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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.06 23:41:00 -
[481]
Originally by: LadyOfWrath The split is intended to bring stock value down to a a more managable level. At 50m I will issue a stock split to do so. As for taking stock out of circulation, I feel it to be the best way to spend this month's profits. Research is at max capacity, a dividend is scheduled for our 1 year anniversary and not before, and I want to remove some stocks from circulation prior to the split.
Your motives do not appear to concern profit maximizing at all, and that should be of a concern to your investors.
Why is buying back shares the best use of your corporations cash?
How is the stock split a benefit to your investors?
Why did you arbitrarily pick a year to be the point where you issue dividends?
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LadyOfWrath
Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.01.06 23:58:00 -
[482]
Why is buying back shares the best use of your corporations cash?
Research is at Max capacity as stated before.
How is the stock split a benefit to your investors?
A stock split is something i have wanted to do and has been announced for a very very long time. It provides no real benefit other than making stocks value stay at a more easily tradable level.
Why did you arbitrarily pick a year to be the point where you issue dividends?
The 1 year mark had been discussed by myself and others who are running the IPO. There is a point we need to stop growing and start paying our investors.
Any other question you would like to ask?
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.07 00:05:00 -
[483]
Originally by: LadyOfWrath Why is buying back shares the best use of your corporations cash?
Research is at Max capacity as stated before.
Originally by: LadyOfWrath
Why did you arbitrarily pick a year to be the point where you issue dividends?
The 1 year mark had been discussed by myself and others who are running the IPO. There is a point we need to stop growing and start paying our investors.
Wouldn't it make sense to stop growing when you can't support the reinvestment of your earnings at the current rate of return.
By say, returning cash to your investors in the form of a dividend?
Originally by: LadyOfWrath
How is the stock split a benefit to your investors?
A stock split is something i have wanted to do and has been announced for a very very long time. It provides no real benefit other than making stocks value stay at a more easily tradable level.
I thought above you said that no one has had any difficulty in selling their shares. Wouldn't that imply that they are at an easily to trade level?
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Marcus Baltar
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Posted - 2010.01.07 00:11:00 -
[484]
Originally by: LadyOfWrath The whole idea here is to make more profit for stockholders, keep my stocks as healthy as possible, and move closer to the stock split number of 50m per stock. In my opinion removing 200 stocks is one of the best ways to do this. A dividend would be meager at best at 8b and I see that ISK better used to increase everyone's profit.
Is the 8.2 billion ISK net profit from the month's activities, or "reserves" that you cannot find a better use for?
Why do you have to have a stock split at an NAV of 50,000,000 ISK per share? Why do you have to have a stock split at all?
Using current figures, the company's January 2010 NAV of 151,722,260,440.67 ISK is split between between the 3,727 shares for a NAV of 40,708,951.02 ISK per share.
With 200 less shares, the NAV would be 143,522,260,440.67 ISK (think that is right - the 8.2 billion ISK is leaving the company) divided by 3,527 shares for a NAV of 40,692,446.96 ISK per share.
If you pay the 8.2 billion as a dividend to the 3,727 shareholders, they would each receive 2,200,160.98 (with 27.54 swallowed by the EVE share system). This represents a 5.40% return on the current NAV (really 5.50% or higher as no trades are recorded above 40,000,000 ISK per share). --
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LadyOfWrath
Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.01.07 00:15:00 -
[485]
I am going to refer you back to the above post. Thats how it is. I would normally say at this point if you don't like it sell your stocks, but you don't own any.
I currenly own most of this IPO so I have already put my money where my mouth is on this decision. If other investors feel it is a poor choice then they have the right to voice their concern. Until then this is how it is.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.07 00:18:00 -
[486]
Originally by: LadyOfWrath I am going to refer you back to the above post. Thats how it is. I would normally say at this point if you don't like it sell your stocks, but you don't own any.
I currenly own most of this IPO so I have already put my money where my mouth is on this decision. If other investors feel it is a poor choice then they have the right to voice their concern. Until then this is how it is.
That's quite a cop out to avoid answering the kinds of questions you should be prepared to do when you announce something like this.
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LadyOfWrath
Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.01.07 00:22:00 -
[487]
Marcus do teh Math with the exact same NAV with different share amounts. The stocks are being purchased with this month's profits. NAV stays the exact same or goes up a bit while amount of total stocks gets cut by 200.
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.07 00:24:00 -
[488]
Originally by: LadyOfWrath Marcus do teh Math with the exact same NAV with different share amounts. The stocks are being purchased with this month's profits. NAV stays the exact same or goes up a bit while amount of total stocks gets cut by 200.
If you pay more than the current NAV for a share, the NAV of the rest of the shares goes down.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.01.07 00:25:00 -
[489]
Originally by: LadyOfWrath
I currenly own most of this IPO so I have already put my money where my mouth is on this decision. If other investors feel it is a poor choice then they have the right to voice their concern. Until then this is how it is.
Why not buy the shares you own back from yourself if you're set on getting those shares out of distribution? Titan BPC Auction Thread |
LadyOfWrath
Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.01.07 00:32:00 -
[490]
At the time of posting the announcement stock value was slightly over 41m EA. I had already created a new wallet for profits to go into after this point. Hence the purchase order is 41m per stock.
@AC155 - Yes i could do that and will if needed. I already have 50 stocks to purchase outside of my own though.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.07 03:28:00 -
[491]
If current figures for NAV are 151B that would include the 8.2B in cash. As Marcus states and it leaves the company the NAV per share will still stay the same at around 40M.
Now it would be assumed that the extra benefit would be for the dividends in further months when there are only 3527 shares.
Assuming dividends were the same for the next few months (8.2B per month) that would only be an extra payment of around 124,000 ISK per share.
For an investor to get the money back that is lost through the January dividend of 8.2B would take 17 months.
This share buyback isn't good value for shareholders at all. it is good value for you though. You are using shareholder money to reduce the public shareholding of your company, and take it closer to private as your ownership percentage increases with the buyback. Or if you buyback the shares from yourself you get to take money out of the company without effecting value of your shares.
In RL the justification of share buybacks is not just to support the share price but a way to use the spare cash so the company is not paying variable amounts of dividends, which looks poor from a shareholder point of view. There is the other side (e.g ExxonMobil) when exxon was buying back the stock when in the 80's and early 90's at a depressed price so when the value increased 5 fold they basically paid 16B for a 100B company (Mobil).
Neither of the above scenarios work in eve, and certainly have no value to shareholders.
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DrefsabZN
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.01.07 09:09:00 -
[492]
Tbh its fine for LoW to decide to do thing's like this, if you are unhappy you have the out of selling your shared, I for one am quite excited by this prospect as it means share price rises and later dividends.
If you don't want to support LoW in the buy back then I will be more than happy to buy your shares instead :P
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Jadun
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Posted - 2010.01.07 10:21:00 -
[493]
Edited by: Jadun on 07/01/2010 10:21:15
Originally by: DrefsabZN Tbh its fine for LoW to decide to do thing's like this, if you are unhappy you have the out of selling your shared, I for one am quite excited by this prospect as it means share price rises and later dividends.
If you don't want to support LoW in the buy back then I will be more than happy to buy your shares instead :P
yo ho
DrefabZN you seem to miss the point.
sure LoW has the power to decide whatever he wants. and nobody so far has been foced to sell shares. but buying back shares now and then later to do a stock split seems counter productive.
i would refer cosmos post in that regard. also as far as i remember there was never a time limit mentioned for dividends. as far as i knew Low said something about getting the liquid isk up to a level of 15 billion isk before starting paying dividends.
please take note that i said as far as i knew so i might be wrong. LoW is trying to push up the share price up to 50 mil, just to do a stock split then.
this 1 year time limit and the 50 mil share price seem to have been set in stone for LoW. i am not sure if that is wise but in the end i got no power to change his mind.
i just remember that i heard somewhere that plans never survive Rl or something like that.
jadun
P.S. DrefsabZN should i take you agreement with LoW buy back meaning that you will sell your 20 shares to LoW?
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DrefsabZN
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.01.07 10:50:00 -
[494]
Edited by: DrefsabZN on 07/01/2010 10:50:26 Lol I did see the point of what people are saying im just poking to try and see if anyone would sell to me instead :P Almost certainly isnt going to happy because with the push in share prices holding onto shares now and selling later is sure to net a nice profit.
As for my shares I only got them a few days ago, id by buying a hell of a lot more if I get chance (and more than LoW is trying to buy back).
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.07 16:16:00 -
[495]
Originally by: cosmoray
*Agreeing with me*
I love it when people around here actually understand what they are talking about.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.07 19:51:00 -
[496]
Edited by: cosmoray on 07/01/2010 19:51:27 I have been giving some further thought to this.
The very BEST (safest and well run) IPO's and bonds (I would include this one) return about 4% per month.
If you pay the dividend of 8.2B this IPO pays 5.4% per month.
People are much more likely to pay a premium if you are paying good dividends, and the sale price of shares will probably reflect a return of around 4%.
So to do some reverse maths, a 8.2B ISK payout which is a 4% ROI would value the company at 205B ISK.
That is a 33% INCREASE in share value.
Easily the best way to improve the share price is to pay a good dividend, then you could issue a stock split fairly quickly.
All this share buyback is doing is removing cash from the business and destroying shareholder value. This scenario is LESS likely to increase share price.
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LadyOfWrath
Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.01.11 21:04:00 -
[497]
Investor Vote
As many of you know we had recently decided to remove stocks from circulation. There was a few concerns over this, but not enough to warrent not doing it. Below you will find a few options laid out for One Stop Research to continue current operations.
1.) Continue growing to the 200b NAV mark then start paying Dividends. This will allow One Stop Research to aquire additonal capital ship BPOs needed to supplement the current growing inventory of capital component BPCs.
2.) Start Paying Dividends now and cap the NAV at 150b. This would mean anything in excess of 150b would be paid out as a dividend on the 1st of each month.
3.) Shrink the amount of ISK over the 150b NAV mark by buying up stocks with corporations liquid ISK. This will in effect be slowly making the corporation a private endevour. This will cause a rise in Stock value but not as much as paying dividends on a regular basis.
Investors please let me know what avenue you would like to progress towards.
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.01.11 22:28:00 -
[498]
Originally by: LadyOfWrath Investor Vote
As many of you know we had recently decided to remove stocks from circulation. There was a few concerns over this, but not enough to warrent not doing it. Below you will find a few options laid out for One Stop Research to continue current operations.
1.) Continue growing to the 200b NAV mark then start paying Dividends. This will allow One Stop Research to aquire additonal capital ship BPOs needed to supplement the current growing inventory of capital component BPCs.
2.) Start Paying Dividends now and cap the NAV at 150b. This would mean anything in excess of 150b would be paid out as a dividend on the 1st of each month.
3.) Shrink the amount of ISK over the 150b NAV mark by buying up stocks with corporations liquid ISK. This will in effect be slowly making the corporation a private endevour. This will cause a rise in Stock value but not as much as paying dividends on a regular basis.
Investors please let me know what avenue you would like to progress towards.
Looks like I'm late for the buying shares debate, anyway if you have reached the maximun research capacity, why would you want to increase the NAV further? If you have liquid unusued money the best thing to do is pay and reward your investors. The shares have been always bought over the NAV price due to the high quality of the company afaik and buying back shares at that price will damage the NAV and value and at the same time, it pictures one of two scenarios: 1)The shares lose value constantly (or reduce their rate of grow) losing the quality that now have, not rewarding the left investors because you do not pay dividends. 2)People refuses to sell because you plan on giving dividends later or the shares increase their traded value because they will net more benefit, leaving your buy order as the floor untouched price. Option 3 is the worst option for the company's health. The only reasons to buy shares would be if the trading price were falling and people could not sell their orders or to close business. If you feel that we need a split to reach more manageable price per share do the split now. 20M/share is as nice or even more than 25M/share, if high price per share is an issue, I don't see why we need to wait until it reaches 50M. I suppose option 1 implies setting up new laboratories and buying bpos, increasing the load, needing an extra effort now to set it up and then to maintain it. Seeing how not much time ago you planned on selling the company and now it seems to have reached a nice equilibrium, I would vote option 2 with no doubt. Increasing the NAV will make much more difficult to liquidate if/when we reach to that situation again.
EVEwatch Sidebar soon "It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. " |
Jadun
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Posted - 2010.01.11 23:50:00 -
[499]
Originally by: LadyOfWrath Investor Vote
As many of you know we had recently decided to remove stocks from circulation. There was a few concerns over this, but not enough to warrent not doing it. Below you will find a few options laid out for One Stop Research to continue current operations.
1.) Continue growing to the 200b NAV mark then start paying Dividends. This will allow One Stop Research to aquire additonal capital ship BPOs needed to supplement the current growing inventory of capital component BPCs.
2.) Start Paying Dividends now and cap the NAV at 150b. This would mean anything in excess of 150b would be paid out as a dividend on the 1st of each month.
3.) Shrink the amount of ISK over the 150b NAV mark by buying up stocks with corporations liquid ISK. This will in effect be slowly making the corporation a private endevour. This will cause a rise in Stock value but not as much as paying dividends on a regular basis.
Investors please let me know what avenue you would like to progress towards.
yo ho LoW
i am in for the long haul so i would vote ( with my 50 shares) for option 1.
not sure how long it would take to raise the NAV to 200 Billion. but i still believe that you have the best intentions.
me thinks option 3 stinks, if option 2 is chosen. you still might wanna try a new expansion after you payed dividends for a couple of month.
jadun
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LadyOfWrath
Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.01.12 05:58:00 -
[500]
I have listed the remainder of my stocks for sale via my stock market on my website. I am selling them to repay the 18b bond I have open and to raise ISK to purchase a T2 BPO offered to me from a friend.
This will make this IPO 100% public and allow me to invest more of my personal funds into my T2 project. Also decided to reactivate my alt to do some more pvping. The IPO will still be run as normal and the current vote will last through 1 Feb 09. So based on what people vote for is where the IPO will go over the next few months.
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LadyOfWrath
Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.01.12 06:24:00 -
[501]
All stocks have been reserved pending payment. Stocks held for 48 hours at request.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.12 07:10:00 -
[502]
Rather a wierd development.
A few days/week ago you listed your plan to repurchase some shares, told all people who commented against this as "this is how it is", and that you would vote your block of shares to do this.
A couple of days later you are liquidating your entire holding in One Stop Mining Shop? Before you paid any dividends? Before you reached your goals?
What's going on? You can't of been knocked back by some of the very reasonable comments?
Just seems very wierd in the space of a few days!!
I think the risk profile of these shares has just changed.
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LadyOfWrath
Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.01.12 07:16:00 -
[503]
Simple: I was offered a Sleipnir BPO at a very low price, however I don't have liquid ISK for it. My pvp character has been reactivated, but doens;t not have any ships or items needed. Bottom line is I needed ISK, don;t want to sell any fo my current T2 BPOs, so I sold my stocks. All my intentions for the IPO remain the same. The deal on the T2 BPO was hashed about 4 hours ago.
LoW
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LadyOfWrath
Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.01.14 03:57:00 -
[504]
One Stop Research IPO To Be Sold For 175b
I have enetered into negotiations and confirmed all details to sale One Stop and all assets for 175b Closing share price will be just shy of 47m per stock. All Investors will be paid following the closing of this sale. Grendell is acting as 3rd party during the sale of this IPO and will mediate all transfer procedures durign the process.
It has been a great ride everyone. My fiance wants me to cut back and I have run out of reasons to say no. This was the most lofical course of action at this time. It will ensure everyone gets paid and allow people to decide if they would like to continue in this venture as the new owner will be opening a bond offering. All details of the bond will be posted in a new thread. Grendell will be posting shortly to confirm his role in the sale.
I have enjoyed making a lot of ISK for everyone involved. Maybe down the road I will do an different IPO so keep your eyes out. Maybe when my son gets a bit older.
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Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
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Posted - 2010.01.14 03:58:00 -
[505]
Edited by: Grendell on 14/01/2010 04:03:27
Posting to confirm my role as the 3rd party for the transfer of the IPO.
The buyer of the IPO is Varo Jan. I will be taking control of the Alliance and corporation shares as well as CEO during the transfer process.
Varo Jan will be gathering funding for the purchase through a public bond offering which can be found here: Linkage
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.01.14 08:17:00 -
[506]
Originally by: LadyOfWrath One Stop Research IPO To Be Sold For 175b [...]
Were there any other bids for the business?
(I'm not suggesting that this looks like a horrible deal, I'm just curious about whether there were any other suitors in the wings.) á á
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LadyOfWrath
Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.01.14 09:12:00 -
[507]
I have been looking on and off for potential buyers for the last four months. This is the first offer in my price range with a concrete game plan. I turned away three individuals who had offered to buy up the IPO at lower prices. Also none fo the people in questions had a complete understanding of the operation and what it entails. Varo does.
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Roguehalo
Caldari Resonance Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.01.14 09:23:00 -
[508]
Originally by: LadyOfWrath One Stop Research IPO To Be Sold For 175b
I have enetered into negotiations and confirmed all details to sale One Stop and all assets for 175b Closing share price will be just shy of 47m per stock. All Investors will be paid following the closing of this sale. Grendell is acting as 3rd party during the sale of this IPO and will mediate all transfer procedures durign the process.
It has been a great ride everyone. My fiance wants me to cut back and I have run out of reasons to say no. This was the most lofical course of action at this time. It will ensure everyone gets paid and allow people to decide if they would like to continue in this venture as the new owner will be opening a bond offering. All details of the bond will be posted in a new thread. Grendell will be posting shortly to confirm his role in the sale.
I have enjoyed making a lot of ISK for everyone involved. Maybe down the road I will do an different IPO so keep your eyes out. Maybe when my son gets a bit older.
Varo Jan doesn't have any money and has just launched a 175b bond. It's very doubtful for a variety of reasons that this bond will succeed so I respectfully suggest you carry on looking for a buyer.
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Marcus Baltar
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Posted - 2010.01.18 11:39:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Marcus Baltar Apologies if I missed it, but have these following things been answered?
Originally by: Varo Jan The businesses currently generate profits in excess of ten billion ISK monthly.
Quoted from here. The reports by LOW do not seem to reflect this, as they only report variable increases in NAV.
Originally by: Varo Jan I¦ve reached an agreement in principle with LadyOfWrath which will allow his existing shareholders to effectively exchange their shares for my bonds, should they wish to do so. Exact details of the process have yet to be finalised.
Quoted from here. How can existing shareholders not have to hand over a doubling (or more or less) of the investment/exposure, before getting some of it back? Also, what is the actual worth of One Stop shares before the offering, and after?
Originally by: LadyOfWrath I have listed the remainder of my stocks for sale via my stock market on my website. I am selling them to repay the 18b bond I have open and to raise ISK to purchase a T2 BPO offered to me from a friend.
This will make this IPO 100% public and allow me to invest more of my personal funds into my T2 project. Also decided to reactivate my alt to do some more pvping. The IPO will still be run as normal and the current vote will last through 1 Feb 09. So based on what people vote for is where the IPO will go over the next few months.
and Originally by: LadyOfWrath All stocks have been reserved pending payment. Stocks held for 48 hours at request.
Quoted from here and here. LoW's Stock Market and Stock Ledger do not seem to show these posts?
Quoted from here. --
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.01.18 11:50:00 -
[510]
Originally by: Roguehalo
Varo Jan doesn't have any money and has just launched a 175b bond. It's very doubtful for a variety of reasons that this bond will succeed so I respectfully suggest you carry on looking for a buyer.
Well, Varo has raised over 50 billion in 4 days, so it looks like he is on track to succeed. The public element of the offering is 100% secured, with the collateral held by very trustworthy figures, so I don't know why anyone would think it a less secure investment than anything else on the market. Certainly a lot safer than the 3% offerings we have recently seen secured by nothing but rep.
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