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Pteranodon
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Posted - 2009.01.03 23:36:00 -
[1]
I am about to fly my first cap ship the Thanatos.
Some questions
1. Shield & Armor remote repping-concentrate on one or have both?
2. High slots- smart bombs or drone link modules? is fielding more drones or fighters better?
3. A dozen fighters & hundreds of heavy tec2 & medium drones or more fighters & less normal drones or just a sensible numbers of both?
4. How do you fit your Thanatos?- faction or tec2?
5. EANM's or just tec2 passive hardeners- opinions please?
Sorry for loads of questions but the deeper I get into cap ships the more questions I seem to uncover. Thanks for any help & a Happy New year to all of you.
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yrknat
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Posted - 2009.01.03 23:42:00 -
[2]
1) Depends on your gang/what your doing. No point having armour RR when repping a POS
2) Never drone links
3) General rule is as many fighters as you can fit -1. The space left is more than enough for any other drones you bring with you.
4) Amarr navy eanms are like 20m per, so might as well. an expensive neut can be helpful as well.
5) EANMS, amarr navy style
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cynosuri
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Posted - 2009.01.03 23:44:00 -
[3]
Edited by: cynosuri on 03/01/2009 23:44:41
Originally by: Pteranodon I am about to fly my first cap ship the Thanatos.
Some questions
1. Shield & Armor remote repping-concentrate on one or have both?
2. High slots- smart bombs or drone link modules? is fielding more drones or fighters better?
3. A dozen fighters & hundreds of heavy tec2 & medium drones or more fighters & less normal drones or just a sensible numbers of both?
4. How do you fit your Thanatos?- faction or tec2?
5. EANM's or just tec2 passive hardeners- opinions please?
Sorry for loads of questions but the deeper I get into cap ships the more questions I seem to uncover. Thanks for any help & a Happy New year to all of you.
1. look at bonuses + mix 2. smartbombs primarily and just train a higher carrier skill. 3. 150% of the fighters you can field and ALOT of the other stuff. 4. tech2 - it's not worth faction stuff, as if you need to tank alot, your dead regardless of fit. 5. EANM's are great on anything :) |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.04 01:24:00 -
[4]
For answers to your specific questions, see above. As a carrier pilot you should keep in mind that your job is remote-repping, anything else (damage, local tank, buffer) comes second. A good all-round thanatos fit would be this:
[Thanatos, RRpage] Capital Armor Repairer I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution ECCM - Magnetometric II
Large YF-12a Smartbomb Large YF-12a Smartbomb Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Shield Transporter I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
You can swap for faction EANM, neuts and smartbombs when your wallet allows for it to increase its general effectiveness.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Nienna Fael
Sininen Talo
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Posted - 2009.01.04 03:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: yrknat 2) Never drone links
Emphasis on this, unless you want to end up as lolmail somewhere. For some reason the DCU x 27 failthoses tend to pop.
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Sirani
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.04 03:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sokratesz For answers to your specific questions, see above. As a carrier pilot you should keep in mind that your job is remote-repping, anything else (damage, local tank, buffer) comes second. A good all-round thanatos fit would be this:
[Thanatos, RRpage] Capital Armor Repairer I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution ECCM - Magnetometric II
Large YF-12a Smartbomb Large YF-12a Smartbomb Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Shield Transporter I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
You can swap for faction EANM, neuts and smartbombs when your wallet allows for it to increase its general effectiveness.
Since you seem to be the go-to guy for carriers, mind posting a good all round Chimera fit? (please) ------------------- |
Xiaodown
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.04 07:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sirani
Originally by: Sokratesz For answers to your specific questions, see above. As a carrier pilot you should keep in mind that your job is remote-repping, anything else (damage, local tank, buffer) comes second. A good all-round thanatos fit would be this:
[Thanatos, RRpage] Capital Armor Repairer I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution ECCM - Magnetometric II
Large YF-12a Smartbomb Large YF-12a Smartbomb Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Shield Transporter I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
You can swap for faction EANM, neuts and smartbombs when your wallet allows for it to increase its general effectiveness.
Since you seem to be the go-to guy for carriers, mind posting a good all round Chimera fit? (please)
Sok would just say:
Highs: Large YF-12a Smartbomb Large YF-12a Smartbomb Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Shield Transporter I
Mids: Cap shield repper Shield boost amp x1 3x invuln fields Sensor booster ECCM
Lows: 3x PDU 1x Damage control
Shield rigs.
(I kid, I kid, read sok's bio link. Always have heavy neut, smartbomb, cloak at least available for the highs, and then use CPR's and 2x Shield Boost Amps, with CCC's).
--
Sig under construction.
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.04 07:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 04/01/2009 07:56:00
Originally by: Nienna Fael
Originally by: yrknat 2) Never drone links
Emphasis on this, unless you want to end up as lolmail somewhere. For some reason the DCU x 27 failthoses tend to pop.
I really wish they would find a way to make drone controls a little better than laughable.
Originally by: Sokratesz
You can swap for faction EANM, neuts and smartbombs when your wallet allows for it to increase its general effectiveness.
Honestly, I would almost make AN EAMNs a must. If someone can't spare 45-50 mil for 2 faction EANMs, that should be a good sign that they can't really afford a carrier.
Out of curiosity, why is the standard carrier/mom rig setup not 2x CCC (T2 on mom), 1x semiconductor? It's around a 2.3% loss in cap recharge for a 15% increase in cap capacity, or 11250 cap on a thanny. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.04 11:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sirani
Since you seem to be the go-to guy for carriers, mind posting a good all round Chimera fit? (please)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=953702&page=1#1
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Out of curiosity, why is the standard carrier/mom rig setup not 2x CCC (T2 on mom), 1x semiconductor? It's around a 2.3% loss in cap recharge for a 15% increase in cap capacity, or 11250 cap on a thanny.
Because you want minimum recharge time and sustained recharge amount, not a temporary buffer nor minimum recharge with ****ty recharge amount. Which is why PDU's, fluxes and SMC's don't qualify.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.04 13:01:00 -
[10]
Would recommend Guristas Large Smartbombs, simply because so cheap for what they are. And TS EANM.
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.04 21:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Because you want minimum recharge time and sustained recharge amount, not a temporary buffer
I'm still somewhat skeptical that an 8.5-9 cap/s. loss (equivalent to 1 small neut) is not worth 11250 in added cap capacity on a thanny. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.04 22:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Originally by: Sokratesz
Because you want minimum recharge time and sustained recharge amount, not a temporary buffer
I'm still somewhat skeptical that an 8.5-9 cap/s. loss (equivalent to 1 small neut) is not worth 11250 in added cap capacity on a thanny.
You lose 18% recharge *time* which is a lot more valuable. In a long fight, buffer isn't 'it'. Sustained is.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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vostok
Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.01.04 22:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sokratesz For answers to your specific questions, see above. As a carrier pilot you should keep in mind that your job is remote-repping, anything else (damage, local tank, buffer) comes second. A good all-round thanatos fit would be this:
[Thanatos, RRpage] Capital Armor Repairer I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution ECCM - Magnetometric II
Large YF-12a Smartbomb Large YF-12a Smartbomb Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Shield Transporter I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
You can swap for faction EANM, neuts and smartbombs when your wallet allows for it to increase its general effectiveness.
Phew, that's not a lot of tank for a capital, if a gang called that primary it would go down pretty fast.
I guess its fine if you have other carriers there or lots of remote rep in your gang... - Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.04 22:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: vostok
I guess its fine if you have other carriers there or lots of remote rep in your gang...
Solo carriers are pretty 2005 last I heard.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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vostok
Minmatar Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.01.04 22:16:00 -
[15]
Edited by: vostok on 04/01/2009 22:17:22
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: vostok
I guess its fine if you have other carriers there or lots of remote rep in your gang...
Solo carriers are pretty 2005 last I heard.
But a carrier with a gang of sub caps? There was me thinking low sec must have mods are now cyno gens...
Edit: fail (on phone) - Adaptation is not an excuse for lack of ballance! -
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.04 22:17:00 -
[16]
On the topic of drone control unit suckage, why not do this:
change carrier +1 drone per lvl to +20% drone hp/dmg per lvl and also change carrier drone bandwidth to allow a maximum of 7 or 8 fighters (8 is probably OP). This way DCU effectiveness is doubled, but the DPS ceiling is hopefully limited to non-ridiculous levels
Moms would get +1 drone and +20% drone hp/dmg per lvl instead of the +3 drones. drone bandwidth on carriers would be adjusted to allow 15 fighters. Not that I would expect many mom pilots to fit DCUs, but it increases them from "laughably stupid" to "useful, but only in a select few situations"
Of course, dronebays would have their capacities adjusted for balancing purposes.
This reduces lag in cap fights, reduces the ISK risk in fighters and makes DCUs a non-laughable item for certain purposes. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.05 08:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 04/01/2009 22:23:37
Originally by: Sokratesz
You lose 18% recharge *time* which is a lot more valuable. In a long fight, buffer isn't 'it'. Sustained is.
A 15% increase in capacity is equivalent to a 13% increase in recharge time. And where are you getting 18% not 15%?
Adding to cap capacity does *not* alter recharge time. Example:
100 cap/100s
add smc, 115 cap/100s. 15% increase in cap/s, no change in recharge time add ccc, 100 cap/85s. 17.6% increase in cap/s, 17.6% decrease in recharge time
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Varrakk
Phantom Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.05 08:55:00 -
[18]
No, but a Semicondutor does affect optimal recharge. As a obvious drawback, it takes long to get jump ready.
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Rajere
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.05 09:02:00 -
[19]
The answer to most of your questions depends on what you are using it for.
Quote: 1. Shield & Armor remote repping-concentrate on one or have both?
1 Shield 1 Armor
Quote: 2. High slots- smart bombs or drone link modules? is fielding more drones or fighters better?
After Heavy Neuts & Remote Reps, Drone Control Modules = Hotdropping, otherwise don't fit them.
Quote: 3. A dozen fighters & hundreds of heavy tec2 & medium drones or more fighters & less normal drones or just a sensible numbers of both?
Generally 13-15 assorted fighters and the remaining drone bay is for T1 & T2 drones. Don't forget Ogre I's, they're basically free and chew through sub-caps when they decide to shoot at your fighters/T2 ogres.
Quote: 4. How do you fit your Thanatos?- faction or tec2?
T2, faction will not save you, ever.
Quote: 5. EANM's or just tec2 passive hardeners- opinions please?
Either EANMs or active Hardeners, generally EANMs.
Sorry for loads of questions but the deeper I get into cap ships the more questions I seem to uncover. Thanks for any help & a Happy New year to all of you. -------------------------- NOTR *nsfw* |
Modrick
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Posted - 2009.01.06 19:45:00 -
[20]
Would it make sense to have the two smartbomb do different type of dmg, like EMP and 2nd Thermal or something?
Any why not have two Cap armor repair in low, most build have two dont they?
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 20:04:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Modrick Would it make sense to have the two smartbomb do different type of dmg, like EMP and 2nd Thermal or something?
Any why not have two Cap armor repair in low, most build have two dont they?
You don't have the slots for it.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.06 20:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 06/01/2009 20:15:05
Originally by: Sokratesz adding to cap capacity does *not* alter recharge time.
I said equivalent. Maybe my knowledge of how the capacitors/cap recharge works is off, but I don't understand how if the cap recharge is increased by an amount, that its sustainability is affected in any way by whether it is from an increase in amount or decrease in recharge time as they both have the same recharge rate.
Quote: add ccc, 100 cap/85s. 17.6% increase in cap/s, 17.6% decrease in recharge time
No, this is not correct. 17.6% increase in recharge rate is correct, but -15% cap recharge time does not magically turn into -17.6% cap recharge time. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Raz Slicer
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Posted - 2009.01.06 20:37:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Modrick Would it make sense to have the two smartbomb do different type of dmg, like EMP and 2nd Thermal or something?
Any why not have two Cap armor repair in low, most build have two dont they?
You don't have the slots for it.
I thinking get rid of one power relays for 2nd cap repper
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 20:49:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Raz Slicer
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Modrick Would it make sense to have the two smartbomb do different type of dmg, like EMP and 2nd Thermal or something?
Any why not have two Cap armor repair in low, most build have two dont they?
You don't have the slots for it.
I thinking get rid of one power relays for 2nd cap repper
And lose a great amount of your remote rep for a ****ty bit of local tank? You have a lot to learn.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 20:51:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 06/01/2009 20:53:08 Edited by: Sokratesz on 06/01/2009 20:52:30
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 06/01/2009 20:29:30
Originally by: Sokratesz adding to cap capacity does *not* alter recharge time.
I said equivalent. Maybe my knowledge of how the capacitors/cap recharge works is off, but I don't understand how if the cap recharge is increased by an amount, that its sustainability is affected in any way by whether it is from an increase in amount or decrease in recharge time as they both have the same recharge rate.
You get *both* an increase (and a better one so) in cap/s gain, and after you have depleted your cap to point x it will recharge 15% faster - smc's have neither of these advantages.
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Quote: add ccc, 100 cap/85s. 17.6% increase in cap/s, 17.6% decrease in recharge time
No, this is not correct. 17.6% increase in recharge rate is correct, but -15% cap recharge time does not magically turn into -17.6% cap recharge time.
You're right, but its still 100% better than an smc.
For prolonged engagements, SMC's are *never* better.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Letifer Deus
A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.06 20:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sokratesz And lose a great amount of your remote rep for a ****ty bit of local tank? You have a lot to learn.
I think it really depends on what you are doing. If you are in a fleet you are right, the extra local rep is pretty much worthless. But if you are out doing whatever with a small group, the 2nd rep could be the better choice. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 21:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 06/01/2009 21:00:12
Originally by: Sokratesz And lose a great amount of your remote rep for a ****ty bit of local tank? You have a lot to learn.
I think it really depends on what you are doing. If you are in a fleet you are right, the extra local rep is pretty much worthless. But if you are out doing whatever with a small group, the 2nd rep could be the better choice.
A capital armour repairer reps 400 every second (skill at lvl 4), a remote armour repair system does 300/s, so its about 1.33:1 for ratio. If there is only thanatoses with one shield and one armour rep each, that means as soon as there is more than three carriers, the remote rep will outweigh your local rep. Using two local reps as starting point, that number is five. Sacrificing your second local rep so as to better aid your fleet will start paying off very quickly - but its something that many people do not understand for some reason.
How often do you see less than five carriers doing something which puts them in grave risk of being shot at? (not counting the idiots)
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Modrick
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Posted - 2009.01.06 21:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 06/01/2009 21:00:12
Originally by: Sokratesz And lose a great amount of your remote rep for a ****ty bit of local tank? You have a lot to learn.
I think it really depends on what you are doing. If you are in a fleet you are right, the extra local rep is pretty much worthless. But if you are out doing whatever with a small group, the 2nd rep could be the better choice.
A capital armour repairer reps 400 every second (skill at lvl 4), a remote armour repair system does 300/s, so its about 1.33:1 for ratio. If there is only thanatoses with one shield and one armour rep each, that means as soon as there is more than three carriers, the remote rep will outweigh your local rep. Using two local reps as starting point, that number is five. Sacrificing your second local rep so as to better aid your fleet will start paying off very quickly - but its something that many people do not understand for some reason.
How often do you see less than five carriers doing something which puts them in grave risk of being shot at? (not counting the idiots)
Ok, that makes sense now. Small fleet support where you only cap ship two reps, large fleet where another ship can help repair you use one.
How about the idea of mixing damage types with the smartbombs?
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.06 21:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Modrick
How about the idea of mixing damage types with the smartbombs?
That's a good idea, but keep in mind EM smartbombs have the best range and damage.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart
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Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.01.06 21:30:00 -
[30]
A bit off topic, but:
Nidhoggur, non-triage setup
2 reppers or 1 repper and another CPR? 2 smartbombs or 1 smartbomb and 1 heavy neut? ...but on a serious note, more people should have some type of spacer in their sigs to show it's not part of the post.
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