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Roga Dracor
Fury Lords
105
 |
Posted - 2012.05.11 02:32:00 -
[61] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:Entertainment. And if anyone maintains some level of defiance that the Lore is everything you could ever wish for in a story - jump onto Tranq and go take a look at 'The Monolith' which currently is at 1AU away from planet V moon V in the Dead End system. There is also an identical one elsewhere...but it jumps around a bit, like house of pain. The description of the Monolith remains the same as it's always been "It's full of stars". So, you got CCP referencing another science fiction story inside of their science fiction story - and even allowed it into the evelopedia here. AK
That has always been a favorite aspect of Eve to me.. The "honorable mention" that Eve pays to the sci fi greats such as BladeRunner, Dune, Hitchhiker's Guide, Foundation and Empire, etc., etc., et al..
Entertainment can be a different beast for different tastes and mindsets. Eve caters to MANY, and has always been thought of as an intellectual game in the gaming community.. Some just say it's boring..
CCP offered a chance to help them sort it out and make it so.
To make it more logical withhin and withstanding the game mechanics, and so we offer plausibility.. |

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
409
 |
Posted - 2012.05.11 07:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:Entertainment. And if anyone maintains some level of defiance that the Lore is everything you could ever wish for in a story - jump onto Tranq and go take a look at 'The Monolith' which currently is at 1AU away from planet V moon V in the Dead End system. There is also an identical one elsewhere...but it jumps around a bit, like house of pain. The description of the Monolith remains the same as it's always been "It's full of stars". So, you got CCP referencing another science fiction story inside of their science fiction story - and even allowed it into the evelopedia here. AK Now, if the A'J project still was running, I would write an article about how those monoliths (there are many of them) are celestial waypoint markers used by the Talocans millenia ago.
Sadly, no more A'J project. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-a |

Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
48
 |
Posted - 2012.05.11 17:55:00 -
[63] - Quote
All I know is that I frequently have to transport special edition boxed holoreel shipments and that my agent frequently warns me that my crew can't open any of them. As such I make sure my ships are wired with a full entertainment array for their breaks so as not to be tempted.
...I have to do the same thing when I transport a load of Quafe. I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler. |

Renier Gaden
Exanimo Inc Hedonistic Imperative
0
 |
Posted - 2012.05.15 18:23:00 -
[64] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote: Nah, the Lore uses the terms 'build' and 'construct'; not 'transport' and yes, they were built and were needed, which is why the sistas of EVE have got the original gate with "EVE" written on it. It isn't a riddle; there is nothing enigmatic about it at all - take a step back and look at the big picture: Someone wrote the Lore to work with the design of the game, not to work with logical reasoning. It is not logical. It doesn't make sense. It is not supposed to make sense. It is not supposed to be logical. The original screenshots of this game had blue-tooth headsets as futuristic methods of communication. Go figure, and please stop attempting to defend something so utterly flawed and accept it for what it is: Entertainment. And if anyone maintains some level of defiance that the Lore is everything you could ever wish for in a story - jump onto Tranq and go take a look at 'The Monolith' which currently is at 1AU away from planet V moon V in the Dead End system. There is also an identical one elsewhere...but it jumps around a bit, like house of pain. The description of the Monolith remains the same as it's always been "It's full of stars". So, you got CCP referencing another science fiction story inside of their science fiction story - and even allowed it into the evelopedia here. AK
I hope you are not labouring under the erroneous assumption that real life history is logical and makes sense.
What happened to the Viking colonies in Newfoundland and Nova Scotia? Where they not self sufficient enough to survive?
The Chinese once had a large fleet of sailing ships that sailed as far as Madagascar. But when Europeans first reached China, China no longer had large sailing ships. Why would one of the worldGGVs great naval powers give up itGGVs navy?
The EVE lore makes as much sense as much of our own history does. |

Thomas Gump
The Red Templars Guardians of Serenity
1
 |
Posted - 2012.05.16 07:19:00 -
[65] - Quote
A few people have said this already, but I thought I'd raise my hand in agreement (I'm new here, hello).
The bit of fiction I'm working on at the moment is based around a planet going Minmatarian who was coerced into becoming a partner in a corporation (and therefore a capsuleer) by an enterprising and seemingly friendly Caldarian. Over decades his role in a flourishing corporation becomes more and more mundane. He spends many months at a time in a stationary ship mining ice and worrying about not being adequate enough to satisfy the needs of his corporation while simultaneously becoming hollow inside and not caring much for his own life.
... He talks to his crew. He interacts with them. He has a close relationship with them. They worry about his health.
My writing background comes from writing stage scripts with two or three characters in an intimate setting. I gave this up a long long time ago, but I'm still not ready to depart from a story being based around rock solid characters and basic human interactions.
I'm sure there are lots of places that the whole pod pilot thing could take a character, and I've explored that a little bit, but I don't want my main character to be restricted to a capsule during what are surely the most interesting parts of the story. |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
258
 |
Posted - 2012.05.16 11:00:00 -
[66] - Quote
Renier Gaden wrote:I hope you are not labouring under the erroneous assumption that real life history is logical and makes sense
No. GG#You go into combat, and itGGVs NOT going to be WagnerGG*industrial techno or really hard drum and bassGG% Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
258
 |
Posted - 2012.05.16 11:10:00 -
[67] - Quote
Thomas Gump wrote:I'm sure there are lots of places that the whole pod pilot thing could take a character, and I've explored that a little bit, but I don't want my main character to be restricted to a capsule during what are surely the most interesting parts of the story.
Confused.
Why would the most interesting aspects of a capsuleer story be inside a pod?
Or, did I read that incorrectly?
Expand.
GG#You go into combat, and itGGVs NOT going to be WagnerGG*industrial techno or really hard drum and bassGG% Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |

Thomas Gump
The Red Templars Guardians of Serenity
2
 |
Posted - 2012.05.16 12:45:00 -
[68] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote: Why would the most interesting aspects of a capsuleer story be inside a pod?
I was suggesting that being in a space ship in space could be the most interesting part of the story. And during that interesting part of the story I don't want to confine my lead character to a pod. |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
258
 |
Posted - 2012.05.16 21:20:00 -
[69] - Quote
Thomas Gump wrote:AlleyKat wrote: Why would the most interesting aspects of a capsuleer story be inside a pod?
I was suggesting that being in a space ship in space could be the most interesting part of the story. And during that interesting part of the story I don't want to confine my lead character to a pod.
Got it. Thanks, I did read that incorrectly.
So, make the lead not a capsuleer, just a regular pilot - they do exist, apparently.
Or
Make them a reluctant capsuleer, who, for whatever sensible reason, is adverse to piloting/commanding a ship via neural interface. It would make sense, given their 'hands-on' approach to relationships ie; they prefer human contact to being in a capsule because doing that distances them from human contact.
Their arc could be (simplifying here) overcoming the thing that made them adverse to piloting by pod, whilst maintaining a centered personality that is now able to balance piloting by pod, and have interactions with the crew unaffected.
Like I say, this is simplification, but it would be interesting to have a character who is able to satisfy both of their needs (psychological and physical) by balancing pod piloting and interaction with the crew. Coupled to a strong story, this would be an interesting and satisfying conclusion to the story, no matter what it is about, as the reader would be able to identify with the main character because they are the root of the story.
Never need a complex story, just complex characters who make sense.
AK GG#You go into combat, and itGGVs NOT going to be WagnerGG*industrial techno or really hard drum and bassGG% Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |

Velicitia
Open Designs
932
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 14:14:00 -
[70] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:
Not all capsuleers have a blood-lust for violence ....
... I guess I refuse to believe the future of the human race will only have capsuleers who want to destroy stuff, when the majority of pilots run missions ...
While your entire post was great, this part stuck out (yes, I am taking your statements out of context, but this is what stuck with me). Mostly because, I don't follow how you can say that not all capsuleers have a blood-lust, then go on to talk about the missioners.
While it's not really used in game, this page has some rough guidelines on crew sizes for the ships...
so, using that table, and an "average" L4 mission (chosen at random from eve-survival) -- Intercept the Saboteurs.
(gate) 2x Destroyers @ 10-30 crew 3x Frigates @ 2-10 crew
total: 26 - 90 dead
(deadspace pocket) 6x Frigates @ 2-10 crew 5x Destroyers @ 10-30 crew 3x Heavy Assault Cruisers (Corpum Arch Priest/Sage) @ 20-75 crew 6x Cruisers @ 20-75 crew 8x Battlecruisers @ 40-170 crew 3x Battleships @ 200-550 crew 3x Interceptors (Elder Corpii Upholders) (Web/Scramble) @ 2-10 crew 3x Blood Raider Transports @ unknown crew
total: 1168 - 3925 dead
overall total for one mission then is 1194 - 4015 NPC crew members killed, assuming 100% death rates. Obviously the numbers can be skewed a fair bit by the survival rates as noted in the table on the evelopedia site.
A mission-runner can finish what ... 5-10 such missions in an hour? (I don't know, I don't mission) |
|

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
258
 |
Posted - 2012.05.17 20:35:00 -
[71] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:While your entire post was great, this part stuck out (yes, I am taking your statements out of context, but this is what stuck with me). Mostly because, I don't follow how you can say that not all capsuleers have a blood-lust, then go on to talk about the missioners.
Missioners respond to a call to action; pirates are the action.
AK
GG#You go into combat, and itGGVs NOT going to be WagnerGG*industrial techno or really hard drum and bassGG% Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |

Liang Huei
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
0
 |
Posted - 2012.06.03 02:38:00 -
[72] - Quote
I sometimes think that EVE has a problem with scale. Just can't really buy the fact that the Crew pods are too small for the overview if mine, which can't be way too bigger than theirs, isn't. Not only that, but i happen to believe that one, ten or one hundred escape pods may bail out unoticed, but not the thousands that bigger ships have.
Again on scale, i cannot see how a single pod like mine, when put side to side with, say, a cruiser, could correspond to, at least, one half of the number of passengers CCP tells that it can accomodate. Well, they could have explained the lack of pods in the overview with gameplay reasons, and not lore ones.
Thoughts on that? |

Bluddwolf
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
34
 |
Posted - 2012.06.03 16:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
Liang Huei wrote:I sometimes think that EVE has a problem with scale. Just can't really buy the fact that the Crew pods are too small for the overview if mine, which can't be way too bigger than theirs, isn't. Not only that, but i happen to believe that one, ten or one hundred escape pods may bail out unoticed, but not the thousands that bigger ships have.
Again on scale, i cannot see how a single pod like mine, when put side to side with, say, a cruiser, could correspond to, at least, one half of the number of passengers CCP tells that it can accomodate. Well, they could have explained the lack of pods in the overview with gameplay reasons, and not lore ones.
Thoughts on that?
I agree that there is likely more escape pods than we see. Your post brings up another interestign question. How many crew members are on the pod that we do see?
Is the "pod" reserved for just the captain?
Is the captain the only officer that is a capsuleer (clone)?
My thought it that the ships we fly are vastly more automated then some of us might think. I also believe that it is possible that the entire officer staff of a Cruiser + sized ship, spend the entire journey inside of their pods. This I believe is almost ceratin for the captain and I'll explain why in a moment. So in theory, actually physical contact or proximity is not necessary for officers to issue out orders and for those orders to be follwed.
Now for the Captain. He or she is definately sealed up in his / her pod. There are enough examples of Dev written chronicles and novels to support this. Also, the mechanics of the techonoly in New Eden require it as well. For example: How is that implant that is granting you +3% Rate of Fire interacting with the ship, if you are not linked to the ship physically?
The capsuleer is decribed as being inside the pod. Encased in goo, and plugged into his/her ship. The ship's functions becomes an extension of the capsuleer's mind. This does not mean that the Capsuleer can not communicate with the crew. he has to be able to. It doesn't mean he / she can't have a personal relationship with the crew, just not a physical one during space travel.
To join Heimatar Military Industries-a visit website or conatct Bluddwolf in-gamewww.hmi.guildlaunch.com |

Liang Huei
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
1
 |
Posted - 2012.06.03 20:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
I'd like to clarify my last paragraph: what i was trying to say is that i don't see an in-game cruiser model, for example, having enough size to make for 15 or so pods that should happen to have a size like mine. Not to mention the space that would have to be reserved for all the ships systems, living quarters and, well, everything else.
I'm actually trying to say that i believe that pods, in this game, are oversized, or maybe ship models are maybe not big |

Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
89
 |
Posted - 2012.06.03 21:16:00 -
[75] - Quote
I don't see the purpose of having more than one capsuleer on a ship. The idea of the capsuleer is that he, the captain, replaces the officers on the bridge, among other things.
As for pod size, I recall that the capsule is around 4m officially, but I've heard more often that the scale of certain things is mismatched when you put them side by side in the game. Anyway, an escape pod can be a lot smaller than a capsule for an egger. It could be coffin-sized, and possibly "inflatable" or something like that. Join in game channel/mailing list: New Eden Racing Sub-warp racing event thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107164 |

Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
24
 |
Posted - 2012.06.03 22:28:00 -
[76] - Quote
Liang Huei wrote:I sometimes think that EVE has a problem with scale. ......... Thoughts on that?
Sci-Fi writers have no sense of scale You might also want to check out the entry on Bellisario's Maxim.
As for the opening post of the thread - I don't like to look at things that black and white, and if there's anything I've noticed from official chronicles, there are more shades of grey in EVEverse than on this forum layout. Becoming a capsuleer doesn't necessarily mean abandoning your humanity. Sure, Prime Fiction generally paints us nothing but near-godlike mercenaries loyal only to their next paycheck, but why limit yourself to such a narrow pigeonholing?
Firstly, there's more career options available than just destroying pirate hives / enemy strongholds for the highest bidder - and infact this is one part of EVE I just prefer to ignore most of the time, character storyline wise at least. When you think about it too hard... Well It's just best not to. Right, career options.. Well, you can become an industrialist , an industrial pilot, a market player, a miner, heck, storyline wise a capsuleer could become little more than a glorified tourist shuttle pilot, a slave trader - imagination is the limit as in any other fiction, really. While it makes sense that many capsuleers are combat pilots and therefore prefer to be detached from crews, this doesn't quite hold true for say, a Freighter pilot. Freighters are notoriously slow, and you'll find playing space-farmville on GalNet interesting only for so long. To me it would only make sense that you'll socialize with the crew during long jumps, or at least be more "hands on" with everything. This, of course, doesn't mean you'll start walking around your ship (is it even possible to leave the pod while in control of a ship?), but holoprojecting your avatar around a ship. If you think that's unpractical, well, not necessarily. The shipboard AI can handle the most mundane functions and alert you should there be something requiring your immediate attention, like a warp tunnel breach. |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
268
 |
Posted - 2012.06.05 11:06:00 -
[77] - Quote
Teinyhr wrote:...you might also want to check out the entry on Bellisario's Maxim...
<3
GG#You go into combat, and itGGVs NOT going to be WagnerGG*industrial techno or really hard drum and bassGG% Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |

Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
42
 |
Posted - 2012.06.05 19:10:00 -
[78] - Quote
Roga Dracor wrote: "The Wetgrave" would seem to imply that it is "possible" to leave the pod in space. Though the ship would need the redundant control systems to allow ships to operate without a capsuleer. Whether these systems are present in Capsuleer production ships isn't clarified, that I know of.. .
Yes it is. It's said in the books that there are some ships with internal pod gantry here and there, not only the Significance. For instance, the MLS Morse is a Drake... Piloted by a non-capsuleer. |

Roga Dracor
Fury Lords
109
 |
Posted - 2012.06.05 19:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
Never read any of the books..  |

Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
44
 |
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:43:00 -
[80] - Quote
You should, they have so much shocking info! |
|

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
269
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 09:52:00 -
[81] - Quote
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:You should, they have so much shocking info!
Like, plot holes? General inconsistencies? flawed logic? bad grammar, syntax?
Or worst of all;
A complete lack of EVE Lexicon and / or any attempt at phonological assimilation between the 5 races?
AK GG#You go into combat, and itGGVs NOT going to be WagnerGG*industrial techno or really hard drum and bassGG% Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |

Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
47
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 11:36:00 -
[82] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:You should, they have so much shocking info! Like, plot holes? General inconsistencies? flawed logic? bad grammar, syntax? Or worst of all; A complete lack of EVE Lexicon and / or any attempt at phonological assimilation between the 5 races? AK
Okay, so tell me, which ones are those inconsistences and plot holes? I foresee great "collisions" like the previous guy saying "oh but this is IMPOSSIBLE, nothing in-game hinted that the sleepers could be part of the jove empire!!". |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
269
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 12:37:00 -
[83] - Quote
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:Okay, so tell me, which ones are those inconsistencies and plot holes? I foresee great "collisions" like the previous guy saying "oh but this is IMPOSSIBLE, nothing in-game hinted that the sleepers could be part of the Jove empire!!".
Haven't read them to be honest and have no intention to do so, so I was asking a series of questions based upon my fears of what could be contained within the pages of an EVE Novel, written by an organisation to further monetary gain of an existing IP.
Every time this happens, the results are flawed - I would trust a fan novella more, and apologies to anyone who may get offended by that statement, but I ran out of coffee this morning and Seagulls to throw stones at.
AK GG#You go into combat, and itGGVs NOT going to be WagnerGG*industrial techno or really hard drum and bassGG% Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |

Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
47
 |
Posted - 2012.06.07 14:06:00 -
[84] - Quote
Sigh. |

Roga Dracor
Fury Lords
109
 |
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:27:00 -
[85] - Quote
He is talking about the general handwave that takes place when you consider the dialectal disparity given in the fiction.. I think.. Our Neocoms automatically translate between the many dialects of New Eden.. Yes, there are MANY.. Technology is the answer, and I would assume that many capsuleers are fluent in several languages, as well, when you consider the resources we have at our disposal..
Though English is generally the "Trade Language" of Eve, there are many languages chosen out of convenience for the individual players.. New Eden would have a similar language that most everyone would know, if they travelled regularly, just as in the real world. Concordia, maybe..
Gallente use French, or some pseudo French descendant.. Likely sounds nothing like modern French, but, why not French, or any other modern dialects progeny? The Ammar could speak a Latin spawned amalgam with Arabic or Japanese? We do hail from a planet called Earth, perhaps this "Earth" had a slightly different history than that which we call home?
Fiction is pure speculation.. It really is as simple as that.. What if? |

Mira Robinson
United Amarr Templar Legion
8
 |
Posted - 2012.06.08 06:35:00 -
[86] - Quote
I was under the impression that Capsuleer-piloted ships had no crew. That due to the connections in the pod, they essentially were the ship, and didn't require anyone else.
If I am wrong, please correct me, as I'm planning some Eve fiction. Thanks. |

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
269
 |
Posted - 2012.06.08 09:55:00 -
[87] - Quote
Mira Robinson wrote:I was under the impression that Capsuleer-piloted ships had no crew. That due to the connections in the pod, they essentially were the ship, and didn't require anyone else.
If I am wrong, please correct me, as I'm planning some Eve fiction. Thanks.
Greatly reduced crew compliments.
Invented by the Jove, as they have few people in their populace and therefore ship losses were impactful.
GG#You go into combat, and itGGVs NOT going to be WagnerGG*industrial techno or really hard drum and bassGG% Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |

Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
6
 |
Posted - 2012.06.13 08:20:00 -
[88] - Quote
Silas Vitalia wrote:AlleyKat wrote: Where are these people coming from? Who hires them? Why would they be anywhere near an employment office for ship crews? It's got to be eventual death for anyone who signs up for it. Surely there are more jobs available for 'space station janitor' or plan old 'concord regional office administrator 3rd grade' not to mention the enormous amounts of Veldspar that needs loading and unloading at the space docks on stations.
AK
They sign up because they can make more aboard a ship on a short tour than they can the rest of their natural lives at regular salaries. History has no shortage of people willing to risk life and limb just at the mere possibility of becoming wealthy. We have to imagine capsuleer payouts to crew as substantial, not to mention insurance policies to the families of deceased crews. There's more than enough money involved for ships to be constantly crewed by willing individuals.
http://community.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=14-07-05 |

Dr Ted Kaper
Etoilles Mortant Ltd. Solyaris Chtonium
0
 |
Posted - 2012.06.14 01:23:00 -
[89] - Quote
I always assumed that there is no crew present on any other ship other than carriers, unless you actually choose to keep people. Reason being: to have any kind of crew on a ship which is inevitably going to be destroyed would be INSANELY expensive. So the only crew are the people which you purchase off the market. Carriers specifically because they have fighters which do have people to pilot them. The other reason i think this way, is that when doing missions our ships are vastly superior to the staffed ships, and the justification for our superior power is the connection between captain and ship. A staffed ship will take longer to react and does not work as fluently as capsuleers. This results in far poorer accuracy, lock time, speed, and tank. So the reason we never see any interaction between a crew is because there is non. |

Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
27
 |
Posted - 2012.06.14 12:46:00 -
[90] - Quote
Dr Ted Kaper wrote:I always assumed that there is no crew present on any other ship other than carriers, unless you actually choose to keep people. Reason being: to have any kind of crew on a ship which is inevitably going to be destroyed would be INSANELY expensive. So the only crew are the people which you purchase off the market. Carriers specifically because they have fighters which do have people to pilot them. The other reason i think this way, is that when doing missions our ships are vastly superior to the staffed ships, and the justification for our superior power is the connection between captain and ship. A staffed ship will take longer to react and does not work as fluently as capsuleers. This results in far poorer accuracy, lock time, speed, and tank. So the reason we never see any interaction between a crew is because there is non.
You could just go to evelopedia and search for crew but.... 1) You are right, it is expensive. Then again we are insanely rich. The story, "Khadrea" tells us that six million Amamake credits at current exchange rates amounts to 3,600 ISK. So you can hire a lot of people and pay them well (or their families should they die) for what is less than pocket change to capsuleers.
2) Capsule only eliminates bridge crew. You will still need mechanics, engineers, people working on the guns (one chronicle -All these lives are fit to ruin - had a crewman sabotaging the turret loading mechanisms resulting in the ships destruction), monitoring the powerplant (fission/fusion/graviton/antimatter reactors), engine maintenance and so on. Even frigates tend to have one or two crewmen on top of the capsuleer, altough they can be operated just by a capsuleer if needed. The bigger the ship, the more crew it will need. Carriers for example would need extra people to maintain the fighters, and titans would need people to maintain the doomsday weapon, the jump bridge systems and host of other things on such a massive ship.
3) The reason capsuleer ships are superior is because we control the ship alone, and we generally can afford superior quality modules for our ships. |
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