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Grumpy Owly
573
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Posted - 2012.04.03 08:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:It's fairly obvious that pretension is your game, and as such no real, civilized debate can be had with you. You're simply an aggrieved victim who deludes himself into thinking that new game mechanics that expose gankers to more sources of hostility will somehow make them concentrate on shooting each other and forget all about killing haulers and miners.
Herpderp,
Erm, I'm promoting Bounty Hunting, would be pretty ineffectual as a gameplay option if there were no criminal targets don't you think? 
As such my argument has never been that Suicide ganking should be removed as a valid gameplay option.
Please take a few moments to engage brain for once. Bounty Hunting for CSM7
It's just criminal - Smuggling |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
324
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Posted - 2012.04.03 08:37:00 -
[62] - Quote
Promoting bounty hunting isn't the problem per se.
It's that you're doing it in the same manner, and for the same reason, that people promoted the removal of insurance to losses from CONCORD.
You will be solely disappointed when bounty hunting (and yes, I'm sure transferable kill rights will finally be implemented within the next year or two) has effects that are significantly different than the ones you hope for. |

Grumpy Owly
573
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Posted - 2012.04.03 08:50:00 -
[63] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Promoting bounty hunting isn't the problem per se.
It's that you're doing it in the same manner, and for the same reason, that people promoted the removal of insurance to losses from CONCORD.
You will be solely disappointed when bounty hunting (and yes, I'm sure transferable kill rights will finally be implemented within the next year or two) has effects that are significantly different than the ones you hope for.
Whats it going to be? Above you say it won't prevent criminal activity now your saying it has different hopes?
Comments I have noticed in C&P previously is they would welcome the chance to have their occupation enlivened with more meaningful gameplay. Mainly since they are more concenered about the fun elements of EVE than being solely focussed on a meta win mentality. They actually would rise to the challenge of being confronted in their activities. There is also the consideration that it might add an ability to seperate the effective criminal element from simple opportunists, potentially removing competition to the most effective criminals. Or those that can adapt to anything than just hanging at a Jita gate and picking off the most juicy pinatas.
Otherwise I'd be pretty dissapointed with the Criminal fraternity if they simply rolled over due to the reality of possibly being shot at, especially when there is the possibility of surviving said encounter.
As such I have a more encouraging vision from my crystal ball and certainly have more confidence in the tenacity and confidence of the criminal element we have in EVE today. Bounty Hunting for CSM7
It's just criminal - Smuggling |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
324
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Posted - 2012.04.03 08:55:00 -
[64] - Quote
So would you consider it a victory or a loss if suicide-ganking, say, doubles after bounty hunting is implemented? |

Grumpy Owly
573
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Posted - 2012.04.03 09:00:00 -
[65] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:So would you consider it a victory or a loss if suicide-ganking, say, doubles after bounty hunting is implemented?
Good question though it is more a correction than an implementation.
My answer would be that I'd see it as a victory for more EVE gameplay options in the sandbox.
And in respect to the topic in this thread, I'd see it as promoting more PvP. Bounty Hunting for CSM7
It's just criminal - Smuggling |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
324
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Posted - 2012.04.03 09:03:00 -
[66] - Quote
And a follow-up question: would you then search for other corrections that would mitigate suicide-ganking? |

Grumpy Owly
573
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Posted - 2012.04.03 09:14:00 -
[67] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:And a follow-up question: would you then search for other corrections that would mitigate suicide-ganking?
My current view personally is that I'd see the BH system as potentially being an activity that can be used to counteract the criminal element or offer a choice for player policing and afford more player control due to choice of activities either way as opposed to having to complain to CCP about just the criminal mechanics.
With the BH options the argument can be self regulated by players as the option and tools are there to be used in the sandbox. So if BH is seen as effective then the main aspects of arena for the "balancing" could be taken away from CCP in theory.
Not sure if its naive to assume it's the holy grail of forum argument removal as a result, but for me I'd like to place that kind of confidence in the players with it's use. Bounty Hunting for CSM7
It's just criminal - Smuggling |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
324
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Posted - 2012.04.03 09:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
I see. Well, that's certainly a rational approach, when dealing with rational people. However, most EVE players aren't rational.
I could say something like "the tools for player policing already exist," and I'd be only half-right. They do exist, though are somewhat inadequate. (I'd also like to go on a quick tangent and mention that removing CONCORD would certainly be a boon to player policing.)
The real problem with this whole thing isn't that changes are bad, but that carebears, no matter how many player policing tools and player control they are given, won't ever be happy, because the concept of player initiative goes against their very nature. No matter how many bones you throw them, no matter how many opportunities for player control you will provide, they won't be happy until CCP's lengthy series of concessions reaches its logical conclusion: the removal of the ability to aggress anyone without consent.
And that brings us full-circle to the subject matter of this thread. |

Grumpy Owly
573
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Posted - 2012.04.03 09:37:00 -
[69] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:I see. Well, that's certainly a rational approach, when dealing with rational people. However, most EVE players aren't rational.
I could say something like "the tools for player policing already exist," and I'd be only half-right. They do exist, though are somewhat inadequate. (I'd also like to go on a quick tangent and mention that removing CONCORD would certainly be a boon to player policing.)
The real problem with this whole thing isn't that changes are bad, but that carebears, no matter how many player policing tools and player control they are given, won't ever be happy, because the concept of player initiative goes against their very nature. No matter how many bones you throw them, no matter how many opportunities for player control you will provide, they won't be happy until CCP's lengthy series of concessions reaches its logical conclusion: the removal of the ability to aggress anyone without consent.
And that brings us full-circle to the subject matter of this thread.
Please dont confuse the introduction of an effective BH system with the removal of Concord. Given the current situation and player abilities that's an unrealistic goal. Suggest reading some of the proposals in the link below to see suggestions regarding the mechanics.
I can't vouch for every player's opinions no. But then again the extreme threads we see regarding consensual PvP I don't feel should be used as an argument that everyone in EVE follows as a philosophy, similarly to threads about PvP dieing in HS. Bounty Hunting for CSM7
It's just criminal - Smuggling |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
487
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Posted - 2012.04.03 10:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Next they'll make it so 1v1 duels don't allow people to have 5 neutral RRs on their side too!
This will be DEATH SENTENCE for ALL FAIR PvP!
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
487
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Posted - 2012.04.03 10:38:00 -
[71] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:I've been "following my own advice" for the past decade. The only reason I AM HONOURABLE FORUM WARRIOR is to let CCP know that there is indeed opposition to their tendency to soften the game.
How does it get softer? We'll get more targets, this means more PvP potential not less.
How is it NOW harder? We have less targets and those don't even fight back. Odd concept of "PvP". It's more like farming, a typical PvE activity. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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