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FarosWarrior
Amarr Sonnema
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:01:00 -
[181]
not exploit, the orca wasnt meant for this but can be used for it, and the piwates still lose their ships. but I think the ships you were talking about werent battleships, since theres no way in hell youre going to get 3 of them in a single orca 0.0
it is an exploit if the pirates dont lose their ships, but that doesnt happen
Cheers, Faros
*WARNING* SIG ALERT *WARNING*
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Cown
Caldari Laughing Leprechauns Corporation Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:06:00 -
[182]
hahahaha this made me laugh very hard, please keep up the good word with the stories and please keep up the good work pirates!
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Welcome to my personal opinion, if you don't like it, i don't give a s***. :-) |
Khanto Thor
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:10:00 -
[183]
Excellent,....this is what makes EVE such a diverse and great game..
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FlameGlow
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:11:00 -
[184]
1)Positive SS alts fit ships and bring them to safespot 2)Outlaw mains enter system in pods and warp to same safespot 3)Alts eject, mains enter ships and warp to miners in belt(scouted by a covops alt) 4)Profit!!!! Don't really need the orca anyway _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:12:00 -
[185]
Would this be another non tanked, no skills hulk post? And fitted for cargo to lower its tank ability even more?
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Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Onyx Asablot
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:13:00 -
[186]
gj to those pirates! thanks op for the info and a good read.
The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out! |
Valan
Gen Tec
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:15:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Tombozo
Originally by: Valan Passiveley aligning decreases your gtfo dodge time. You don't have to turn around.
Not true. The 'facing' that you see is purely client-side, and has nothing to do with the physics engine. All the game cares about is your velocity, and when you're sitting still your velocity is zero. This means, you're not actually aligned anywhere. Have you ever notice that if you move fly your ship a different direction than it's 'facing' from a stop, it will actually fly backwards a bit before it turns around? The directionality you see is purely graphical.
Originally by: Valan I can see why you wouldn't use this drill in empire as standard but the reds in local were the indicator that FC should've given the command to passiveley align.
It's been said before, but sec status doesn't show up in local. If they happen to have attacked someone in the last 15 minutes they will show up as globally aggro'ed, but otherwise the only way to know that they're outlaws is to see them in space or show info on them. Do you show info on everyone you see in hisec local? That's not really a reasonable expectation.
Originally by: Valan How did they get your position so perfect? Just thought the noob corp shuttle was having a quick look? Because if you warped in from the station and they warped in from a safe I would put money on you being out of smart bomb range.
They almost certainly used an alt with a covops for a warp-in.
With the first one has that changed because I've seen entire fleets do it lol and I'm damn sure its made a difference in the past. I'll test thats the best way to go. After you play a while things just kind of stick in your mind I automatically align even when doing missions lol.
While scanning and checking local is unreasonable in systems with 100s in it. You're doing pretty much nothing while mining and it would have to be an empty system to support that many miners.
Not taking anything away from the attackers nice to see there are still openings to do this kind of thing.
Either way getting done twice is unforgiveable. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game four years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig |
Scagga Laebetrovo
Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:16:00 -
[188]
While I think this is liquid inspiration on the part of the pirates, the old Caldari maxim comes to mind - "only the paranoid survive"
There isn't an effective solution I can see to this, other than getting CONCORD to start podding :P
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Taua Roqa
Minmatar Groping Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:21:00 -
[189]
this isn't current, it's been happening for years.
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Jalif
Scorpion's Sting Blades of Serenity
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:22:00 -
[190]
Originally by: KISOGOKU Edited by: KISOGOKU on 02/12/2008 02:48:57 You busted their safes ?
1-Fit a BS with smartbombs , insure 2-Warp to their safe 3-Activate smartbombs 4-profit ?
this...
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Illwill Bill
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:22:00 -
[191]
n1 pirates!
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Dr Slaughter
Minmatar Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:25:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo Edited by: Scagga Laebetrovo on 02/12/2008 11:16:33 While I think this is liquid inspiration on the part of the pirates, the old Caldari maxim comes to mind - "only the paranoid survive"
There isn't an effective solution I can see to this, other than getting CONCORD to start podding :P
Edit: Also to prevent outlaws from having clones in high sec, should mention
Or void insurance on ship losses made by -10 pilots in high sec only.
i.e. if you've managed to get to -10, and can't really be penalized anymore by sec hits the only thing left is to void insurance and hit them in the pocket.
But.. frankly.. I quite like the current mechanic as people can still fight back if they bother to get as organized as the pirates (must suck for solo players though).
~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest. |
Ihar Enda
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:41:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Ihar Enda on 02/12/2008 11:41:15
Stop the whining tbh.
Congrats to whoever figured out the method.
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Dmian
Gallente Gallenterrorisme
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:46:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Avon I still don't see what part of this is meant to be an exploit.
For ages pirates have had neutral alts bring them ships at safespots in high-sec. The only difference here is using an Orca to move the ships.
It is basically the same as suicide ganking has been for ages.
Faction Navy were buffed when factional warfare hit, so it is already harder for these pirates anyway.
The problem is that the OP expects to be safe, and wants bad guys to be nicer.
Personally I think that you should be able to cruise around in Empire space no matter your sec status. It should be up to players to "punish" criminals, not the factional navy (who should punish those with a low factional status, not a low security status). Of course, Concord should still respond to criminal acts.
I don't know if this is an exploit or not, but it's very different from what you say. Previously, if you wanted to, say, make 3 waves of attacks, you have to get your alt to leave 3 ships parked at a safespot. Those ships where scannable, and hard to move.
With an Orca, you have practically a moving station that's friendly to pirates. It's effectively like opening the gates (as is your desire) or taking away sentry guns from stations: you can have many waves of suicide ganks, without any consequence.
I see some logic from people with low sec not being allowed in high sec systems, after all it's a reasonable matter of security. Or at lest don't let them board something better than a frigate, or face consequences. This is effectively like letting terrorist get past customs and then be able to buy guns inside a country. It should be something very difficult to achieve, not easy.
Also, I don't agree with vigilante policies. There needs to be some king of security force in high-sec. A free raoming space for anyone will be a non-secure space. Industry needs some kind of security to be possible. Sorry to say this, but a pure PvP game is not possible. Part of the interesting features of this game is the economy, industry and the market. Without it, it won't be Eve.
Really, this game is not all piracy, or all PvP or all industry, etc. Those seeing this from only their side are half blinded by their own game style. The space is a complex system, and it needs balance. Kill too many miners and your disposable suicide ganking ships get too expensive to be really disposable.
In the meantime, the OP needs to take precautions. Don't be out there with your elephants without a ranger looking for you. Empire might be a reserve, but poachers do exist, and might be near you. Be alert. ----
Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here |
hedfunk
Caldari Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:47:00 -
[195]
Refreshing to see alot of people congratulating the pirates. Usually it's just 'omfg nerf'
-10 in high sec, who would of thought it :P
Socialist revolutinaries with guns = bad Iraqis with guns = Insurgent Terrorists Americans with guns = Patriots
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Firkragg
Blue Labs Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:54:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Thoren Gregson ***************************************** It took me a few days in a covert ops following, and scanning them down to see how they where this.. but see it I did. (and I actually had a lot of fun while doing so)
These -10 guys are flying into empire space in PODS. Making safespots in the systems they pray upon. Meeting up with Orcas in these safe spots flown by legit neutral pilots. (alts maybe) and jumping in there suicide T1 gank ships of choice out of the Orca hanger and then flying directly to the belts where they kill any ship they wish so long as it can be killed before Concord kills them. They then fly pods back to the orca in the same system, grab another set of ships and do it again. As of this weekend they now have atleast 2 orcas, one stays in the safe spot while the other goes back and forth between the safe spot and the station. IÆm guessing to pick up more ships and drop them into orca #1
Combined with fully insured tech one ships and no lost of sec status (they are already -10) there is NOTHING for them to lose and everything to gain.
Using this method essentially turns empire space into gank town in the belts and mission pockets so long as the victim can be killed fast enough. (they never fly near the gates or stations)
IÆm not crying foul because we have lost ~950 million in assets, I like that eve is a dangerous place to play. My issue is that:
1 The insurance system is in serous need of overhaul when pirates and suicide gankers can use it to there advantage while at the same time anyone flying in a tech 2 ship can not use it at all.
2 One of the main security mechanics of the game (sec status) is being circumvented/exploited by flying into empire systems in pods and then jumping into a ships brought in by another player. So long as they donÆt go near a gate or station until they jump back out in a pod.
Some may quickly say ônerf Orca ship baysö but that will not stop it. Orcas only make it faster and easier to do. Before the orca it could have been done by neutral players freighting tons of ships into an empire station, making a safe spot and then moving ships from station to safespot by ejecting out of ships in the safe spot over and over.
How to stop this? Step one is to fix insurance as has been suggested in the past, no insurance pay out to concord ship losses. But that wonÆt really stop this alone. A small fleet of tech 1 ships is still a better then even trade off for one (let alone 4) hulks mining together. Figure out a way to allow tech 2 ships to be insured to compensate for loss like tech one ships.
But what is going to stop -10 sec pilots from moving around in empire and then jumping into a ship in a safespot and killing players in empire belts?
Would a consistent Concord presence in all empire belts stop this? I donÆt know, but what I do know is.. this problem is going to become a lot worse as more and more players adopt this practice and I know that, atleast for me and my corp we will have to park all of our mining ships until something changes. None of us can afford 200million losses a night in the blink of an eye.
1. In that case use the insurance system to your gain. Fly t1 ships with t1 mods. There we go sorted.
2. Yeh they should probabaly boost faction police response time a bit since now days its a bit easy for a -10 to fly about in empire.
Anyways funny ganks and yes the -10 in empire bit is lame but theres nothing lame about suicide ganking so your ideas about concord in belts etc is dumb.
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Gombar
Caldari No Wise Guy's
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Posted - 2008.12.02 11:57:00 -
[197]
What about the old logic high risk - high reward,
but sorry forgot, this only applies if pirates are the gaining party.
Anything that produces high loss without any risk for the gankers should simply be regarded an exploit
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fivetide humidyear
Gallente EXCESS10N
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Posted - 2008.12.02 12:01:00 -
[198]
excellent use of game mechanics, i knew there was a reason the orca was brought into the game.
well done gentlemen.
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Gonada
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.02 12:05:00 -
[199]
excellent work by the pirates
your tears are very sweet, ill drink them with joy.
using legit game mechanics to gimp carebears= priceless
Please, jump into traffic
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Karille
Gallente Cold Templars Templar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.12.02 12:06:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Gombar What about the old logic high risk - high reward,
but sorry forgot, this only applies if pirates are the gaining party.
Anything that produces high loss without any risk for the gankers should simply be regarded an exploit
They lose their ships and their targets could be tanked. Just because they calculated the risk before they started doesn't mean there isn't any.
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Drealir
Amarr Boreas Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.12.02 12:11:00 -
[201]
You cannot board current selected vessel because your standing currently is -10. |
techzer0
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.12.02 12:20:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Shintai Would this be another non tanked, no skills hulk post? And fitted for cargo to lower its tank ability even more?
/me looks at the Idle killboard
But tbh, local jumping by 10-15 and random gibberish being spewed in local didn't give these guys a hint? We're in no way sneaky about what we plan on doing once we get in local. ------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.02 12:31:00 -
[203]
Originally by: hedfunk Refreshing to see alot of people congratulating the pirates. Usually it's just 'omfg nerf'
-10 in high sec, who would of thought it :P
I think it pretty stupid on the pirate part.
The are getting some easy killmail for a few weeks at most then the rules are changed because they are making too much waves. Probably it will be the "no insurance if killed by Concord" thing.
So they are trading a brief period of lulz for a future nerf. Not too bright.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.12.02 12:34:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Karille
They lose their ships and their targets could be tanked. Just because they calculated the risk before they started doesn't mean there isn't any.
No, it is not risk. Risk involve a chance of success or failure, what they are doing is a pure clerk calculation: "I use x isk to get n killmails, so I pay x/n isk for each killmail".
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Karille
Gallente Cold Templars Templar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.12.02 13:03:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Karille
They lose their ships and their targets could be tanked. Just because they calculated the risk before they started doesn't mean there isn't any.
No, it is not risk. Risk involve a chance of success or failure, what they are doing is a pure clerk calculation: "I use x isk to get n killmails, so I pay x/n isk for each killmail".
So you're saying that if I mine x hours to get n ore that would be a bad thing.
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Squably
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.12.02 13:15:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Leon Angeal This has those lovely bunch of well-to-do gentlemen known as the goons written all over it...
As if goons would be smart enough to think about this.
Signature removed. Please do not imply profanity in your signature. Navigator
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Buraki Narin
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.12.02 13:19:00 -
[207]
Any word from CCP on this?
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Superfailsauce
Neo Spartans
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Posted - 2008.12.02 13:22:00 -
[208]
There is risk involved for both parties.
The miner takes a risk by not tanking his barge, yes you can buffer tank a hulk with rigs and resist mods, his reward is an increased yield and more money... plus the fact there are hundreds of hulks mining in high sec, the chances of actually being attacked in this fashion are quite low, best bet is to stay away from systems bordering lowsec.
The pirate runs the risk of running into a semi well fit barge and not popping it.
Swings and roundabouts gents. ------- Larkonis' Alt, main got banned. |
Tammaria Snegallja
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Posted - 2008.12.02 13:25:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Valan How did they get your position so perfect? Just thought the noob corp shuttle was having a quick look? Because if you warped in from the station and they warped in from a safe I would put money on you being out of smart bomb range.
Let's see. There was a Hulk from some Carebear Corp 5 minutes earlier, that came from the station and left after 5 seconds in direction next belt. Could that pilot have bookmarked a jetcan or roid near the mining ships?
BTW: Where do I need to click to configure what the local displays?
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.02 13:25:00 -
[210]
This is how the world ends.
When EVE does eventually die it will be because individuals like OP have turned it into toothless WoW in space There was even talk of French toast
But there was none to be had |
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