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AMF2
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Posted - 2008.12.13 07:36:00 -
[1]
Edited by: AMF2 on 13/12/2008 07:38:32 Ok the correct title should be "how to make projectile turrets less sucky" Fine I admit it projectiles need a boost more than hyb Boost the ammo,if the minmatar are so handy that they can make bullets that do exp/kn/em/th damage they should at lest do a good job at it,I was thinking at at 20% more damage,example old titanium sabot L-12exp and 24 kn. New titanium sabot L-14.4exp and 28.8kn(yes factional ammo gets the 20% to) Also I think that some factional ammo should be modified,the only differences between caldari navy and federation navy charges is the name,federation navy ammo should more th and less kn damage vice versa for the caldari. Example New federation navy antimatter charge L-27.2 kn and 28 th. New caldari navy antimatter charge L-37.2 kn and 18 th. Or at lest a slight modification of 2-3
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.13 08:21:00 -
[2]
How to make projectile turrets suck less: change all projectile bonuses to laser bonuses. Adjust grid/CPU/cap to match. Problem solved, and Minmatar are the new best race. -----------
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
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Posted - 2008.12.13 08:49:00 -
[3]
A 20% DPS boost to projectiles is a bit much I'd say, as you'd make projectiles do more raw DPS than everybody's favorite lasers (though you'd still have all the fall-off related problems)
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Leandro Salazar
Better Dead Then Smeg
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Posted - 2008.12.13 09:02:00 -
[4]
Imho the problem is not projectiles as a whole but just arties.
ACs are great, them being capless is a great advantage in close combat and a good balance to the below average but still okayish dps.
With arties though, being capless is usually meaningless, and there is no other advantage to counter the **** poor dps, optimal range, tracking and clip size.
So a boost to ammo, while helping arties, would make ACs too powerdul imho. Hence we need to boost the guns. Double the clip size and add 10% more dps and tracking, and maybe we have a competitive weapon system. And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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Eve Noir
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.13 09:19:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Eve Noir on 13/12/2008 09:21:23 20% damage increase is far too much. Bare in mind that will increase damage exponentially when coupled with ships like the Hurricane which get a damage and rof bonus. or have i gotten that wrong?
Tbh I'd settle for a boost to falloff since thats kinda are thing. Also falloff scaling with gun tier would be nice because currently it doesn't.
EG: Dual 180mm AutoCannonII optimal:1920m Falloff:8000m 220mm Vulcan AutoCannonII optimal:2160m Falloff:8000m 425mm AutoCannonII optimal:2400m Falloff:8000m
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Burn Mac
Minmatar The Tuskers
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Posted - 2008.12.13 09:31:00 -
[6]
A simple falloff increase for autocannons whould be good, a slight RoF boost for Artillery and a clip size boost to match.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.12.13 09:49:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Typhado3 on 13/12/2008 09:52:02 Projectiles have problems but I would rather see a boost to minmatar ships or something other than dps than a boost to projectiles dmg. My two main reasons for this is to prevent other races from switching to projectile turrets (projectiles are easy to fit on all races ships (cept for arties high pwg). And the second is to give them a true purpose rather than just another dps ship. Something like a reduction in sig radius or tracking of our turrets, or possibly a boost to our ships to make them useful alpha ships.
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2008.12.13 10:38:00 -
[8]
Megathrons and Amarr BS's are now the used more than Tempests in Fleet action which reflects that they are better now for that role where the Tempest used to be the ship of choice for this before the HP buff. I don't really count the Rokh in this the same way as I don't count the Maelstrom allthough technicly they can fit this role quite well. I don't think anyone reasonable can deny this really.
For shortrange work/RR gangs etc the Typhoon is superior to the Tempest provided you have spent time training the correct skills. It can fit a much better tank and coupled with it's bonus's can outdamage a Tempest especially with it's nice dronebay. The sad thing is you can get more DPS using T2 siege launchers over AC's and this have been reflected in a few battles I have been involved in where myself and another pilot had identicle setups except I favoured AC's.
The Tempest is still be a great ship on paper thouugh and it's bonus's seem balanced so to my mind it has to be the fact that in some way or another Howitzers are subpar. I think this would make enough of a difference to me wanting to use them more.
Tracking boosted by 10% and damage by 5% on Howitzers only and leave AC's as they are.
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EFT Warrior
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Posted - 2008.12.13 10:50:00 -
[9]
Boost damage on artillery by 10-20% (ballpark number). Increase hit quality or chance in falloff so that ships do 50% dps in falloff rather than the current 38%.
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Stefan F
Enrave Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.12.13 11:45:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Stefan F on 13/12/2008 11:45:32 The guns are fine dps-wise as it is them being capless. Maybe a falloff boost to increase overall dps put out without making them close-range gank turrets the blasters are allready. Another way to achieve that may be to change the optimal bonus on the t1 ammo types to a combined optimal and falloff bonus, making it viable for AC users to actually switch ammotypes.
If this is not viable I think the minmatar BS will need a little buff, other ships are fine.
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R'olyat
Gallente Pink Stoned Bunnies
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Posted - 2008.12.14 01:46:00 -
[11]
New Minmatar Racial Bonus on select ships:
Special Ability: 10% increase in fall-off accuracy per level.
New Gunnery skill:
Allows 3% increased accuracy while operating weapons in fall-off. -------------------------
I make sigs! Contact me ingame if you need one made. |
Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.14 01:49:00 -
[12]
Who ever said ACs were bad?
Huh?
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Recruiting
Noobie Piracy Guide |
Trindra
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Posted - 2008.12.14 02:02:00 -
[13]
best way to make proj better is to load faction EMP into them 3 damage type ammo makes proj turtets choice for just about every thing.
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Knawt Ongrid
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Posted - 2008.12.14 02:21:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Knawt Ongrid on 14/12/2008 02:21:59
Originally by: R'olyat New Minmatar Racial Bonus on select ships:
Special Ability: 10% increase in fall-off accuracy per level.
New Gunnery skill:
Allows 3% increased accuracy while operating weapons in fall-off.
Good luck with that. And what would be your suggestion for "New" Amarr, Caldari, and Gallente "Racial Bonuses"?
However, Mr. Mac above has the best suggestion: "A simple falloff increase for autocannons whould be good, a slight RoF boost for Artillery and a clip size boost to match."
A slight increase to base Arty rof, or increasing the standard rof bonus on Minmatar ships to something higher than 5% per level would do it. Also, an increase in clip size would help dps and alleviate the frustration factor with arty.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2008.12.14 11:17:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 14/12/2008 11:17:55 while i think the more sensible thing is some gentle buffing ie: some of the posts above.
the only problem is, you start getting into a territory where there isn't much of a difference between hybrid and proj.
what i would like to see is 1/2 the ROF (as in, instead of one shot ever 8 seconds, one shot every 16 seconds) and double the damage.
Then you would have alpha back. The clip size would make sense. etc etc
edit: for ACs, i think they are ok they way they are tbh. No they aren't the best, but the 'no cap' thing holds weight.
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Urindanger
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Posted - 2008.12.14 16:43:00 -
[16]
A new gunnery skill would be nice. Right now controlled bursts is useless for a mini pilot to train. How about a skill which adds a 10% increase in reloading speed per level. This would buff arties alot while only providing a small bonus to other weapon systems.
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Myrkala
Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous
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Posted - 2008.12.14 17:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Urindanger A new gunnery skill would be nice. Right now controlled bursts is useless for a mini pilot to train. How about a skill which adds a 10% increase in reloading speed per level. This would buff arties alot while only providing a small bonus to other weapon systems.
Or just reduce reloading time on Artillery only. That would give them a buff, and also broaden the way weapons in eve "taste". :P
I'm not sure which would be easier to implement though.
Currently 1400mm II, artillery, assuming LVL 5 skills:
ROF = 9,75 sec Capacity = 0.5 EMP, T2 Ammo volume = 0.05
The gun fits 10 rounds, re-loading takes 10 seconds not including lag of course.
10 x 9,75 = 97,5 seconds
So every 97,5 seconds you need about 10-12 seconds to reload, so you "loose" just over "1 volley's dps" every 97,5 seconds.
If you want to increase DPS by any meaningful amount which do you buff? Capacity or Reload time?
If reload time was 0 like Laser's have DPS increased would be about 10% I think, (This is equal to having unlimited ammo in your gun.)
If the gun capacity was boosted by 100%, DPS increase would be about 5% I would imagine, with diminish returns because of what I said about the unlimited capacity thing.
Also considering a skill that reduces reload time tactical viability of changing ammo type during a fight would increase marginally. Actually if we look at what races would benefit the most from this:
Caldari (Slight benefit.) Minmatar (Slight benefit.)
Gallente (Little benefit.) Amarr (No benefit.)
This is of course because Caldari and Minmatar can select damage type when using Missiles and Projectiles, while the other two can't (Some exceptions ofcourse.)
Now if we look at the skill "Controlled Bursts", which races benefit most from this skill?
Amarr (High benefit.) Gallente (Good benefit.) Caldari (Some benefit.)
Minmatar (No benefit.)
Just some thoughts, I think that the "Reduce reload time" could be balanced nicely, as the DPS increase in blasters is minimal compared to say projectiles, guns with low capacity benefit the most.
Lag will always "pre-nerf" this anyways.
"Ruppie ain't no puppie." |
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.14 18:04:00 -
[18]
Why to make projectile turrets better? Convince me that projectile turrets need a boost.I see no reason to make them better.
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Pulsarr1
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Posted - 2008.12.14 18:15:00 -
[19]
Give artillery instant reloads like lasers and drop the idea of a clip for arty's. Leave all other stats the same. Means instant damage type changes become possible, making the versatile race suddenly more versatile.
Would be cool if this could be done with autocannons, but it would probably make them to powerful, a reduced reload of say 5 seconds or so would make autocannons very nice though.
Why have all this ammo that does different damage types if it's not practical to use it?
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Mra Rednu
Amarr FiFi LaFey Recruitment Services LTD
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Posted - 2008.12.14 18:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Naomi Knight Why to make projectile turrets better? Convince me that projectile turrets need a boost.I see no reason to make them better.
Quite right, no one has actually made a convincing case for anything being wrong, in fact most in this thread seem to think all damage types and capless weapons seem to be a problem !
Think the missing mid slots on the golden fleet of Amarr should be looked for before the too many damage types and no cap use problem of arty get's balanced
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Tal Kjelthorne
Kjelthorne Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.14 18:50:00 -
[21]
Just a thought, but why don't you use the lack of cap need to your advantage and fit energy neuts? I suspect there's a lot of killer possibilities there, especially if you pair or trio up.
I'm a heavy industrialist, not a PvPer, so take my thought with a grain of salt. ___________ I reserve the right to be wrong.
We the Unwilling Lead by the Unknowing... |
Xephys
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Posted - 2008.12.14 18:52:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Xephys on 14/12/2008 18:53:49
Originally by: Mra Rednu
Originally by: Naomi Knight Why to make projectile turrets better? Convince me that projectile turrets need a boost.I see no reason to make them better.
Quite right, no one has actually made a convincing case for anything being wrong, in fact most in this thread seem to think all damage types and capless weapons seem to be a problem !
Think the missing mid slots on the golden fleet of Amarr should be looked for before the too many damage types and no cap use problem of arty get's balanced
Sameposter hi.
Anyway, enough trolling. No, really, go troll C&P
How about letting Artillery be good at something it was supposed be to good at, like Alpha strike. It should really hurt someone to get hit by one round of a Pest's arties, but RoF should be reduced so the DPS stays more or less the same. A little boost in that DPS maybe wouldn't hurt either. Autocannons are fine, I think.
Edit: Sigh, making something capless and **** does not make it balanced. Because our guns are capless, our capacitor is smaller, therefore with the same tank we have the same capabilities to neut as any other ship.
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Knawt Ongrid
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Posted - 2008.12.14 19:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Naomi Knight Why to make projectile turrets better? Convince me that projectile turrets need a boost.I see no reason to make them better.
Sigh. Please create an achura alt, like your undoubtedly 3 charisma achura main, to troll and whine pro-caldari and anti-everyoneelse.
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Mra Rednu
Amarr FiFi LaFey Recruitment Services LTD
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Posted - 2008.12.14 19:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Xephys
Sameposter hi.
Anyway, enough trolling. No, really, go troll C&P
How about letting Artillery be good at something it was supposed be to good at, like Alpha strike. It should really hurt someone to get hit by one round of a Pest's arties, but RoF should be reduced so the DPS stays more or less the same. A little boost in that DPS maybe wouldn't hurt either. Autocannons are fine, I think.
Sorry diferent poster and not a troll, maybe you should go to c&p.
Now i guess i could claim you are the same poster as anyone else in here who thinks they same as you, but i am not so ignorant as you come across.
Seriously you got all damage types and capless weapons on racial ships which in most instance's have got speed advantage and the ability to be dry of cap and still dealing damage, you nuet me dry and i'm dead in the water, hell in most case's you not even have to nuet me as we run ourselves dry in a lengthy engagement.
So while Arty not got the alpha it used to would you trade a great alpha for arty using cap or just the 2 damage types ?
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Xephys
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Posted - 2008.12.14 19:10:00 -
[25]
First of all, lrn2grammar, second, why do you think everyone who snipes in large fleets switched over to Apocs? While sniping, you're not going to get neuted, nor are you going to have any decent tank. What's left for the Pest... An alpha strike which provides amazingly crappy results.
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ViperVenom
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.14 19:20:00 -
[26]
2 Things.. 1)Make a bigger clip for Arts 2)Better tracking id be very very happy. No need for a wall of text here.
--Yarring in a system near you--
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.12.14 19:41:00 -
[27]
ACs are fine. Low DPS, high falloff, best tracking, super high rof.
Artillery needs to have its ROF decreaced, its damage multiplyer increaced, and its optimal increaced very slightly. The ROF - Damage relationship should still make the overall DPS the same as it is now - just more alpha.
Atillery should hurt when it connects - the tracking should remain terrible.
----
ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense. |
ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.14 19:43:00 -
[28]
for me a good minni boost would be 1. boost clip size on artys. 2. increase range on artys. 3. rework falloff so minni dps get boosted that way. simple fact is that minni guns have good enough dps as long as the target stays in optimal(but do you really want to be in a megas optimal), so a simple fix as to the dps loss you get in falloff would actually help a lot
Originally by: deadmaus
Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything |
Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.12.14 19:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe for me a good minni boost would be 1. boost clip size on artys. 2. increase range on artys. 3. rework falloff so minni dps get boosted that way. simple fact is that minni guns have good enough dps as long as the target stays in optimal(but do you really want to be in a megas optimal), so a simple fix as to the dps loss you get in falloff would actually help a lot
no, that makes the DPS on projectiles too good. . .they are supposed to have the lowest dps. But yah, artillery needs a little buff. . .but not much - they are actually verry strong still. . .they just can't compete with the guns from other races in fleet action. ----
ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense. |
goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.14 20:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin How to make projectile turrets suck less: change all projectile bonuses to laser bonuses. Adjust grid/CPU/cap to match. Problem solved, and Minmatar are the new best race.
This reminds me of the apoc.
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