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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.04 01:24:00 -
[1]
For answers to your specific questions, see above. As a carrier pilot you should keep in mind that your job is remote-repping, anything else (damage, local tank, buffer) comes second. A good all-round thanatos fit would be this:
[Thanatos, RRpage] Capital Armor Repairer I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution ECCM - Magnetometric II
Large YF-12a Smartbomb Large YF-12a Smartbomb Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Shield Transporter I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
You can swap for faction EANM, neuts and smartbombs when your wallet allows for it to increase its general effectiveness.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:19:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Sirani
Since you seem to be the go-to guy for carriers, mind posting a good all round Chimera fit? (please)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=953702&page=1#1
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Out of curiosity, why is the standard carrier/mom rig setup not 2x CCC (T2 on mom), 1x semiconductor? It's around a 2.3% loss in cap recharge for a 15% increase in cap capacity, or 11250 cap on a thanny.
Because you want minimum recharge time and sustained recharge amount, not a temporary buffer nor minimum recharge with ****ty recharge amount. Which is why PDU's, fluxes and SMC's don't qualify.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.04 22:09:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Sokratesz
Because you want minimum recharge time and sustained recharge amount, not a temporary buffer
I'm still somewhat skeptical that an 8.5-9 cap/s. loss (equivalent to 1 small neut) is not worth 11250 in added cap capacity on a thanny.
You lose 18% recharge *time* which is a lot more valuable. In a long fight, buffer isn't 'it'. Sustained is.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.04 22:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: vostok
I guess its fine if you have other carriers there or lots of remote rep in your gang...
Solo carriers are pretty 2005 last I heard.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.05 08:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 04/01/2009 22:23:37
Originally by: Sokratesz
You lose 18% recharge *time* which is a lot more valuable. In a long fight, buffer isn't 'it'. Sustained is.
A 15% increase in capacity is equivalent to a 13% increase in recharge time. And where are you getting 18% not 15%?
Adding to cap capacity does *not* alter recharge time. Example:
100 cap/100s
add smc, 115 cap/100s. 15% increase in cap/s, no change in recharge time add ccc, 100 cap/85s. 17.6% increase in cap/s, 17.6% decrease in recharge time
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 20:04:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Modrick Would it make sense to have the two smartbomb do different type of dmg, like EMP and 2nd Thermal or something?
Any why not have two Cap armor repair in low, most build have two dont they?
You don't have the slots for it.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 20:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Raz Slicer
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Modrick Would it make sense to have the two smartbomb do different type of dmg, like EMP and 2nd Thermal or something?
Any why not have two Cap armor repair in low, most build have two dont they?
You don't have the slots for it.
I thinking get rid of one power relays for 2nd cap repper
And lose a great amount of your remote rep for a ****ty bit of local tank? You have a lot to learn.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 20:51:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 06/01/2009 20:53:08 Edited by: Sokratesz on 06/01/2009 20:52:30
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 06/01/2009 20:29:30
Originally by: Sokratesz adding to cap capacity does *not* alter recharge time.
I said equivalent. Maybe my knowledge of how the capacitors/cap recharge works is off, but I don't understand how if the cap recharge is increased by an amount, that its sustainability is affected in any way by whether it is from an increase in amount or decrease in recharge time as they both have the same recharge rate.
You get *both* an increase (and a better one so) in cap/s gain, and after you have depleted your cap to point x it will recharge 15% faster - smc's have neither of these advantages.
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Quote: add ccc, 100 cap/85s. 17.6% increase in cap/s, 17.6% decrease in recharge time
No, this is not correct. 17.6% increase in recharge rate is correct, but -15% cap recharge time does not magically turn into -17.6% cap recharge time.
You're right, but its still 100% better than an smc.
For prolonged engagements, SMC's are *never* better.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 21:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 06/01/2009 21:00:12
Originally by: Sokratesz And lose a great amount of your remote rep for a ****ty bit of local tank? You have a lot to learn.
I think it really depends on what you are doing. If you are in a fleet you are right, the extra local rep is pretty much worthless. But if you are out doing whatever with a small group, the 2nd rep could be the better choice.
A capital armour repairer reps 400 every second (skill at lvl 4), a remote armour repair system does 300/s, so its about 1.33:1 for ratio. If there is only thanatoses with one shield and one armour rep each, that means as soon as there is more than three carriers, the remote rep will outweigh your local rep. Using two local reps as starting point, that number is five. Sacrificing your second local rep so as to better aid your fleet will start paying off very quickly - but its something that many people do not understand for some reason.
How often do you see less than five carriers doing something which puts them in grave risk of being shot at? (not counting the idiots)
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 21:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Modrick
How about the idea of mixing damage types with the smartbombs?
That's a good idea, but keep in mind EM smartbombs have the best range and damage.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 21:50:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Spaztick A bit off topic, but:
Nidhoggur, non-triage setup
2 reppers or 1 repper and another CPR? 2 smartbombs or 1 smartbomb and 1 heavy neut?
Nid has bonuses for rr so should attempt to capitalise on them..fitting same as thanatos but with 3 capital rr mods in highs, plus smartbomb and neut.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 21:58:00 -
[12]
Or, if you can be bothered to train shield skills and have a reliable fleet:
[Nidhoggur, godlike] True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II ECCM - Ladar II
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Shield Transporter I Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.07 08:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rajere Edited by: Rajere on 07/01/2009 08:07:54
Quote: This is not a true statement. If you're planning on going into cap fleet battles, it probably is, but if you are doing small scale, ~66 mil for 3x faction EANMs is more than worth it.
Nope, you're wrong. Well, it's true 99.9% of the time. 1 carrier out of a thousand who lives because they fit a faction tank where they would have died otherwise with a T2 tank sounds about right. And don't even pull out some bs about "small scale" like that magically changes what can kill capital ships, small gang pvp is all that I do.
It increases your chances of survival, however slightly. Whether it is worth it ISK wise would require a thorough analysis of a few thousand carriers engagements :P There is another factor however, and it's quite a powerful one (for me at least), and that is the self-confidence acquired from flying a well-fitted ship.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.07 09:57:00 -
[14]
?
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.07 10:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rajere I think you mean over-confidence? That thing that results in carrier losses? This isn't rocket science here guys, you warp your carrier to a belt or a gate or whatever then the probability of you dying has F#ckall to do with your fit and everything to do with the size and composition of the enemy gang in relation to yours. For a Thanatos, to use an example, the only time you can actually claim that the faction tank saved you is when you are able to escape from a situation where you would have died (due to killing the enemy tacklers/slowboating out of a bubble, reinforcements arriving, etc) at 12% Structure or less. Then and only then is when having that faction tank fitted enabled you to escape where you would have otherwise died.
You are right and I wasn't trying to disprove you, fittings matter very little. But they have an added effect of aiding in morale and confidence and as any historian can tell you, those matter quite a lot :)
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.07 10:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rajere We kill carriers pretty regularly, most t2 fit, some faction fit, some comedy fit for travel or whatev (cargo expanders and/or pure cap recharge), even some which triaged and honestly it does not matter, at all. The moment they put themselves in a situation where they could be killed, they were killed, period. No amount of isk spent on faction/deadspace/etc modules has or would have changed the outcome.
With all due respect, people who do that and get caught deserve everything they get, and you just happen to be the right person at the right time to help them part from their ISK.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.07 11:54:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 07/01/2009 12:01:16
Originally by: P'uck Yeah, the boost penalty is a given, its just the armor tanked thing on page one that got me curious. I could have sworn RMR had 25% recharging t2 CPRs.
I only joined after RMR so I don't know but it has been this way for at least two years now.
While the shield boost penalty is lower for best named and faction and increases gradually for better officer CPR's, its combined effect is so small that it's barely worth taking into account.
With 4x beta relays you lose 24.7% (-10% each) With 4x T2 relays you lose 26,9% (-11% each) With 4x Faction relays you lose 24.7% (-10% each) With 4x best officer relays you lose 29,06% (-12 each)
The differences are tiny at best, thanks to the stacking penalty.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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