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Nikotium
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
 |
Posted - 2012.06.14 14:44:00 -
[91] - Quote
if someone wants to imagine that their space ship has a crew, then LET them. if they want to imagine that their pilot talks with the other "normal" pilots, LET them. if they want to imagine that their character actually walks around their ship, LET them. it's NOT up to YOU to decide what people imagine their character do or not. if you want to imagine your character as a non-communicative person, then he or she IS a non-communicative person. stop hampering people from using their imagination. stop yelling at them for having an imagination. do your thing and let them do theirs.
i personally imagine that my pilot "shoots the breeze" with the Concord Toll personnel, that he walks around his ship smoking and drinking Quafe and talking to his crew, ready at a moments notice to get back in his pod and take control of his ship.
but, that doesn't mean i want everyone else to do the same. nor do i care what others imagine what their character do or do not do. |

Dr Ted Kaper
Etoilles Mortant Ltd. Solyaris Chtonium
0
 |
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:11:00 -
[92] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Dr Ted Kaper wrote:I always assumed that there is no crew present on any other ship other than carriers, unless you actually choose to keep people. Reason being: to have any kind of crew on a ship which is inevitably going to be destroyed would be INSANELY expensive. So the only crew are the people which you purchase off the market. Carriers specifically because they have fighters which do have people to pilot them. The other reason i think this way, is that when doing missions our ships are vastly superior to the staffed ships, and the justification for our superior power is the connection between captain and ship. A staffed ship will take longer to react and does not work as fluently as capsuleers. This results in far poorer accuracy, lock time, speed, and tank. So the reason we never see any interaction between a crew is because there is non. You could just go to evelopedia and search for crew but.... 1) You are right, it is expensive. Then again we are insanely rich. The story, "Khadrea" tells us that six million Amamake credits at current exchange rates amounts to 3,600 ISK. So you can hire a lot of people and pay them well (or their families should they die) for what is less than pocket change to capsuleers. 2) Capsule only eliminates bridge crew. You will still need mechanics, engineers, people working on the guns (one chronicle -All these lives are fit to ruin - had a crewman sabotaging the turret loading mechanisms resulting in the ships destruction), monitoring the powerplant (fission/fusion/graviton/antimatter reactors), engine maintenance and so on. Even frigates tend to have one or two crewmen on top of the capsuleer, altough they can be operated just by a capsuleer if needed. The bigger the ship, the more crew it will need. Carriers for example would need extra people to maintain the fighters, and titans would need people to maintain the doomsday weapon, the jump bridge systems and host of other things on such a massive ship. 3) The reason capsuleer ships are superior is because we control the ship alone, and we generally can afford superior quality modules for our ships. It is also important to consider that 1USD~1784COP... and i never see any money leave my wallet for any kind of crew tax. Then again we also do not pay for food or fuel. Also consider that armor repairers, shield boosters, and hull repairers are all done by nanobots. Plus because this takes place in space, ships never age. The computer and your skills accomadate for all aspects of a ship, hence why you must learn the mechanics of every system on your ship. Note that charisma is not needed for the operation of many systems on ships. System failures do occur: i sometimes find that my armor hardeners have recieved damage after a lot of use. |

Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
27
 |
Posted - 2012.06.14 15:48:00 -
[93] - Quote
In game mechanics =/= lore. I don't understand why people seem to think this, in many other MMO's as well. In-universe, ships have a crew, altough it is not reflected ingame. It's up to you of course to ignore them if you will, don't matter to me none.
Nikotium; If you want to write fan-fiction, or roleplay, then you need to know the world you're writing about. I'm all for imagination, but when you're playing with someone elses universe, well, you should play by the rules and guidelines they have set. Again, you're free to imagine your ship however you like, but I think most people would expect you to acknowledge certain things as fact if you try to roleplay with them, or have them understand a story you've written. Just my 2c. |

Nikotium
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
 |
Posted - 2012.06.14 16:07:00 -
[94] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:In game mechanics =/= lore. I don't understand why people seem to think this, in many other MMO's as well. In-universe, ships have a crew, altough it is not reflected ingame. It's up to you of course to ignore them if you will, don't matter to me none.
Nikotium; If you want to write fan-fiction, or roleplay, then you need to know the world you're writing about. I'm all for imagination, but when you're playing with someone elses universe, well, you should play by the rules and guidelines they have set. Again, you're free to imagine your ship however you like, but I think most people would expect you to acknowledge certain things as fact if you try to roleplay with them, or have them understand a story you've written. Just my 2c.
i'm going to roleplay the way i want and imagine my ship the way i want, and not really care about weather people look down their elitist noses at me, just because i like to imagine that i am not ALL alone on a 50000 m3 large ship. but that is just in my mind, not something i write in the chat :P i will not adhere to the "rules" of this universe, since they seem to be very much made up by the players themselfs, i WAS going to write a short roleplaying story about my character.. but seeing all that hootnany that got started because of "crews or no crews" i really do not feel like it. and am i the only one that have trouble finding anyone to roleplay with... even if i apply for those corporations under the Roleplaying section of the Corporation tab, i end up with non-roleplaying people. kinda annoying, if you ask me :P |

Nathan Isaiah
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
 |
Posted - 2012.06.15 02:38:00 -
[95] - Quote
Hello! New here, and this is the first time I've ever been interested in replying to some of the many forum post I've read. I have a somewhat basic level of the game's lore and fiction, as much as many people have of their own country's history, so what I say could be completely off-base. However, I still want to at least give my opinion on the matter:
EVE wormhole collapse and colony failure: I consider this period in Eve lore to be similar to the European's colonization of the New World. The establishment of a colony generally requires a settling population with the skills to somewhat sustain themselves, but they would still be heavily reliant on frequent resupply ships from the homeland. Even still, some early colonies still failed due to environmental factors, starvation, harsh climate, etc. Many of Eve's earliest settlers would have experienced this same phenomenon on some of their planets. This was a "new" universe with new plagues, diseases, and challenges to overcome.
Now imagine if Europe suddenly disappeared and those fledgling settlements or colonies had to rely on themselves without the resupply missions from their homeland. More than likely, many colonies would fail simply because the likelihood that those colonies had all the necessary skilled colonists to pick up slack for the sudden drop in resupply is ... doubtful. While some space stations and ships would have probably been trapped in the Eve universe after wormhole collapse, they would probably also eventually fall into disrepair and used for scrap simply because most of the shipyards would have been in the Milky Way (MW). Lore also says that it was the corporations in the MW that wanted to expand to the Eve universe, and corporations want to do things the cheap way. Is it cheaper to build the entire infrastructure needed to support your colony on a new planet? Or is it cheaper to use already existing facilities in the MW and ship it through the wormhole? The colonies were more-than-likely meant to serve a purpose (i.e. mining) for the particular corporation that sponsored them. And the independent colonist groups? They probably didn't have the financial backing. Just some things to think about.
Capsuleer and crew: As for the "human's reproducing" thing that everyone seems to think is the limiting factor for why ships wouldn't get recrewed so quickly.... remember that all the empires (and pirates probably too) have cloning technology, and in fact, the Caldari use it extensively (as my guy IS a tube child). Earth currently has 7 billion people. Consider how many populated planets there are in the Eve universe. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of them have way more than 7 billion people. There are probably no short supply of crew members. Let's take a mathematical example!
If every player of Eve (assuming 20,000) flew a Titan with a maximum crew of 145,000 people:
20,000 * 145,000 = 2,900,000,000 crew members
2.9 billion crew members if everyone flew a Titan really isn't that much in the universe of Eve with all the planets and people. This number is assuming 100% mortality rate and maximum crew count for all races. The website linked discusses the differences in empire mentalities about war. Caldari are highly militarized, therefore no shortage of crewman. Ammar have more automation than people assume, and even if they didn't, religious zealots are more than willing to give their lives serving for their Empress and God. Gallente have low crew counts, but they make it up with the most automation. Minmatar have high crew counts because they are fighting for a cause and rely on less automation, and fighting in the name of "freedom from oppression" that can be a powerful motivator to get crews aboard your ships.
And as for a capsuleer caring or interacting with his crew, why not? When I go into these missions, I know that I am taking the lives of my crew and the people who work on this ship into my own hands, even if I can't die. I also know I need to make the money to upgrade my ship, to better protect me, my assets, and my crew. In real life, being with a crew longer usually increases ship overall efficiency due to the crew "knowing" each other, and this is actually something I wish CCP would include in the game mechanics (i.e. the longer you haven't had your ship destroyed, general ship's efficiency would increase by like ~1-3% in some areas). I imagine that the crew make money as well for serving on these ships, although it doesn't come out of my ISK.
Lore and fiction-writing: I will never, ever criticize someone for expressing their creativity and thinking outside the box when given a rigid set of rules to follow in order to conform to "lore" of a game. Eve, however, has a general lore background that seems open-ended and promotes exploration of the fictional universe. It is silly of us to assume that the lore is "illogical" or "logical" based on our own interpretations of it. Religious crusades have killed people for less! The fact is, Eve is played by people from many different countries, each with their own cultural and personal ideas of "logical" and "illogical". Our own history, as it has been pointed out before, is riddled with plotholes and misinterpretations. History is written by the victors, and in this case, CCP is the victor because they literally own the universe that we participate in.
So what I say is: Write your stories however you feel it should be. Not everyone will always agree with your interpretation of it, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that YOU enjoyed writing and sharing it. Personally, I enjoy reading different perspectives on game lore.
Anyway, I have to end it soon. Running out of characters. This was just all my opinion. See you in game! |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
285
 |
Posted - 2012.06.15 14:09:00 -
[96] - Quote
Nathan Isaiah wrote:Lore and fiction-writing: I will never, ever criticize someone for expressing their creativity and thinking outside the box when given a rigid set of rules to follow in order to conform to "lore" of a game. Eve, however, has a general lore background that seems open-ended and promotes exploration of the fictional universe. It is silly of us to assume that the lore is "illogical" or "logical" based on our own interpretations of it. Religious crusades have killed people for less! The fact is, Eve is played by people from many different countries, each with their own cultural and personal ideas of "logical" and "illogical". Our own history, as it has been pointed out before, is riddled with plotholes and misinterpretations. History is written by the victors, and in this case, CCP is the victor because they literally own the universe that we participate in.
So what I say is: Write your stories however you feel it should be. Not everyone will always agree with your interpretation of it, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that YOU enjoyed writing and sharing it. Personally, I enjoy reading different perspectives on game lore.
Anyway, I have to end it soon. Running out of characters. This was just all my opinion. See you in game!
Well, the lore does only exists because the game needed something to support it - nothing more.
CCP own the IP, but not our keyboards - and as mentioned, anything we write cannot break lore, because we do not write lore, we write fan fiction.
AK GG#You go into combat, and itGGVs NOT going to be WagnerGG*industrial techno or really hard drum and bassGG% Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |

Nathan Isaiah
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
 |
Posted - 2012.06.15 18:01:00 -
[97] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote: CCP own the IP, but not our keyboards - and as mentioned, anything we write cannot break lore, because we do not write lore, we write fan fiction.
Also a valid point. Touche, my friend. :)
I feel like, "We do not write lore, we write fan fiction!" should be made into a t-shirt or poster. Lol. |

Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
4
 |
Posted - 2012.06.16 05:40:00 -
[98] - Quote
Mira Robinson wrote:I was under the impression that Capsuleer-piloted ships had no crew. That due to the connections in the pod, they essentially were the ship, and didn't require anyone else.
If I am wrong, please correct me, as I'm planning some Eve fiction. Thanks.
no command crew.
basically to put things in perspective if the Starship Enterprise where a pod ship, you would not need the bridge crew or the bridge bunnies. Kirk would be in an egg pod. But you would still need scotty and his engineering team to keep the engines running when they are shot full of holes.
As for crew survival here is where I separate gameplay from story. In game for the sake of gameplay, ships go pop and of the line. In a story though there is no reason one could not have a ship taking an unholy beating as the life boats eject. Naturally like any real world naval ship there would be losses even with life boats.
This brings us to the stealing a ship idea, One thought I had on this was an insertion team sneaking onto a ship in the middle of battle. once the shields are down a boarding pod is shot at the high value vessel and commandos go aboard. However they have combat eva suits so killing the air would not stop them. They have a hacker on board that hacks the pod safety systems and tells them the reactor is going critical forcing a pod eject and allowing the enemy to slide their own pod in and take control. |

Bluddwolf
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
41
 |
Posted - 2012.06.16 12:07:00 -
[99] - Quote
I would like to thank everyone for their thoughtful contributions to this discussion. This is by far my most successful thread. It would have been nice to get a dev comment in here, but then again, I think we have been doing a pretty good job without one.
As the summer months quickly approach, I'll likely begin my writing project in July. I will certainly be using some of the insights expressed here as part of my story telling.
@Viktor .... Stealing Ships, is somehting I was not thinking of. How does a Capsuleer take control of the crew of a ship he/she captures?
* Crew Compacency = "I don't care who is piloting this ship, as long as I get paid"
If we buy into the idea that capsuleers are universally disliked, feared and or worshiped, then the "little people" couldn't care less with whom is piloting the ship.
* Crew fear = Capsuleer Announces: "I am now your captain, follow my instructions or I will vent all of your asses into space, and get a new crew at the next station."
This could of course be an idle threat, but we get back to the "capsuleers are universally disliked, feared and or worshiped", and the crew won't take the chance that he/she is bluffing.
Will a crew be all that loyal?
The Amarr have an Empire, an Empress and perhaps even a Religion that Amarrian crews might be loyal towards.
The Caldari have Mega Corporations, but no real "National or Imperial" identity. They are essentially, all mercenaries or private contractors (if you like the description better).
The Minmatar have their Republic, but as is the case with all republics it is fragmented. Minmatar tend to be more loyal towards their tribal affiliation than the Republic as a whole.
The Gallente have their Federation, and they seem to be pretty loyal towards it.
So the question stands, how would crews react to having one capsuleer abandon ship, to be replaced by the capsuleer that forced him to flee. EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it
|

Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
5
 |
Posted - 2012.06.16 12:47:00 -
[100] - Quote
Well even threaten to vent the place may or may not work, depending on the skill of the engineering crew and how much control the pod has over the minor non flight/combat related subsystems.
For all we know the crew is who keeps things like life support going.
However smaller vessels like cruisers could likely be secured by a fairly small commando team. they simply have their hacker once the pod switch is in progress close all the bulkheads and lock them. small team goes to engineering and the magazine of course to make sure nobody sets anything to explode.(this would be a risk even with venting as we have no clue how things work for crews in EVE, for all we know something like some kinda scifi eva suit that allows lots of agility is worn during combat situations already so the crew can keep working even if a compartment decompresses.)
the environmental suits naturally likely would depend on the faction of the pilot owning the ship. Amarr pilots may or may not care depending on if they see buying new slaves as an investment or merely a cost of operations. Gallente crews are likely more valued by gallente pilots simply for being people as that is something of value to them I think. Caldari would have the suits because a crew member is an investment cost and cost is cost to a caldari. Minmatar it would likely be completely up to the pilot. |
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Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
70
 |
Posted - 2012.06.16 13:37:00 -
[101] - Quote
The question is, is it even possible to vent a (whole) ship? |

Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
5
 |
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:14:00 -
[102] - Quote
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:The question is, is it even possible to vent a (whole) ship? I am thinking no, because not all doors and airlocks would be completely tied to the main computer and that is how the pilot interacts with the ship. |

Bluddwolf
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
41
 |
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:41:00 -
[103] - Quote
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:The question is, is it even possible to vent a (whole) ship?
I would think, yes.... Contrary to at least one poster here, and I mean this with utmost respect, I'd think the capsuleer has access to every system and full control over them.
What leads me to believe this is simple ... We have the self-destruct button. If we have the unchecked ability to destoy the whole ship, we must have the ability to vent the ship as well.
When the POD abandons the ship, what does the ship do? It is "dead in the water". But, not just that, it is also open to boarding by any other capsuleer with the skill to pilot it. EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it
|

Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
31
 |
Posted - 2012.06.17 18:12:00 -
[104] - Quote
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:The question is, is it even possible to vent a (whole) ship?
I'd think so. What is the most efficient way to put out a large fire on a spaceship? By venting the atmosphere. Normally you would seal the bulkheads in the immediate area that needs to be extinguished, but what is to stop an egger from keeping all doors open and venting all compartments? I'd like to think our control on shipsystems is hardcoded and -wired, thus extremely hard to disrupt by an outside force - but I suppose not entirely impossible. |

Nikotium
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
 |
Posted - 2012.06.20 11:48:00 -
[105] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:The question is, is it even possible to vent a (whole) ship? I'd think so. What is the most efficient way to put out a large fire on a spaceship? By venting the atmosphere. Normally you would seal the bulkheads in the immediate area that needs to be extinguished, but what is to stop an egger from keeping all doors open and venting all compartments? I'd like to think our control on shipsystems is hardcoded and -wired, thus extremely hard to disrupt by an outside force - but I suppose not entirely impossible.
well, i have been shot up so badly that my ship was on fire. But, i did not see any way of putting the fire out, except for hull repair. i'm going to repeat myself: imagine what you want, not what everybody else wants you to imagine. All i have seen so far is theories and suggestions really.
Fan fiction is fan fiction. write what you want. i'll read it and enjoy it for what it is. from some of the few things i have read, it is really well written and, i use this word loosely, immersive. which is apparently not a word according to the red line bellow it...
i'll probably write a short story on my character, based on my own imagination that is.
"Ya'll need to cool yo jets! Aint no need fer all that hate." |

Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
35
 |
Posted - 2012.06.20 12:57:00 -
[106] - Quote
Nikotium wrote: imagine what you want, not what everybody else wants you to imagine. All i have seen so far is theories and suggestions really.
Well maybe I want to imagine how things would happen "realistically". |

Twisted Xistance
Red Command
7
 |
Posted - 2012.06.26 02:16:00 -
[107] - Quote
When I think of my capsuleer I imagine it like in the imperiator titan pilots in warhammer epic, he is the ship, his consciousness is transfered into the very metal of the ships its self. I think the crew of the ship is as insignificant to my capsuleer as your individual cells are to you (we need every cell in our body but spend very little time thinking about them). |

Twisted Xistance
Red Command
7
 |
Posted - 2012.06.26 02:19:00 -
[108] - Quote
In fact imagine an agent mission, teh capsuleers account of that incident could be written up in a few lines or maybe at most a page, though how many full books of lore could you get out of the accounts of each mortal destroyed in that one mission. |

Twisted Xistance
Red Command
7
 |
Posted - 2012.06.26 02:24:00 -
[109] - Quote
Dr Ted Kaper wrote:I always assumed that there is no crew present on any other ship other than carriers, unless you actually choose to keep people. Reason being: to have any kind of crew on a ship which is inevitably going to be destroyed would be INSANELY expensive. So the only crew are the people which you purchase off the market. Carriers specifically because they have fighters which do have people to pilot them. The other reason i think this way, is that when doing missions our ships are vastly superior to the staffed ships, and the justification for our superior power is the connection between captain and ship. A staffed ship will take longer to react and does not work as fluently as capsuleers. This results in far poorer accuracy, lock time, speed, and tank. So the reason we never see any interaction between a crew is because there is non.
how long would 1m3 of food feed a person for and how much would it cost us for it in isk
To us a million isk is nothing though to a mortal it would be more isk than they could ever of dreamed of. I've not yet read any of the books (waiting eagerly for one to come in the post) though I speculate the costs involved in perspective to what a capsuleer actually makes from a single trit trade would be insignificant in comparison |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
292
 |
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:29:00 -
[110] - Quote
Twisted Xistance wrote:To us a million isk is nothing though to a mortal it would be more isk than they could ever of dreamed of. I've not yet read any of the books (waiting eagerly for one to come in the post) though I speculate the costs involved in perspective to what a capsuleer actually makes from a single trit trade would be insignificant in comparison
And, herein lies one of the problems writers of EVE Fan fiction face.
Capsuleers are hard to write because in the face of adversity, they can buy a planet and have exotic dancers feed them for the rest of their days.
It's kinda hard for anyone to relate to someone who access to that level of living, and to be sympathetic towards them.
Would you be prepared to sit down in a bar and listen to the whimsical mumerings of a millionaire in real life? Especially if they began to complain and moan about how bad their life is...you might even take a few moments to reach for the nearest door...and slam their face into it.
No different than 'interview with a vampire', where the lead (Pitt) is whining throughout the entire film and the audience is just thinking 'man, if I was that unhappy, I'd just wait for the sun to come up'.
AK GG#You go into combat, and itGGVs NOT going to be WagnerGG*industrial techno or really hard drum and bassGG% Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |
|

Bluddwolf
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
42
 |
Posted - 2012.06.28 10:44:00 -
[111] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:
And, herein lies one of the problems writers of EVE Fan fiction face.
Capsuleers are hard to write because in the face of adversity, they can buy a planet and have exotic dancers feed them for the rest of their days.
It's kinda hard for anyone to relate to someone who access to that level of living, and to be sympathetic towards them.
Would you be prepared to sit down in a bar and listen to the whimsical mumerings of a millionaire in real life? Especially if they began to complain and moan about how bad their life is...you might even take a few moments to reach for the nearest door...and slam their face into it.
No different than 'interview with a vampire', where the lead (Pitt) is whining throughout the entire film and the audience is just thinking 'man, if I was that unhappy, I'd just wait for the sun to come up'.
AK
This is a great comment. However, I would lean more towards writing about a non sympathetic character. Yes, capsuleers can buy planets. Yes, they are "immortal". Yes, they are out of touch with with the lives of the little people. This I believe will appeal to a reader, to read about someone they have to work at making a connection to.
Capsuleers would likely not sit down in a bar with anyone but, other capsuleers or perhaps the most trusted (senior) members of their crew. EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it
|

Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
16
 |
Posted - 2012.06.28 12:55:00 -
[112] - Quote
well there is more than one reason for that, going into a bar like any old dive they could get killed. I bet the highest end station bars have extremely fancy and high tech weapons scanners at the doors. Go into any old dive and never know what might happen. I am sure the lower levels of many stations is comparable to Detroit for safety. I doubt any pod pilot wants to survive losing their battleship in a hail of torpedoes only to get it in the back with the eve equal to a Darrainger over a matter of 1isk. |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
296
 |
Posted - 2012.06.28 17:01:00 -
[113] - Quote
Bluddwolf wrote:Capsuleers would likely not sit down in a bar with anyone but, other capsuleers or perhaps the most trusted (senior) members of their crew.
Hmm.
You're hinting at sociological-macro/micro-cosmological perceptions there.
Contextually to a story, one must be in a position where this is defined clearly.
My personal take on RL is less on being part of a larger group which defines the whole, than a smaller sub-set which is connected but different - but would agree my atomic structure is much the same as everyone else.
My perception on objects in RL is more to do with the spatial positioning of objects and my actual distance in relation to it., than the minutiae of the object itself.
eg; I am fully aware that in a certain part of the universe there is a shop where I used to work in my teens, and that if I were to stand in a certain position and crank my head in a certain way, I would see my signature written with a lead pencil and a date and time stamp next to it.
Every-time I return to that shop, I can still see it - but no matter how far away I travel from that point, it will still be there. Even if I went to the moon, or another solar system, or galaxy, or parallel dimension, that writing will still be there when I return - as will everything else in between those two points on the journey.
The shortest distance between two points, is the distance between a capsuleer and their clone.-, AlleyKat
AK GG#You go into combat, and itGGVs NOT going to be WagnerGG*industrial techno or really hard drum and bassGG% Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |

Eddie Monaghan
The Generic Pirate Corporation Fusion.
0
 |
Posted - 2012.06.28 21:08:00 -
[114] - Quote
I don't consider being in a capsule. Sure, this is what Eve lore and stories state, but to be honest, the concept is foreign to my mindset. I'm used to working as part of a team, spending time in the military. It takes a crew to run a ship nowadays, so it would go to follow that we'd have the same in the future, even with tech advances such as we have on Eve.
I don't write eve fiction, because my thoughts would not follow the concept of Capsuleers being "Demi-Gods". I don't fall into the line of thought of that sort. I look at it more as, in Eve, we've achieved the technology that allows us to be immortal, but it makes me no less important than any other human. I imagine myself giving my crew members their orders and such. Obviously this is a game, so I don't feel any sense of loss with them. I don't feel a sense of loss in losing a ship either, it's just pixels on a screen. |

Jax Bederen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
 |
Posted - 2012.06.30 20:16:00 -
[115] - Quote
Bluddwolf wrote:I want to thank everyone so far for your responses. As an aspiring writer, I'm trying to get a real feel for the psychology of capsuleers, particularly their coping methods for dealing with immortality, death of non capsuleers and being in the almost continuous state of war and conflict.
I'm not sure you are that immortal, a clone is a copy, but it is not you. When it wakes, it may have the same patterns but they are self contained, the original consciousness dies if you are podded as it is contained inside that body, hence it is not you waking up. The only way to insure your own consciousness to truly survive intact is to have a direct transfer old body to new body, much like in the old man's war books. |

Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Intergalactic Brotherhood
113
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Posted - 2012.07.01 01:41:00 -
[116] - Quote
The problem I have always had with this line of reasoning is that your essence is the pattern.. Whether an exact copy or not, it is an individual set of parameters that complete a whole personality. It is "your" personality. Whether imprinted upon a machine, a clone, or some other memetic storage medium, without degredation it is you..
There is no substantive difference, the experience, which is all we really are, remains the same. |

Jax Bederen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
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Posted - 2012.07.01 02:33:00 -
[117] - Quote
Roga Dracor wrote: The problem I have always had with this line of reasoning is that your essence is the pattern.. Whether an exact copy or not, it is an individual set of parameters that complete a whole personality. It is "your" personality. Whether imprinted upon a machine, a clone, or some other memetic storage medium, without degredation it is you..
There is no substantive difference, the experience, which is all we really are, remains the same.
Experience is the same, but for another person. It's not like you open your eyes and are in he's body, he is in he's own body, your synapses stopped firing and there was no connection between the two of you. Say you were killed 2 feet from your clone, the "you" would be dead, he would be alive. Even if both of you stood talking with each other it would be 2 separate beings with their own consciousness. Sure you left something behind with all your memories, but you would still be dead, you did not transfer there. |

Bluddwolf
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
42
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Posted - 2012.07.01 11:12:00 -
[118] - Quote
The concept of personality transfer when going from one self to a clone is not dealt with in EVE fiction / lore. That is a whole other issue with a whole set of new questions and problems.
Interestingly enough, or perhaps ironically, I just finished watching Battlestar Galactica (all 5 seasons) and Caprica. Both deal with the transfer of memories from one Cylon to a copy. In BSG copies can have their own "personalites" and their own experiences because the exist at the same time. There are multiple copies at one time. In Caprica, Zoe Graystone (The first Cylon w/ AI and Personality) recognizes that there is a differenece between the original human person and the copied Virtual World Zoe. Interesting and somewhat confusing.
In EVE, we only occupy one sefl at a time. I think it is safe to assume that when we transfer from one clone to another, all of our essense is transferred (memories, experineces, personality, etc.). EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it
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Roga Dracor
Mental Disorders Inc. Intergalactic Brotherhood
113
 |
Posted - 2012.07.01 15:31:00 -
[119] - Quote
In the case of clones active concurrently, they are not the same, even those standing two feet apart have subtle differences of experience in time and space, so subtle differences in experience of input.. They are effectively "different" creations, and these differences cascade as the seperations in time and space increase.
These differences can influence psychological perceptions and moral ambiguities, thus creating seperate and distinct personas. Such is not the case with clones in Eve. I would argue they are still "me". Gonna try a story 'bout it soon.. |

Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
96
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Posted - 2012.07.01 23:31:00 -
[120] - Quote
Jax Bederen wrote:The only way to insure your own consciousness to truly survive intact is to have a direct transfer old body to new body, much like in the old man's war books. Bluddwolf wrote:The concept of personality transfer when going from one self to a clone is not dealt with in EVE fiction / lore. Read the description for this skill:
Infomorph Psychology Infomorph Psychology Psychological training that strengthens the pilot's mental tenacity. The reality of having one's consciousness detached from one's physical form, scattered across the galaxy and then placed in a vat-grown clone can be very unsettling to the untrained mind.
And the following piece from this article:
Quote:The transneural burning scanner utilizes a combination of magnetic resonance imaging and emission tomography to quickly acquire a detailed scan of the brain down to the quantum level. In order to have a complete and accurate map of the brain and retain the all memories and personality, the scan must record the position of every atom. There is more if you look around a bit. Join in game channel/mailing list: New Eden Racing Sub-warp racing event thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107164 |
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