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Kuzya Morozov
Gallente L8L8L8
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Posted - 2008.12.10 01:51:00 -
[1]
Obviously Caldari Large tower is not the best for defending against stuff. Hi-sec pos to fend off a BS fleet, what is best for shooting non-moving BS, Cruise or Torp batteries?
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Johnny Rockefeller
Builders League United
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Posted - 2008.12.10 06:03:00 -
[2]
I think the standard wisdom is guns >> missiles, even on Caldari towers. Check out this thread for more specific ideas on defense setups.
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Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.12.10 08:44:00 -
[3]
For non moving BS torps are better, as those batteries have damage multiplier, while cruise batteries get their modifers to missile signature and explosion velocity. However - torpedo range sucks, as those batteries were designed 2 quite serious missile changes ago.
They did up a bit torpedo battery flight time bonus during previous change, but they lost a lot of their previous range to the point where any BS can just sit outside their range and still but relatively decent damage on the batteries. Currently torpedo battery has range of exactly 90 km (but activation proximity 350 km), 2.5x damage multiplier, 50% explosion velocity modifer and -25% explosion radius modifer.
Unfortunately caldary tower is seriously lacking in grid size to mount any serious defence with guns. So your best bet is annoyance in hi sec empire. Or in other words:
5x hardeners 6x warp scramblers 20x ECM batteries 10x sensor dampeners 2..4 small guns 0..4x webs some topedoes + some cruise missiles Anchor (and load with ammo) A LOT of small guns plus fill the tower with strontsium. If you get reinforced online the guns during reinforcment timer. You need surpulus for the case that your attackers are nuts enough to try to disable them all - just put up enough so they would be spending next 2 days doing it. Small guns are cheap. You need ammo in those guns beforehand, bcos you can't put ammo into new guns you anchor during reinforced timer. You can online them tho during reinforced timer as they dont take cpu.
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Raindeth
FACTION Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.10 11:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Carniflex
Unfortunately caldary tower is seriously lacking in grid size to mount any serious defence with guns. So your best bet is annoyance in hi sec empire. Or in other words:
5x hardeners 6x warp scramblers 20x ECM batteries 10x sensor dampeners 2..4 small guns 0..4x webs some topedoes + some cruise missiles Anchor (and load with ammo) A LOT of small guns plus fill the tower with strontsium. If you get reinforced online the guns during reinforcment timer. You need surpulus for the case that your attackers are nuts enough to try to disable them all - just put up enough so they would be spending next 2 days doing it. Small guns are cheap. You need ammo in those guns beforehand, bcos you can't put ammo into new guns you anchor during reinforced timer. You can online them tho during reinforced timer as they dont take cpu.
With respect, I'm gonna call this nonsense. The reason you have a caldari tower is for the CPU. The above poster just ate up all your CPU which you would otherwise be using for labs or whatever. This is a highsec POS. You want to make a BS fleet balk? Mount 4 Large Artillery Batteries and 8 small autocannons (on the 6 axis points) and a couple warp disruptors. Have a corp-mate train POS weapons and you'll be fine.
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.12.10 12:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Raindeth With respect, I'm gonna call this nonsense. The reason you have a caldari tower is for the CPU. The above poster just ate up all your CPU which you would otherwise be using for labs or whatever. This is a highsec POS. You want to make a BS fleet balk? Mount 4 Large Artillery Batteries and 8 small autocannons (on the 6 axis points) and a couple warp disruptors. Have a corp-mate train POS weapons and you'll be fine.
LOL
You keep most of the weapons off-lined and on-line them when you get the war-dec. Remember we are talking high-sec here so there is a 24 hour time frame to prep the POS for an attack. As for the large guns without webs you won't be hitting anything with capital size weapons.
Large POS guns = Capital Medium POS guns = Battleship Small POS guns = Cruiser, Battlecruiser
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Yurda Dei
Central Logistics and Insider Trading Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.10 13:05:00 -
[6]
Maybe I am missing something, but why would anyone need large POS weapons in hisec space? Considering that BSs are the largest warships that you will encounter, large weapons seem to be a waste.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2008.12.10 16:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Raindeth
Originally by: Carniflex
Unfortunately caldary tower is seriously lacking in grid size to mount any serious defence with guns. So your best bet is annoyance in hi sec empire. Or in other words:
5x hardeners 6x warp scramblers 20x ECM batteries 10x sensor dampeners 2..4 small guns 0..4x webs some topedoes + some cruise missiles Anchor (and load with ammo) A LOT of small guns plus fill the tower with strontsium. If you get reinforced online the guns during reinforcment timer. You need surpulus for the case that your attackers are nuts enough to try to disable them all - just put up enough so they would be spending next 2 days doing it. Small guns are cheap. You need ammo in those guns beforehand, bcos you can't put ammo into new guns you anchor during reinforced timer. You can online them tho during reinforced timer as they dont take cpu.
With respect, I'm gonna call this nonsense. The reason you have a caldari tower is for the CPU. The above poster just ate up all your CPU which you would otherwise be using for labs or whatever. This is a highsec POS. You want to make a BS fleet balk? Mount 4 Large Artillery Batteries and 8 small autocannons (on the 6 axis points) and a couple warp disruptors. Have a corp-mate train POS weapons and you'll be fine.
As someone who has shot dozens of towers, and had mine shot at. What you just wrote, was the real nonsense.
Large batteries are useless vs BS's for starters. 8 small guns is too many. Minmatar weapons while fine for balancing damage types, lose to hybrids for damage per grid usage on non minmatar towers. An even mix of hybrids / projectiles is better. If you were going to even suggest large weaponry (oversized for BS's) you can't even begin to do anything with them without some web batteries.
At least some ECM is definitely worthwhile on a large POS, and the extra hardners / ECM is for when the tower is attacked, assuming you are around. You can also get in 10 ECM batteries for each normal lab, so losing 1 lab on a large POS is usually worthwhile.
How much defense you need, really depends on how much of a target you are.
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Arnold Kruger
Superior Systems
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Posted - 2008.12.10 21:27:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Arnold Kruger on 10/12/2008 21:27:22 I found this link helpful.
Edit: Oh, someone already posted it. *shrug* Oh well :) - - SUPERIOR SYSTEMS: BPO sales, research, copying, and delivery! |
Kuzya Morozov
Gallente L8L8L8
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Posted - 2008.12.10 23:31:00 -
[9]
So torps over cruises for damage? Thanks for all the other advice as well.
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.12.12 09:19:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kuzya Morozov So torps over cruises for damage? Thanks for all the other advice as well.
No,
You won't be hitting anything with the torp. Use guns or don't use at all, missiles use CPU, tower gets attacked and offlined and no more CPU which means no more torp or cruise.
Use guns...use guns....I don't care if the caldari has a bonus to missiles...use guns.
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Xindi Kraid
Cerulean Sky Fire Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.12 09:43:00 -
[11]
Be advised that if they reinforce your tower the launchers go offline, so even though it gets bonuses to missiles, its a very good idea to keep guns around even if they are offline. ECM is always a good idea but that too will go offline
Don't fool yourself, a Caldari tower is largley screwed if it comes under fire. It's good for highsec research because of the CPU, but for lowsec operations get a different racial tower. -Xindi Kraid CSFI lead engineer and shipwright
Improve POS cargo access |
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.12.12 13:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Xindi Kraid Be advised that if they reinforce your tower the launchers go offline, so even though it gets bonuses to missiles, its a very good idea to keep guns around even if they are offline. ECM is always a good idea but that too will go offline
Don't fool yourself, a Caldari tower is largley screwed if it comes under fire. It's good for highsec research because of the CPU, but for lowsec operations get a different racial tower.
Yeah - not sensible in low sec, however, you can actually defend hi sec caldary tower if you happen to get there during an attack and have pos gunners. After reinforced ... well ... the usual POS dance, you would prolly need defence gang. Does not need to be as big as attackers as you will have guns on your size.
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Xindi Kraid
Cerulean Sky Fire Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.12 14:04:00 -
[13]
The whole gunner thing applies to all towers though. Unmanned the guns pick anything at random, Large guns try to hit frigates while the pea-shooter small guns try to take on battleships -Xindi Kraid CSFI lead engineer and shipwright
Improve POS cargo access |
Dal Thrax
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2008.12.12 17:16:00 -
[14]
A Caldari tower has 50,000,000 shields. You will need to use a long range BS to be able to hit the tower. Lets charitably assign this BS 500 DPS. Without taking any native POS resists into account it would take 18.5 battleship/hours to get the shields to 1/3. If you tripled harden the POS across all resists you will increase the time to reinforce by 1.25 * 1.20 * 1.125 =1.6875. This pushes the time to 31.25 battleship/hours. But your POS is has a native resist bonus to both Kinetic and Thermal damage. Those of very common damage types. A good estimate is that the native resists will increase the time to put the POS under by 25%. That gives us about 40 Battleship/Hours.
So it'll take a 10 man BS gang at least 4 hours to put your POS under. Reality is it's going to be very hard for a ranged BS gang to keep up high DPS and a high volume of fire for several hours straight. Throw on some warp disruptors, token guns and a bit of EWAR and the other side is likely to give hitting the POS a pass.
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