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Tertius Caedes
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.02 17:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Tertius Caedes on 02/12/2008 17:26:17
With the new boost of these ship classes you broke the balacing. These ships are nearly unkillable with cruiser size weapons. You can web and target paint the ships and you never kill them.
After some test with a friend we decided to go on an roam. We choosed Harpy and Claw. Our first targets where Rapier and Arazu. We thought hey lets suicide on this ships. But we killed both.
killboard link
I think the boost was alot to much. I can kill with my Harpy nearly every Hac now :/
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.12.02 17:35:00 -
[2]
you cant be serious
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rValdez5987
Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
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Posted - 2008.12.02 19:30:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Tertius Caedes Edited by: Tertius Caedes on 02/12/2008 17:26:17
With the new boost of these ship classes you broke the balacing. These ships are nearly unkillable with cruiser size weapons. You can web and target paint the ships and you never kill them.
After some test with a friend we decided to go on an roam. We choosed Harpy and Claw. Our first targets where Rapier and Arazu. We thought hey lets suicide on this ships. But we killed both.
killboard link
I think the boost was alot to much. I can kill with my Harpy nearly every Hac now :/
i just want to add. that i fly a punisher regularly. recently i killed four t2 frigates (ares, claw, jaguar, harpy) in a 4 v 1 fight.
They were easily dispatched after being nailed by an overheated scrambler, and my dual rep tank and 1200 hp of armor kept me alive plenty long enough to melt through their untanked ships at around 80 dps.
this obviously wasn't possible before QR, but im not complaining
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Irigom
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Posted - 2008.12.03 00:47:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Irigom on 03/12/2008 00:48:35
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 01:50:00 -
[5]
Very funny.
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Miss Marketing
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.12.03 02:40:00 -
[6]
The most retarted part is that even in a rapier with double webs, you can't kill a scrambling inty or AF. That MWD shutoff is bull$hit and gives these little sig radius ships a huge advantage given the fact that you can't close the difference in speeds between cruisers and frigs now.
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Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 07:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Miss Marketing The most retarted part is that even in a rapier with double webs, you can't kill a scrambling inty or AF. That MWD shutoff is bull$hit and gives these little sig radius ships a huge advantage given the fact that you can't close the difference in speeds between cruisers and frigs now.
So, I can kill AFs in my erm, combat fitted Scimitar that has 2 gun slots and a few drones, but a a Huggin/Rapier can't ? Sounds like it's the rapier/huggin pilot that has the issues, not ship balance.
/Riv
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Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 10:27:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks on 03/12/2008 10:33:42 If an (even QR) Rapier/Arazu combo cannot kill at least 1 of a frig combo, than they obviously suck. You just met failed recon pilots, thats all.
I remember a Tri Rapier (post QR) landed in our bubble. We were camping it with 2 AFs + noob piloted Rifter. Rifter almost poped and had to bail out of fight. Tri pilot managed to gain distance (probably overloaded his mwd) and started a fight. We killed almost all of his drones but could not get in range. Finaly Rapier disengaged.
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craig0ss
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Posted - 2008.12.03 11:40:00 -
[9]
Edited by: craig0ss on 03/12/2008 11:40:05 Well,
After the patch i upgraded my hawk fitting with a faction AF and a Faction SB, its pretty hard (near Imposs) to kill with a bs, even with TP's and Neuts :)
However after my head grew after testing it against a friends raven with diff setups i decided to take it to a freindly gate camp,
Got WTFOMFGPWNDED by a zealot in about 4 seconds!
So these ships do have there weak points, and die very very quickly when they are exploited by the enemy, which makes eve interesting because there is no be all and end all ship/type :D
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Sirokko
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:35:00 -
[10]
so, long range weapons can't hit dual webbed frigs orbiting with ABs at 500m?
seems alright to me.
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Nikolae Varius
Amarr Exiled. Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.12.03 16:43:00 -
[11]
Cleverly veiled epeen troll. I like.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tertius Caedes Edited by: Tertius Caedes on 02/12/2008 17:26:17
With the new boost of these ship classes you broke the balacing. These ships are nearly unkillable with cruiser size weapons. You can web and target paint the ships and you never kill them.
After some test with a friend we decided to go on an roam. We choosed Harpy and Claw. Our first targets where Rapier and Arazu. We thought hey lets suicide on this ships. But we killed both.
killboard link
I think the boost was alot to much. I can kill with my Harpy nearly every Hac now :/
The rapier is fail:
1. He's using x5 webs. 2. He should have three webs for effectively stopping speed of anything. 3. He wasn't fitted for smaller skrimish; he had arty instead of ac and cyno gen.
whooptidooo gj... ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Tertius Caedes
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.03 18:36:00 -
[13]
Medium AC didnŠt hit dual webbed frigs. So you have to fit small ones.
And 3 webs? are you serious? With this setup you nearly have no tank. This enagagement is just an example, try it with a mate, you will see its nerly impossible to kill small ships with ALL cruiser size guns. You only have to orbit at 500m.
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.12.03 19:37:00 -
[14]
Force recon ships are not designed to be strong combat ships, they are support ships. It seems perfectly appropriate to me that they would get killed by a couple of combat ships, even if those ships are frigate sized. ----------------------------------------------------
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Lysander Kaldenn
Viper Intel Squad Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2008.12.03 22:17:00 -
[15]
Fit Warrior 2s. Done.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.12.03 23:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn Fit Warrior 2s. Done.
I dunno about you but I can tank a flight of those in a Retribution, with nothing but a sar2 fitted for tank. Even if they do manage to lay some damage on me they tend to go pop pop really fast.
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Cpt Constantinus
Celestial Janissaries
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Posted - 2008.12.03 23:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Originally by: Lysander Kaldenn Fit Warrior 2s. Done.
I dunno about you but I can tank a flight of those in a Retribution, with nothing but a sar2 fitted for tank. Even if they do manage to lay some damage on me they tend to go pop pop really fast.
Erm...the Retri is hardly the problem. 1 midslot ftw :) Ah well, and just use hobgoblins. They make short work of Retris.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.03 23:51:00 -
[18]
As said above, Force Recons shouldn't be great combat ships. A test with a Huginn and a Lachesis would be more accurate.
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.12.04 00:37:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 04/12/2008 00:37:41
Originally by: Tertius Caedes Medium AC didnŠt hit dual webbed frigs. So you have to fit small ones.
And 3 webs? are you serious? With this setup you nearly have no tank. This enagagement is just an example, try it with a mate, you will see its nerly impossible to kill small ships with ALL cruiser size guns. You only have to orbit at 500m.
A tripple web fitted, ac fitted rapier will obliterate any frig. Yeah I'm serious. You obviously do not know what tripple web does to your speed. And tank? Rapier has no tank anyway ,when things go wrong you die. Shieldextender or not. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
doctorstupid2
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.12.04 01:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You obviously do not know what tripple web does to your speed.
Let me guess, is it about -89.28856%?
Abusive | Deadspace | Deadspace2 |
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speed creature
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.12.04 01:27:00 -
[21]
well. i agree with the op.
it isn't balanced right.
i engaged a caldari AF in my rupture (garmon fit) bout 350dps 1600plate. dual 180II's small neut. MWD(?) 1web 24km point. i kept my distance at first to test the water. kept him at /17km sure his dps was noting fantastic but his t2 rockets were still hitting me. where as my (best tracking medium auto's ) landed about a total of 8 shots. by the time im dipping into armor he's laughing to himself... i aint happy.
i closed the gap webd his sorry ass(T2 WEB) and switched to emp for better tracking. attempted to keep him at about 7km but with no mwd it wasnt happening. ANYWAY he had friends that arrived evenctually more AF'S . but you know as long it it took them to kill me ( it was a while) i bet i didnt land anymore than 15 shots in total. it laughed at my warrior II's . and basically won the fight without even breaking a sweat.
now if that is the AF'S new role so be it. the problem i have is now my vagabond/rapier! muninn/ slep/ even my beloved hurricane are all mincemeat if solo to a properly fitted proplerly flown AF.. not right.
now get yourself a amarr battlecruiser pit it against the same AF'S and it hits the AF'S all day long even when unwebbed. unless you get a very very tight orbit where you can get lucky. WTF BOOST AMArr
i know i am *****ing about it the wrong way. but it was suggested on these boards to fit smaller guns for this ****. LOL. yea ok. i fit small guns to my rupture lose the bonuses from the ship. and do LESS damage with my guns than my bloody wolf did !!!.
comeon. you know it;'s broken the people sayin it aint sodding know it too they just enjoy flying there cheap ass disposable AF's too much to admit it. whereas i miss all the other ships i trained for. you made low sec pvp turn into AF's online at the moment. and made combat in general exactly like the disposable nature that gets uinbred to players thru flying ****ty ****s with ****ty fits in FW.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists
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Posted - 2008.12.04 01:54:00 -
[22]
Originally by: doctorstupid2
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You obviously do not know what tripple web does to your speed.
Let me guess, is it about -89.28856%?
Yeah, wich pretty much nails a frig to its place enough to violate it. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
doctorstupid2
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.12.04 02:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: doctorstupid2
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You obviously do not know what tripple web does to your speed.
Let me guess, is it about -89.28856%?
Yeah, wich pretty much nails a frig to its place enough to violate it.
Do i get a gold star?
And I agree the recon pilots in question are failorific. Admittedly AF's and ceptors are a lot more of a threat than they used to be to larger ships, but not to that extent.
Abusive | Deadspace | Deadspace2 |
Alex Medvedov
Minmatar Subjugation
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Posted - 2008.12.04 08:29:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Alex Medvedov on 04/12/2008 08:30:40
Originally by: speed creature well. i agree with the op.
it isn't balanced right.
i engaged a caldari AF in my rupture (garmon fit) bout 350dps 1600plate. dual 180II's small neut. MWD(?) 1web 24km point. i kept my distance at first to test the water. kept him at /17km sure his dps was noting fantastic but his t2 rockets were still hitting me. where as my (best tracking medium auto's ) landed about a total of 8 shots. by the time im dipping into armor he's laughing to himself... i aint happy.
I can say taht before the patch low sec was more or less like Cruiser online... Iam perfectly fine with the fact AF is more than capable of killing t1 Cruiser, because AFs are more expensive. And if you want you can always put small guns on your Cruiser and owe any AF attempting to attack you. I cant do likewise on my AF (eg. I cant fit mediums to sucessfully combat Cruisers... and i know i dont need to nowdays but before the patch things were different). So dont tell me t1 Cruiser should be better than AF, because if you let it happen AF would sucks no matter anything else. Back to the topic - Recon ships killed by AFs... well i would like to know if you were able to kill that rapier 1v1 if no i would be ok with that, because in my opinion it was more like ceptor and af vs badly fitted Rapier, I dont think Arazu was very helpful there...
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Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.12.04 11:24:00 -
[25]
In pre-QR times I tested a Arty-Rapier against a AF on QR enabled Sisi. I managed to dictate range (2 webs) and even landed some critical hits with 650mm on it. Range + small drones + arty = quick frigate death, even in our times.
In current case we have a (potential) squadron of 10 small drones !! + two recon ships vs. two frigates. If those two recon pilots have problems killing two frigates..well they probably should change their ships and gain some experience.
Originally by: Alex Medvedov I dont think Arazu was very helpful there...
Again , think of small drones. 10 small drones on a webbed frigate...you can imagine the pain.
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.04 12:01:00 -
[26]
Well most use warrior IIs so having a good explosive tank and a repper does give you an edge vs drones. :) "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.12.04 20:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hyveres Well most use warrior IIs so having a good explosive tank and a repper does give you an edge vs drones. :)
Warrior IIs are used best against inties. Hobgoblins for slower frigs. ----------------------------------------- [Video] The Cruise |
Vanthropy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:28:00 -
[28]
but every friggen frigs resist hole is ex, so you might as well always have some warriors "SPEED + GANK = SPANK... Spank that ***** up" |
Cpt Constantinus
Celestial Janissaries
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Posted - 2008.12.04 21:31:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Vanthropy but every friggen frigs resist hole is ex, so you might as well always have some warriors
Amarr t2 frigs have a therm hole ( which can be difficult to close ) so if you want to fight them, use hobgoblins.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.12.05 11:14:00 -
[30]
Most likely this battle was due to stupidity but I kinda think the rapier is a bit fubared now. it's a ship designed to stop enemies speed and be an anti frig ship, it should take fast frigs with no problem. Every other recon is designed to do something (jam, scram, damp, nos, disrupt) they all do their jobs extremely well but the rapier has trouble with webbing, it's still a decent ship (nano, tank, damage, cloak) it just can't do what it was designed for.
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
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