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Mr Mucker
Gallente Hooride Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:25:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Mr Mucker on 03/11/2008 15:26:34 I would like some support from fellow players with regards to a disconnection I had yesterday. Firstly let me say that I was livid when it happened and I will also feel very let down if they do not re-imburse me for my loss to the point of that I may quit.
I am a fairly new player to eve as I have only been playing for about 2 months. Bear this in mind when you read this post. Here is what happened:
I decided to move my mining operation in 0.0 space. I found a nice spot where there was never any players so I decided to bite the bullet and go for it. I boarded my retriever with 2 ice harvesters and 2 warp core stabs equipped in case I got attacked by any pirates. I wasnÆt going to take anything in my cargo because it was too much to risk but then I decided I couldnÆt be bothered doing the journey twice. I filled the whole cargo space with minerals, 4 mining drones, 4 med scout drones, 2 strip miners and minerals. I then spent a whole hour flying through about 10 0.0 systems and dodging pirates along the way. I got targeted a couple of times and almost warp scrammed but my stabs allowed me to escape. At some times I had to dock and wait until pirates had gone. I eventually got to my destination. As I made my final jump I selected the station in the overview and selected dock. My ship warped away and I arrived at the station. Just before my ship was to dock someone started targeting me. Of course I was slightly amused and calm that I was safe because I was just about to dock. Then I get disconnected! Of course I am panicking by now and start trying to log back in as fast as I can hoping that my ship has survived long enough for me to spam the dock button but I was too late. I had been cloned and lost almost all my savings. I was furious to say the least at how unlucky I was. I was even more angry when I asked in the local channel as to whether anyone else had been disconnected. At least 10 people replied saying that they were disconnected also. I lost about 30 mils worth of goods.
Now I know that some of you more experienced players are probably laughing by now thinking ôIs that all??ö. Yes I know 30 mil isnÆt much to you guys but to me to make this much money back will take about 3 weeks. Now I can accept it if it was my fault. I mean I took the risks of flying through low sec but I did everything right. I spent an hour dodging from belts to belts and sitting in stations waiting for pirates to go. And to get all the way there and be 2 SECONDS away from safety.... Anyway I am getting sick of these disconnections lately. The reason I have come on here is because I I would like to know peoples thoughts on this and I have raised a petition about it yesterday but had no response yet. I have also read the re-imbursement policy and there is a good chance I might not get my cargo back based on it. If I have been disconnected through no fault of my own I donÆt care about their pathetic rules they should re-imburse me! The way I see it, if I donÆt get re-imbursed then what is the point?? I mean yes we play this game for fun but you also like to progress in the game. It will take me 3 weeks to recover from this and why should I pay for it??
Anyway there is my moan and my case ;-) Now I know a load of you are going to have questions so IÆll clear up a lot of things here first.
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Mr Mucker
Gallente Hooride Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:27:00 -
[2]
WhoÆs fault was is it?? Maybe it was my ISP or my internet connection.
1.The DC was not at my end. It was their end û Without going on about how I am so sure all I will say is that my job is in IT. I have been doing this job for 10 years and specialise in networks and TCP/IP. I am 100% confident that if the GMÆs can be bothered to investigate the logs they will see that there was an issue. My DC happened at 16:40 Sunday game time. Anyone get this as well? Please comment if you did. 2.At least 10 other users also had the same issue so it is not my fault. Again even if CCPÆs logs donÆt show certain info all they need to do is pull up the logs for that system at that time (which I can provide) and see everyone talking about it, this is proof enough. 3.Straight after the DC my internet was working fine, I could browse the web but not log back into Eve for about 30 secs. This is the best evidence I have that the issue was not mine. Of course I canÆt prove this to CCP but because of this fact I know with 100% certainty that it was an issue their hand and this CAN BE PROVED if they look into it.
ôDonÆt go into low sec if you canÆt accept losing a shipö or ôdonÆt haul your whole savings in one shipö. I have seen saying like this on other topics when someone whinges about losing a ship.
Regardless of what you think the fact remains that the issue was caused by a dc. Yes I accept the fact I took risks flying through low sec in a ship filled with goods but I knew the risks and I was prepared for the consequences. But the fact is that I took all relevant precautions, this is why I didnÆt get killed. I had pirates chasing me but I had stabs on and docked when relevant.
Please remember as well before you comment that although it is only 30 mil (which is nothing to some of you) convert this into time instead. See this as a waste of time rather than money. It would take me 3 weeks to earn this money back at the moment because of my limited skills. How would you more experienced players like to just throw away 3 weeks of your time for nothing?
The bottom line is that it is their fault this happened and I should be re-imbursed. It simply isnÆt fair if they choose not to. What do you reckon?
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fiber0pti
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:28:00 -
[3]
tl;dr Please resize signature to the maxim allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator |
Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:33:00 -
[4]
I'd like a reimbursement from your wall of text for my eye surgery. Or are you just going to let me bleed to death?
Scared of the events forum? |
Selorian
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: fiber0pti tl;dr
What he said
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:34:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mr Mucker I will also feel very let down if they do not re-imburse me for my loss to the point of that I may quit.
Ok. Bye-bye then.
From the Reimbursement policy, section 1.c: Quote: Losses caused due to disconnection as a direct result of a server node drop or an unannounced server downtime may be reimbursed pending investigation by, and at the discretion of, a GM. Ships lost due to lag or non-server related disconnection will not be reimbursed.
From the EULA, section 12. No Warranties: Quote: While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:36:00 -
[7]
Secure 3rd party service ■ Veldspar |
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:37:00 -
[8]
So like, you and 10 other people, but magically NOT the people attacking you were disconnected?
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Maria Kalista
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:39:00 -
[9]
Oh. No, no, no noooooo, not this again! The horror!
/jumps out of the nearest window and curses cause she's on ground level!
Originally by: CCP Mitnal You put a bear in your tea???
Clear Skies - an EVE vid with a difference.
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Mukiri
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mr Mucker WhoÆs fault was is it?? Maybe it was my ISP or my internet connection.
1.The DC was not at my end. It was their end û Without going on about how I am so sure all I will say is that my job is in IT. I have been doing this job for 10 years and specialise in networks and TCP/IP. I am 100% confident that if the GMÆs can be bothered to investigate the logs they will see that there was an issue. My DC happened at 16:40 Sunday game time. Anyone get this as well? Please comment if you did.?
As a TCP.IP specialist I am a bit suprised at your complaint and willingness to lay total and complete blame. Surely you must realise that the fault for the disconnect could lie at THOUSANDS of potential causes. It could have been at any of the jumps between your hookup and theirs. Unless you keep real time diagnostics alwa6ys running on your PC you cannot rule ot the game install or other software on your own PC.
I feel your pain, I am sure we all do but the arguement about not flying anything you cannot afford to lose is made for a reason. There are way to many possibilities for disconnect or lag that NO ONE can control and thus the lose can happen with no one being truly at fault.
I do encourage you to put in a petition, but understand they might not find this as their fault. If you know a way to make every TCP/IP connection that crosses the planet or even the back yard 100% stable with zero possibility of issue then please get a company to back you and make your fortune. However I would say your certainty that it has to be someone elses fault rings of whining. CCP cannot control the MANY connections between your ISP and thier service and to hold them to taks on an issue that has a much higher chance of being at the middle of the connection instead of the end is not fair.
This is the bane of all internet gaming.
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Tasty Bit
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:42:00 -
[11]
lol. Don't hold your breath.
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sxndy
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:44:00 -
[12]
Rules is:
CCP appear to have elevated their status to Gods a while back. Acts of God/s doesnÆt count, so you loose. Smiting will follow soon, the runes said so.
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brinelan
Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:44:00 -
[13]
Don't fly what you can't lose. And I hope you had docking rights at that 0.0 station or you would have died even if you hadn't disconnected. --------------------------
Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield |
Vak'ran
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mr Mucker ... I have raised a petition about it yesterday but had no response yet.
...there is a good chance I might not get my cargo back based on it. If I have been disconnected through no fault of my own I donÆt care about their pathetic rules they should re-imburse me!
(...)
Suggestion: wait for a response on your petition before going ape**** like this. They get a lot of these on a daily basis, you cannot expect investigation with immediate result, neither have you much basis to assume the worst. -----
Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forums. |
Kobushi
OCForums
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:47:00 -
[15]
your stuff can I have when you ragequit please
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Eradication Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Winterblink So like, you and 10 other people, but magically NOT the people attacking you were disconnected?
In fairness this does seem to be a common problem these days.
happens all the time, in fact...
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MyOwnSling
Gallente RONA Corporation RONA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Winterblink So like, you and 10 other people, but magically NOT the people attacking you were disconnected?
I endorse this. ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
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Firkragg
Blue Labs Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:52:00 -
[18]
You can always askl to escalate to a higher GM.
If you are in IT though you should realise that the internet isnt just you -- CCP. There are infact a number of networks between you and CCP and if only a group of players (not al players) DC at once its entirely possible it was due to one of those network links.
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Vak'ran Do you insist on recompence from your employer if you get wet underway to work because its raining? Or demand a dryer to be on standby? No?
…actually, my employer has a dryer on standby.
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:57:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Andrue on 03/11/2008 15:59:18
Originally by: Mr Mucker WhoÆs fault was is it?? Maybe it was my ISP or my internet connection.
1.The DC was not at my end. It was their end û Without going on about how I am so sure all I will say is that my job is in IT. I have been doing this job for 10 years and specialise in networks and TCP/IP. I am 100% confident that if the GMÆs can be bothered to investigate the logs they will see that there was an issue. My DC happened at 16:40 Sunday game time. Anyone get this as well? Please comment if you did.
If that's the best that 10 years of experience can produce then you need to retrain. With no obvious problems lighting up the forums it seems more likely to have been a glitch with a transit point somewhere close to CCP.
If the fault was within CCP's cluster or their proxies thousands of people would have DCd. The forums would have lit up like a Christmas tree with whiners. A few dozen people is more likely somewhere two or three jumps out from CCP. Exactly where..who knows? Unlikely to be CCP since a fault there would affect hundreds if not thousands of people.
A true network professional would know better than to point the blame on so little evidence. Packet drops are part of the nature of the Internet. They are a fact of life like potholes in the road. Getting worked up over one is silly.
It's because they are so endemic that CCP's EULA specifically excludes them as a reason for reimbursement.
Originally by: Mr Mucker Again even if CCPÆs logs donÆt show certain info all they need to do is pull up the logs for that system at that time (which I can provide) and see everyone talking about it, this is proof enough.
You've never worked in tech support then? Users lie, exagerate, misquote and are generally very unreliable witnesses. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
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Vak'ran
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Vak'ran Do you insist on recompence from your employer if you get wet underway to work because its raining? Or demand a dryer to be on standby? No?
àactually, my employer has a dryer on standby.
Mighty nice of them - would you have demanded it if it was absent? -----
Vak'Ran is your local official non-dedicated part-time advocate of reading comprehension and proliferation of intelligence on the EVE Online Forums. |
Mr Mucker
Gallente Hooride Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.03 15:59:00 -
[22]
lol,I knew I was setting myself up for this kind of abuse.
Thanks for the constructive criticism Mukiri (about the only one!). Yes it could be anywhere along the path from my router to the CCP servers but they already admitted about a week ago that they had network problems which caused major connection problems. The symptoms here were exactly the same and as I mentioned a lot of other players had the same issues.
Winterblink, it makes me laugh when idiots like you post messages like this Quote: So like, you and 10 other people, but magically NOT the people attacking you were disconnected?
thinking you are being clever and funny. Not everyone gets disconnected you know. Why donÆt you do a bit of research first. The issues I mentioned above that happened last week only seemed to have affected European users, other areas where ok. Do you think I would have been so stupid as to not work this out?? It just shows you stupid you are thinking this.
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.11.03 16:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Vak'ran Mighty nice of them - would you have demanded it if it was absent?
Don't destroy my "better than you"-moment with relevant questions!
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.11.03 16:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mr Mucker Winterblink, it makes me laugh when idiots like you post messages like this Quote: So like, you and 10 other people, but magically NOT the people attacking you were disconnected?
thinking you are being clever and funny. Not everyone gets disconnected you know. Why donÆt you do a bit of research first. The issues I mentioned above that happened last week only seemed to have affected European users, other areas where ok. Do you think I would have been so stupid as to not work this out?? It just shows you stupid you are thinking this.
It actually was a serious question. It's sad you didn't get that.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.11.03 16:04:00 -
[25]
Quote: Without going on about how I am so sure all I will say is that my job is in IT. I have been doing this job for 10 years and specialise in networks and TCP/IP.
You and the other 12,000 people who petition daily about ship losses.
If you work in IT, then you shoud be fully aware of the amount of hops across different networks, through routers, firewalls and hundreds of miles of cable it takes to connect your PC's ethernet port to Tranquility.
Any link in the chain could have failed, and it's no more CCP's fault than it is yours.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.11.03 16:08:00 -
[26]
my fault i was dleeting 3862 bokmarks all in one go =P right in the same syustem you were in :P if you didnt plan or want to loose your ship they do say that you should reamin docked and ocne you undock you should expect everything
you know it does come up with a warning once you leave empire that you wont be saved, and does include server shortages :P
you took the gamble or taking everything your had and you lost that it next time make sure you have a back up barge in empire so you can mine you hearts out of what ever
The EvE LifeÖ Blog bringing you the blogs that really matter working in conjunction with EVE Network NewsÖ |
Mr Mucker
Gallente Hooride Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.03 16:10:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Mr Mucker on 03/11/2008 16:12:24 Andrue, I can't be bothered to even entertain you. I knew this would probably happen as well. Someone who knows a bit about IT (you sound like a professional yourself, are you?) would come on and try to find holes in every little aspect of my post just to feed their own ego on how much more they know about networks than me. I knew that even if I wrote chapter and verse about why I came to my conclusions someone would still try to rip it to pieces. I know a lot more than you think and I am only just summerising it all up. Yes there is no way to be certain is what CCP but the evidence does point towards them. Nothing in computer is certain (except a few things). It is mainly just probability based. You have a problem, you know the likely causes of about 10 then from your experience you choose what is most common or likely and investigate that first then move onto the others possibilites. This how you troubleshoot problems. But as we both know to investigate this myself and be 100% sure with evidence isn't going to happen. There is too much involved. As I said i was summarising to be more techincal specific I would give it a 95% chance it is CCP.
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Mr Mucker
Gallente Hooride Raiders
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Posted - 2008.11.03 16:16:00 -
[28]
In all fairness guys if it turns out not to be a CCP issue I will accept this. What this topic is about is whether you agree or disagree with re-imbursement IF it is a CCP side issue the fine I will accept this.
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Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.03 16:17:00 -
[29]
If you are fast, you can go check the server statistics from yesterday 16:40 before they arent on the 24 hour graph anymore:
http://eve.coldfront.net/status/tranquility
If you are too late or too lazy to check, there is nothing vissible, not even a slight drop in people on the server (and yeah it would be vissible if for 30 secs many people would be disconnected).
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Karanth
Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.11.03 16:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Mr Mucker Edited by: Mr Mucker on 03/11/2008 16:19:29 Edited by: Mr Mucker on 03/11/2008 16:12:24 Andrue, I can't be bothered to even entertain you. I knew this would probably happen as well. Someone who knows a bit about IT (you sound like a professional yourself, are you?) would come on and try to find holes in every little aspect of my post just to feed their own ego on how much more they know about networks than me. I knew that even if I wrote chapter and verse about why I came to my conclusions someone would still try to rip it to pieces. I know a lot more than you think and I am only just summerising it all up. Yes there is no way to be certain is what CCP but the evidence does point towards them. Nothing in computer is certain (except a few things). It is mainly just probability based. You have a problem, you know the likely causes of about 10 of them, then from your experience you choose what is most common or likely cause and investigate that first then move onto the others possibilites. This how you troubleshoot problems. But as we both know to investigate this myself and be 100% sure with evidence isn't going to happen. There is too much involved. As I said i was summarising, to be more techincal specific I would give it a 95% chance it is CCP.
Originally by: History Every other OP like this: It's definitely CCP's fault! Well, most definitely likely CCP's fault!
Someone who read the EULA: CCP won't reimburse this.
Every other OP like this: They better! It's their fault I think!
CCP: The logs, they show nothing.
---
Wheel of Whineage |
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