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[idea] Make Tractor beams useful in combat....

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Star Nove Minmatar Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.25 16:47:00 - [1] In pretty much every space fiction you come across, if there is reference to a tractor beam, it is used for far more exciting things than "picking loot up" How about allowing the tractor beam to affect another ship. The tractor beam to have a certain strength, linked to it's size and the stats of your own ship, and whatever you throw the tractor beam on.. This will then either move that ship, move you or both.. EG, sitting still in a battleship, if you get a tractor beam on an inty flying past you at 5km/s, it will drastically slow the inty and pull you in the direction of the interceptors travel, using some kind of mathematical formula driven from the two ships stats.. Thrust, mass, agility etc etc. The uses for this could then be huge.. A few in corp interceptors or hacs throw tractor beams onto a freighter to drag it into warp faster, a rorqual uses it's capital transporter to pull an afk hulk out of a belt.. Pirates can use it to pull an afk ship out of jump range of a gate.. invaders use it to pull capital ships out of docking range of a 0.0 station. Introduce medium and heavy tractor beams, allow capital beams onto carriers, dreads, motherships and titans too.. All with range and tractor speed modifiers..
Ivena Amethyst	Posted - 2008.12.25 17:07:00 - [2] HAHAHAHA imagine doing some afk mining and some1 just tractors you some kkm out in dead space and you come back like omfg how the hell did i get here this would be freaking hillariuous, imagine a fleet of tractor carriers(tm) used to pull the enemy ships in to range! you just sitteng there like "nah their to far away... wait what the f...! OHSH*T!!" HAHAHAHA but really you do have a point here, there 'should' be ship tractors, and the number of uses for it would be very large the coolest thing would be fitting a ship tractor on a marauder to suck in enemys to tear apart with closa range waeponary you could build you own acceleration gates with this lol, just get a few very heavy ships in a row and start catapulting smaller ships out into nowhere -------- Is that an Itty V in your pocket or ar you just happy to see me?
Star Nove Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.25 17:11:00 - [3] It would ofcourse, cause aggression, if you used it on another ship. But I'd suggest not causing it if you set your tractor beam on a stargate or station.. :-)
Biscuit0 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.26 13:42:00 - [4] I'd love to be able to pull inties into blaster range.
Terra Mikael Private Nuisance	Posted - 2008.12.27 07:32:00 - [5] I would drag random people around for hours while going afk ________________________________ Originally by: Korovyov You WIN! And by win, I mean suck horse manure.
Seiji Hannah Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.12.27 15:18:00 - [6] This would definetly be interesting if such a module was to be implemented into combat - however a massive nerf to ship abilities would have to be applied, along with a heafty capacitor cost once active to prevent exploit - like : Speed decrease : - 100% Agility decrease : - 100% Signature radius : + 100% Perhaps also scripted for "Push" and "Pull" Revamp of System Jump / Warp mechanics
Drake Draconis Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.12.27 16:55:00 - [7] That would be fun stuff.... but could lead to some issues. I'll wait for a bit first.
WheatGrass Aliastra	Posted - 2008.12.27 17:28:00 - [8] Perhaps this would be a great way for dedicated salvage ships to combat the ninja salvager threat. Call it balancing if you will. While we're at it, how about letting me stab them in the eye with my salvager module also?
Drake Draconis Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.12.27 17:39:00 - [9] Originally by: WheatGrass Perhaps this would be a great way for dedicated salvage ships to combat the ninja salvager threat. Call it balancing if you will. While we're at it, how about letting me stab them in the eye with my salvager module also? I'd prefer planting booby-traps that would cause the wrecks to blow up in there faces. : O )
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.27 17:46:00 - [10] Originally by: WheatGrass Perhaps this would be a great way for dedicated salvage ships to combat the ninja salvager threat. Call it balancing if you will. LOL. I doubt they're going to allow tractoring without the aggro mechanic being applied, so I welcome this change. Sure, let the Mission Runners tractor my ship away from their wrecks. While you're at it, give my Alliance Aggro over them, so that we can all jump in and blow up the offending ships. Originally by: Drake Draconis I'd prefer planting booby-traps that would cause the wrecks to blow up in there faces. I think this is a great idea - as long as it's implemented fairly. I'd love to plant booby-traps in a wreck field to blow up a Mission Runner when he returns to pick up what he left. We're Recruiting!

Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.27 19:29:00 - [11] I'd sign it if this also allowed ships to use tractor beams to pull themselves toward gates faster if they suddenly find themselves in a gate camp, especially since there are a lot of login traps at gates now. Gates are anchored and can't move threfore the tractor would have the effect of pulling the ship to the gate. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.12.28 01:02:00 - [12] the most reasonable change to tractor beams, without opening a can of worms, is by adding a small: 10-20% web effect.
Vivien Sureflight	Posted - 2008.12.28 03:02:00 - [13] YES! I've been trying to get this implemented for the last two years... Here's the thing, though. Tractor beams should be fundamentally different from webs. Also, there would need to be different tiers of them; a small tractor beam shouldn't be able to pull a BS. So, in a nutshell, here's what we'd be looking at: Tractor beams in general, if activated on a targeted ship, would ADD A SPEED VECTOR TO THAT SHIP IN THE DIRECTION OF THE SHIP WITH THE TRACTOR BEAM. It wouldn't slow down a ship at all (unless the target were moving away from the ship with the tractor beam), but it would make, say, an orbiting Inty pilot have to adapt his orbit path in order to keep his proper range, which would end up slowing the overall orbit. There should be another tier of tractor beams added: Large Tractor Beams. Larges whould be capable of pulling frigates while capital tractors (already in game) should be able to pull cruisers and smaller. BS should NOT be able to be pulled, as this could lead to some incredibly unfair 0.0 fights with carriers pulling snipe BSs out of formation. In any case, the speed vector added should have a magnitude of between 300-500 m/s. Alternatively, the magnitude of the beam could be based on mass. That way, a Large tractor could pull a frigate at 400m/s, a Destroyer at 200m/s, a Cruiser at 100m/s, a BC at 50m/s, etc. Tractor beams capble of pulling ships would add so much FLAVOR to combat while not being terribly overpowered. Yes, you could encounter problems with a heavy tackler BS with 4 Large Tractors, 3 webs, 2 scrams and a couple neuts, but then again, if you're going to devote that many slots to tackling, shouldn't you be really, really good at it? Anyway, this has my support. And yes, this would be similar to webbing someone as far as aggression is concerned, so miners, don't throw a fit just yet.
Star Nove Minmatar Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.12.28 11:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Dantes Revenge I'd sign it if this also allowed ships to use tractor beams to pull themselves toward gates faster if they suddenly find themselves in a gate camp, especially since there are a lot of login traps at gates now. Gates are anchored and can't move threfore the tractor would have the effect of pulling the ship to the gate. Best sign it then. Further up I suggested it not give you aggression if you targeted a gate or a station.. The fun thing here would be an inty throwing a beam on a gate and hitting full speed. Not having to worry about orbit as the tractor handles that bit. Then, when your target comes through, throw a tractor beam on him and off you go, orbiting him.. A bit like spiderman in space ;) To the other points about the tractor effects. Newton's third law should apply here. Quote: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.12.29 12:18:00 - [15] hmm, can of worms.. Imagine a BS with a tractor beam and sensor booster, just caught a hauler in low sec..it starts to tractor it from the jumping range of the gates..some lag and some other ****, and hauler is no more able to jump through.. or catching some miner in low sec belt, tractoring him for hours around while keeping point on him.. But yeah, would make nice tactics on this station huggers :) ----- TCODA corporation is recruiting! TCODA is awesome!
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.29 14:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Miss KillSome Imagine a BS with a tractor beam and sensor booster, just caught a hauler in low sec..it starts to tractor it from the jumping range of the gates..some lag and some other **, and hauler is no more able to jump through.. Great idea! Originally by:** Miss KillSome or catching some miner in low sec belt, tractoring him for hours around while keeping point on him.. Sounds good to me! (Am I missing something? Where's the downside?) Yes, I realize that you might, one day, be the 'victim' of such a play, however, both of the examples you've provided are exactly the tactics we're looking to employ! We want to stop a hauler from jumping. We want to tractor a miner off his roids. We want to hold things for as long as possible, and ransom or kill them. We're Recruiting!
JVol Amarr The IMorral MAjority	Posted - 2008.12.29 16:12:00 - [17] Edited by: JVol on 29/12/2008 16:14:22 I still love this idea, I posted the same thing about 2 years ago only as a counter to nanos. Needless to say, nano pilots were about as happy about the idea as that hauler pilot getting sucked off the gate was..lol I also brought it up at a round table @ fanfest o7.. The devs werent keen on it either, they just didnt get the combat properties a tractor beam has. nuttin but funny faces and a quick move to the next topic, ambulation....uuuuggg
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.12.29 17:40:00 - [18] Amusing, but not even slightly reasonable. - Lottery - Golem! Cruiser BPC Store
Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.29 17:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Amusing, but not even slightly reasonable. You forgot "IMHO". Beyond that, why do you feel it's unreasonable? Sci-fi movies have been doing it for years. We're Recruiting!
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2008.12.29 18:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Amusing, but not even slightly reasonable. You forgot "IMHO". Beyond that, why do you feel it's unreasonable? Sci-fi movies have been doing it for years. I believe he said "Slightly Reasonable" as opposed to unreasonable. As to why... I would venture a guess as to this would open a can of worms of issues as far as exploitation/abuse and other fun little loop holes that people love to exploit. While there are many good things about the idea... there could be too many bad things about it. Hence why I did not give my support.... I'm still waiting for the last 'push' over the edge in either direciton. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============

Tchell Dahhn Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.29 19:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Drake Draconis I believe he said "Slightly Reasonable" as opposed to unreasonable. Actually, he said "not even slightly reasonable" which is "unreasonable" in my book. Originally by: Drake Draconis As to why... I would venture a guess as to this would open a can of worms of issues as far as exploitation/abuse and other fun little loop holes that people love to exploit. This is where I tend to agree, since I would think that the use of a tractor beam on other ships would obviously be the same as using a web, point (etc.) and give aggro. (Hey, if it didn't, I wouldn't give my support. Can you imagine all the complaints you'd get if we could suddenly tractor people in Empire with no repercussions? Funny, but 100% imbalanced, imho.) Originally by: Drake Draconis While there are many good things about the idea... there could be too many bad things about it. It's all about balance. I don't believe the OP is recommending we just let anyone start tractoring without some form of aggro. That would just be stupid. Originally by: Drake Draconis Hence why I did not give my support.... I'm still waiting for the last 'push' over the edge in either direciton. Have I pressed the issue significantly enough? We're Recruiting!
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2008.12.29 19:39:00 - [22] I stand corrected.... However.... My point remains... this is very unrefined as far as proposals go. =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.12.29 22:15:00 - [23] Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Amusing, but not even slightly reasonable. You forgot "IMHO". Beyond that, why do you feel it's unreasonable? Sci-fi movies have been doing it for years. Basically, Eve's combat model doesn't do things like that well. Same reason we'll never see joystick flight. This isn't a Wing Commander game, and tactical positioning is hard to manage and doesn't much matter. If it was implemented it'd either be too good - like a super-web, tearing people away from stations and gates - or utterly worthless. I don't want frigate rag dolls, and I definitely don't want combat Rorquals. And no matter how it was implemented, it'd be too hard to manage effectively. I just don't see it working. If you can give me an implementation that'd be good, then I'd change my mind, but I can't envision one. - Lottery - Golem! Cruiser BPC Store
Vivien Sureflight	Posted - 2008.12.30 02:26:00 - [24] How about this, Hersch: Use my idea above, but give them massive Power Grid and Cap usage. You might be able to fit and run 5 on a dual Cap Boosted BS. And them make them stack like webs. It wouldn't be overpowered (they'd stop working at 1km just like normal tractor beams), so if a frig pilot was comfortable flying at that distance, then there's nothing much lost. Also, any frig should be able to outrun any tractor effect (let's say larges pull frigs at 300m/s), which means that unless the BS also webs the frig, it's not much worthwhile. And hell, give them a 12km range so Inties aren't much effected. As to frig rag dolls... The only way this would really happen is if you had three BSs with tractors all spread out and all pulling the same frig. But even so, the vectors would more or less cancel out and even though the frig would be bobbing around, his normal speed would be more or less maintained unless one side had a much stronger pull (i.e., three beams) than the other--in which case, there wouldn't really be a change in the way they were supposed to function. Add to that the fact that if three BSs were fitting smartbombs instead of tractors, the frigs would stand an even worse chance of survival. Implementation of this idea would also be interesting in that it might give life to quad tractoring disco Geddons. They wouldn't be very useful, but they would be FUN (and hey, they would work as a drone killer--> drag drones off the target then smartbomb their asses). In short, I really don't see the problem here. Especially since the QR update; there should probably be at least ONE moderately ineffective BS sized mod added to help counter a 4-man frig gang. __________________________________ Give a man some fire and he'll be warm for a day. SET a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life...


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