreads are dreads... want dread weapons ? Train for a dread. Sure it'd be nice if CCP looked twice at your post and would say "Sure why didnt we think of that, let's make carriers capable of spewing out dreads". Uhm, i think not. They're fine as they are, no need to make them overpowered. Motherships on the other hand ... need something apart from the remote ecm burst and larger hp buffer to make them cost/effective. Only stupidly rich ppl buy motherships for anything else than hauling and/or POS bashing/repping in situations where they know there's no chance in hell they'll get tackled. |
loldongs III
loldongs industries
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Posted - 2009.01.13 06:45:00 -
[40]
Remove fighters and give carriers and motherships a command bonus for frigates.
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.01.13 07:36:00 -
[41]
You're an idiot. No ship is supposed to be a solo pwnmobile including carriers, and your complaint is simply that they aren't solo pwnmobiles.
Carriers are great for 4 things:
1) Remote repping pos 2) Remote repping other caps and bs 3) Dishing out very good damage with fighters ( and yes, they do hit bs hard ) 4) Hauling ships and other cargo across long distances quickly, and deploying those ships to resupply people and let them refit.
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Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:15:00 -
[42]
A lot of people who don't fly motherships (all but two?) in this thread need to shut the **** up. |
Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2009.01.13 08:33:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Viper ****zIe A lot of people who don't fly motherships (all but two?) in this thread need to shut the **** up.
My 'other' char flew one, but tbh it about killed eve for me. I'm not sure I'd fly one again, even if they were buffed. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.13 09:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Viper ****zIe A lot of people who don't fly motherships (all but two?) in this thread need to shut the **** up.
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Miss Kemtar
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Posted - 2009.01.13 11:54:00 -
[45]
First, i dont know nothing about the supercapitals so feel free to flame me...
How about making carriers and motherships unable to field normal drones? And add second size of fighters? Corvettes maybe? Corvettes would be stealth bomber type. They attack and launch their bombs/torps? After attacking they need to return to the carrier for reload?
Dreads would be capital size dps still, while carriers would be the capital support?
Motherships are something that i definately know nothing. But i guess that since people are complaining about their price, they are too expensive to field effectively in combat? And carrier can do pretty much same that MS does with 1/20 price tag. Maybe MS need completely different role than being bigger carrier/solomobile?
Make MS a carebear platform, dockable, mobile outpost...
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Caffeine Junkie
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.01.13 13:13:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Miss Kemtar
How about making carriers and motherships unable to field normal drones?
This would make it impossible for a carrier to defend itself against anything smaller than a BC. Fighters don't really track / catch anything smaller.
Originally by: Miss Kemtar
Make MS a carebear platform...
Just lol! |
loldongs III
loldongs industries
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:01:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Caffeine Junkie
Originally by: Miss Kemtar
How about making carriers and motherships unable to field normal drones?
This would make it impossible for a carrier to defend itself against anything smaller than a BC. Fighters don't really track / catch anything smaller.
Allow the fielding of regular drones but give a massive command bonus to frigates in gang with the carrier. This would be awesome beyond belief and you won't have to deal with a) warp disrupting/bubbling fighters which are supposed to have warp drives and watching them disappear b) fighters following enemies through warp c) the solo aspect of carriers (for the most part)
Motherships could receive a larger bonus than carriers. |
Chocratess
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Posted - 2009.01.14 02:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Gilgamesh1980 ... The carrier used to be insanely overpowered jsut over a year ago, where it coudl stand fights against fleets solo, so I think any change to this needs to be done very carefully
what did ccp do? i remember a blog about reducing the number of drones they could control on their own to 5 did they do that? or other stuff, or a combination |
BiggestT
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.14 04:20:00 -
[49]
Edited by: BiggestT on 14/01/2009 04:20:27 Give MS reverse cycle frigate vacuum launchers.
The launchers suck in all the idiots who brought af's and sb's to cap ops and then fire them out at a hostile cap ship. Total damage done to the hostile cap is 10*the ehp of the sucked in frigate.
Note that this pods the frigate pilot as well :)
Edit: the launcher is indiscriminate, it will suck in your useless friendly frigs aswell EVE history
t2 precisions |
nemmes
Celestial Ascension
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Posted - 2009.01.14 05:25:00 -
[50]
Yes. I believe now that you need to assign 5 fighters to a player, then launch another 5, assign again and then launch the final 5.
Am not sure. Skilling for carrier only just started. "Take me up in the arms of fate, with the strength of conviction and the hope of dreams" |
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.
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Posted - 2009.01.14 05:51:00 -
[51]
The changes to the carriers, and the introduction of the HIC, didn't do as much 'damage' to the class as the easy-access-to-dreads did. Prices on them dropped (natural development, more research, bigger market when more can fly, more competition etc), our incomes went up. And more players started to get their dread alts/mains and boom..
..well look at it, the amount of dreads available today means that any cap, be it carrier, mothership, or titan, they just melt. That's it. HIC's did have an impact on the supercap tackles but imho, while being a big factor, it's less important than the huge amounts of dreads we have availble today. |
Caffeine Junkie
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.01.14 10:24:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 14/01/2009 10:25:32
Originally by: nemmes Yes. I believe now that you need to assign 5 fighters to a player, then launch another 5, assign again and then launch the final 5.
Am not sure. Skilling for carrier only just started.
No they never implemented this.
Mainly because everyone threatened to quit if they did.
But also it would have been a bad move, carriers do not really put out huge damage anyway (roughly the same as a gank megathron), and fighters will only hit big stuff. So with smaller drones the damage is less probably that your average HAC.
EDIT: Typos
There are many places in this game where battles are fought and won, EFT isn't one of them. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.14 10:43:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 14/01/2009 10:25:32
Originally by: nemmes Yes. I believe now that you need to assign 5 fighters to a player, then launch another 5, assign again and then launch the final 5.
Am not sure. Skilling for carrier only just started.
No they never implemented this.
Mainly because everyone threatened to quit if they did.
But also it would have been a bad move, carriers do not really put out huge damage anyway (roughly the same as a gank megathron), and fighters will only hit big stuff. So with smaller drones the damage is less probably that your average HAC.
EDIT: Typos
To be honest the idea wasn't that bad as long as it got accompanied by a three fold increase in fighter damage and a ten fold HP increase, so 5 of them would indeed be more like a gang BS.
Your cap ship deserves CPR's! |
mr passie
Minmatar Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.14 12:45:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Anile8er Actually he is on to a good point.
Carrier need more options when it comes to fighters. I actually propose there be 3 classes:
Interceptor- low hp, fast (4500m/s), point/web, good tracking, very low dps.
Space superiority- similar to what is in game now.
Heavy fighter/bomber- same hp current fighters, slow (1200m/s), siege luancher torps.
this tbh |
Moonmonkey
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Posted - 2009.01.14 15:04:00 -
[55]
Leave carriers as they are and add a bank of lightmissles, a bank of 8 for normal carriers and a bank of 16 for motherships.
All carriers and motherships have +45km(flight time what ever that works out as) to light missle range per level of carrier skill.
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Caffeine Junkie
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.01.14 15:40:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Moonmonkey Leave carriers as they are and add a bank of lightmissles, a bank of 8 for normal carriers and a bank of 16 for motherships.
All carriers and motherships have +45km(flight time what ever that works out as) to light missle range per level of carrier skill.
Not sure about Carriers but motherships certainly, light missiles / flak cannons / emp pulse / 40k smartbombs whatever they are doesn't matter, just so long as its a point-defence weapon against smaller ships. |
Ryuzaki Lawliet
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Posted - 2009.01.15 03:59:00 -
[57]
Now I know that the chances of getting two of these builds to spidertank together would be rather impossible, but I put this together mostly for laughs.
Please feel free to post how it would be neigh impossible to get all of those modules and whatnot, I just made that for the heck of it.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.15 08:18:00 -
[58]
You cannot be remote repped in triage. |
Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.01.15 15:01:00 -
[59]
Utility fighters would be nice.
ECM, Neutralizer, or mining. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Ms TickleMePink
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.01.15 15:43:00 -
[60]
As I agree with the fact that all MOM's need something. I too have an alt that intended to be locked up in one of these hulls, but with current changes it just isn't viable to lose an alt to such a sub-par ship.
Shouldn't the current state of MOM's be addressed before anything else is tweaked? This is directed towards the Nyx.
As stated before with a nice dead space/officer fit you can match the t2 tank of a chimera? It's damage bonus is laughable at best. It complete inability to tank incoming DPS warrants this pony sent to the glue factory before she started the race.
The same can be said of the Thanatos in comparison to the rest of the racial carriers as well.
Hindsight... 20/20... yeah... I know. But if I could go back 3+ yrs, def'o would not have gone the Gallente capital route.
But yes, I approve of the message for showing some love to MOM's. But I think the Nyx should be addressed before any further "class wide" changes occur. If one must choose to have a character chained to a ship, perhaps it should be for a worthwhile reason?
I am not sure that increasing the stock resist to a t2 level is the answer. Most standard MS fits are pushing 10k+ dps, aside from the NYX, so this will just make 3 of 4 even more absurd on a tanking level.
Also the proposal for changing immunity to nos/nuets? Once again, just even more absurd tanking.
I would much rather see the introduction of "MS produced bridge" similar to that of the Black Ops, and Titan. Although, I can't agree with limiting hull size, except perhaps, making it sub-cap only.
I guess the real question is what type of "bang for that buck" is needed. Personally, I do not think it needs to be applied to tanking ability. The introduction of a more impressive logistcal platform would be a nice ane warranted change.
Ms. T "I'ma gonna getchu sucka!!"
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