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Undertow Latheus
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Posted - 2008.12.13 12:59:00 -
[1]
Does anyone think that artillery is balanced? I don't think I'm being too unreasonable here, artillery seems to be the only weapon system that everyone agrees, sucks.
1.) Ammo Capacity. When i was moving up to battleships for ratting, I was talking about setups involving 1400mm artillery, and someone in corp chat told me to avoid them and use 1200mm, not because 1400's are too hard to fit, but simply because they have too low ammo capacity and I'd be reloading half the time i was ratting. Actually, I don't see low capacity a bad thing, i actually think it could be worked to our advantage. Minmatar is supposed to be the hit and run and skirmish race, which in my mind is high damage in a short amount of time. What we have right now is artillery that does the worst damage of any weapon in the game, and can only fire for a short amount of time before wasting precious time to reload.
I think artillery should get a damage boost so it does more dps than other systems, but still has capacity problem so it's not overpowered but can now compete with other long range weapons and fit Matar mentality.
2.) Range. Artillery optimal range is pitiful, and can easily get outranged apocs with pulse lasers (not vying for laser nerf). Why do we have the worst optimal? Because we have the best falloff and are supposed to rely on that? Fighting in falloff and cutting your dps in half when already using the worst dps gun possible is just senseless, do you honestly want all of our sniping battleships doing less than 200 gun dps in order to compete with other snipers?
3.) Tracking. Nothing much to say here except for that it sucks, but I'm not entirely sure how much worse it is than other long range weapon systems. I'll leave it up to somebody else whether they need a tracking boost or not...
What are your thoughts on what should be done and/or the nature of Artillery? Personally I'm hoping for a boost to damage the most because that would actually fit what minnie is supposed to be like, and getting all three aspects of artillery buffed significantly would be overkill.
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Karille
Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.12.13 13:07:00 -
[2]
I think it's balanced.
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Ironnight
Caldari x13 X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.13 13:16:00 -
[3]
Projectile weapons dont use cap and work on falloff. Arty have great alpha strike, I think they are ok balanced. They're like 'oh **** son, its a trap ' *Doomsday* |
Obsidian Dagger
Weak and Fee-bile
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Posted - 2008.12.13 13:39:00 -
[4]
Better tracking would be nice. Ammo capacity isnt such a big deal really, and range can be lived with, especially if you swap out the ammo to vary the optimal. But tracking speed is abysmal, something needs to be done with that.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.12.13 13:40:00 -
[5]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 13/12/2008 13:41:30 Edited by: MotherMoon on 13/12/2008 13:41:17 honestly I would love to see more alpha... my dream is a 25% increase in damage with a 33% decrease(increase?) in RoF or something along those lines. With 4 outifted that would be an extra gun worth of alpha.
so less RoF in my opinion, more alpha!
Or somethig new like they can fire like FoF weapons, that would be cool :P minmatar could be the anti-ECM race for long range. just throw some tempests in there and watch them FoF the closest target :P
edit: another idea, have arties, or a new tech 3 ammo type allow for arties to tag targets with an increase to sig radius that stacks. Thus they could become tracer rounds, and while tracking would be bad, the tracking would get better and better as each hit you landed.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2008.12.13 13:46:00 -
[6]
It's balanced to suck. If you do a lot of sniping and want to excel in it, train for a more useful long range weapon system. CCP might change it a little at some point, but it will propably remain subpar. Those little advantages projectiles have, even though they might not be very useful when sniping, will stop CCP from making them an equal to other long range weapon systems.
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Cyrus Brown
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Posted - 2008.12.13 14:14:00 -
[7]
CCP please buff Minmatar weapon systems.
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Tippia
Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.12.13 14:22:00 -
[8]
…would it be bad form to mirror the recent "fit painters" comment used to counter the incessant missile whines?
Fit tracking computers! They address the range and tracking issues at least…
No sig for me, thankyouverymuch. |
Argilac Blackthorne
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Posted - 2008.12.13 14:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tippia àwould it be bad form to mirror the recent "fit painters" comment used to counter the incessant missile whines?
Fit tracking computers! They address the range and tracking issues at leastà
Actually, yes, that is perfectly okay for you to say. But then I must say nerf lasers!
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Sniper Wolf18
Gallente Apocalypse Ponies
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Posted - 2008.12.13 14:37:00 -
[10]
I think its perfectly balanced, why once a guy from the circus balanced a 1400mm howitzer on his nose! and seriously! Thanks for just reading my sig! |
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Discrodia
Gallente Universal Army
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Posted - 2008.12.13 14:51:00 -
[11]
You do realize, that by giving them the highest DPS you'd kill blasters on the spot? And every gallante would begin flying with your crappy duct-tape guns on their PvP ship? I like whales... I'm donating 300 mil towards an Orca BPO. Did you notice this is my sig? _______________ I mine rocks. Bigass rocks. :D
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Undertow Latheus
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Posted - 2008.12.13 15:17:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Undertow Latheus on 13/12/2008 15:17:33
Originally by: Discrodia You do realize, that by giving them the highest DPS you'd kill blasters on the spot? And every gallante would begin flying with your crappy duct-tape guns on their PvP ship?
blasters? you mean rails??
And like i said the boost in DPS would be counteracted by small magazine size and long reload time
what i would like to see is artillery to do better dps than other long range weapons when not factoring in reload time, and for them to do worst dps when factoring in reload time.
as it stands right now, we have worst dps when not factoring reload time, and our dps falls even further behind from the massive drawback of our ammo capacity
EDIT: And yeah, like some other people said, i'd be delighted for artillery to take the heavy damage low rate of fire path, even more so than it is now
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Talen Kross
T Miners
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Posted - 2008.12.13 15:21:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Talen Kross on 13/12/2008 15:21:10 True, MOAR ALPHA please
D'oh I keep hitting the report button instead of the reply button, my bad.
Originally by: "Desi"
Originally by: "spiralJunkie" if Vegeta is going, only I can beat him
You will need to spend atleast 6 episodes powering up before you do that.
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Arkadrell
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Posted - 2008.12.13 15:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Karille I think it's balanced.
I cant tell if this is sarcastic or not... You sure about that?
Artileries have worst tracking? worst optimal (beats haveing falloff, unless your hitting way out of your optimal range which most people dont), worst dps, worst sustained dps due to low ammo clips and the mental anguish that is constantly reloading.
what artiliers has is: (compaired to other gunnery systems) ability to pick damage types to a degree (but missiles have this in a purer form) ability to not use cap (missiles have this too)
missiles have: greater range, no tracking issues, about same sustained dps, and larger ammo sizes.
and yet id say lasers and hybrids are both stronger than missile systems. Artilieres are at the bottom of the food chain, even with ships that have 2x damage bonuses (so they have a chance of catching up dmg wise to other races ships (but in general are behinde still)
this isnt a minmatar whine, even though most agree their ships are, the oppersite of FoTM atm. This is about the weapon system artilieries.
THEY NEED A AMMO CLIP BOOST.
I can live with the lower dps output, the slightly less sustanable dps, the worst tracking and optimal ranges, but for the love of all thats holy PLEASE bigger ammo clips so we wont be reloading half the time!
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Undertow Latheus
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Posted - 2008.12.13 15:37:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Undertow Latheus on 13/12/2008 15:38:06
Originally by: Arkadrell
what artiliers has is: (compaired to other gunnery systems) ability to pick damage types to a degree (but missiles have this in a purer form) ability to not use cap (missiles have this too)
Heres the problem with our being able to pick dmg type though. First, our T2 ammo is still restricted only to explosive, and for T1/Faction ammo, the range is ****ed. You can't stay at your preferred sniping range and simply change out ammo when you see a new enemy, because ammo of different damage types have drastically different ranges, so if you're using Rep fleet Nuclear, and see a shield tanker, then you would have to haul your sniper ass a good 50km going 118m/s so you can shoot him with long range em ammo and counter his tank
Originally by: Arkadrell
THEY NEED A AMMO CLIP BOOST.
I can live with the lower dps output, the slightly less sustanable dps, the worst tracking and optimal ranges, but for the love of all thats holy PLEASE bigger ammo clips so we wont be reloading half the time!
I'm a little opposed to balancing them in this way, i'd rather they get a damage bonus, that way they're better over all and fit the hit and run/skirmish mentality of warfare, a massive short burst of damage.... And I'm a DPS junkie ;)
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Karille
Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.12.13 15:41:00 -
[16]
Unless everything is exactly the same, SOMETHING HAS TO BE WORST.
The tracking is very similar. The dps is very similar. Missile damage doesn't have tracking but now they have reasonable damage reductions for speed. If you shield tank your ship you get easy damage mods.
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Burn Mac
Minmatar The Tuskers
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Posted - 2008.12.13 17:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Karille Unless everything is exactly the same, SOMETHING HAS TO BE WORST.
The tracking is very similar. The dps is very similar. Missile damage doesn't have tracking but now they have reasonable damage reductions for speed. If you shield tank your ship you get easy damage mods.
Something has to be worst at some factor but having it so that artillery is the worst long range gun system in all categories are just meh.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.12.13 17:05:00 -
[18]
Increasing the ammo capacity wouldnt create any balance issues and it would make the game more pleasant to play,
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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Nikita Alterana
Gallente The Antikythera Mechanism
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Posted - 2008.12.13 17:11:00 -
[19]
minmatar in general are weaker then the other races right now, and the entire race is need of some buffs, their caps in particular. __________________________________________________ I was Amarr before they were the FOTM and I'll be Amarr after it! I'm also training Minmatar Capitals! And I eat Lions! |
Undertow Latheus
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Posted - 2008.12.13 17:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Karille Unless everything is exactly the same, SOMETHING HAS TO BE WORST.
The tracking is very similar. The dps is very similar. Missile damage doesn't have tracking but now they have reasonable damage reductions for speed. If you shield tank your ship you get easy damage mods.
I never said i want everything to be the same and for arty to compete with lasers and rails in every way! I want an alpha boost so they have a burst of high dps before having to reload, which fits minmatar mentality, and their tracking and range would still be drawbacks
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Kirex
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.12.13 17:20:00 -
[21]
moar alpha. Arty needs to be like a ****ing CANNON.
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Karille
Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2008.12.13 17:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Undertow Latheus
Originally by: Karille Unless everything is exactly the same, SOMETHING HAS TO BE WORST.
The tracking is very similar. The dps is very similar. Missile damage doesn't have tracking but now they have reasonable damage reductions for speed. If you shield tank your ship you get easy damage mods.
I never said i want everything to be the same and for arty to compete with lasers and rails in every way! I want an alpha boost so they have a burst of high dps before having to reload, which fits minmatar mentality, and their tracking and range would still be drawbacks
Aside from tachyons,(what is up with them?) artillery have the highest volley damage of all the long range turrets.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.12.13 19:13:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Discrodia You do realize, that by giving them the highest DPS you'd kill blasters on the spot? And every gallante would begin flying with your crappy duct-tape guns on their PvP ship?
no the idea should be lowest dps, best alpha, 2nd best tracking, or such.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.12.13 19:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kirex moar alpha. Arty needs to be like a ****ing CANNON.
also in graphics update they have to set off nuke explosions with every hit on the outside of the ship hull
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Jalmari Huitsikko
Caldari Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.12.13 19:23:00 -
[25]
Hai.
I am yet another caldari guy specialized in minmatar spaceships. I think my arty muninn/pest/mael works very well compared to other weapon systems (like lol missiles) thank you.
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