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Ugluuk Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.11.24 02:52:00 - [1] Edited by: Ugluuk on 24/11/2008 03:00:26 After loosing a electron blaster Thorax against a AF gang i decided to take a cyclone for a spin on my alt and get revenge. With dual webs,Target painter and armor tank on the cyclone i was ready to rock&own!! I have only moved 3 jumps before i meet the first AF gang..I let em aggro and unleash the super tactic on a Enyo.. First volleys smacks him into armor..Then it was time for their super tactic to outclass mine.. Tracking disrupting modules activates on me and destroys the fun completely.. After they put a ton of tracking disruptors on me i hit a dual webbed and target painted Enyo only 7 times in 112 shots.. Is this what CCP had in mind for the solo pvp`ers then im not quite understanding what intentions they had with this patch.. As possible solutions i can think of these tings: Nerf tracking disruptors to not fit on frigate class ships. Increase smartbomb range.. Add 2 more mid slots to big ships so we can fit more target painters and webs.. Increased sig radius on frigs.. If anyone have ideas on how to survive such gangs like the one i met post it here so we can discuss it.. Edit: It should be mentioned that im a -10 pilot and i dont operate in 0.0 where solo pvp has more options with f.ex recon ships.. This is a typical low sec syndrome to meet AF gangs looking for flashy people..
Graalum Interstellar eXodus Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.24 03:05:00 - [2] pepole are flying assault frigs now?
Sacul Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.11.24 03:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Graalum pepole are flying assault frigs now? Idea is low sig radius and ab. Looks ok on paper but i have been seeing allot of enyo's in 0.0 aswell but allmost all of them die every time. Ev0ke is flying af's allot. Sorry to hear ugluuk but u should know that solo pvp has been dead since late 2006. I think you are one of the last veterans to still do it....well did it. CCP says they want to break up large gangs but all they do encourages blobbing.
Vanderie Amarr Athanasius Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.24 03:24:00 - [4] Edited by: Vanderie on 24/11/2008 03:24:54 No offense Ugluuk as I have a lot of respect for you/your corp in general, but I almost never see a solo BYDI member. Every time I have seen you/your corp in local (or fought on a few occasions) it has been a battleship blob with ECM support. This may not count for you (and if it doesn't I apologize), but I can only venture a guess due to the fact that you are the CEO of the corp. Yes, frigates are very powerful now, but they are not the end-all be-all. Use neutralizers, use drones or smartbombs. I took on a FW gang a few days ago with my absolution; they consisted of a hawk, a harpy, a kitsune, a thorax and a drake. I picked my targets carefully and dropped the kitsune first. Once he was gone, it was a matter of burning away from them with my MWD (yes, I still fit an MWD because it is useful in certain situations) and dropped them because I kept them level with my tracking. And I was also under sentry fire the whole time; my corp mate only showed up when the drake was the last target standing. You could also start using frigates yourself; try an ishkur or a sentinel or a wolf. It's about adapting to the new kind of combat that has presented itself with this patch, not about giving up because you got killed by a swarm of assault frigates (yes I read your other post about stepping down). As for getting killed, you may have tried tracking computers instead of webs. Webs are nice, but with them slowing the target so little it may be that having better tracking is the new web. Concerning your ideas for a fix: Make it so frigates can't fit tracking disruptors: This would invalidate the sentinel, and would destroy a perfectly legitimate tactic. If your target is fitting tracking disruptors, fit tracking computers. Increase smartbomb range: I could see it working, but at the same time it would boost smartbombing gatecamps that don't need boosting. Adding 2 more slots: I think it is about choosing your current slots more carefully, not having CCP add more because one can't think of a compromise. Increasing frigate signature radius: This I kind of agree on, but it also runs the risk of nerfing the class back into oblivion again. Again, I suggest fitting tracking computers to compensate for the issues with tracking. Try adapting your tactics. If your basis that frigates are overpowered is based on the statement that you couldn't kill a group of them with your cyclone solo, there is not much of a basis to go on. I am, however, open for discussion on the matter. -Vanderie
Pollux21 Project Nemesis	Posted - 2008.11.24 03:41:00 - [5] Originally by: Ugluuk Edited by: Ugluuk on 24/11/2008 03:00:26 After loosing a electron blaster Thorax against a AF gang i decided to take a cyclone for a spin on my alt and get revenge. With dual webs,Target painter and armor tank on the cyclone i was ready to rock&own!! I have only moved 3 jumps before i meet the first AF gang..I let em aggro and unleash the super tactic on a Enyo.. First volleys smacks him into armor..Then it was time for their super tactic to outclass mine.. Tracking disrupting modules activates on me and destroys the fun completely.. After they put a ton of tracking disruptors on me i hit a dual webbed and target painted Enyo only 7 times in 112 shots.. Is this what CCP had in mind for the solo pvp`ers then im not quite understanding what intentions they had with this patch.. As possible solutions i can think of these tings: Nerf tracking disruptors to not fit on frigate class ships. Increase smartbomb range.. Add 2 more mid slots to big ships so we can fit more target painters and webs.. Increased sig radius on frigs.. If anyone have ideas on how to survive such gangs like the one i met post it here so we can discuss it.. Edit: It should be mentioned that im a -10 pilot and i dont operate in 0.0 where solo pvp has more options with f.ex recon ships.. This is a typical low sec syndrome to meet AF gangs looking for flashy people.. that thorax... this one??? http://prons.griefwatch.net/index.php?p=details&kill=3744 you probably wouldnt be so down if you hadnt trimarked that thorax tbh...
Wusti The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.11.24 03:45:00 - [6] Swings and roundabouts I think mate. I kind of agree with the thinking that a solo BC probably shouldn't have that much chance against a well-flown frigate pack. AF's were nerfed for so long, but an absolute ton of fun to get about in (like alot of peeps probably, Harpy was my first half-decent PvP ship which a flew loads while I finally got the skills to do justice to a HAC). I think I'm going to wait till the dust settles on this patch before I judge - and as usual, I like some stuff, and detest others - but thats the way of it I'm afraid. _______________________ Welcome to The New Era
Revocks Bishop Amarr Project Nemesis	Posted - 2008.11.24 03:52:00 - [7] I just got back from the third time of me seeing "Twilight" at the movie theater, and I come home to this? This makes me incredibly sad. I understand your logic in the fact that you couldn't 'wtfpwn' a whole fleet by yourself, but I appreciate your input on nerfing everyone else so that you can go back to being a 'pwner.' I along with the rest of my comrades will swiftly inform our CSM friend of this request, and he will get back to you. Until then, try not to take on a whole fleet with an overpriced cruiser. This is only a recommendation.
Radcjk Caldari Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.11.24 06:00:00 - [8] 5 good frigates could kill a t1 cruiser cruiser / BC well before this patch. Not to be a ****, but this really didn't boost the frig blob into being any stronger than it was before, it just made the AF worth flying in the frig blob.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.11.24 08:44:00 - [9] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 24/11/2008 08:46:59 Originally by: Pollux21 Originally by: Ugluuk Edited by: Ugluuk on 24/11/2008 03:00:26 After loosing a electron blaster Thorax against a AF gang i decided to take a cyclone for a spin on my alt and get revenge. With dual webs,Target painter and armor tank on the cyclone i was ready to rock&own!! I have only moved 3 jumps before i meet the first AF gang..I let em aggro and unleash the super tactic on a Enyo.. First volleys smacks him into armor..Then it was time for their super tactic to outclass mine.. Tracking disrupting modules activates on me and destroys the fun completely.. After they put a ton of tracking disruptors on me i hit a dual webbed and target painted Enyo only 7 times in 112 shots.. Is this what CCP had in mind for the solo pvp`ers then im not quite understanding what intentions they had with this patch.. As possible solutions i can think of these tings: Nerf tracking disruptors to not fit on frigate class ships. Increase smartbomb range.. Add 2 more mid slots to big ships so we can fit more target painters and webs.. Increased sig radius on frigs.. If anyone have ideas on how to survive such gangs like the one i met post it here so we can discuss it.. Edit: It should be mentioned that im a -10 pilot and i dont operate in 0.0 where solo pvp has more options with f.ex recon ships.. This is a typical low sec syndrome to meet AF gangs looking for flashy people.. that thorax... this one??? http://prons.griefwatch.net/index.php?p=details&kill=3744 you probably wouldnt be so down if you hadnt trimarked that thorax tbh... Meh, you don't get it. First of all Ugluuk trimarking his Thorax's is no big deal ... really. Second of all, i can count 4 AF's that could webb there, and i bet half of them had warp scramblers on. What this means is that considering the limited EHP - even with trimarks, lack of utility slots on the Thorax, and the fact that warp scrambler and webb efficiency scale with the nr of them fitted around the gang, he had no freaking chance. Add to this the effectiveness of tracking disruptors on them now, and you got a recipe of death for most solo pvp-ers in cruiser/bc/bs class vs the AF gang - agility and speed boost of said AF's didn't help the solo-er either. What this means for the solo-er is that the range of gangs that you can take on is even more limited, to the point where it's not even worth undocking. Originally by: Radcjk 5 good frigates could kill a t1 cruiser cruiser / BC well before this patch. Not to be a ****, but this really didn't boost the frig blob into being any stronger than it was before, it just made the AF worth flying in the frig blob. Only if the t1 cruiser is a noob. PS: I love the smack directed to Ugluuk for flying an expensive t1 cruiser when his beef has nothing to do with this, something you can see for yourself by checking his losses. --- I smack just for myself. [orange]Your signature is too large. Please resi
pipvac D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.24 08:52:00 - [10] Having been playing Eve for over five years now, I can certainly empathise with Ugluuk. The sense of frustration, and angst as you see the tactics that you have trained for (invested subscription time in) invalidated by the most recent patch. Infuriating. At the same time, Vanderie makes some valid observations on how to adapt to the changes... and there are many more besides (not going to share...). I've slowly and painfully learnt to enjoy the changes and experiment with new setups. EFT and the test server are now essential testing tools, rather than querky playgrounds for people who don't want to play the 'real' game. I understand your pain Ugluuk. Enjoy your break and 'go-slow'. No doubt you with your experience, you will come back stronger. Desperately seeking originality since the first "can I have your stuff" since 2003.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.24 09:53:00 - [11] Well yes and no, thing is the "HA, I brought a bigger ship, now you're all gonna die!" isn't (or shouldn't) be the EVE way. Going for a bigger hull isn't automatically the best answer nowadays, besides a single player SHOULD go down against a wolfpack who invested in ECM (of sorts). While I understand that for a solo player that sucks a bit I am happy CCP made this bold move (which incidentally helps the lower SP chars, which I'm sure was an expected side effect). This is an MMO which (always has, more than other MMO's) relies on teamwork.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2008.11.24 09:56:00 - [12] The frigate class has become stupidly powerful that's for sure. A BC versus an AF gang should still lose, but at the cost of one or two hostiles. Afterburner's and tracking disruptor's now mitigate pretty much all incoming damage making a squad of 2-3+ frigates with their many shared midslots damn near impossible to kill unless you yourself fly a frigate. There is no way to adapt as suggested. There is no module or skill that magically add 200% tracking to guns or extra midslots to your ship. And don't start saying "use neuts" because they don't do squat to a frigate unless you have 3-4 to stagger. Drones are pretty useless as well against the AF wolfpack as they will last less than 20seconds. I am all for BS and to a lesser degree BC having to rely on smaller support to keep 'safe' but current situation has the cruiser class needing the same support which is pretty silly. Spending 95% of my time in frigates as a FW pilot I have had ample opportunity to see just how insanely powerful an orbiting frig is. A Stabber can not even deplete the shields of a Punisher before dying .. (Amarr Victor!, by the way )
Djan Anaplian Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.24 10:49:00 - [13] Edited by: Djan Anaplian on 24/11/2008 10:49:28 Meh, your right of course; but 70 pages of 'DON'T NERF NANOS' didn't make ccp listen - so i doubt anything else will.
Marc Isabel Noir.	Posted - 2008.11.24 11:27:00 - [14] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida There is no way to adapt as suggested. How about 'start doing teamwork yourself'? With comparable numbers, the AF gang will get creamed. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.11.24 11:42:00 - [15] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 24/11/2008 11:48:43 Originally by: Marc Isabel Originally by: Hirana Yoshida There is no way to adapt as suggested. How about 'start doing teamwork yourself'? With comparable numbers, the AF gang will get creamed. You don't get the thread. Some of us don't like having this 'don't undock unless your in a gang of 5+' playing style, and have fun going out solo, even if it means lots and lots and lots of losses; because you will lose and to compensate for numbers you need lots of practice and lots of isk invested. For many going out in a gang of 10 just so that they can be on the combined kill of some poor bugger who was jumping through stargates at the worst of moments and lolling in corp chat about how great you are is not fun. The proof that some ppl enjoy this comes from ccp, either in the form of lying comments of 'solo pvp should always be viable' or the power of 2 offer that they released recently. Ppl played like this, ppl enjoyed playing like this, and some of those ppl left. --- I smack just for myself. [orange]Your signature is too large. Please resi
Crellion Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.11.24 11:47:00 - [16] The only way to adapt to this bullcrap is to fly with others in pvp but frankly I have also been playing for a long time and for the last couple of years I enjoyed soloing when ever I felt like a spin rather than having to log in and wait for an 'op' ... It is CCPs game and they can take it wherever they like I guess. At present I am paying them subscriptionmoney but I am only logging in now and then to chamge skills...Most likely I am also going the way of the DoDo... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.11.24 12:00:00 - [17] Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 24/11/2008 12:01:16 Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 24/11/2008 11:48:43 Originally by: Marc Isabel Originally by: Hirana Yoshida There is no way to adapt as suggested. How about 'start doing teamwork yourself'? With comparable numbers, the AF gang will get creamed. You don't get the thread. Some of us don't like having this 'don't undock unless your in a gang of 5+' playing style, and have fun going out solo, even if it means lots and lots and lots of losses; because you will lose and to compensate for numbers you need lots of practice and lots of isk invested. For many going out in a gang of 10 just so that they can be on the combined kill of some poor bugger who was jumping through stargates at the worst of moments and lolling in corp chat about how great you are is not fun. The proof that some ppl enjoy this comes from ccp, either in the form of lying comments of 'solo pvp should always be viable' or the power of 2 offer that they released recently. Ppl played like this, ppl enjoyed playing like this, and some of those ppl left. eve is harsh, deal with it. so what the OP is telling us, he engaged an AS gang ALONE, he knew it and he was in a larger slower ship and died. lets say he fought ~5 AS, that would be about the dps that a bs (without its drones) can do. he had a 4 slot armor tank on his cyclone. they were faster, smaller and had the right fitting to fight him. so the AS gang had all advantages on their side and thats why they are uber? if he had a proper tank he could probably deagress and jump/dock
Marc Isabel Noir.	Posted - 2008.11.24 12:14:00 - [18] Edited by: Marc Isabel on 24/11/2008 12:13:55 Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 24/11/2008 11:48:43 You don't get the thread. Some of us don't like having this 'don't undock unless your in a gang of 5+' playing style, and have fun going out solo, even if it means lots and lots and lots of losses; because you will lose and to compensate for numbers you need lots of practice and lots of isk invested. For many going out in a gang of 10 just so that they can be on the combined kill of some poor bugger who was jumping through stargates at the worst of moments and lolling in corp chat about how great you are is not fun. So you're deliberately choosing to fly at a strategic disadvantage (being outnumbered) to face interesting, steep tactical challenges? Being motivated by the possibility of an improbable tactical victory, beating the odds, getting your yarr on? Then why bother complaining about an increased strategic disadvantage? It'll only give you more bragging rights when you do beat the odds. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Crellion Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.11.24 12:15:00 - [19] Originally by: Cpt Cosmic Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 24/11/2008 12:01:16 Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 24/11/2008 11:48:43 Originally by: Marc Isabel Originally by: Hirana Yoshida There is no way to adapt as suggested. How about 'start doing teamwork yourself'? With comparable numbers, the AF gang will get creamed. You don't get the thread. Some of us don't like having this 'don't undock unless your in a gang of 5+' playing style, and have fun going out solo, even if it means lots and lots and lots of losses; because you will lose and to compensate for numbers you need lots of practice and lots of isk invested. For many going out in a gang of 10 just so that they can be on the combined kill of some poor bugger who was jumping through stargates at the worst of moments and lolling in corp chat about how great you are is not fun. The proof that some ppl enjoy this comes from ccp, either in the form of lying comments of 'solo pvp should always be viable' or the power of 2 offer that they released recently. Ppl played like this, ppl enjoyed playing like this, and some of those ppl left. eve is harsh, deal with it. so what the OP is telling us, he engaged an AS gang ALONE, he knew it and he was in a larger slower ship and died. lets say he fought ~5 AS, that would be about the dps that a bs (without its drones) can do. he had a 4 slot armor tank on his cyclone. they were faster, smaller and had the right fitting to fight him. so the AS gang had all advantages on their side and thats why they are uber? if he had a proper tank he could probably deagress and jump/dock Please stopadding ignorant posts here. There colelctive DPS is irrelevant, as you kill them it drops... Tank,deagress and jump dock? Who do you think you are talking to? A mission runner that decided to see if he can play a bit with an incoming gank? This epitomises what I hate about this patch the most: It legitimises all the nooblar part time pvpers/Weekend warrior types.... Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Ugluuk Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.11.24 12:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Cpt Cosmic Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 24/11/2008 12:01:16 Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 24/11/2008 11:48:43 Originally by: Marc Isabel Originally by: Hirana Yoshida There is no way to adapt as suggested. How about 'start doing teamwork yourself'? With comparable numbers, the AF gang will get creamed. You don't get the thread. Some of us don't like having this 'don't undock unless your in a gang of 5+' playing style, and have fun going out solo, even if it means lots and lots and lots of losses; because you will lose and to compensate for numbers you need lots of practice and lots of isk invested. For many going out in a gang of 10 just so that they can be on the combined kill of some poor bugger who was jumping through stargates at the worst of moments and lolling in corp chat about how great you are is not fun. The proof that some ppl enjoy this comes from ccp, either in the form of lying comments of 'solo pvp should always be viable' or the power of 2 offer that they released recently. Ppl played like this, ppl enjoyed playing like this, and some of those ppl left. eve is harsh, deal with it. so what the OP is telling us, he engaged an AS gang ALONE, he knew it and he was in a larger slower ship and died. lets say he fought ~5 AS, that would be about the dps that a bs (without its drones) can do. he had a 4 slot armor tank on his cyclone. they were faster, smaller and had the right fitting to fight him. so the AS gang had all advantages on their side and thats why they are uber? if he had a proper tank he could probably deagress and jump/dock It`s not what i attacked with that matters here..If you read the whole post i was after a quick kill or 2 before dying myself..That is why i set up the ship that way.. What matters here is that the tracking disruptors combined with sig radius on a AF makes it almost impossible to hit unless you fit frigate guns.. The point is: I had the assault frig dual webbed and target painted..And dual 180 autocannons have good tracking.. I still missed when doing all i could to be able to hit..
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.24 12:18:00 - [21] You mean you can't pwn 5 people in a row anymore and feel uber about it?
Friedrick Psitalon The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.24 12:31:00 - [22] Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 24/11/2008 12:33:38 Ah, so it's tracking disruptors that will feel the nerf until they're made useless like Damps this time. It's the age-old complaint of the high SP: "I can't instantly annihilate the low SP by myself, therefore X EWAR module they used to tilt the field must be broken." A little EWAR levels the playing field between high SP and low SP. Enough EWAR renders one player of any skill totally and completely impotent to a group of other players. EWAR isn't leaving EVE. You ran into a group of players who - either by choice or intent - were flying ships that work very well with this basic principle that you already knew. Accept it and move on.
Marc Isabel Noir.	Posted - 2008.11.24 12:32:00 - [23] Edited by: Marc Isabel on 24/11/2008 12:33:50 Edited by: Marc Isabel on 24/11/2008 12:32:50 Originally by: Ugluuk The point is: I had the assault frig dual webbed and target painted..And dual 180 autocannons have good tracking.. I still missed when doing all i could to be able to hit.. The whole point of EW is being able to effectively hinder a limited amount of targets. Logically, superior numbers with appropriate EW fitting should be able to hold a single target. You faced a signature radius tanked fleet, with multiple EW mods to hinder a limited number of gun-wielding targets fighting small sig radiusses. A setup that should win strategically. It's not an I-win button, because it would have been a sub-optimal fit against non-gunnery boats or equal numbers. Imagine you had multiple racial ECM's on your ship, perhaps combined with reduced sensor strength, or massively reduced targeting range. You'd be handicapped too. When you're outnumbered, well-chosen EW just means 'run like hell'. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Zhula Guixgrixks Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.11.24 12:54:00 - [24] This: "If your basis that frigates are overpowered is based on the statement that you couldn't kill a group of them with your cyclone solo, there is not much of a basis to go on. " There are entire divergent viewpoints colliding in many threads like this one. I'm assume "bigger = better" is one of those views. Until now "big = better" was a major "tactic" in low-sec and to some extent in 0.0. QR enforcing another view, basically idea of different ship classes. Different ship classes with cons and pros. QR requires a conscious selection of proper weapon system to counter another one. Cookie cutter solo pwnmobiles are now history. Those facts may not fit some pilots view how eve mechanics should work and thus generating frustration. Btw. I know a good Vexor pilot, who is virtually murdering frigates. Maybe Cyclone just isn't perfect for this task ??
Mendolorian Girl Caldari The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.24 13:12:00 - [25] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Afterburner's and tracking disruptor's now mitigate pretty much all incoming damage making a squad of 2-3+ frigates with their many shared midslots damn near impossible to kill unless you yourself fly a frigate. There were what.. 5 AFs in this gang? So if each had a TD and an AF then yup.. you can't do anything against that. What if they'd been flying with Multi-Freq's instead? Yup, you'd still have died. If you're in a battle where you don't have the advantage you've done something wrong.. whether that advantage is superior dps, ewar, tank, it's all the same thing. You picked a fight with the wrong guys, deal with it. Originally by: Dirty Piwat Oh noes.. nerf Ewar, it means I can't kill stuffs :( Gotta love Darwin.. adapt or die :)
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.11.24 13:21:00 - [26] Originally by: Marc Isabel Edited by: Marc Isabel on 24/11/2008 12:13:55 Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 24/11/2008 11:48:43 You don't get the thread. Some of us don't like having this 'don't undock unless your in a gang of 5+' playing style, and have fun going out solo, even if it means lots and lots and lots of losses; because you will lose and to compensate for numbers you need lots of practice and lots of isk invested. For many going out in a gang of 10 just so that they can be on the combined kill of some poor bugger who was jumping through stargates at the worst of moments and lolling in corp chat about how great you are is not fun. So you're deliberately choosing to fly at a strategic disadvantage (being outnumbered) to face interesting, steep tactical challenges? Being motivated by the possibility of an improbable tactical victory, beating the odds, getting your yarr on? Then why bother complaining about an increased strategic disadvantage? It'll only give you more bragging rights when you do beat the odds. Yeah. Some ppl like going against the odds, but playing Sisif is not all that fun, there's a line there, CCP crossed it. --- I smack just for myself. [orange]Your signature is too large. Please resi
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.11.24 13:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Mendolorian Girl Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Afterburner's and tracking disruptor's now mitigate pretty much all incoming damage making a squad of 2-3+ frigates with their many shared midslots damn near impossible to kill unless you yourself fly a frigate. There were what.. 5 AFs in this gang? So if each had a TD and an AF then yup.. you can't do anything against that. What if they'd been flying with Multi-Freq's instead? Yup, you'd still have died. If you're in a battle where you don't have the advantage you've done something wrong.. whether that advantage is superior dps, ewar, tank, it's all the same thing. You picked a fight with the wrong guys, deal with it. Originally by: Dirty Piwat Oh noes.. nerf Ewar, it means I can't kill stuffs :( Gotta love Darwin.. adapt or die :) 7 actually, 3 wolfs, 2 ishkur, vengeance and harpy. --- I smack just for myself. [orange]Your signature is too large. Please resi
Aravorn Gallente The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.24 13:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Graalum pepole are flying assault frigs now? Deny No one is flying assault frigates
Johnny Gurkha Death Cult Covenant	Posted - 2008.11.24 13:42:00 - [29] **** happens tbh.. if your not enjoying it then rightly you stop playing, I solo alot myself and although targets are getting scarce I'm still enjoying it. Go figure...
Orar Ironfist Digital assassins	Posted - 2008.11.24 14:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Djan Anaplian Edited by: Djan Anaplian on 24/11/2008 10:49:28 Meh, your right of course; but 70 pages of 'DON'T NERF NANOS' didn't make ccp listen - so i doubt anything else will. /signed

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