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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Grim Vandal
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.26 12:48:00 -
[91]
I can only say that these changes are totally consisten with how I envision this game to evolve. Yes there is this big picture hanging on the wall. Therefor I would like to thank the devs for the good job they are imo doing.
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.26 13:20:00 -
[92]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Why would you not simply fly a command ship or even a battlecruiser instead?
Because command ships and battle cruisers are large enough to get spanked by battleships.
As is your battleship with unbonused undersized weapons.
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.26 13:27:00 -
[93]
Originally by: MotherMoon hey are far from standard, and I'm glad to see them pushed back into a role.
If the intended role of battleships is only to attack other battleships and be vulnerable to paired or single cruisers then they become. effectively, useless. If the ship is only a counter to itself then the winning answer is not to bring any since any you encounter will then present a minimal threat. |
Jack Gilligan
Caldari THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.26 13:37:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Originally by: MotherMoon hey are far from standard, and I'm glad to see them pushed back into a role.
If the intended role of battleships is only to attack other battleships and be vulnerable to paired or single cruisers then they become. effectively, useless. If the ship is only a counter to itself then the winning answer is not to bring any since any you encounter will then present a minimal threat.
Yep, if it comes down to a choice between T2 cruisers/BC's and battleships with clown fits (which fitting smaller weapons amounts to) then people will quit using BS's in pvp, they will become rat/mission ships exclusively.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.26 13:43:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 26/10/2008 13:46:50 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 26/10/2008 13:46:01
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Yep, if it comes down to a choice between T2 cruisers/BC's and battleships with clown fits (which fitting smaller weapons amounts to) then people will quit using BS's in pvp, they will become rat/mission ships exclusively. In PVP Battleships will be good for what... Attacking other battleships? Won't be needed, since smaller ships will do the job. Attacking cyno jammers? Yep, that's about it.
Nonsense. BS gangs will melt face, and easily gank small ships. Sure, you can mantain transversal in a solo situation by orbiting up close. Now try vs 4-5 webs, 1-2 heavy neutralizers, focus droning from 5 ships and everyone being a few km apart.
Your HAC dies in seconds, and any damage you output is trivially countered by the fact everyone has 120K-150K+ EHP and RRs. That is how BS gangs are flown now, and their effectiveness will not be diminished much on SISI.
All this really affects solo situations only. The only thing the changes mean is that solo battleships are dead. To think BS are in general useless is being silly, at best.
Originally by: Femaref
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Why would you not simply fly a command ship or even a battlecruiser instead?
Because command ships and battle cruisers are large enough to get spanked by battleships.
That gotta be a joke? I tested it, Electron fitted Megathron vs Sleipnir at around 3km, 0 m/s transversal. He tanked me with his LARGE shield booster, without even using his cap boosters. I'm nearly maxed in Turrets. So better play your own game before expressing thoughts that only can be coming from the bottom end of your digestive tract.
Sleipnirs can of course active tank quite a bit, particularly with crystals (which most SISI pilots have, heh). With electrons (lol) and no heavy neut, ofc you're not going to break it.
However, Sleipnir for solo... well, it's like this. After MWD/web/scram and a cap booster you have a 1-slot tank. Most people for 'solo' sleipnirs will opt for a MWD/disruptor. Given now MWD is trivially disabled, I don't think Sleipnir is a good solo ship anymore, to be honest.
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mduncan0341
Infusion. G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.26 13:49:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Seriously? Some of your answers sound pretty ridiculous. Fit smaller weapons? You're actually suggesting that I fit medium blasters to my Megathron?
Drones- sure, if you're in 0.0, or doing any other sort of PVP besides pirating at a gate or station. Drones aren't a viable option for pirates. Frankly I think they shouldn't be shot at by gate guns, would fix a lot of problems. But that's another issue.
High HP? What if you're not the aggressor? What if you've been tackled in a belt and are now stuck with your useless main guns?
Neutralizers? So you're saying that it's the party line that all BS need to fit a mandatory neut as a defense against smaller ships?
More slots for EW countermeasures? On what ships? The Geddon, Apoc, Megathron, Abaddon or Typhoon? What good is ECM going to do without a dedicated ECM fit with signal distortion amps anyway?
We already have battleship fits where smaller ships are able to avoid 100% of their fire: those fit with long range turrets. Short range guns should work for short range combat. And there is a BIG difference between "less effective" and "completely useless".
I think that you know that blasters are broken and you can't fix them, and now this situation is a 'feature', not a 'bug'. Blasters have zero flexibility and only do one thing well, and now they can't even do that.
The new agility changes on SISI aren't all that great. Blaster ships are still worse off on SISI than on TQ. Last I heard this patch was supposed to be a speed patch nerfing nano fits, not blaster ships.
I think that when the patch goes live, blaster ships will completely ineffective when compared to how they currently exist on TQ. I really don't think this was a needed change.
^This to be honest, he speaks the truth. Lol @ fitting smaller weapons on BS, people get kicked out of pvp corps for that kind of thing. Its a disaster on singularity. |
The Djego
Minmatar merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.10.26 13:54:00 -
[97]
Edited by: The Djego on 26/10/2008 13:57:07 Edited by: The Djego on 26/10/2008 13:55:22
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
In PVP Battleships will be good for what... Attacking other battleships? Won't be needed, since smaller ships will do the job. Attacking cyno jammers? Yep, that's about it.
No the real qutestion is if a solo battleships can only fight of other solo Battleships any more, where do you find this other Battleship since this Battleship must also look for another Battleship to fight.
Is it just me or does this sound realy stupid.
Imagine Intel:
Me: "Hey guyes im here with a BS have you seen a other BS around?" The other guyes: "Nope." Me: "OK, i fly back, dock and get another ship to fight sub BS ships." The other guyes: "OK, do this, why do you fly BS anyway, nobody flyes BS anymore so you donŠt get a fight with another BS." Me: "Well still worth a try, might find another one someday." The other guyes: "Lol, stop flying BS stupid"
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Terra Mikael
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.10.26 14:03:00 -
[98]
No matter what happens, this is sure to be a dominix / arazu boost |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2008.10.26 14:20:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Terra Mikael No matter what happens, this is sure to be a dominix / arazu boost
Both are useless for low sec piracy around gates and stations however. |
mamolian
Madhatters Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.26 15:01:00 -
[100]
Edited by: mamolian on 26/10/2008 15:04:43 Edited by: mamolian on 26/10/2008 15:01:45
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Why would you not simply fly a command ship or even a battlecruiser instead?
Because command ships and battle cruisers are large enough to get spanked by battleships.
Nozh are you one of the made up devs CCP use to take the flak for all these ****ing stupid decisions which have been made recently? Your quickly becoming the pariah my friend. -----------
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.26 15:06:00 -
[101]
To clarify I, and I would assume Jack, were speaking on the result if this intent is achieved.
Of course multiple battleships will still melt faces with the current changes, though autos and blasters will remain far less efficient for the task.
But if the intent is that they should not be able to hit smaller class ships then the result is a near worthless shipclass once that design goal is met.
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SunTzuCsu
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.26 16:00:00 -
[102]
After reading the dev replies in this thread, I think it's safe to say Eve is royally screwed.
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Sikander 2
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Posted - 2008.10.26 17:10:00 -
[103]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
The ability to actually fit smaller weapons to fend of smaller targets
For example, the raven could fit a couple of medium railguns or blasters in its two spare high slots, or the armageddon can fit a smartbomb in its spare high slot to deter smaller ships that can't tank that - the range for scrams is only 7500m, and a smartbomb can probably reach them if they have to come close |
Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.26 17:33:00 -
[104]
Gimme a break. People will just fly what allows them to hit and actually damage things above and below their weight class. Ie: HACs, BC, maybe CS. Even so, AF gangs are going to be nasty as sh*t I bet.
If I need a freekin a painter to deal with another BS and painter and a web to deal with a BC (it's like this on test now) then to hell with flying a BS. *shrugs*
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.10.26 17:43:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Originally by: MotherMoon hey are far from standard, and I'm glad to see them pushed back into a role.
If the intended role of battleships is only to attack other battleships and be vulnerable to paired or single cruisers then they become. effectively, useless. If the ship is only a counter to itself then the winning answer is not to bring any since any you encounter will then present a minimal threat.
no the role should be to deal out damage to other battleship and tackled smaller ships.
What is wrong with a ship whoes role is to one shot smaller ships that was been cuaght in an allies web?
Wouldn't that make since?
If you take this whole change as a one on one situation only and then on TQ, after the speed changes in nothing but cruisers, my fleet of battleships and frigates and some minmatar recons will wipe you out.
Once again, what's wrong with making these bigger ships useless agaisnt smaller ships without support?
and as other have said there are other ways of dealing with the smaller targets, but your high damage output would go down.
I'm just saying the battleships ships role should be massive damage, massive tank, but in the end be the damage for frigates which are locking down targets.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Nonsense. BS gangs will melt face, and easily gank small ships. Sure, you can mantain transversal in a solo situation by orbiting up close. Now try vs 4-5 webs, 1-2 heavy neutralizers, focus droning from 5 ships and everyone being a few km apart.
Your HAC dies in seconds, and any damage you output is trivially countered by the fact everyone has 120K-150K+ EHP and RRs. That is how BS gangs are flown now, and their effectiveness will not be diminished much on SISI.
the issue here is people are ignoring the fact that in PvP you will have 4-5 webs on you. |
Sekket
Caldari White-Noise
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Posted - 2008.10.26 17:44:00 -
[106]
So CCP expects battleships to mount smaller weapons to fend of cruisers and frigates?
Ok, if CCP really expects this to work then they need to un-nerf the twin weapons, give them the exact same stats as the smaller gun they are based on, including ammo size, with 2x the rate of fire.
Introduce large quad guns, with the same stats as frigate sized weapons, but 4x the rate of fire.
Do the same for missile and rocket launchers.
Then I'd consider it a viable option. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.10.26 17:46:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Izo Alabaster
Originally by: MotherMoon
In real life fleets have many battleships, however they are outnumbered by the support craft in every situation. all the battleships are good for is laying waste with thier gaint guns, a fleet of battleships would fall to a fleet of smaller ships that could actully hit the battleships .
I'm sorry, but this is completely incorrect. Battleships, in their prime, were one of the support ships for the aircraft carrier,
ok ok you got me.
on that note in a real life situation battleships would have flak guns and kill anything small in seaconds, they would have charges to kill ships unseen, heavy guns, medims guns, depht charges, and basicly be able to kill anything!
which as cool as that would be balance is cool too :P |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.26 17:51:00 -
[108]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Izo Alabaster
Originally by: MotherMoon
In real life fleets have many battleships, however they are outnumbered by the support craft in every situation. all the battleships are good for is laying waste with thier gaint guns, a fleet of battleships would fall to a fleet of smaller ships that could actully hit the battleships .
I'm sorry, but this is completely incorrect. Battleships, in their prime, were one of the support ships for the aircraft carrier,
ok ok you got me.
on that note in a real life situation battleships would have flak guns and kill anything small in seaconds, they would have charges to kill ships unseen, heavy guns, medims guns, depht charges, and basicly be able to kill anything!
which as cool as that would be balance is cool too :P
Yea im sure that most eve BS pilots would enjoy having the equivalent of a couple of goalkeepers on the spare slots of their ships.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SWZ2wCcvXRQ |
Musashibou Benkei
Caldari Combined Imperial Fleet
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Posted - 2008.10.26 18:25:00 -
[109]
I think that this new patch is going to be released just to show the EVE community how incompetent CCP is and how the devs/GM's actually have nfi about PLAYING the game other than flying around in their invulnerable Jove ships. It's a trend that they like to screw current things over instead of coming up with actual new stuff. The Orca seems to be the only beacon of light in all of this mayhem of hate and ******edness |
Femaref
Armageddon Day
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Posted - 2008.10.26 18:53:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Cpt Branko silly, at best.
Originally by: Femaref stuff
Sleipnirs can of course active tank quite a bit, particularly with crystals (which most SISI pilots have, heh). With electrons (lol) and no heavy neut, ofc you're not going to break it.
However, Sleipnir for solo... well, it's like this. After MWD/web/scram and a cap booster you have a 1-slot tank. Most people for 'solo' sleipnirs will opt for a MWD/disruptor. Given now MWD is trivially disabled, I don't think Sleipnir is a good solo ship anymore, to be honest.
He wasn't using Crystals. And he was standing still (0 m/s -> 0 m/s transversal). My mate was using Large Shield Booster II, Invul II, anti-kin and therm rig. If he would be moving, even webbed, the Megathron wouldn't even remotely be able hit the Sleipnir. Sleipnir would just orbit around the Mega at closerange, killing it if its just plated.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.26 18:58:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 26/10/2008 18:59:30
Originally by: Femaref
He wasn't using Crystals. And he was standing still (0 m/s -> 0 m/s transversal). My mate was using Large Shield Booster II, Invul II, anti-kin and therm rig. If he would be moving, even webbed, the Megathron wouldn't even remotely be able hit the Sleipnir. Sleipnir would just orbit around the Mega at closerange, killing it if its just plated.
What?! A commandship that in certain situations can kill a BS heads up?! MADNESS! Nerf!
hmm Commandships:
-more training -less tank -less dps -cost more
compared to a BS and it can win?! How game breaking... ----------------------------------------- [Video] Tempest of Change |
Femaref
Armageddon Day
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Posted - 2008.10.26 19:28:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 26/10/2008 18:59:30
Originally by: Femaref
He wasn't using Crystals. And he was standing still (0 m/s -> 0 m/s transversal). My mate was using Large Shield Booster II, Invul II, anti-kin and therm rig. If he would be moving, even webbed, the Megathron wouldn't even remotely be able hit the Sleipnir. Sleipnir would just orbit around the Mega at closerange, killing it if its just plated.
What?! A commandship that in certain situations can kill a BS heads up?! MADNESS! Nerf!
hmm Commandships:
-more training -less tank -less dps -cost more
compared to a BS and it can win?! How game breaking...
no comment about that, you have no idea what I am talking about. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.26 19:32:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Femaref
no comment about that, you have no idea what I am talking about.
My point still stands. There is no problem in a CS beating a BS. |
Aya Vandenovich
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Posted - 2008.10.26 19:40:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Femaref
no comment about that, you have no idea what I am talking about.
My point still stands. There is no problem in a CS beating a BS.
It'll make more sense if this becomes common post-patch, as the price of T2 sub-BS ships might go up a fair bit.
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Lurana Lay
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.26 19:44:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Femaref
no comment about that, you have no idea what I am talking about.
My point still stands. There is no problem in a CS beating a BS.
Lyria, I bet the same damn thing would have happened if it had just been a regular Battlecruiser. And the fact that the target CS was STATIONARY, and at perfect range (haha, how often will that happen now?). In other words, why bother flying a BS?
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mamolian
Madhatters Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.26 19:55:00 -
[116]
Edited by: mamolian on 26/10/2008 19:56:37
Originally by: Musashibou Benkei The Orca seems to be the only beacon of light in all of this mayhem of hate and ******edness
Whats so great about the Orca..? A glorified hauler with gang mods and tractor beam bonus's ? Seriously.. after playing around on SISI for an hour or so.. Cant say I like a single thing about this upcomming patch.. Well ok.. there is one benifit I guess.. I now have a bunch of low slots spare.. But lack the cpu/powergrid to put anything worth while in em.. bar WCS -----------
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Femaref
Armageddon Day
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Posted - 2008.10.26 20:00:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Lurana Lay
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Femaref
no comment about that, you have no idea what I am talking about.
My point still stands. There is no problem in a CS beating a BS.
Lyria, I bet the same damn thing would have happened if it had just been a regular Battlecruiser. And the fact that the target CS was STATIONARY, and at perfect range (haha, how often will that happen now?). In other words, why bother flying a BS?
thanks.
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The Djego
Minmatar merovinger inc
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Posted - 2008.10.26 20:10:00 -
[118]
Fema donŠt take Lyria this serious, you might get trolled.
Also Branko is right, fitting a Mega with Electrons is quite a bit fail, Neutrons, 3 MFS + Heavy Neut if you realy want to break CS apart, itŠs like this on TQ to atm.
And tell your Corp Mate that a Sleip usaly fits a XL Booster instead just a large one. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.26 20:11:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Lurana Lay
Lyria, I bet the same damn thing would have happened if it had just been a regular Battlecruiser. And the fact that the target CS was STATIONARY, and at perfect range (haha, how often will that happen now?). In other words, why bother flying a BS?
Will BS still be flown after patch? Yes. Are you too emo? Yes. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Tempest of Change |
Aya Vandenovich
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Posted - 2008.10.26 20:12:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Lurana Lay
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Femaref
no comment about that, you have no idea what I am talking about.
My point still stands. There is no problem in a CS beating a BS.
Lyria, I bet the same damn thing would have happened if it had just been a regular Battlecruiser. And the fact that the target CS was STATIONARY, and at perfect range (haha, how often will that happen now?). In other words, why bother flying a BS?
Maybe I'm missing something, but if the CS was stationary, and the sig radius and tracking values haven't been altered on SISI. What makes this situation different than TQ?
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