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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 21:50:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Spaztick A bit off topic, but:
Nidhoggur, non-triage setup
2 reppers or 1 repper and another CPR? 2 smartbombs or 1 smartbomb and 1 heavy neut?
Nid has bonuses for rr so should attempt to capitalise on them..fitting same as thanatos but with 3 capital rr mods in highs, plus smartbomb and neut.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 21:58:00 -
[32]
Or, if you can be bothered to train shield skills and have a reliable fleet:
[Nidhoggur, godlike] True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II ECCM - Ladar II
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Shield Transporter I Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.06 22:14:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 06/01/2009 22:15:51
Originally by: Sokratesz Or, if you can be bothered to train shield skills and have a reliable fleet:
[Nidhoggur, godlike]
You'd have to really trust your fleet to run that setup, haha. At this point, though, wouldn't you almost be better off dropping one of the RRs, putting in a triage and replacing the sensor booster with another cap recharger? Or are the downsides of the triage still too great? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.01.07 04:20:00 -
[34]
I would try a shield-boosted setup with cap power relays (and it's actually not bad) but most people tend to armor tank their ships, so I'll armor tank my carrier.
I meant should I have two local reps or 1 local rep and another CPR? Yes in fleet fights it would be a no-brainer, but rarely will I be going against multiple cap ships with multiple carriers besides me to RR me.
As for the triage mode, you can't be RR'ed with it on, it's just like a dread in siege, so it's a bad idea on that setup. Triage I wouldn't mind using solo, especially if DPS is plenty and there's no need for my fighters. ...but on a serious note, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.07 05:09:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Letifer Deus At this point, though, wouldn't you almost be better off dropping one of the RRs, putting in a triage and replacing the sensor booster with another cap recharger? Or are the downsides of the triage still too great?
No, because what Sok is doing is maximizing RR - but also rely on friendly RR - Triage means you get no RR - which is the deal breaker.
Also, Niddy is an armor tanker. . .I am skeptical about the CPR setup even if it looks good on paper. It works for the Chimera, but forsaking at least a small personal tank (one capital repair) is quite useful. . . ----
ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense. |
Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.07 05:12:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Spaztick
As for the triage mode, you can't be RR'ed with it on,
Good point, I forgot about that. Noone I know uses them so tend to forget those things. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Rajere
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.07 08:07:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Rajere on 07/01/2009 08:07:54
Quote: This is not a true statement. If you're planning on going into cap fleet battles, it probably is, but if you are doing small scale, ~66 mil for 3x faction EANMs is more than worth it.
Nope, you're wrong. Well, it's true 99.9% of the time. 1 carrier out of a thousand who lives because they fit a faction tank where they would have died otherwise with a T2 tank sounds about right. And don't even pull out some bs about "small scale" like that magically changes what can kill capital ships, small gang pvp is all that I do. -------------------------- NOTR *nsfw* |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.07 08:53:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Rajere Edited by: Rajere on 07/01/2009 08:07:54
Quote: This is not a true statement. If you're planning on going into cap fleet battles, it probably is, but if you are doing small scale, ~66 mil for 3x faction EANMs is more than worth it.
Nope, you're wrong. Well, it's true 99.9% of the time. 1 carrier out of a thousand who lives because they fit a faction tank where they would have died otherwise with a T2 tank sounds about right. And don't even pull out some bs about "small scale" like that magically changes what can kill capital ships, small gang pvp is all that I do.
It increases your chances of survival, however slightly. Whether it is worth it ISK wise would require a thorough analysis of a few thousand carriers engagements :P There is another factor however, and it's quite a powerful one (for me at least), and that is the self-confidence acquired from flying a well-fitted ship.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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BiggestT
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.07 09:47:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Rajere Edited by: Rajere on 07/01/2009 08:07:54
Quote: This is not a true statement. If you're planning on going into cap fleet battles, it probably is, but if you are doing small scale, ~66 mil for 3x faction EANMs is more than worth it.
Nope, you're wrong. Well, it's true 99.9% of the time. 1 carrier out of a thousand who lives because they fit a faction tank where they would have died otherwise with a T2 tank sounds about right. And don't even pull out some bs about "small scale" like that magically changes what can kill capital ships, small gang pvp is all that I do.
It increases your chances of survival, however slightly. Whether it is worth it ISK wise would require a thorough analysis of a few thousand carriers engagements :P There is another factor however, and it's quite a powerful one (for me at least), and that is the self-confidence acquired from flying a well-fitted ship.
And the winner is... EVE history
t2 precisions |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.07 09:57:00 -
[40]
?
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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BiggestT
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.07 10:07:00 -
[41]
Was a compliment :P
Your post was like the final "you do it this way and not that way because.." fact needed to convince them ;) EVE history
t2 precisions |
Rajere
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.07 10:07:00 -
[42]
I think you mean over-confidence? That thing that results in carrier losses? This isn't rocket science here guys, you warp your carrier to a belt or a gate or whatever then the probability of you dying has F#ckall to do with your fit and everything to do with the size and composition of the enemy gang in relation to yours. For a Thanatos, to use an example, the only time you can actually claim that the faction tank saved you is when you are able to escape from a situation where you would have died (due to killing the enemy tacklers/slowboating out of a bubble, reinforcements arriving, etc) at 12% Structure or less. Then and only then is when having that faction tank fitted enabled you to escape where you would have otherwise died. -------------------------- NOTR *nsfw* |
BiggestT
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.07 10:12:00 -
[43]
OKAAAAY
im not getting involved then (leaves) EVE history
t2 precisions |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.07 10:14:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Rajere I think you mean over-confidence? That thing that results in carrier losses? This isn't rocket science here guys, you warp your carrier to a belt or a gate or whatever then the probability of you dying has F#ckall to do with your fit and everything to do with the size and composition of the enemy gang in relation to yours. For a Thanatos, to use an example, the only time you can actually claim that the faction tank saved you is when you are able to escape from a situation where you would have died (due to killing the enemy tacklers/slowboating out of a bubble, reinforcements arriving, etc) at 12% Structure or less. Then and only then is when having that faction tank fitted enabled you to escape where you would have otherwise died.
You are right and I wasn't trying to disprove you, fittings matter very little. But they have an added effect of aiding in morale and confidence and as any historian can tell you, those matter quite a lot :)
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Rajere
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.07 10:42:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Sokratesz You are right and I wasn't trying to disprove you, fittings matter very little. But they have an added effect of aiding in morale and confidence and as any historian can tell you, those matter quite a lot :)
It's a double edged sword :P
Maybe it's different in large fleets, or shield tanked carriers who maybe don't have as much support in said fleets as you'd like, but for small scale stuff, wasting isk on modules which have virtually no impact whatsoever on my ship is like the opposite of boosting my morale/confidence. We kill carriers pretty regularly, most t2 fit, some faction fit, some comedy fit for travel or whatev (cargo expanders and/or pure cap recharge), even some which triaged and honestly it does not matter, at all. The moment they put themselves in a situation where they could be killed, they were killed, period. No amount of isk spent on faction/deadspace/etc modules has or would have changed the outcome.
I get all the confidence I need the moment our initial tackler says "point on carrier." -------------------------- NOTR *nsfw* |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.07 10:53:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Rajere We kill carriers pretty regularly, most t2 fit, some faction fit, some comedy fit for travel or whatev (cargo expanders and/or pure cap recharge), even some which triaged and honestly it does not matter, at all. The moment they put themselves in a situation where they could be killed, they were killed, period. No amount of isk spent on faction/deadspace/etc modules has or would have changed the outcome.
With all due respect, people who do that and get caught deserve everything they get, and you just happen to be the right person at the right time to help them part from their ISK.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Indiano Arko
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.07 10:57:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sokratesz
You are right and I wasn't trying to disprove you, fittings matter very little. But they have an added effect of aiding in morale and confidence and as any historian can tell you, those matter quite a lot :)
Fittings matter is situational. It's like boolean logic - they either do matter or do not matter. Good fitting is a fitting which will matter in most of situations, but there is no silver bullet... bear it mind.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2009.01.07 11:03:00 -
[48]
Edited by: P''uck on 07/01/2009 11:02:58 Alright I just checked in EFT and it seems TS CPR gets 1% more cap recharge bonus over the plain olde t2 CPR.
Anybody care to tell me since when we have it that way? Wasnt t2 CPR 25%, too, for quite some time?
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Rajere
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.07 11:13:00 -
[49]
forever. Also the shield boost penalty comes into play on shield tanked carriers so use best named instead of t2 if you're not using faction. -------------------------- NOTR *nsfw* |
P'uck
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Posted - 2009.01.07 11:15:00 -
[50]
Yeah, the boost penalty is a given, its just the armor tanked thing on page one that got me curious. I could have sworn RMR had 25% recharging t2 CPRs.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.07 11:54:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 07/01/2009 12:01:16
Originally by: P'uck Yeah, the boost penalty is a given, its just the armor tanked thing on page one that got me curious. I could have sworn RMR had 25% recharging t2 CPRs.
I only joined after RMR so I don't know but it has been this way for at least two years now.
While the shield boost penalty is lower for best named and faction and increases gradually for better officer CPR's, its combined effect is so small that it's barely worth taking into account.
With 4x beta relays you lose 24.7% (-10% each) With 4x T2 relays you lose 26,9% (-11% each) With 4x Faction relays you lose 24.7% (-10% each) With 4x best officer relays you lose 29,06% (-12 each)
The differences are tiny at best, thanks to the stacking penalty.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Larkonis Trassler
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2009.01.07 14:20:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 07/01/2009 14:20:23 TBH if you're not going to splash out on faction for a carrier then what are you going to splash out on it for?
I don't go to town, but after spending all that cash on the skills, the hull, the capital mods and the fighters then there should be some cash left over.
30km Neut (80mil): Will deal with that lone inty who tries to lock you down if you have to jump into a system with no stations. Also that extra range is handy in engagements.
Navy EANMs (20 mil). Seriously? They are like 20 mil for an extra 12.5% over T2 a piece. I remember when T2 EANMs were that price. Yes, fitting them may not save YOU, but with your personal tank and mates remote repping you, they may enable you to last an extra 30 seconds, 1 minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever... Meaning the enemy DPS isn't on someone else, you don't have 1 less carrier in the chain and you have 1 more carrier's worth of DPS on the enemy for that little bit more time.
Faction smarties (20-100 mil): Have more range, so when you're all huddled together in a cluster RRing each other and you've got all sorts of fighters on you everyone's smartbomb has a little more coverage and a little more chance of hitting fighters on the other side of your mate, thus removing DPS from him quicker.
Calm Your Passion |
Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2009.01.07 16:45:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 07/01/2009 14:20:23 TBH if you're not going to splash out on faction for a carrier then what are you going to splash out on it for?
I don't go to town, but after spending all that cash on the skills, the hull, the capital mods and the fighters then there should be some cash left over.
30km Neut (80mil): Will deal with that lone inty who tries to lock you down if you have to jump into a system with no stations. Also that extra range is handy in engagements.
Navy EANMs (20 mil). Seriously? They are like 20 mil for an extra 12.5% over T2 a piece. I remember when T2 EANMs were that price. Yes, fitting them may not save YOU, but with your personal tank and mates remote repping you, they may enable you to last an extra 30 seconds, 1 minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever... Meaning the enemy DPS isn't on someone else, you don't have 1 less carrier in the chain and you have 1 more carrier's worth of DPS on the enemy for that little bit more time.
Faction smarties (20-100 mil): Have more range, so when you're all huddled together in a cluster RRing each other and you've got all sorts of fighters on you everyone's smartbomb has a little more coverage and a little more chance of hitting fighters on the other side of your mate, thus removing DPS from him quicker.
Fully agree with the above. Yes, I think it would be silly to core x type fit a carrier, but dropping an additional hundred mil or so to give yourself a bit more survivability makes good sense to me. Especially faction EANMs - They help your local tank, and they make RRs on you more effective, and they only cost 20 mil each. If 20 mil is a sum to be highly concerned about, you shouldn't be flying a carrier.... The faction nuet is a little more iffy, but if it picks off one inty that had a point on you from over 25.2 km, it just paid for itself many times over. Faction smarties? Never hurts... Again, run lower end faction for a bit of extra range, not officer stuff.
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