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Mikal Drey
Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.16 08:47:00 -
[31]
hey hey
If you added a ransoming mechanic how do you protect the guy who paid without it becoming an exploit ?
tbh i see more exploits than anything else. |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.16 08:53:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I've just blown up yet another cap ship (Rorq this time), and this has to be the 5th in a ROW to not pay ransom. When I ask why they don't all I get is 'you'd just blow me up anyway'.
Come ON, us pirates need *something* to make ISK with.
How about a mechanic that encourages real pirates to find out the KM*****s who dishonour ransoms and mercilessly persecute them. It could be player interactive and go something like: you'll make jack **** in ransoms if you dont. |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2008.11.16 08:54:00 -
[33]
I don't see a reason for some mechanic that locks us into a certain situation. This is a player driven game, with player made goals, problems and solutions. For game driven goals and solutions there are other MMO's.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.11.16 08:58:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I've just blown up yet another cap ship (Rorq this time), and this has to be the 5th in a ROW to not pay ransom. When I ask why they don't all I get is 'you'd just blow me up anyway'.
Come ON, us pirates need *something* to make ISK with.
How about a mechanic that encourages real pirates to find out the KM*****s who dishonour ransoms and mercilessly persecute them. It could be player interactive and go something like: you'll make jack **** in ransoms if you dont.
TBH, when I hear about 'pirates' that dishonor ransoms, I terminate them with extreme prejudice. I'll go out of my way to hunt them down.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Daan Sai
Polytrope
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Posted - 2008.11.16 09:21:00 -
[35]
As a non-pirate,I¦d support some game mechanism to help make ransoms run more smoothly. Something like a purpose chat/trade window and some aggro flagging component so the victim can shoot back if betrayed (probably futilely).
As to whats stopping the renegging on a deal? Well sellable kill rights would go someway to eveing up the balance of power.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.11.16 09:42:00 -
[36]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 16/11/2008 09:44:10 Edited by: MotherMoon on 16/11/2008 09:43:35 seeing as my post was ignored I'll assume it wasn't explained enough.
You send a Company 15$ to buy a time card.
That time card ends up being fake.
You can have the money you sent pulled back.
This would make ransoming much much more pro*****ble as players would know they will always be let go. Thus ransom would almost allways be paid and no one would be afriad to pay up.
as someone who has randomed (only twice to be honest) it would be awesome if they didn't have any seacond thoughts about me letting them go.
ninja edit |
Herring
Caldari Incessant Onslaught
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Posted - 2008.11.16 09:45:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Verone
I've been pirating for as long as I can remember, and I'm pretty much against the idea.
Piracy and getting a ransom out of someone should be completely down to a corporation, their reputation and everything they've done to be known as a corporation who honors ransoms.
Adding a mechanic is just feeding pirates ISK on a plate. I whoeheartedly disagree with the concept and think it's best left alone.
People should have to work for their ISK, and face the consequences of their actions.
/thread |
techzer0
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.11.16 09:48:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Verone
I've been pirating for as long as I can remember, and I'm pretty much against the idea.
Piracy and getting a ransom out of someone should be completely down to a corporation, their reputation and everything they've done to be known as a corporation who honors ransoms.
Adding a mechanic is just feeding pirates ISK on a plate. I whoeheartedly disagree with the concept and think it's best left alone.
People should have to work for their ISK, and face the consequences of their actions.
Posting to say... I agree with Verone.
Not that I offer ransoms often. Advice on what to do to avoid it happening again, sure. Ransom............ nah |
TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.11.16 10:03:00 -
[39]
hmmm, time to start dishonoring ransoms |
Dingo
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Posted - 2008.11.16 10:35:00 -
[40]
Ransoms are bad. They encourage and support pirates. I would rather loose 100% of the value of my ship than see a single isk go into the pirates pocket. If CCP need to alter a mechanic then it should be to make the self destruct timer seconds rather than minuets. |
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Jalif
Scorpion's Sting
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Posted - 2008.11.16 11:12:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Arcon Telf Edited by: Arcon Telf on 16/11/2008 08:23:35 The IRONY of this situation is that this pilot attempted to log off to avoid his loss all together! Who is dishonorable now? Most pirates - career pirates - honor ransoms. It's bad for business not to! Pirates, quite frankly, are some of the most trustworthy people in New Eden.
In this case, the Rorqual pilot logged off in an attempt to circumvent legitimate game mechanics (I was there, I got the damn killmail). Don't you think we would have much preferred a reasonable ransom to some points on a killboard? As Bellum said, this ended up as a 2 billion ISK loss for the pilot. Our ransom would have been about half that amount, and it absolutely would have been honored. We even attempted to contact his corp mate in system before popping the ship.
I think the spirit of Bellum's idea is a good one.
/this
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Shakari Sween
Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.11.16 11:12:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Celedris Edited by: Celedris on 16/11/2008 04:34:05 A possible solution is docking escrow. A potential ransomed player puts up X amount of ISK in a game-administered ransom escrow account for a safety contract on their current piloted ship, and the pirate in question can choose to accept or decline that contract.
If accepted, the money is removed from the ransomed player and put in escrow to be given to the pirate when the ship is next docked at a station. If the ship is abandoned, left at a POS, or otherwise not docked within 24 hours the escrow then goes through to the pirate. If the ship is destroyed before it docks or before the 24-hour window closes, the escrow account is refunded to the ransomed player.
The risk to the pirate here is that the ransomed player, once free, can have a friend blow him up before he docks or the 24-hour window closes, and then he collects the insurance/loot and has the ransom refunded. This would obviously encourage the pirate to set a ransom price which is well below the insurance payout + value of rigs + value of lost modules. So maybe a 3-rig, T2-fit battleship that was premium insured could be reliably ransomed for 30-40mil. If, however, you set up a 150-mil ransom, then the ransomed player would just have a corp mate blow him up and refund the ransom + insurance and take the loss on rigs/modules. T2 hulls like HACs & marauders could obviously be ransomed for close to the hull value of the ship since there is very little insurance payout relative to their cost.
Maybe there is some potential abuse of this system that I am not thinking of, but I think it would work pretty well.
There is defintly some potential in this idea. It is capable of beeing exploited, but there are probably ways to prevent that from happening much at all. I would sugest posting on the ideas section of the fourms, as well as posibly the csm fourms. Its a good start of an idea, but there are of course a few kinks that need to be ironed out.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.11.16 11:20:00 -
[43]
If you want to ransom you need a reputation so they know you're not blowing them up if they pay. it doesn't make sense to have any kind of "game mechanic" for it. It would NOT make any sense at all.
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Dear Abby
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Posted - 2008.11.16 11:30:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Dear Abby on 16/11/2008 11:30:09
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 16/11/2008 03:52:10 To be honest I kinda agree with this. Or let other players mark players that don't let them go. Thus other players know they don't follow through.
No isk or anything, just
a new system that messures your trust or something?
Why ? Even a dog is smart enough not to dump in it's own house. You built the reputation and chuckle when other don't honor ransoms?
You want to ensure you get you ransoms - Honor them, act against those that do not, make people realize that when paid for a task or ransom you will complete it.
Trust is earned slowly and can be spent totally in a second, so build a good reputation and you will get more ransoms.
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Novemb3r
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.11.16 12:14:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Novemb3r on 16/11/2008 12:15:21 I think any kind of game forced mechanic for ransoming is a bad idea. The whole point of ransom is that it's an interaction between players.
If they want to pay they pay, if they don't want to pay they explode. It's their choice, same as the pirate has the choice of honouring the ransom or not. I say less enforced rules and more player driven content.
EDIT: Unless this is some kind of massively subtle bait thread where he doesthe same thing as all the other whiners who want easy mode eve or something and Bellum is doing it for the lulz. |
Verone
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.16 12:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tiirae
Veto may be a different case, but you have years of reputation and something of a public celebrity factor; not many pirate corps operate in that environment
If we do have a reputation then it's because we do as we say we will, and release people when they pay.
Sure, we get a few people now and again who refuse to pay and lose their ships. Some people would rather die for some reason.
I'd say that a record of who you've ransomed sucessfully would be nice, but any mechanic governing the movement of ISK and the ability for people to break their word takes the fun out of piracy and takes the point out of even bothering to develop a reputation for your corp.
I'm still of the opinion that a mechanic governing ransoms would have a detrimental effect on the way piracy works, even if it did make the bears happy.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.16 13:11:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I've just blown up yet another cap ship (Rorq this time), and this has to be the 5th in a ROW to not pay ransom. When I ask why they don't all I get is 'you'd just blow me up anyway'.
Come ON, us pirates need *something* to make ISK with.
How about a mechanic that encourages real pirates to find out the KM*****s who dishonour ransoms and mercilessly persecute them. It could be player interactive and go something like: you'll make jack **** in ransoms if you dont.
TBH, when I hear about 'pirates' that dishonor ransoms, I terminate them with extreme prejudice. I'll go out of my way to hunt them down.
Sadly, there are too few like you and too many like them.
And, as one of the posters mentioned above, most ransom demands don't make financial sense. Asking for basically 100% of the value of my ship & mods means I have no real incentive to accept. If the ransom is in the region of 25-33% of my ship's post insurance cost, then it's a risk I'll consider taking.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.16 13:13:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Dingo Ransoms are bad. They encourage and support pirates. I would rather loose 100% of the value of my ship than see a single isk go into the pirates pocket. If CCP need to alter a mechanic then it should be to make the self destruct timer seconds rather than minuets.
I think CCP should change game mechanics to make your playstyle, whatever it is, invalid.
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.11.16 13:15:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Dingo Ransoms are bad. They encourage and support pirates. I would rather loose 100% of the value of my ship than see a single isk go into the pirates pocket. If CCP need to alter a mechanic then it should be to make the self destruct timer seconds rather than minuets.
Pfhhh.
Then don't agree to PVP by still being there when they turn on their point
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Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.11.16 13:19:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Davina Braben on 16/11/2008 13:19:37
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Tiirae
Veto may be a different case, but you have years of reputation and something of a public celebrity factor; not many pirate corps operate in that environment
If we do have a reputation then it's because we do as we say we will, and release people when they pay.
Sure, we get a few people now and again who refuse to pay and lose their ships. Some people would rather die for some reason.
I'd say that a record of who you've ransomed sucessfully would be nice, but any mechanic governing the movement of ISK and the ability for people to break their word takes the fun out of piracy and takes the point out of even bothering to develop a reputation for your corp.
I'm still of the opinion that a mechanic governing ransoms would have a detrimental effect on the way piracy works, even if it did make the bears happy.
To be fair, you've been on EVE TV and everything. |
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2008.11.16 13:23:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 16/11/2008 13:25:15 Just a bit different, but, if you're a pirate and complain that "carebears" complaing that "you'll just shoot me anyway", look at it from thsi POV:
Would you, let them go on the promise that they WILL pay you when they're safe?
But yes, ransoming system has been on a big wishlist for ages.
Though a virtual fitting system on my hud would be nicer.
Or a test labotary for stress testing cap etc.
And before someone sayes it; no i won't load EVEmon or EVEfit or any other such thing as out-of-game mods/devices shouldn't limit the add-ons of main game *nod* |
Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.11.16 13:35:00 -
[52]
There is a number of things ccp could do to improve low-sec.
A ransom system, where the ransomed pilot pays the money to a 3rd party system, which goes tot he pirate when the ship is safe or goes back to the ransomed pilot when his ships dead.
But also sellable killrights whose owners are the only ones who can collect a bounty, as example, would make lowsec alot more interesting.
The gateguns need a big change, as theyre not only boring itself but also reduce a pirate to lesser ships then eve can offer but still dont add much protection.
Maybe some sort of concord spawns, gategun tracking and/or some new completely new OMGWTF system that makes things alot mroe interesting and less static, predictable.
That together with new content in lowsec and eve would be a better place :) -
Boosters and PirateProfessions
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ramification
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Posted - 2008.11.16 13:39:00 -
[53]
Edited by: ramification on 16/11/2008 13:47:00
There's already a solution to this: ask for less money.
Ransom victims are being asked to take a risk by trusting the pirate; all the current situation means is that the perceived risk is too high for it to be worth it. So pirates must lower the perceived risk by asking for a quarter of the ship's price, or the price you'll get anyway for salvaging the ship's modules (which still saves you the bother of having to sell them). Whatever. A ransom is free money anyway, a pirate isn't entitled to X percent of a ship's value just because he thinks he is, FFS.
Any ransom system would have to be impossible to exploit, which given that ransom is a trust exercise between two players wouldn't work because of alts. Add the insurance system making it economical for victims to blow their own ships up if they can get an escrow ransom back and we have a persuasive argument for pirates to STFU and lower their expectations.
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Incendi
Gracious Bodily Harm
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Posted - 2008.11.16 13:48:00 -
[54]
If only CCP had thought of this before... if there was some sort of bounty system that could be used as an indication as to whether a player is trustworthy... wait a minute... |
nobodyspecialhere
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.11.16 13:58:00 -
[55]
How about PieRats go out and get a real job and work for isk?
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno
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Posted - 2008.11.16 14:04:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Incendi If only CCP had thought of this before... if there was some sort of bounty system that could be used as an indication as to whether a player is trustworthy... wait a minute...
If you wonna be an ass atleast do your research otherwise youll look as stupid as.. well as you do right now -
Boosters and PirateProfessions
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr Proxenetae Invicti
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Posted - 2008.11.16 14:11:00 -
[57]
The CCP panel mentioned something along these lines, where you could scoop up a pod, scan for implants, and ransom based on that. One of the players then suggested you can commit suicide by blowing up your pod, which would take the ransoming ship with it. I like these ideas.
As for the ship ransoming, I think it should stick outside of a formal mechanic.
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AkRoYeR
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.11.16 14:19:00 -
[58]
First, I have seen some really useless threads, but this takes the cake.
There is no honor among theives, therefore this thread is moot. Now please please go play the game and stop whining about not getting your ransom. |
Gonada
Priory Of The Lemon
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Posted - 2008.11.16 14:21:00 -
[59]
yes, lets take every resoncability out of the players hands.
/sarcasm off |
Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2008.11.16 15:45:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: NoNah How about... loot?
The entire idea that you CAN blow it up anyway, and that you CAN let him go for a cheap chip is half the point imho. That you can ruine your reputation etc.
Ship/module loss: 2bil+, loot recovered: about 70-80m, incl. salvage. It's just not worth that much to blow stuff up when they can pay half of what it's worth and still save a bil or more.
And another pirate ransoms them next week and you get them again in a month and they're out of 3 billion.
Try 200 million next time. It's more than double what you would make in loot and actually likely to be accepted and paid.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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