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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:34:00 -
[871]
Edited by: Shintai on 11/12/2008 17:35:48 4 years is an emo rumour.
Anyway, T2 materials like ferrogel and fermonics seems to go back to summer prices.
Result is basicly just that HACs will be back to some 90-100mil area.
Looking on the market I would say this have been used as an exploit for 3-6 months.
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Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Altemi Calabre
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:35:00 -
[872]
Originally by: Rethyl
I'm certainly willing to believe this bug has *existed* for years, but I'm not convinced yet that people have been exploiting it on a wide scale for years.
Alright, but the issue then becomes the definition of wide scale doesn't it Rethyl?
A 4 year span for the right people to be abusing this type of 'free money' model has a massive scale of impact over time in it's disruption of economic variables, alliance warfare feasibility, and so on.
Not solely through giving that side a competitive advantage. Many rules of the universe are based upon inherent opportunity costs of choice for the player base. If this has been throwing off valuations of these opportunity costs by artificially increasing availability of key elements, that could have affected considerations on all sorts of mechanics over the past 3 years (assuming it took a year for the effects to really trickle out).
I agree that to assume thousands of knowing guilty parties may be a leap (or maybe not if it's 1 guy with five isk paid for accounts jacking up the multiplier) but I think it's just as much of a mistake not to recognize that IF the time scale is correct, this invalidates or questions big chunks of economic components and information used to make game shaping decisions by CCP.
Either way, their actions from here on are going to be... Interesting.
~ Why is it those with the greatest responsibility to make good decisions so often seem the least capable or inclined?
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MyOwnSling
Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:35:00 -
[873]
Originally by: Rramar Claime
Originally by: Leopold Caine "On December 7th 2008, a date which will live in infamy, a petition from a concerned player alerted us to a serious problem with Starbase reactors"
So it could've been up to 5 days max, perhaps more. I'm not a trader, but who confirmed the date when the exploit started?
Leo just read around a bit :) fortunately eve is bigger than eve-o forums :)
It didn't come from CCP, just some guy who got banned, so it's far from a confirmation. ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Originally by: MooKids I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Trinity Council.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:35:00 -
[874]
Originally by: Ephemeron TQ reset would make the game pretty interesting, everything would be new again, no super cap fleets, no POS in every 0.0 system, no jump bridges, no titans, no jump freighters. Lots of t1 ships. Fair play for all.
What's not to like?
because in two weeks i will be flying the deimos, and that would really suck
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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Havlentia Castigatrix
Gallente The Avalon Foundation Delta.Green
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:36:00 -
[875]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler The petition had been filed five days earlier, a far longer waiting time than we can accept with our current queue status and we have now taken measures to fix that.
What measures?
I speak as someone who has been told that the logs 'show nothing' when I've suffered from bugs and situations in game; I assume that you had a 'starbase exploit' log that showed the issue in full technicolor?
Sorry for the snarky tone...I blame the environment. Kudos for bolting the door on the empty barn, though.
----- This space left intentionally blank |
dibblebill
Mercenaries International Alliance Overtime Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:38:00 -
[876]
Thank god I got my Manticore and T2 fittings earlier this week.
Thank you, CCP, for fixing this, even if what some say is true and things have been going on for awhile. Its always nice to know some games try to fix their problems. But a list of offenders or a better analysis of impending effects would be very nice. ---Signature--- I have turned my back upon the State and their sins. If you enroach upon my freedom, prepare to fight for your life. |
Dr Fujikara
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:39:00 -
[877]
Another massive, glaring failure by CCP. Who here is surprised?
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War Kitten
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:40:00 -
[878]
Originally by: peoples Stuff
Proof or stfu!
Can I has everyones stuffs? |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:41:00 -
[879]
Originally by: Princess Jodi
This type of Punishment for the exploiters is what I'm suggesting happens to their Eve empires.
That's one macabre sense of humour!
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Kal'Kalagan
Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:42:00 -
[880]
Edited by: Kal''Kalagan on 11/12/2008 17:42:33 edited..
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Rramar Claime
Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:43:00 -
[881]
Originally by: MyOwnSling
It didn't come from CCP, just some guy who got banned, so it's far from a confirmation.
meh lol?? :D oh well CCP didnt admit it so its not true? CCP never lies. CCP wants world peace and all that is good, not your money and subscription fee.
But seriously, you really dont think CCP would ever admit this was going on for 4 years if it was true, do you? :D I think i dont have to bring examples from CCP's past :)
------- "I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes." |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:45:00 -
[882]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Update: This matter will be brought up at a CSM and CCP meeting this upcoming weekend.
Note this line which was added to the op.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:46:00 -
[883]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
Originally by: Ephemeron TQ reset would make the game pretty interesting, everything would be new again, no super cap fleets, no POS in every 0.0 system, no jump bridges, no titans, no jump freighters. Lots of t1 ships. Fair play for all.
What's not to like?
because in two weeks i will be flying the deimos, and that would really suck
Deimos is still the most disadvantaged HAC, so at least price changes aren't going to be such a big deal for you thanks to lower demand (possibly.) Personally I'm wondering if I should just buy my Cerb and Eagle now instead of waiting another 19 days until I get Caldari Cruiser 5. I remember a time when both of those ships were just over 100 mil but right now they're still sitting pretty at 65-75.
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Bodhisattvas
Crepitus Ventris
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:47:00 -
[884]
Originally by: War Kitten
Originally by: peoples Stuff
Proof or stfu!
Can I has everyones stuffs?
Stuffs all gotted emo tear damage!! worthless now!
Stuffs is all broked and too expensive to make more stuffs!!
Unbroked stuffs is gonna be worth the more nows!!!
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Kuar Z'thain
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:47:00 -
[885]
So... wheres the lynch mob to go after Evoke?
Guess it's not fun when the target isn't BoB.
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Orree
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:51:00 -
[886]
Originally by: Mr Manufacture well, Morsus Mihi sure were rich for an alliance with such AWFUL space
weren't they...
lets think about that a bit... how did they fund 8 titans from a region with 1 high end moon and no decent mining?
answers on a postcard
Yes..let's think about it a bit.
In comparison to many other regions in the game, Tribute is one of the worst regions in the game in terms of resources. However, it is still 0.0 space. While high-end moon minerals are not bountiful, we do have lots of mid-range...and money can be made from that as well.
We have a fair amount of crockite and mercoxit. Zyd has been the best selling high-end mineral, especially during morphite's low points. By all accounts, we're carebears who can't fight, so we must be doing something with all our time, right? After all, we have had a mothership caught in a belt, haven't we?
You are also aware that there's been a Gurista's 10/10 complex in Tribute, as well..and at least 8/10 fairly close by until the static ones were dropped from the game.
Tribute's close proximity to Jita is incredibly useful for industrial applications. Another thing we do well because we can't fight (obviously).
Up until about 4 months ago, RAWR has pretty much been completely unmolested at home and had been so for most of two years dating back to the short war with TCF.
Since that conflict, we've been absolutely maniacal about fortifying Tribute. Along with that fortification has come pos infrastructure and avid supercap building. Supercaps have been sold for profit and converted into a number of things, including titans.
Lets also consider, for instance...that just about every corp in RAWR is an old corp or is a merger of old corps. This means lots of T2 income...lots of fairly rich people even before moon-mining came to be...even before RAWR came to be. Our recruiting strategy has been to accept very few corps and all of them have to be absolutely self-sufficient. RAWR leadership is made up of many older professionals who have basically brought their out-of-game expertise into the game and helped build a very strong alliance that sets goals and meets those goals. In short, we're about as stable as they come.
Pretty much everything we do go right back into building a stronger RAWR, not lining anyone's pockets. My own corp isn't even one of the richest ones in RAWR or EVE, but we can meet our vast alliance requirements, corp requirements and still build titans to use or sell. Make no mistake...its a big job that takes a lot of effort. It also have very little to do with moon-mining.
So..you can look at the forgoing and draw your own reasonable conclusions...or you can grind your little axe and smear us with zero proof. The choice is yours.
For my part, if anyone in RAWR is complicit in ANY of this, I'll be first in line to condemn them for being cheaters. I'm certain that's the prevalent feeling among my fellow RAWR pilots.
"How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli |
Shadoo
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:51:00 -
[887]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain So... wheres the lynch mob to go after Evoke?
Guess it's not fun when the target isn't BoB.
I say we form a lynch mob to go after BoB anyway. You know, just because!
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Sgt Napalm
Synergy Evolved Strength in Numbers.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:51:00 -
[888]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain So... wheres the lynch mob to go after Evoke?
Guess it's not fun when the target isn't BoB.
What is there to lynch?
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Mariokoli Mianana
Gallente Cloak and Daggers Ocularis Inferno
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:52:00 -
[889]
Originally by: Madius
Originally by: Mara Kell
5 days is a alot of time to bring down abusive POSes isnt it? I hope that no one escaped the investigations that way.
If CCP has a halfway decent logging/tracking system (and they better) it won't matter if POSes get offlined.
Christ, people rag on Blizzard, but they can pull up things you said months ago in chat or trace money/item transfers across dozens of accounts and characters, you'd hope CCP would be at least be able to see who was benefiting from the resources beyond the accounts directly tied to the exploiting.
Check out this Bruce Schneier article regarding audits. It is a great article about something that applies in this very scenario.
When something makes it through QA and ends up released and exploitable, the thing that will help to ensure that people are playing fair and report, rather than use, possible exploits is to have a good auditing system.
Using the segments from the Schneier article, I'd have to say that CCP would fall in the middle category. They were able to reverse and use audits to figure out who had been doing what and where, but they didn't have valuable warning flag audits for this sort of thing. I think that the "Research & Statistics" group should not only be focusing on understanding micro/macro-economics through EVE, but also in developing prophylactic audit warnings, noting when something goes out of band and warrants investigation without relying almost solely on whistle-blowers filing petitions.
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Kuar Z'thain
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:55:00 -
[890]
Originally by: Shadoo
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain So... wheres the lynch mob to go after Evoke?
Guess it's not fun when the target isn't BoB.
I say we form a lynch mob to go after BoB anyway. You know, just because!
We've been waiting since you left. And your little roaming excursions to Delve to harass carebears don't count.
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Twoside
Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:55:00 -
[891]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain So... wheres the lynch mob to go after Evoke?
Guess it's not fun when the target isn't BoB.
it's a fact this bug has been petitioned multiple times in the past. This, and CCPs history of using the ban and exploit stick per agenda, leads a lot to think that this bug was willingly put aside to serve ones agenda. Some apparently cashed in enough now, pulled down their own POSs and petitioned.
I wonder whose agenda this serves best ^^
(but yeah, tinfoil time4sure) |
Troubadour
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:55:00 -
[892]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
Originally by: Ephemeron TQ reset would make the game pretty interesting, everything would be new again, no super cap fleets, no POS in every 0.0 system, no jump bridges, no titans, no jump freighters. Lots of t1 ships. Fair play for all.
What's not to like?
because in two weeks i will be flying the deimos, and that would really suck
umm, buy one now?
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Intrepid Reporter
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Posted - 2008.12.11 17:56:00 -
[893]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain So... wheres the lynch mob to go after Evoke?
Guess it's not fun when the target isn't BoB.
Unfortunately we can't, as this time CCP already did the correct action by banning the cheaters responsible. I know, sometimes it is fun to rabble rouse and all, but it is kinda hard with the rather tight and strict moderation that goes on around here.
Luckily there's an organization out there willing to discuss important political events in EVE without filtering out the average player's opinions.
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Hczer
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:01:00 -
[894]
The economic crisis is now in-game
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Calatrava
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:03:00 -
[895]
Some one has buy 200 zealots on the forge.
Coincidence?
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Kuar Z'thain
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:04:00 -
[896]
Originally by: Intrepid Reporter
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain So... wheres the lynch mob to go after Evoke?
Guess it's not fun when the target isn't BoB.
Unfortunately we can't, as this time CCP already did the correct action by banning the cheaters responsible. I know, sometimes it is fun to rabble rouse and all, but it is kinda hard with the rather tight and strict moderation that goes on around here.
T20 was reprimanded, too. You still wont let BoB live that one down.
At least show some consistency.
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Sgt Napalm
Synergy Evolved Strength in Numbers.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:05:00 -
[897]
Who was the second alliance involved?
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MyOwnSling
Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:07:00 -
[898]
Originally by: Rramar Claime
meh lol?? :D oh well CCP didnt admit it so its not true?
Hardly, but you completely missed the point. How is that one guy a credible source? We have no reason to believe him. But in the end, you may be right about CCP, in which case we may never know the full truth. I am reserving judgement until they finish their investigation, but atm it doesn't look like we are getting much :/ ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Originally by: MooKids I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
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Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:08:00 -
[899]
Originally by: Orree *snip*
Orree, take it from me - it doesn't matter what you say. To some, you are guilty, to others, you are innocent, nothing you say will change that.
To the rest of us, you're innocent until proven guilty / banned.
May as well save your breath mate, CCP are the only people that can clear / condemn you... and even then, the first paragraph still holds true ;)
Originally by: Shadoo
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain So... wheres the lynch mob to go after Evoke?
Guess it's not fun when the target isn't BoB.
I say we form a lynch mob to go after BoB anyway. You know, just because!
+1!!! Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
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OK USA
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:09:00 -
[900]
So these guys **** up the market and take advantage of a huge exploit and CCP won't name them?
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